Absolute Poker Not Paid My Winnings On Blackjack

superchip

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Location
UK
Hi Guys,

Opened an account at AP on the 5th Oct and deposited $750, got a bonus of $750 and needed to wager $75000 on blackjack before I was allowed to withdraw.

On the 8th Oct received an email saying "our security system suspended your Absolute Poker account because it detected an abnormal deposit pattern, please provide us with ID".

So I send in my passport, front and back of credit card used, utility bill showing my address and an agreement form for the credit card". On the 9th receive an email back saying "thanks your account is now back open and sorry for the inconvenience".

So I continue playing blackjack and on the 13th completed the $75000 requirements, at that point my balance was $1840 and I requested a withdrawal via moneybookers.

After 4 days hadn't received the money so tried to log into AP to see the status but it wouldn't let me in, so I rang CS and was told my account had been closed and all money was seized (including my deposit), apparently the reason being that the card processors had told them I was risky in some way. This is nonsense they just don't want to pay my winnings.

I have now received my deposit back onto my credit card after contacting Natwest although I am about 25 down because of the exchange fees but they flat refuse to pay my winnings accusing me of fraudulent activity.

I have PAB but as yet haven't had a reply but I know there is a big issue with AP on the poker side and Bryan is no doubt busy helping with that.

Only wished I'd spotted the poker threads before I deposited but would appreciate any help from you guys.
 

c_note

Full Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Location
divide by zero
Out of Luck

I have now received my deposit back onto my credit card after contacting Natwest although I am about 25 down because of the exchange fees but they flat refuse to pay my winnings accusing me of fraudulent activity.

Since you have charged back (getting your bank to get your money back for you), you will have no further recourse to your funds. AP will refuse to deal with you at all on this matter as they will consider your actions fraudulent.
 

superchip

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Location
UK
Since you have charged back (getting your bank to get your money back for you), you will have no further recourse to your funds. AP will refuse to deal with you at all on this matter as they will consider your actions fraudulent.

I don't hold much hope in getting the winnings anyyway given they are now fully rogued, contacting my credit card issuer and letting them investigate was the only thing I could do given AP said they were keeping my winnings plus deposit.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Don't underestimate the rogueness of their action. AP say it was YOU CARD ISSUER that branded you a fraud, and this is LIBEL against NatWest if it proves to be untrue. Also, if true, NatWest have commited LIBEL against you by telling AP you have committed transaction fraud, and although you may find it hard to pursue AP, NatWest can be taken to task and forced to explain what their part is in all this. the FSA may require NatWest to compensate you for the consequent damage of falsely representing you to AP as a fraud unless they can show that you are indeed one (that is show to UK law standards of proof, not AP standards).

Considering how LONG AP allowed a huge potential fraud to run involving hundreds of thousands of dollars, it seems odd that they were so "trigger happy" over a $750 deposit with some inconsistencies. This really looks like the big poker fraud was ALLOWED to continue, not that AP knew nothing was in the slightest bit suspect happening at the time as they would like us to believe.

AP will probably go bust over this.

Since your deposit was in October, and the new UK Gambling act came into force on the 1st September, you might like to know that there is no longer provision for gambling related debts to be considered "unenforceable", and you might be able to use the consumer credit act on NatWest to get EVERYTHING back - you will need some legal advice, maybe some internet research to formulate a case for the FSA to consider. Put it to NatWest first, as to complain to the FSA requires you to have exhausted all avenues with the card issuer and the merchant.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
Don't underestimate the rogueness of their action. AP say it was YOU CARD ISSUER that branded you a fraud, and this is LIBEL against NatWest if it proves to be untrue.
He wrote card processor, not card issuer. A different beast altogether. No chance of collecting large libel settlement from NatWest.
 

YodaJedi

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Location
Melbourne
After the cheating that went on with Absolute poker I don't know that I'd trust their blackjack game to begin with! In any case I wouldnt want to give them any money after the blow they've delivered to online poker.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
He wrote card processor, not card issuer. A different beast altogether. No chance of collecting large libel settlement from NatWest.

It'll be the processor that gets sued then. However, it is STILL the responsibility of the card ISSUER if the end merchant acted against the terms of the contract. It may be possible to make an "adverse merchant report" to the card "brand", either VISA International or Mastercard. I once contacted VISA international because I thought Winward were pulling a stunt in asking for my 3 digit security code, and they asked me whether I wanted to make an adverse merchant report. I was told that if they receive enough of these, they ban the merchant or processor from accepting their brands of cards.
This almost never happens, because they don't make it well known this possibility exists, and many customers are happy to pursue the card issuer for a refund.

A complaint to the UK Gaming Commission might help, as Kawanake are seeking addition to the Whitelist, and allowing their licensees to pull stunts as AP have done is not going to go well for them. This may also be why they have been so seemingly active in their desite to pursue an investigation.

If the processor thought you were a risk, your initial deposit should have been declined and AP told to lock your account. This looks like you are only a risk after you managed to win on what some seem to think is a rigged Blackjack game.

The case may be weakened if the OP has indeed made a chargeback from another casino or poker room for frivolous reasons, such as a bad run; however, making a chargeback through a firm breaching it's contract or going bust is NOT wrong, it is one of our CONSUMER RIGHTS, protection in law against the activities of rogue businesses.
 

bernynhel

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Los Angeles
Can't help you but if it's any consolation, Ive played a lot of BJ at AP while in poker games there and, I gotta tell ya, anyone who can come away from THAT BJ table with anything at all is a winner in my book. :thumbsup: It figures that they don't want to pay. They probably fainted from shock when they saw you're withdrawal request. Probably trying to figure out what you did to their BJ table! And probably more than a little embarrassed at the possibility that someone could have out cheated them! :notworthy
 

superchip

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Location
UK
Thanks guys for all the responses.

I spoke to Natwest again yesterday and was told the $750 that was put back onto my card came from AP themselves and was not in fact to do with Natwest, basically when I first spoke to AP about why they locked my account and seized all funds in it I was told they were keeping my deposit also.

I then contacted Natwest who advised me to send in a letter and they would help, having spoken to Natwest yesterday they haven't even got round to helping with the dispute so guess no chargback needed. When I first spotted the $750 back in my account I just assumed it was a chargeback from Natwest.

I have also never done a chargeback against any casino/bookie as I always use a debit card whenever I deposit, with AP I used my credit card in case I had any problems.

Will speak to Natwest again today to see if they can be any help in getting the $1090 winnings.
 

noluckever67

Non-Gambler
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Location
uk
"I have also never done a chargeback against any casino/bookie as I always use a debit card whenever I deposit, with AP I used my credit card in case I had any problems."


^^^ Aint that a bit like
playing with fire though realising you might have a problem at a site and using a credit card thinking even before you deposit you might need to chargeback????? sounds a bit dodgy to me like.
 

superchip

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Location
UK
^^^ Aint that a bit like
playing with fire though realising you might have a problem at a site and using a credit card thinking even before you deposit you might need to chargeback????? sounds a bit dodgy to me like.

Yes, I had read on another forum before I deposited that this place had refused to pay someone in the past but others were saying they had no problems. So I decided to cover my own back and use my credit card. I am glad I did as the first initial response I got from AP was they were keeping my deposit also, maybe then when they realised I deposited with a credit card (and I had rights) they decided to return the deposit.

I can't think of why that would sound dodgy to you.

Just spoke to Natwest again and as far as they are concerned the matter is now closed as I got my deposit back and that's all they're interested in. Have sent emails to Visa, UK gambling Commision and kahnawake Commission so will see what responses I get.
 

noluckever67

Non-Gambler
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Location
uk
All i meant was

WHY on earth deposit at a site that not only is under severe scrutiny for cheating and think to use a cc before depositing why deposit at AP??? this is what i cant fathom out :confused:
 

superchip

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Location
UK
Maybe if you'd read my first post you wouldn't need to ask, I quote myself "Only wished I'd spotted the poker threads before I deposited".

I am not stupid, if I had known about the poker problems then I wouldn't have even depsoited here. Hope that's enough of an explanation for you now...
 

noluckever67

Non-Gambler
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Location
uk
confused

Maybe if you'd read my first post you wouldn't need to ask, I quote myself "Only wished I'd spotted the poker threads before I deposited".

I am not stupid, if I had known about the poker problems then I wouldn't have even depsoited here. Hope that's enough of an explanation for you now...

Sorry your contradicting yourself here..you explained that you used a credit card at AP INCASE you had any problems why would you just do this at AP if you had never read any of the problems at the site??

your words not mine:confused:
 

superchip

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Location
UK
why would you just do this at AP if you had never read any of the problems at the site??

your words not mine:confused:

Post Number 14:

superchip said:
I had read on another forum before I deposited that this place had refused to pay someone in the past but others were saying they had no problems.

How am I contradicting myself then.

Anyway I came here asking for help and others have posted helpful comments, you've been a massive help also but I can't be bothered to respond to your posts now. Cheers for the input though. :confused:
 

aodat2

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Location
Malaysia
No matter what the problem is over here, I have something to add to this actually.

1. How come most people will say that AP has the right to do this and that, even to the point of seizing all your winnings and etc?

2. When it comes to things like that, since they accepted your deposit and even your ID and reopened the OP's account, why do they have the right to even seize anything?

3. When someone makes a chargeback to a CASINO/SPORTSBOOK, they are considered a Fraudster and etc. But when a casino/sportsbook seize everything, including your deposit and winnings, all you could do is just sit there and be an idiot else you will be branded a fraudster. Where in the world is the justice in this?

4. They have taken your bet and accepted it. If this was in Vegas, they will still be obligated to pay the winnings and then kick you out the door. They accepted a bet and after you winning, they refuse to pay which makes them 100% @zzhole in my book!

No matter what the AP says, it still comes down to the fact that they locked his account and requested additional docs. After getting it, they reopened his account and after he wins, they tell him that he's a fraudster. Are they hoping for him to lose or do they just not want to pay? Either way, I don't see AP doing anything right at all.

File complains and etc with the relevant authorities and don't forget to always follow-up on your complain else it might be thought that you've gotten the thing resolved.

Good Luck!
 
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