Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged).

Casinomeister

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Calling me a shill is not the way to get an answer.
Agreed. There is no cause for personal attacks. GPF's comments on this subject are non-biased in my opinion.
 

GaryWatson

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Jun 15, 2007
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Calling me a shill is not the way to get an answer.
Im past caring who is a shill and who isnt. Im bored with the entire AP saga. I want genuine results. I wish someone like pokeraddict would offer an independent review. He is probably the most knowlegable poker person I know on this site & was the first person i know to point to AP's indescresions
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
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OK...

Maybe I was a bit quick to call you a shill.

FYI - I am not currently in the market for a bridge.

My question still stands.

Who do you think owns AP?
 

jetset

RIP Brian
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Jetset, has anything as yet come of the 8th December deadline on the official audit/report. I've read back a fair bit here to my last post and there is still no reposnse at all from AP or the people doing the report's???..

Give it another 2 months and it will all be water under the bridge.
people will forget about the 7 figures they blatantly stole and operations will continue as normal..
Forgive the slow reply - I've been totally Internet hamstrung for the past 36 hours thanks to technical problems at my ISP.

To belatedly answer your question - no, nothing further either official or unofficial has reached me on the AP scandal.

I think Kellyblend is right - we've only just emerged from the festive season and all the dislocations and delays that this can entail.

I would be personally frustrated if nothing has emerged by the beginning of next week, and that would tend to raise questions about the integrity of AP, the Mohawks and Gaming Associates for me.
 

Self Made

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Aug 7, 2004
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My question still stands.

Who do you think owns AP?
As I said in my previous post:

No one actually believes Kahnawake or some Indian chief up their owns Absolute. It's just a front for the real owners, presumably mostly Scott Tom.
Scott Tom is the founder of Absolute, and primary shareholder. I've never heard anything to suggest he sold out. He had been seen in the Absolute offices regularly until fairly recently, and was there at the closing when they bought UltimateBet.

Joe Norton, on the other hand (it was he, not Kahnawake, that
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to own Absolute), has never had a connection to Absolute as far as I know. There's never been a report of Absolute being sold or him buying it. And where would he get the money? There's nothing in his background that suggest he could come up with that kind of money. Based on their relative player volumes and Party Gaming's market price, Absolute/UB would be worth about $1.2 billion (though private companies change hands at lower multiples than public ones trade at). I don't believe that you could keep a transaction of that size quiet, that Joe Norton could come up with that kind of money, or that it happened at all.

I think that Norton's announcement is just what most knowledgeable observers believed it to be: a laughably-sloppy lie concocted to convince people that Tom didn't own Absolute any more. As an American in the online gambling industry he certainly has reason to conceal his involvement (legal risk). He may also have other reasons to conceal his ownership, e.g. he's reported to have frozen out the minority investors and there's been other negative speculation about him.

You can find what people with greater knowledge of the situation (e.g. Nat Arem, people working in the industry in Costa Rica) have written on the various 2+2 threads, among other places. Searching in Google I found
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, which seems to have some relevant material.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
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IMO that is a good and likely summation of the ownership question, although I think the "ownership" may be more a case of cunning company reshuffling and registrations in diverse localities backed by discreet agreements rather than outright purchase, enabling Norton to become the front man but the ownership to remain in reality unchanged.

Unfortunately it is unlikely that such machinations will be exposed or substantiated if done cleverly enough.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
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Like much of this Absolute Poker cheating saga, who is in actual control of AP is very clouded.

But, on paper Absolute Poker is owned by Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG and Joe Norton (former chief of the Mohawks) has stated he is the sole 100% owner of Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG.

No way to verify this as Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG is a sole proprietorship company and is not subject to outside audits, nor is it required to release any information.

The information about Joe Norton owning Absolute Poker came from Absolute Poker and Joe Norton.

I don't personally believe that Tom Scott is involved in day to day operations of Absolute Poker, but he very well could be one of the guys making management decisions.
 

jetset

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QUOTE:
I have been invited to be a guest on Lou Kriegers Keep Flopping Aces radio show tomorrow to discuss the Absolute Poker Scandal. After having written a series of columns on the subject for Poker Player Newspaper, Lou seems to think I know what Im taking about.

For the entire hour, well discuss the scandal, specifically the fact that Absolute Poker hasnt mentioned it in months and the Kahnawake Gaming Commission has yet to release its final audit report (though it was promised weeks ago).

The show just moved from Holdem Radio to Rounders Radio and will be live starting at 6pm PST (9pm EST). UNQUOTE
 

pokeraddict

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Im past caring who is a shill and who isnt. Im bored with the entire AP saga. I want genuine results. I wish someone like pokeraddict would offer an independent review. He is probably the most knowlegable poker person I know on this site & was the first person i know to point to AP's indescresions
Nat went down there but I don't feel he was able to see all he needed to see, especially the user363 account and how it was abused.

Also some serious and seemingly credible reports have some out that there have been some odd runs on UB around the time the other story broke. The accusers are still gather evidence.

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The oddest part is how this user doesn't exist anymore. It was simply deleted.
 

lots0

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jetset - I guess I am not very fast today, but I could not find your interview at the link you provided.
 

jetset

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Don't know what's happening then, Lots0 - I've just double checked and it's right there on that page - click on the start arrowhead and it takes you straight into the pokertube interview with Field.
 

mussy

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Jun 19, 2003
Kahnawake report out

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- go to News, then 'KGC completes investigation...', then download the pdf.

I warn you, it's disappointing. Lacking in detail, and not giving access to the actual audit.
 

Mousey

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Sep 12, 2004
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Thank you Mussy.

I suggest everyone interested read it, it won't take very long at all.

I am not impressed. :(

Throughout all of this, I still have seen nothing from AP about anyone filing criminal charges against the individuals who did this.
 

mussy

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Jun 19, 2003
The one interesting part is item 2, the deletion of game records and logs. But the detail isn't there to see how extensive this was. And it's hard to tell whether they are saying that the absence of earlier HH than a few months back was deliberate (as seems likely to me) or whether they are talking about something else.

What is needed is access to the actual audit, not a second hand report on it.
 

lots0

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The "report" is a "White Wash".

Simple admission and move on strategy by Absolute.

Don't admit anything other than the cheating occurred. (they already did admit the cheating occurred once so it would be truly unbelievable to go back and try to say it did not happen...)

No names, no details, no charges filed.... Nothing.

These folks at Absolute Poker and KGC must have been taking lessons from American Politicos in how to get the public to over look the fact they are a bunch of scum bags...

Only stupid people or greedy affiliates will be satisfied with this non-report.
 

KellyBlend

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This was a limited scope audit and the result of this audit is the insight that the "impugned activities" - as far as alleged and already proven - occurred. I think the KGC will never publish the wording of the audit report.

We have only a view new insights. The most important one is that subsequent to the impugned activities having taken place, person(s) associated with APs operations deleted certain gaming logs and records which had the effect of hampering the Commission's investigation . but this obstacle did not effect the limited scope of the audit.

Whatever this means, the result is that nobody can prove any further wrongdoing and all parties involved saved their face. Business must go on. And we do also not know anything about the software the cheaters used to view the hole cards.
 

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