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Question about TRTP and number of spins

Discussion in 'Slots Discussion' started by orion, Nov 19, 2016.

    Nov 19, 2016
  1. orion

    orion Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    wine. We make it.
    deep south of Eu
    This is not a complaint post.

    I am simply sharing my experience with other members who -I am sure- can help me with this case, here there are some members who have way a long experience about slots, variance and hot/cold streaks.

    I am not going to mention neighter the casino, nor the slot, since it is not important. Numbers are numbers, objectively.

    The slot I am talking about has a TRTP of 96%. This is declared in the info-page about this game on the casino itself, and also on other casinos which are offering the same game.

    I have been playing quite a bit on this slot always on the same casino, and -session after session- my actual numbers are:
    spins done: over 50,000
    rtp: 66%

    Please note these numbers are given by the casino itself, still I have the chat /mail in which those (bad) numbers are mentioned.

    Now, 50K spins is much ? is nothing ? is somewhere in the middle between much and nothing ? I don't know. This is what I am asking here.

    I know that this slot provider is stating its TRTP on 10M spins range, so that 50K seems to be quite poor as a sample, but anyway I reached the point where I am wondering if anything is wrong.

    And btw, the casino so far gave me NOTHING as comp. It was not a must, but I have to admit I feel disappointed.

    thoughts ?
    thanks in advance to whom will send some re-assuring words to a player who is having some real perplexities.
  2. Nov 19, 2016
  3. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Self- Employeed
    Cannot reassure I am afraid but can sympathise as I am in the same situation and have been for a while now.

    I will mention the slots in question (although play is across numerous casinos which I won't mention names)

    Years and zillions of spins of experience and these games (my regular 'go to' main choices) have been playing shit and nowhere near the 'usual average' I come to expect and WITNESSED over many, many sessions.

    Thunderstruck (original) - So hard to trigger FS, when it was virtually impossible to have a session where the feature DIDN'T come a few times. When FS does finally come 30x at best!

    Egg O Matic - Sure they've changed the TRTP into MINUS figures last few months, IF and I mean IF you get a bonus feature, spot the wild, big time.

    Creature FT Black Lagoon - Again no screen of wilds anymore, No FS, No unlocking of the 3rd (triple) wild

    These are just a few quick examples.

    I am CONVINCED they've been 'tampered' with or my personal accounts recognise my 5 years running profit and are making amend. These thoughts however are for another time and another place....
  4. Nov 19, 2016
  5. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    International Money Launderer
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    The slot name IS important here - it is unusual to deviate so far from the TRTP over 50k spins unless the slot is very high in variance.

    I have had two stand-out incidences of exceptionally bad RTP - Thunderstruck 2 when I used to play at 32red and presently Raging Rhino at Sky Vegas which is like a drain for winnings from other games, whereas I have had reasonable time on it at every other casino I played it at.

    I agree it does make you question things when you seem stuck in a rut on a slot then begin to view it negatively and become pessimistic and pissed-off.
  6. Nov 19, 2016
  7. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    A bit of this and that
    Regulators check TRTP with millions of spins. 50.000 spins can be 1% of that or less. High variance slots can have 100 times longer dead periods than the low variance slots. The way you play also matters. It is quite common to meet a dead period in your play. If you stop when you are winning your numbers will be good. If you fight your way through the dead period every single time in a high variance slot, it is easy to have 60% RTP over 50.000 spins. I would try another slot, another playing pattern and another casino, if you are not happy with the overall experience there.
  8. Nov 19, 2016
  9. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG

    Sometimes I ask because it can be interesting to see if I'm up or down either on a specific slot or in a certain casino.
    But since I know though that what they give back is not a return to a specific player but to players then it doesn't really matter.

    For one to be up someone else have to be down, and if casinos would start to give out comp to everyone that are down then they will go broke very fast;)
  10. Nov 19, 2016
  11. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    " TRTP of 96%."

    "my actual numbers are:
    spins done: over 50,000
    rtp: 66%"

    Some slots take around 50 million spins* to hit the top prize and you won't see the RTP until you make that many spins.
    Until you make those required spins you can expect the RTP to be much much lower. How much lower? It depends upon the variance of the slot; higher variance = lower RTP until the required number of spins are made.

    It's what makes slots the absolute worst bet in any casino, and why casinos are really trying to lure people to play slots. :eek:

    If you want to see that 96% RTP keep on spinning and you will get there; may take many millions of spins and depending upon your bet size, a lot of $$$

    *The slot I'm thinking of is the Megabucks slot; the top symbol takes 50mil spins on average to hit.
  12. Nov 19, 2016
  13. lotusch

    lotusch Megaways Slots, as useless as salt in your coffee webby PABaccred mm2

    Marketing Assistant
    Dún Dealgan
    Gorilla go Wild - TRTP% on CasinoEuro (63.2%) and a loss of around 2k.
    Cleopatra Plus - TRTP% on Rizk (61.9%) and also a loss of around that same amount.

    Both on multiple sessions over the past weeks and thousands of spins.
    Never ever did any of these slots recover even the slightest of what I have put in it.

    I already decided to give up on these slots and basicly I also just stick to Netent / WMS / MGS and Novomatic & maybe a bit of Play n Go.

    All other providers have proven me over and over again that their slots actually suck.
    I don't trust them anymore,simple as that and this is from playing them myself and basicly only throwing money in with out getting anything back at all. Them 2 slots above from NYX and IGT are vile and false biatches.
  14. Nov 19, 2016
  15. SlotGrinder

    SlotGrinder Senior Member

    Poker Player
    I don't know the exact slot you're talking about but the general statement that it takes millions of spins to achieve rtp is wrong . Only time that is true is if you have a big progressive jackpot involved

    If the rtp is 96% then if u do 1000 trials of 50000 spins each then your results are going to be centred around that 96% figure . Some will be higher , some lower . Higher variance slots will have a greater spread of results than lower variance slots . Eg starburst results will be tightly clustered around that 96% rtp figure , whilst Raging Rhino results will have a lot wider range of results including some very low rtp's and some very high ones too
  16. Nov 19, 2016
  17. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    "I don't know the exact slot you're talking about but the general statement that it takes millions of spins..."
    I never said that; I said: "Some slots take 50 million spins." And "It may take millions of spins."
    I even gave an example of the particular slot I was referring to.
  18. Nov 19, 2016
  19. SlotGrinder

    SlotGrinder Senior Member

    Poker Player
    Is that a huge progressive jackpot slot ? Because they are in a different class since a lot of the rtp goes to the jackpot of course . Normal slots where the "jackpot" is just 1000x or something don't need millions of spins because a 1000x win can't affect the results too heavily over that many spins

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