Bitch and Moan Account restricted

gregg2012

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
coventry
hello
this is my first post here I am after some advice.

I apparently self excluded myself from a well known bookmaker in January 2010 for two years which expires jan 2012. To be honest I cant really remember doing this but at the time i was losing a lot of money on touch screen roulette and excluded myself from the local shops in my area.

fast forward to july 2011. I opened up an online casino account with one of the well known bookmakers and deposited £600. After play roulette I turned it into 8k. When I went to cash out they restricted my account whilst they look into it. I am obvoiously very worried that I am not going to get paid. I did not pull the wool over anybodys eyes and I did not open a new account at a different address all the details were the same. I did not take a bonus as I am not a new customer. I have a feeling that they are going to try and shaft me by saying i cant gamble there and refund my original deposit. The way i see it i didnt know i was self excuded or i would have just signed up to another casino. I have also lost thousands in their shops in the last year and if they are going to do this then surely i am entitled to all the money back i have lost in that time. I also feel if they go down this road it will open the door for everyone who has every lost any money and is self excluded to get it back. At the moment it is being dealt with by their internal team and I am waiting for an answer. Anybody else had a similar experience and if so what was the outcome. The way i say it is they took the bet and only when i went to cash out they said oh we think your self excluded. If I had lost my £600 the rung up the next day and said i believe i was self excluded i want my money back they would have told me where to go. The casino is on the accredited list.
 

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
Have you tried contacting the rep here? That is one of the first steps to take. If you have and it was unsuccessful in your eyes, you may want to contact maxd and see if you have a case for a PAB. If you do have a case for a PAB you will need to read the rules and stop posting.
This link is to the first part of the PAB process...
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
hello
this is my first post here I am after some advice.

I apparently self excluded myself from a well known bookmaker in January 2010 for two years which expires jan 2012. To be honest I cant really remember doing this but at the time i was losing a lot of money on touch screen roulette and excluded myself from the local shops in my area.

fast forward to july 2011. I opened up an online casino account with one of the well known bookmakers and deposited £600. After play roulette I turned it into 8k. When I went to cash out they restricted my account whilst they look into it. I am obvoiously very worried that I am not going to get paid. I did not pull the wool over anybodys eyes and I did not open a new account at a different address all the details were the same. I did not take a bonus as I am not a new customer. I have a feeling that they are going to try and shaft me by saying i cant gamble there and refund my original deposit. The way i see it i didnt know i was self excuded or i would have just signed up to another casino. I have also lost thousands in their shops in the last year and if they are going to do this then surely i am entitled to all the money back i have lost in that time. I also feel if they go down this road it will open the door for everyone who has every lost any money and is self excluded to get it back. At the moment it is being dealt with by their internal team and I am waiting for an answer. Anybody else had a similar experience and if so what was the outcome. The way i say it is they took the bet and only when i went to cash out they said oh we think your self excluded. If I had lost my £600 the rung up the next day and said i believe i was self excluded i want my money back they would have told me where to go. The casino is on the accredited list.

I apparently self excluded myself from a well known bookmaker in January 2010 for two years which expires jan 2012.

so if you have been self excluded why did they let you open a account then ? also you dont remember asking for excluding period , sorry im finding that hard to believe , anyway they should pay you out then close your account those are winnings regardless to wether your banned or not they should of checked on this , with a outright ban across there shops & online accounts , doesnt matter wether its back in 2010 , as far as im concerned this should be a minium of 5year ban outright no if buts or whys , because casinos scam & do take the pi$$ out of players who keep spending & losing vast ammounts ( not all of them ) but a fair few even the big ones, i do hope you get paid the full ammount but they may well use this agaisnt you i hope not or you shall have a big fight on your hands to what is right & what is wrong.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
hello
this is my first post here I am after some advice.

I apparently self excluded myself from a well known bookmaker in January 2010 for two years which expires jan 2012. To be honest I cant really remember doing this but at the time i was losing a lot of money on touch screen roulette and excluded myself from the local shops in my area.

fast forward to july 2011. I opened up an online casino account with one of the well known bookmakers and deposited £600. After play roulette I turned it into 8k. When I went to cash out they restricted my account whilst they look into it. I am obvoiously very worried that I am not going to get paid. I did not pull the wool over anybodys eyes and I did not open a new account at a different address all the details were the same. I did not take a bonus as I am not a new customer. I have a feeling that they are going to try and shaft me by saying i cant gamble there and refund my original deposit. The way i see it i didnt know i was self excuded or i would have just signed up to another casino. I have also lost thousands in their shops in the last year and if they are going to do this then surely i am entitled to all the money back i have lost in that time. I also feel if they go down this road it will open the door for everyone who has every lost any money and is self excluded to get it back. At the moment it is being dealt with by their internal team and I am waiting for an answer. Anybody else had a similar experience and if so what was the outcome. The way i say it is they took the bet and only when i went to cash out they said oh we think your self excluded. If I had lost my £600 the rung up the next day and said i believe i was self excluded i want my money back they would have told me where to go. The casino is on the accredited list.

Under self exclusion rules, they should have blocked the account immediately based on your details having remained the same as when you self excluded at the bookmakers.

Self exclusion does not work all that well at the other shops, since bets can be placed without registering your details, and unless your photo has been circulated, staff have no way to tell.

Online, it is a different matter, as the industry has a self exclusion database, and this should be checked against the details of any new player registering for an online product.

You may have signed the original exclusion order in the "heat of the moment" after a losing streak, but this is a SERIOUS legal document, and would REQUIRE operators with links to UK land operators to do their best to enforce it.

You should ask for a copy of the original exclusion order since you don't remember signing it, and then seek legal advice if they say they are not going to pay the winnings, and are also not going to refund any of your losses.

You should be able to retrieve these losses if you can prove that they failed to check properly whether you were subject to an exclusion when they carried on taking your bets, and only noticed this detail when you came to have a big win, which is really only a return of some of your earlier losses.

You should also stay away from gambling until February 2012, when your self exclusion lapses.

Exclusion orders are designed to be easy to enter into, and near impossible to get out of. This is a feature meant to protect those that lack the willpower not to be tempteed back, and recognises the fact that gamblers often want such protection "in the heat of the moment" after suffering a loss, but know that temptation will get the better of them later on, and they will try to "chase" that loss, which could lead to an even worse problem.

Players HAVE sued the UK bookmakers for refunds of losses on the grounds that they "should have known" the player had a gambling problem at the time. It would be a case of proving this aspect of "should have known", and that negligence in internal procedure allowed bets from a player on the self exclusion database to be taken.

Not all such cases have gone in favour of the player, and if the operator can show there is no way they could have known, whatever checks were made, they will not be liable.


Since this operator DID check when you submitted the withdrawal, they cannot claim there is no way they could have known that you were self excluded, and thus you could argue that they were negligent in only carrying out these checks when players WIN, rather than when they open the account and make the first deposit.

Although you could represent yourself, a lawyer is worth the money given the size of this claim. Many offer an initial free consultation, so that you can at least get some idea as to whether it is worth pursuing this route, and also whether you have chosen the right lawyer, one with some experience in what is currently a "niche" product in terms of litigation.
Perhaps ask for lawyers with experience of "action against internet based businesses".
 

gregg2012

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
coventry
some good advice thanks. I feel like i say if they dont pay me and offer to return my original deposit then it will open up the door for everyone who has ever lost money whilst self excluded to get it back. For example a person who is self excluded can open an account and if he wins then the withdrawel may go through however if he loses then he is safe in the knowledge that he can claim every penny back he has lost. If this happened and once it became national news which it would my 8k would end up costing them millions. I cant see them going down this road. I see two things happening. 1 - account closed and full balance of 8k back to me or 2 - account closed wasnt supposed to open an account so original deposit back and once court action threatened I would eventually get paid. Anyone else agree with what I am saying?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
some good advice thanks. I feel like i say if they dont pay me and offer to return my original deposit then it will open up the door for everyone who has ever lost money whilst self excluded to get it back. For example a person who is self excluded can open an account and if he wins then the withdrawel may go through however if he loses then he is safe in the knowledge that he can claim every penny back he has lost. If this happened and once it became national news which it would my 8k would end up costing them millions. I cant see them going down this road. I see two things happening. 1 - account closed and full balance of 8k back to me or 2 - account closed wasnt supposed to open an account so original deposit back and once court action threatened I would eventually get paid. Anyone else agree with what I am saying?

Maybe not that simple. Even if they pay the 8K, or refund that particular deposit, there is STILL scope for abuse in the way you think. It will still rest on whether you can show that they were negligent in checking your initial registration against the self exclusion list, and that had they done the checks properly, you would not have been able to deposit, let alone win. They will have to show that they did this check as soon as they had the information from you necessary to do so. This in part will rest on the wording of what operators are expected to do, and when, in regards to protecting "problem gamblers" under the self exclusion system.

If they only check when a player WINS, they too are "abusing the system" by making gambling "no risk" in the same way, where they get to keep all losing bets, yet can argue that they cannot be liable to pay out on any winning bets. This "abuse" is no different to a player making a bet, and when it loses trying to get a refund by claiming they are self excluded, yet NOT mentioning this when the bet wins.
 

gregg2012

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
coventry
i have just phoned them again to see what is happening but they say i have to wait 48 hours for a decision. Surely they cannot void my winnings and just refund my original deposit. I know you are not mind readers but im going out my mind with worry here. I am hoping they say you are self excluded therefore we have to close your account and heres your 8k but i have a feeling they will try and shaft me. Opions anyone?
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
i have just phoned them again to see what is happening but they say i have to wait 48 hours for a decision. Surely they cannot void my winnings and just refund my original deposit. I know you are not mind readers but im going out my mind with worry here. I am hoping they say you are self excluded therefore we have to close your account and heres your 8k but i have a feeling they will try and shaft me. Opions anyone?

you shall just to wait & see , but believe me i had a problem nearly like yours & did not get a full refund on it & that was from one big casino aswell , though i could of taken them to court still could if i wanted too , so i do hope yyou dont get into that side of things.
 

gregg2012

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
coventry
when you say you had a similar problem did you not get paid in full then. also if i disagree with their decision what is the next step. PAB or IBAS. Thanks in advance
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
when you say you had a similar problem did you not get paid in full then. also if i disagree with their decision what is the next step. PAB or IBAS. Thanks in advance

no i did not get a full refund of £3670 but thats another story , you realy shouldnt panic or worry just wait until youve got the facts before you start thinking about whats next , just keep calm & wait , then you can come back on here once youve had the news maybe they shall just pay out , then problem solved just keep your cool ! ;)
 

gregg2012

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
coventry
like you say i will have to wait and see. Hopefully they will do the right thing but the way i am thinking all this investigation on their part is to see if they can get away with just refunding my deposit.
I have to ask myself if i had lost 8k would they then have rung me up the next day and said according to our records you are self excluded and therfore we are going to refund your money. I think we all know the answer to that. The only thing in my favour I am dealing with a highly respected uk bookmaker perhaps even no 1 in the uk.
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
which bookmaker coral or bet365 or tote or bet fred ? these are our uk top bookies & ladbrokes ofcourse
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
there pretty honest mainly , you should get a payout from them with maybe a account bar , im taking there are no bonus issues with those funds deposited & played ?
 

gregg2012

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
coventry
there pretty honest mainly , you should get a payout from them with maybe a account bar , im taking there are no bonus issues with those funds deposited & played ?

thats correct there is no bonus issues i just deposited and played. I only opened a account because it appealed to me that i could collect money from a shop within 24 hours. I know some people might not believe that i cant remember self excluding but its the truth. Why would i open an account and gamble with a bookies that I am self excluded with when there are hundreds to choose from online. I am hoping ladbrokes will do the right thing as the only consilation I have is that I cant find one example of where ladbrokes havent payed up.
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
thats correct there is no bonus issues i just deposited and played. I only opened a account because it appealed to me that i could collect money from a shop within 24 hours. I know some people might not believe that i cant remember self excluding but its the truth. Why would i open an account and gamble with a bookies that I am self excluded with when there are hundreds to choose from online. I am hoping ladbrokes will do the right thing as the only consilation I have is that I cant find one example of where ladbrokes havent payed up.

its slightly different online anyway did you have a internet account before with ladbrokes online? if not i wouldnt of thought you would have any problems but what was you thinking about a online deposit & collecting at a shop ??:rolleyes: maybe you should have sent these funds back to your card unless you made a deposit via u kash ?
 

gregg2012

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
coventry
i deposited using my credit card as the amount I won was more than my balance on card I was not able to transfer back onto my card. I have searched forum after forum and cannot find a case like mine nor a case where ladbrokes have witheld money. I am hoping they do the right thing the feedback I am getting off people is regardless of whether I won or lost, the money that is currently in my ladbrokes account should be returned to me in full and my account closed with no further accounts to be opened until jan 2012. I cant see them trying or getting away with saying you shouldnt have opened a account so heres your original deposit back it would cause them more problems than its worth. What do you think?
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
i deposited using my credit card as the amount I won was more than my balance on card I was not able to transfer back onto my card. I have searched forum after forum and cannot find a case like mine nor a case where ladbrokes have witheld money. I am hoping they do the right thing the feedback I am getting off people is regardless of whether I won or lost, the money that is currently in my ladbrokes account should be returned to me in full and my account closed with no further accounts to be opened until jan 2012. I cant see them trying or getting away with saying you shouldnt have opened a account so heres your original deposit back it would cause them more problems than its worth. What do you think?

yes im understanding that this is in ladbrokes shops which is ok , im talking about online casino account at ladbrokes have you ever had a online casino account at ladbrokes before that you have closed down due to gambling ? if you have not i doubt very much there will be any problems , but if you have had a account at ladbrokes before this new account your going to run into loads of problems if this makes sense ?
 

gregg2012

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
coventry
yes im understanding that this is in ladbrokes shops which is ok , im talking about online casino account at ladbrokes have you ever had a online casino account at ladbrokes before that you have closed down due to gambling ? if you have not i doubt very much there will be any problems , but if you have had a account at ladbrokes before this new account your going to run into loads of problems if this makes sense ?

no i have not had a online ladbrokes account i have closed down due to self exclusion. If self exclusion exists I would have done it in the shop and been told to list the shops i wish to be excluded from. I cant remember ever doing it.
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
no i have not had a online ladbrokes account i have closed down due to self exclusion. If self exclusion exists I would have done it in the shop and been told to list the shops i wish to be excluded from. I cant remember ever doing it.


your first post? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did not take a bonus as I am not a new customer ??? thats the bit i dont understand your not a new customer , but your telling me this is your first online account with ladbrokes ? if you was a new customer you can claim there free chips on first deposit . why right im not a new customer if you indeed havnt had a account before ? doesnt make any sense

if your telling me all the correct info regarding ladbrokes online account then i doubt very much that you wont be paid your moneys . can you not have those funds sent to your bank account or debit card instead of going into a shop to get 8k in cash ? think that would be a better path for you tbh ) doesnt sound like youve done anything wrong online , which is good for you , just wait it out then , i cant understand why your account has been flagged for exclusion though on a online casino , doesnt make sense at all , considering shops are different.
 
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