Slow Pay About the Rushmore Group warning

Larsenne

Dormant account
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Location
World Citizen
Apparently this problem is more serious than I have expected at first. In the warning Maxd tells that some players get paid
and OTHERS DON'T.
I had the impression that Rushmore Group paid all the players in the end, it just take endless time to get your funds.
But if the Rushmore Group doesn't pay some player at all, how far is this group from the rouge pit?
As I understand this has gone on for a while.
I, myself, have funds to get.

L'arsenne
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Apparently this problem is more serious than I have expected at first. In the warning Maxd tells that some players get paid
and OTHERS DON'T.
I had the impression that Rushmore Group paid all the players in the end, it just take endless time to get your funds.
But if the Rushmore Group doesn't pay some player at all, how far is this group from the rouge pit?
As I understand this has gone on for a while.
I, myself, have funds to get.

L'arsenne

It may be that they didn't get paid during the time Max was prepared to spend on the PABs before issuing a general alert. The fact that even under the watchful eyes of Max, and knowing the possible consequences for failure (the warning) they STILL only paid SOME of the players involved. Casinos in the spotlight usually make sure to resolve all the cases they know to have gone through the PAB system, even if this means delaying players who have had problems, but seem willing to remain patient for now.

The spread of "processor problems" to non-US players' withdrawals is also another major concern, as this CANNOT be down to the ducking and diving needed to get past the US banking system, which is the stated reason for these delays occuring in the first place, the repeated resending of payments that bounce back because the banks in the US block them.
 

Lucky1

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Portugal
Not in the US

I'm not in the US and to be fair Rushmore has repeatedly assured me that i will get paid and apologized. Having said that, it is possible that it is true about the processing issues to Us players . I recall a couple of casinos last year having issues and they promptly found a way to pay me ....WESTERN UNION. They must of found people that somehow were willing to send funds as personal transactions. Where there's a will there's a way!!!!! I do find it aggravating not being paid as stated in their own rules which sets doubts in players minds and the business in general . I so not want to be the cause of this group being classified as Rogue simply because they are late paying. I think that there are far more serious issues that would cause a casino to be discredited such has Rudeness, double billing etc....

As far as i know they still answer their phones , support still answers our questions and their websites are working as always, so if their intention is to avoid paying they could easily disappear!!

Of course I'm upset for the delay and having to hound them for payment and Yes I'm not a fool knowing that there's a 98% chance i will not get paid !!! The good thing about all this is LESSON LEARNED!!!!

Just a thought!!!

Just my thoughts!!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I'm not in the US and to be fair Rushmore has repeatedly assured me that i will get paid and apologized. Having said that, it is possible that it is true about the processing issues to Us players . I recall a couple of casinos last year having issues and they promptly found a way to pay me ....WESTERN UNION. They must of found people that somehow were willing to send funds as personal transactions. Where there's a will there's a way!!!!! I do find it aggravating not being paid as stated in their own rules which sets doubts in players minds and the business in general . I so not want to be the cause of this group being classified as Rogue simply because they are late paying. I think that there are far more serious issues that would cause a casino to be discredited such has Rudeness, double billing etc....

As far as i know they still answer their phones , support still answers our questions and their websites are working as always, so if their intention is to avoid paying they could easily disappear!!
Of course I'm upset for the delay and having to hound them for payment and Yes I'm not a fool knowing that there's a 98% chance i will not get paid !!! The good thing about all this is LESSON LEARNED!!!!

Just a thought!!!

Just my thoughts!!

Not if their intention is to keep on taking deposits.

Virtual group almost always try to avoid paying, but they stick around to keep the deposits flowing in. They also present a cheery but false face to players who are depositing, and only show their true colours when a player makes a substantial withdrawal
 

Lucky1

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Portugal
And the answer is?

So let me ask the Ultimate question to those that have the knowledge about all the issues of online casinos specifically withdrawal problems:

WHAT IS THE LAST RESORT A PLAYER HAS TO FORCE THEM TO PAY?
 

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
So let me ask the Ultimate question to those that have the knowledge about all the issues of online casinos specifically withdrawal problems:

WHAT IS THE LAST RESORT A PLAYER HAS TO FORCE THEM TO PAY?

You can't FORCE them to do anything they don't want to do. They can simply shut the doors, turn off the phones, close down live chat, and be done with it all. IF there is a cashflow problem, they need players to deposit and lose. And if word is spreading around the various forums that they aren't paying, they are losing depositing customers every day. No one wants to have to wait weeks for their money, especially non-US players.

Non-US players have tons of places to choose from, why are they picking places like this to play at??? I'd be playing at NetEnt casinos, MG casinos, playtech casinos. Seriously, why play at some RTG casino that is targetted for US players?

I sincerely hope everyone gets paid in the end, it doesn't look good. I see this group fading into the background in 2012, leaving a bad comparision to Virtual in its wake.
 

Lucky1

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Portugal
Thank you!!

Your answer is what i thought, nothing players can do except maybe even if they close down isn't it a fact they conducted business and defrauded people? don't they hold business licenses? Aren't there actual people that own this sites? I personally would be very worried if had such a business and intentionally did so. Fraud is fraud.

I'm quite sure that most casinos whether land casinos or online casinos try til the very last possible solution to make it right by the clients that patronized them , not doing that would certainly open many doors for much bigger headaches.

Money is in fact the root of all evil........
 

footdr

Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
cyberspace
Please update when you get paid.......

I have no doubt that players will eventually be paid, but the question is how long it will take.

Everyone needs to post when they receive their payment and include how long it took to receive. That is good information for all.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I have no doubt that players will eventually be paid, but the question is how long it will take.

Everyone needs to post when they receive their payment and include how long it took to receive. That is good information for all.

I respectfully disagree. It is obvious the 'processor problems' are false and they are having cashflow problems. This could lead to them being unable to sustain operation and in the end some players wont get paid at all. While I believe they will continue to make ends meet there is no certainty that each and every player will ultimately be paid. Players are not finally being paid due to a resolved issue but rather because they are either awaiting fresh deposits or new injection of funds the latter of which is non-existent otherwise they could easily have cleared the 'backlog' in one go. In this instance, when a player gets paid , another will have his payment delayed so when one posts about receiving payment from this group the info is not really useful imo.
 

footdr

Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
cyberspace
I respectfully disagree. It is obvious the 'processor problems' are false and they are having cashflow problems. This could lead to them being unable to sustain operation and in the end some players wont get paid at all. While I believe they will continue to make ends meet there is no certainty that each and every player will ultimately be paid. Players are not finally being paid due to a resolved issue but rather because they are either awaiting fresh deposits or new injection of funds the latter of which is non-existent otherwise they could easily have cleared the 'backlog' in one go. In this instance, when a player gets paid , another will have his payment delayed so when one posts about receiving payment from this group the info is not really useful imo.

I base my statements on past payment problems. Based on past performance over the past several years or from time when they were rouged they have had payment issues but I have always been paid and believe others have also. So I don't know why the current problems would be any different. But I understand what you are saying. I have continued to be a player and VIP at Rushmore for past 5 years.

I also think those of us with pending payments would appreciate knowing when a player is paid and how long it took, if just for peace of mind that people are getting payment.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Your answer is what i thought, nothing players can do except maybe even if they close down isn't it a fact they conducted business and defrauded people? don't they hold business licenses? Aren't there actual people that own this sites? I personally would be very worried if had such a business and intentionally did so. Fraud is fraud.

I'm quite sure that most casinos whether land casinos or online casinos try til the very last possible solution to make it right by the clients that patronized them , not doing that would certainly open many doors for much bigger headaches.

Money is in fact the root of all evil........

Online casinos have vanished with players' money before, and in most cases no-one has been held personally accountable. It is a company that folds, and when it does, it folds as a "limited" entity, which means that once the company is in liquidation, players, employees, suppliers, etc all become "creditors", and the assets are sold and divided between them as so many cents in the dollar of debt owed.

There have been some notable failures of companies based in respectable jurisdictions, yet players have ended up losing thousands with no means of redress.

All players can do is hassle them repeatedly for payment to ensure it is not they who end up unpaid when the worst happens, and once paid, stay well away.

Rushmore have lived a charmed life in that they have managed to pay in the end, and then announce "issue resolved, business as usual", only to encounter the same "issue" a month later.

When they had a rep here, she more or less burned herself out trying to keep us happy, and in the end she left Rushmore and was not replaced. Management seemed to view her as an irritant.

In the past, their excuses were at least credible, as it was US players suffering the problems, and players outside the US were mostly getting paid fast. This changed recently, and now ALL players suffer "processor delays". This is the point at which the excuses began to unravel. The EU did NOT pass UIGEA, so there should be no problem getting a decent processor to do what is LEGAL in most of the EU, and at standard cost to the casino. Despite this, they seem to use the SAME dodgy US facing processor that will break the law and hide the nature of the payments so that US banks think it's payment for things like "consultancy work", or a refund from a certain bike shop in the middle east, a service for which the processor charges high fees, and with the risk to the casino that if the feds start sniffing around too closely, the processor will run with the money and hide, leaving players and casino out of pocket.


Lock casino made the same mistake. A EU player was owed a considerable sum, and upon investigation the casino admitted that "his money" had been on US soil, and had been seized by the DoJ. There was no reason for "his money" to be anywhere near the US, and should therefore never have been at risk of a DoJ seizure. This was after UIGEA, when operators knew that every cent on US soil was at risk, and that payments to non-US players should NOT be mingled with payments to US players.

It seems Rushmore repeat this mistake over and over again, and have EVERYTHING going through the US.

What they should have done is to open Euro denominated skins of their casinos, and served non-US players with these, perhaps with a flagship UK Pound casino for the Brits. Euros don't go near the US, not even briefly in transit, which is a problem with the US dollar. Club World had a UK pound and Euro version of it's flagship casino, and even though they still serve the US, their problems are nowhere near as severe as those suffered by Rushmore.

Rushmore may well have started doing this, but seem to have left it too late. Along with US players, they are in denial that this time the US government have effectively won the war, and all that is left are pockets of resistance that are being put down one by one.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I base my statements on past payment problems. Based on past performance over the past several years or from time when they were rouged they have had payment issues but I have always been paid and believe others have also. So I don't know why the current problems would be any different. But I understand what you are saying. I have continued to be a player and VIP at Rushmore for past 5 years.

I also think those of us with pending payments would appreciate knowing when a player is paid and how long it took, if just for peace of mind that people are getting payment.

I think 32Red is rouged too..... :D

Seriously though, I don't think it matters if players post about getting paid. I doesn't hurt anyone, and it is just for information purposes. I don't believe anyone posting that information is saying "Hey go play there they're great!".

Personally, if thats how Rushmore treats their VIPs, then god help the plebs.

I'm surprised after five years, with the constant payment delays, that you haven't gone to some other operator who will undoubtedly treat you far better.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
.... In the warning Maxd tells that some players get paid and OTHERS DON'T.

Actually, what I said was:
... We've taken on a few Rushmore complaints over the past months and they've all been the same story. In some cases players eventually get paid, in some cases they don't ....

So the "some do/some don't" stuff refers to the PABs we've seen regarding the Rushmore group over the last year or so and what happened while I was handling those issues. The stalling of payments was pretty consistent with all the PAB issues but players that had their docs, etc in order did seem to get paid, eventually. As I recall others got tied up in the docs verification phase and things dragged on forever ... and "forever" is longer than I have to spend on those issues so I moved on to other things.

Basically what I was trying to say was that whether the PABs involved questionable circumstances or not the delays were pretty much standard operating procedure, AFAICT. From my POV that amount of stalling is getting damn close to not paying because nothing seems to happen unless someone keeps kicking them to deal with it. In other words if you stop them they'll presumably not pay, or pay at some undefined point in the future of their choosing and convenience. If I were caught in those circumstances I'd be pretty pissed-off. :axeman:

I hope that clarifies the situation.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Actually, what I said was:


So the "some do/some don't" stuff refers to the PABs we've seen regarding the Rushmore group over the last year or so and what happened while I was handling those issues. The stalling of payments was pretty consistent with all the PAB issues but players that had their docs, etc in order did seem to get paid, eventually. As I recall others got tied up in the docs verification phase and things dragged on forever ... and "forever" is longer than I have to spend on those issues so I moved on to other things.

Basically what I was trying to say was that whether the PABs involved questionable circumstances or not the delays were pretty much standard operating procedure, AFAICT. From my POV that amount of stalling is getting damn close to not paying because nothing seems to happen unless someone keeps kicking them to deal with it. In other words if you stop them they'll presumably not pay, or pay at some undefined point in the future of their choosing and convenience. If I were caught in those circumstances I'd be pretty pissed-off. :axeman:

I hope that clarifies the situation.

Couldn't this simply be another means of stalling, deliberately stringing out verification rather than proceeding as quickly as possible to the stage where they can pay, or state categorically that they won't due to fraud.
 

Diane

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Location
WI
Here is my final message to Rushmore/Slots Oasis

FWIW -

Diane
_______________________________________________________________________________

To: vipclub <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:56 pm
Subject: Re: Upgrade To Slots Oasis Presidential Status


All,

This has not gotten any better. And you have not heeded my advice about having a presence on CM. I am frankly disappointed that you have not pro-actively taken steps to repair the damage created.

Your continued silence AND the information given me from Thomas about the "if I win today, that it will reasonably taking 5-6 weeks to get paid" is unacceptable. Regardless of the free chips and great promotional bonuses, I cannot play until your problems have been resolved. I feel badly saying this, since Slots Oasis was my very first casino experience a few years ago and I have enjoyed playing there. I appreciate your giving me Presidential Status, but with all the other issues, it still isn't enough to get me to return. You need to solve the problems.

I could just "go away" and not have said anything, but I have wanted to see you get back on track. But you are not doing anything visible to the player base to make us feel that way.

I know US players are a challenge. But I can get paid right now within a week from all these other sites:

Club World Group
Diamond VIP
3Dice
Slotocash
Liberty Slots
Treasure Mile/Lucky Creek - Genesys Group
Jackpot Capital
iNetbet

One of these even sends me CASH in the mail because they were having difficulty getting money to me via wire.

If these specific competitors can figure out a way to get players paid week in and week out ----- I just don't understand why YOUR group can't. They have found alternative processors, they can courier checks, they can do wires and ACH to credit unions without needing a SWIFT number. They send CASH. All have found creative ways to get us paid in reasonable time limits.

Why can't your group? Obviously you don't owe me any money-- but my disappointment and your track record has now put me in a place that I cannot find any reason to redeposit again and resume play at Slots Oasis.

As soon as you can pro-actively get something done to ensure timely payments, I plan to return. But something dramatic has to happen and you have to make it "right" with a lot of people.

My unsolicited advice...............FWIW, do with it what you will.

Diane
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Couldn't this simply be another means of stalling ...

Yes, of course it could. And given how long and how liberally the "processor problems" excuse gets used one has to seriously wonder if the people doing the documents verification aren't waiting for their paychecks too ... "processor problems" perhaps.
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
Louise is still linked as the Casino Rep for the Rushmore casinos on the RTG list, that should probably be changed...?
 

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
IMHO, having an active rep here now won't change anything. It's too late. There are too many players who are angry and frustrated (US AND Non-US) and it would be sending the rep directly into an ambush.

There isn't anything they can say that hasn't already been said by CSR. If mediation by Max isn't working what makes you think a rep will be any different? Rushmore group knows they're in financial straits, did it occur to anyone... Louise stopped being active here after their last financial "crisis". When they got straightened around she posted a few times and then disappeared again, not to be heard from since. Coincidence?

Players aren't being paid for months at a time, but the casinos are still sending out bonuses to attract players to play. If word is spreading amongst the forums of cashflow problems paying players, players are going to find different casinos to deposit at. No deposits=no money coming in=no money to pay out to players.

Once the money is gone, the casino closes up shop, liquidates what assets they can to pay who they can, players being last. At this point in time, I don't think it really matters if you have "presidential" VIP status or if you are just a regular joe looking for a little fun...If you win you're gonna wait, and wait, and wait. And pray that you get your winnings.

Don't get me wrong, I think Louise did a marvelous job when she was here. She went well out of her way to accommodate the players with any and all problems presented to her. Too bad there aren't more reps like her! I just feel that at this point in time, having a rep for this group is pointless. Unless you enjoy lynchings, because that's IMO, what would happen if Rushmore group assigned a rep to the forum now...
 

Diane

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Location
WI
IMHO, having an active rep here now won't change anything. It's too late. There are too many players who are angry and frustrated (US AND Non-US) and it would be sending the rep directly into an ambush.

There isn't anything they can say that hasn't already been said by CSR. If mediation by Max isn't working what makes you think a rep will be any different? Rushmore group knows they're in financial straits, did it occur to anyone... Louise stopped being active here after their last financial "crisis". When they got straightened around she posted a few times and then disappeared again, not to be heard from since. Coincidence?

Players aren't being paid for months at a time, but the casinos are still sending out bonuses to attract players to play. If word is spreading amongst the forums of cashflow problems paying players, players are going to find different casinos to deposit at. No deposits=no money coming in=no money to pay out to players.

Once the money is gone, the casino closes up shop, liquidates what assets they can to pay who they can, players being last. At this point in time, I don't think it really matters if you have "presidential" VIP status or if you are just a regular joe looking for a little fun...If you win you're gonna wait, and wait, and wait. And pray that you get your winnings.

Don't get me wrong, I think Louise did a marvelous job when she was here. She went well out of her way to accommodate the players with any and all problems presented to her. Too bad there aren't more reps like her! I just feel that at this point in time, having a rep for this group is pointless. Unless you enjoy lynchings, because that's IMO, what would happen if Rushmore group assigned a rep to the forum now...

I have to disagree. Having a rep here could not HURT them any more than they are already damaged. I have had to go to customers hat in hand during my career and ask for a second chance to prove I deserved their business. It is not unfixable --- but they are in a deep hole.

What do they have to lose by slowly trying to respond to all who are waiting for answers? They need to come inhere with thick skin and take the drubbing they deserve. But if its only empty promises, then I agree, don't bother us.

Diane
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
In the earlier days and Louise was the rep here she had some control over payment and miscellaneous issues and she outshone many other reps by being able to speed up things. It seems the group itself is mired in financial difficulties so promises, if any, will not come to fruition. In this instance, having a rep here is not worth it and credibility is likely to be 0. Nearly every player will be concerned about the slow payments and it would be tough on the rep to blatantly lie on the forum stating 'processor problems' Spare a thought for the poor rep whose hands are tied by the group's inability to pay.
 
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