account under investigation for multi ip usage ... need help

[LloydApter]

You are correct, I didn't really understand the question and yes, helping players is good PR. Ignoring player posts is also bad PR and not nice either.

Of course, things happen, they always do and if a player has an issue we need to genuinely try help, sort it out and find the root to the problem and sort that out too, if we can and if it is an internal issue and not a genuine concern for investigation.

Regarding the problem at hand - multiple IPs. We know about dynamic IPs and it is okay and normally no problem but in some cases like in this case there were some extreme and unexplained IP changes - w.r.t. both location and frequency. This activated a warning in our risk department and the account and payment were put on hold while it was investigated. That's what happened.

When we have totally unexplained IP changes it is our responsibility not only to the casino but also to the player to make sure that we are not dealing with ID theft, wallet theft or fraud. What happens if the players wallet details have been hacked? it is just as important for players that we don't release payments without full investigation when we see certain unusual behavior and not just with dynamic IPs.

With respect to the player in question, I am not at liberty to give details of what transpired here exactly and it is also not in any of our interests to provide potential fraudsters and hackers with too much information about how we prevent their activity either. All I can say is that this was a genuine case of unexplained IP changes, we investigated and only once we were sure that there was no real issue we released the payment.

Hope that makes sense to you. Thanks for your question.

It doesn't even address the question, it's just a bunch of PR.

Unless otherwise informed, I have to assume that your security team can't differentiate between a regular ISP using dynamic IP and VPN use. This is a rather dangerous situation for players as whilst this player had the right contacts to get a resolution, many others may not.

The world of the internet now RELIES on dynamic IP for consumer services, the static IP ideal is reserved for businesses, particularly those running servers. The reason is that the available IP addresses have run out, and dynamic IP has been implemented as a mid term fix until IPv6 can be generally implemented, which still seems to be some years away.

For anyone using an ISP that provides dynamic IP, they cannot rely on getting the same IP address two days in a row, and so the companies they do business with need to accept this, and deal with it, not cause the customer grief because they haven't understood how their particular ISP uses the system.

This should never have become the customer's problem in the first place, so having solved it only after strings were pulled is not really that good because not everybody can reach these strings.

 

[vinylweatherman]

You are correct, I didn't really understand the question and yes, helping players is good PR. Ignoring player posts is also bad PR and not nice either.

Of course, things happen, they always do and if a player has an issue we need to genuinely try help, sort it out and find the root to the problem and sort that out too, if we can and if it is an internal issue and not a genuine concern for investigation.

Regarding the problem at hand - multiple IPs. We know about dynamic IPs and it is okay and normally no problem but in some cases like in this case there were some extreme and unexplained IP changes - w.r.t. both location and frequency. This activated a warning in our risk department and the account and payment were put on hold while it was investigated. That's what happened.

When we have totally unexplained IP changes it is our responsibility not only to the casino but also to the player to make sure that we are not dealing with ID theft, wallet theft or fraud. What happens if the players wallet details have been hacked? it is just as important for players that we don't release payments without full investigation when we see certain unusual behavior and not just with dynamic IPs.

With respect to the player in question, I am not at liberty to give details of what transpired here exactly and it is also not in any of our interests to provide potential fraudsters and hackers with too much information about how we prevent their activity either. All I can say is that this was a genuine case of unexplained IP changes, we investigated and only once we were sure that there was no real issue we released the payment.

Hope that makes sense to you. Thanks for your question.

It makes some sense, but it's worrying for players as we are completely at the mercy of the ISPs when it comes to IP management, and ISPs do not manage IPs for the convenience of companies who like to "snoop" on their customers using a system that is not foolproof, nor intended to be. Whilst this case was resolved, there are other players who have been found guilty of "fraud" due to their own IP address changes, and they have not been so lucky. This case now calls their guilt into question as they too could be an innocent victim of a flaw in the way dynamic IPs are dealt with by fraud detection teams, whereas the range and frequency of their IP changes has seen them damned as users of VPN services as a mask to hide their fraudulent activities.

 

[LloydApter]

Thanks for your quick reply. Our risk department does not only look at radical and unusual IP changes and it isn't in our interest to use unusual IP changes as an excuse to not pay a player. These cases need to be investigated and that is what happened in this case. Nobody is accusing anyone, we respect our players and appreciate the business. We are just taking care of doing business properly and yes, it's a cat and mouse game where we want to protect ourselves and players against fraud without causing our players any unnecessary experiences or delays. It is a challenge.

It makes some sense, but it's worrying for players as we are completely at the mercy of the ISPs when it comes to IP management, and ISPs do not manage IPs for the convenience of companies who like to "snoop" on their customers using a system that is not foolproof, nor intended to be. Whilst this case was resolved, there are other players who have been found guilty of "fraud" due to their own IP address changes, and they have not been so lucky. This case now calls their guilt into question as they too could be an innocent victim of a flaw in the way dynamic IPs are dealt with by fraud detection teams, whereas the range and frequency of their IP changes has seen them damned as users of VPN services as a mask to hide their fraudulent activities.

 

[thatthing]

How is it possible to identify by the physical address of the machine? I have associate degree in computer studies and AFAIK if the user has a different dynamic IP and regularly clears the cache and cookies how does the online casino get to know the same machine?

As long as those IP addresses are not from locations that are banned like the USA then it should not be an issue.

I probably would not continue to play at a place that can't handle something as simple as multiple IP addresses. Especially if they are from the same computer ( which they can identify by the physical address of the machine) they are probably even within the same default gateway range.

 

[dunover]

How is it possible to identify by the physical address of the machine? I have associate degree in computer studies and AFAIK if the user has a different dynamic IP and regularly clears the cache and cookies how does the online casino get to know the same machine?

Well you should know each machine has a MAC code/address. If this is the same and the IP changes dramatically then it will flag suspicion.

 

[Googobucs]

How is it possible to identify by the physical address of the machine? I have associate degree in computer studies and AFAIK if the user has a different dynamic IP and regularly clears the cache and cookies how does the online casino get to know the same machine?

By physical address I am talking about the MAC address not the street, city country address of the machine.

Once you know the IP or URL it's easy to find the physical address. Do a ping. when the ping is finished type arp -a ( space between the p and -)
This will return the physical address of the machine with that IP.

try it out. ping google.com then arp -a
You will get the physical address of several google servers.

 

[thatthing]

It may be possible to know the MAC of the servers but to get to know the MAC of the user it may not be possible

Look at these links most of them say it is not possible

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/64330/

By physical address I am talking about the MAC address not the street, city country address of the machine.

Once you know the IP or URL it's easy to find the physical address. Do a ping. when the ping is finished type arp -a ( space between the p and -)
This will return the physical address of the machine with that IP.

try it out. ping google.com then arp -a
You will get the physical address of several google servers.