A question to fellow members who live in Germany

[Harry_BKK]

Ok guys, i gave up after page 6 and decided to write my story as it explains very well what is happening:

I was born in 1968 in a small village called Honigberg/Harman in Transylvania, Romania. As some might know Transylvania was part of Austria-Hungary until the end of WWI when it was given to Romania. A minority of Germans were suddenly Romanian citizens. Came WWII Romania was run over by Germany and most Germans fought in the German Army until the end of the war. The largest part of the German population between 18-55 was then deported to Russia for slave labour where appr. 40% died due to illness, malnutrition etc.

After some 5-7 years the reminder was put in cattle wagons and trucked to Germany where they could decide - door to left Western Zone, door to the right Eastern Bloc. Most of them chose the left door.

Hence, you had families separated by not just borders but completely different political systems. When Ceaucescu came to power he saw a good business opportunity and signed a contract with Western Germany to have the Germans repatriated and reunited with their spouses/fathers/mothers etc.

As the situation worsened in the 70's the will do emigrate to Germany became stronger and stronger. A mafia developed where people would pay up 4000 EURO /person (sounds familiar he??? similar price as today) to some dodgy trafficker to receive their passports and visas. Many of the politicians and securitate people were stinking rich when Ceaucescu was thrown over.

These emigrants then returned after 2 years to visit their relatives and were driving a nice Merc or Audi, were wearing jeans, had chocolate, coffee and cigarettes etc. and would flash the cash in front of every body. This drove the people crazy. Little did they know that the car was 15 years old, the jeans from the penny shop and the chocolate and coffee from Aldi. But their situation was so bad that it was enough to push them over their limit.

I can tell you that in the late 80's if you would have told the people that they would have to crawl on all 4's to the border and then they could leave, everybody would have done it. After the wall came down the population of Transylvanian Saxons (as we are officially called) diminished within 12 months from 250.000 to a mere 15.000. That is the exodus of people being pushed to their absolute limits by the political system and just wanting to get out. Similar happened in Russia, Czech Republic, Slowakia etc who all had a German minority.

Today, i see the same thing happening. Only the countries have changed, they are now Syria, Irak, Afghanistan, Eritrea. They all have some relatives/friends in this "rich" western countries who send them money, clothing, luxury goods like smartphones etc and basically driving people yet again crazy. Their political situation is even worse than in the communistic era.

Now also the Mafia has become bigger and better organized, they have satphones, chat online in private rooms and basically making a ton of money with the people who are yet again pushed to their limits by their political situation/system. And the more are leaving, the more want to follow.

I can tell you from my own experience ( i was lucky enough to emigrate legally to Germany in 1984 without having to pay traffickers but regret until this day that i left my beloved home)... NOBODY WANTS TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND.

This is the truth about all this people movements towards the West:

• Driven crazy by their friends/relatives who are in the respective countries and are apparently living the high life
• Pushed over the limit by their political/personal situation
• Fleeced by the traffickers/mafia
• Looking for a better life, anything will be better than the situation at home
• How else can you explain that a father puts his wife and 2 little kids on a rocky boat (pays 4000 EUR) and does not spend a tenner on a life west or swim ring. They are just too desperate to leave.

This has very little to do with people wanting to leave their homelands....it is an organized mafia who is making money of desperate people the same way as they do with drugs, prostitution etc.

 

[goatwack]

Ok guys, i gave up after page 6 and decided to write my story as it explains very well what is happening:

I was born in 1968 in a small village called Honigberg/Harman in Transylvania, Romania. As some might know Transylvania was part of Austria-Hungary until the end of WWI when it was given to Romania. A minority of Germans were suddenly Romanian citizens. Came WWII Romania was run over by Germany and most Germans fought in the German Army until the end of the war. The largest part of the German population between 18-55 was then deported to Russia for slave labour where appr. 40% died due to illness, malnutrition etc.

After some 5-7 years the reminder was put in cattle wagons and trucked to Germany where they could decide - door to left Western Zone, door to the right Eastern Bloc. Most of them chose the left door.

Hence, you had families separated by not just borders but completely different political systems. When Ceaucescu came to power he saw a good business opportunity and signed a contract with Western Germany to have the Germans repatriated and reunited with their spouses/fathers/mothers etc.

As the situation worsened in the 70's the will do emigrate to Germany became stronger and stronger. A mafia developed where people would pay up 4000 EURO /person (sounds familiar he??? similar price as today) to some dodgy trafficker to receive their passports and visas. Many of the politicians and securitate people were stinking rich when Ceaucescu was thrown over.

These emigrants then returned after 2 years to visit their relatives and were driving a nice Merc or Audi, were wearing jeans, had chocolate, coffee and cigarettes etc. and would flash the cash in front of every body. This drove the people crazy. Little did they know that the car was 15 years old, the jeans from the penny shop and the chocolate and coffee from Aldi. But their situation was so bad that it was enough to push them over their limit.

I can tell you that in the late 80's if you would have told the people that they would have to crawl on all 4's to the border and then they could leave, everybody would have done it. After the wall came down the population of Transylvanian Saxons (as we are officially called) diminished within 12 months from 250.000 to a mere 15.000. That is the exodus of people being pushed to their absolute limits by the political system and just wanting to get out. Similar happened in Russia, Czech Republic, Slowakia etc who all had a German minority.

Today, i see the same thing happening. Only the countries have changed, they are now Syria, Irak, Afghanistan, Eritrea. They all have some relatives/friends in this "rich" western countries who send them money, clothing, luxury goods like smartphones etc and basically driving people yet again crazy. Their political situation is even worse than in the communistic era.

Now also the Mafia has become bigger and better organized, they have satphones, chat online in private rooms and basically making a ton of money with the people who are yet again pushed to their limits by their political situation/system. And the more are leaving, the more want to follow.

I can tell you from my own experience ( i was lucky enough to emigrate legally to Germany in 1984 without having to pay traffickers but regret until this day that i left my beloved home)... NOBODY WANTS TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND.

This is the truth about all this people movements towards the West:

• Driven crazy by their friends/relatives who are in the respective countries and are apparently living the high life
• Pushed over the limit by their political/personal situation
• Fleeced by the traffickers/mafia
• Looking for a better life, anything will be better than the situation at home
• How else can you explain that a father puts his wife and 2 little kids on a rocky boat (pays 4000 EUR) and does not spend a tenner on a life west or swim ring. They are just too desperate to leave.

This has very little to do with people wanting to leave their homelands....it is an organized mafia who is making money of desperate people the same way as they do with drugs, prostitution etc.

You raise some good points here, it is far to easy to believe that many risk death with their children in tow when in reality many of these people are probably being extorted or coerced into coming to Europe. Traffickers are having a field day for sure.....not all refugees that reach mainland Europe will end up living a life of luxury. No doubt many will end up in some form of slavery or whatever else.

Mind you, the examples quoted, though extreme at the time, are relatively miniscule compared to what is happening here presently, it is unprecendented in scale. There are approx. 200,000 arriving via Greece every month and the numbers are rising. People accept helping those most in need but where does it stop/ slow down? Europe cannot sustain these numbers.

Syria has a population of 79 million, like you mention this has a knock-on effect where those left behind will want to follow those that have made it over here. There will come a saturation point, I couldn't believe what I read, Berlin wants to accomodate close to a million refugees in a population of 3 and a half million people. This will change the demographic of Berlin and Germany almost instantly.

People's opposition to this also stems from Religious differences given the florid history of Christianity and Islam. Many Europeans may feel open to welcoming integration but feel large numbers are simply seizing an opportunity to get what they can, as much as they can whilst keeping their communities segragated from their hosts. This is what angers natives and causes resentment and will most probably only lead to secular hostilities long term, 10- 20 years down the line.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Mind you, the examples quoted, though extreme at the time, are relatively miniscule compared to what is happening here presently, it is unprecendented in scale. There are approx. 200,000 arriving via Greece every month and the numbers are rising. People accept helping those most in need but where does it stop/ slow down? Europe cannot sustain these numbers.

Total number of Germans or people with German origin repatriated after Oct 1989 from countries: Romania, Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Czech Republic, Slowakia = appr. 2.5Mio.

The numbers were not small at all, the good part was though that the most spoke German, were either protestant or catholic and easy to integrate.

 

[goatwack]

Total number of Germans or people with German origin repatriated after Oct 1989 from countries: Romania, Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Czech Republic, Slowakia = appr. 2.5Mio.

The numbers were not small at all, the good part was though that the most spoke German, were either protestant or catholic and easy to integrate.

I have to disagree with you there Harry, 2.5m over a 26- year period is not a lot. Almost a quarter of a million per month is. So relatively speaking, over that timeframe, theoretically there would be 78 million at this current rate. I think the scale of this problem is lost on those not in the thick of it and probably doesn't dominate the news like it does here at present. I think hysteria is starting to set in over here, that's for sure

 

[Harry_BKK]

I have to disagree with you there Harry, 2.5m over a 26- year period is not a lot. Almost a quarter of a million per month is. So relatively speaking, over that timeframe, theoretically there would be 78 million at this current rate. I think the scale of this problem is lost on those not in the thick of it and probably doesn't dominate the news like it does here at present. I think hysteria is starting to set in over here, that's for sure

No, those are the numbers for 3 years after Oct 1989.

I was an active volunteer at the time and had some insight into that.

 

[goatwack]

Fair enough, just you didn't mention it was over three years. This would have been a finite number of nationals returning home and not a sudden continent transfer as appears to be happening now

 

[Harry_BKK]

Fair enough, just you didn't mention it was over three years. This would have been a finite number of nationals returning home and not a sudden continent transfer as appears to be happening now

sorry that i missed that

100% right on the last part

 

[hedgehok]

Syria has a population of 79 million, like you mention this has a knock-on effect where those left behind will want to follow those that have made it over here. There will come a saturation point, I couldn't believe what I read, Berlin wants to accomodate close to a million refugees in a population of 3 and a half million people. This will change the demographic of Berlin and Germany almost instantly.

These figures seem to be flawed. With "Berlin" whole Germany is meant.

 

[goatwack]

These figures seem to be flawed. With "Berlin" whole Germany is meant.

Yes you are correct, my mistake with that figure. But as for Berlin taking those numbers in, this has been reported. I was taken aback too as it did not mention Germany as a whole but specifically Berlin. I have no doubt these numbers will be dispersed across the country gradually though.

 

[citizenx]

I tend not to like to mix politics with the core discussion on here but I think I'm going to make an exception in this case.

I am not from Germany but this is a far wider issue now.

Firstly - People in the west like to blame themselves for this situation but the country in question at the moment is Syria (although many of the purported refugees are from Africa, Pakistan and Afghanistan). Syria is at war with itself and ISIS. This is NOT entirely down to western intervention in the middle east (which, for the record, I have never supported).

The foundations for ISIS emerged in the mid-late 90's - before "our" latest incursions into Iraq and Afghanistan.

Arguably "our" intervention, particularly in Iraq may have meant the war in Syria happened sooner than it otherwise would have but I believe it has been inevitable for decades. We can go back through history and play "what if's" but its not really constructive.

So, whilst the west likes to blame itself, it is NOT in my view entirely of "our making".


Next -

The refugee "crisis" has been ongoing for some time. Europe has clearly defined rules on people seeking asylum, specifically that they do so in the first safe country they reach. In my view, this is reasonable. It is then a matter of political dialogue between the leaders of EU nations as to whether to fund camps or to absorb a share of any asylum seekers.

The moment people reach safety in my view is the end of the line for an asylum seeker. Should they then CHOOSE to move through Europe of their own volition, they abandon the protection of their status and become economic migrants - and illegal ones at that. In my view, people who act in this way should be treated as such and deported to the country they're from. If they obscure their identify (by destroying passports for example) then they should be assumed to be Syrian and sent there.

This may sound harsh but:

There are literally MILLIONS of people who may be tempted to follow suit. Should that happen, Europe will be decimated and in all honestly, likely result in sending in the military to remove these people.

Second, there are many people who are in equal or more need of refuge who are playing by the rules. To me this indicates integrity and they should be the ones who are prioritised. Which is why I believe David Cameron is right to say that the UK will NOT accept ANY who force their way through Europe but WILL take more people from the camps.

Third, those who show a disregard for the rules of entry to our part of the world indicate they will not abide by the laws and cultures of their host nations. Frankly, we don't need or want people like that amongst us.

Finally, I'm deeply suspicious of the proportion of young men in the midst of this group making its way to Germany. I'm sure most are civillians but I'd bet my entire years gambling fund on there being many ISIS members amongst them. We will never know until its too late. Those staying in camps will have their backgrounds extensively checked in a way which isn't possible with a militant influx of people.



Germany's role

In my view, Merkel is a disgrace. I don't know how or why the German people are tolerating her behaviour, I'm certain that the British people will not stand for it.

Let me be specific - We are currently "renegotiating" our membership of the EU. We are not happy with the level of net migration from Europe into the UK. Last year, the number who came in (net) was greater than the population of many of our largest cities. This is having a signficant and detrimental impact on employment opportunities, particularly for young people, housing, access to taxpayer funded services. That's before we even get into the effects on our culture.

Merkel has "made it clear" that freedom of movement is non-negotiable - as is the rule about people applying for asylum in the first country they reach in the EU. She cannot pick and choose which rules others abide by and then decide to disregard those which suit her.

We know that the demography of Germany is different and that a significant increase in Germany's younger population is required but encouraging others to flout EU laws to cross Europe, causing significant difficulties for countries along the route is absolutely disgraceful.

Further, if these people reach Germany, in due course, they could be given EU residence which means they'll be free to travel anywhere in the EU.





It seems to me that over recent days, the wheels have came off the EU project and has shown to many its flaws. We are promised a referendum on our membership of the EU by the end of 2017 (probably during 2016) and i was already minded, for many reasons to vote to leave. This has assured that and I dare say many others feel the same.


Had we not had the millions of people who've entered our country over the last decade, exploiting our good-will, then we'd have been far more welcoming to far more refugees. I believe the people are weary of migration (for whatever reason) now and are reacting to it against a group who probably do need more support.

That is entirely the fault of the EU and its supporters.

A recent

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for ITV shows that 55% felt that David Cameron was right to say we would take no more refugees - whilst not far from 50/50 it is very different from the picture you would get if you simply read opinion online.

Further to this, a

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to the UK Parliament has attracted 408,000 signatures demanding more be done. However, this represents only 0.67% of the population.


In conclusion:

Legitimate refugees deserve our support but we have been poisoned against any new incomers due to mass, uncontrolled EU migration.

Support for taking unlimited numbers is not universal.

Merkel is taking the piss out of the EU and its members and needs to be brought down a peg or two.

This is likely to mean the UK votes to leave the EU and i'm all in favour of doing so.

Finally - this is NOT a question of race or ethnicity (for anyone who has any doubts) - it is a question of morality, law and doing right and wrong - and that applies to all parties.

 

[citizenx]

Delete

 

[citizenx]

Wanting money, employment opportunities and a 'western' lifestyle, in and of themselves is not a terrible goal. Not every immigrant is looking for a quick fix, but the best opportunities, like most.
If the process of receiving govt subsidies/benefits is too easy, the better path I'd think is petitioning the government to find better and fairer processes and not blame those seeking the leg up.

We wanted to prevent people from the EU claiming benefits for a period of time after they arrived. We are only allowed to do that if we exclude British young people from benefits for the same period. That is scandalous - people who have a long history here with parents, grandparents and so on paying taxes have to be treated the same as people who have no connection at all.

It isn't as easy as you suggest.

 

[citizenx]

Sympathy is a human quality and people who escaped from terror and war need us now.

Hard to sympathise when people have escaped the persecution they fled but continue to "better" countries because the one they've reached isn't good enough for them.

 

[citizenx]

Out-manouvered a liberal? I really dont know how to answer this comment...if liberal means caring for human beings living tragedies in their lives while most of them were living in their homes and find themselves overnight as refugees with no prospects for future not knowing what tomorrow is made of...
You highlighted JORDAN AND LEBANON in my comment but you left out DONT HAVE THE MEANS
look dunover your first comment on the subject was startling to me and what was more startling is the fact 6 members thanked you for it..WOW It doesnt honor me to engage in any exchange with a guy carrying along those kind of views because I am pretty sure I will get tossed out of this forum if I express myself and tell you what I think of you

Strikes me that your compassion rests with the refugees and you have absolutely no empathy whatsoever with existing populations. Why is that, may I enquire if you identify with the refugees in some way?

 

[zaalouk29]

Strikes me that your compassion rests with the refugees and you have absolutely no empathy whatsoever with existing populations. Why is that, may I enquire if you identify with the refugees in some way?

I indentify with humans who are suffering because it might happen to me too , no one is immune from tragedies. I am not a selfish bastard and I dont believe in : I, ME AND MYSELF neither in , as the french says: APRES MOI LE DELUGE
As for the existing populations, they have a say in the whole matter ,in my opinion they should have a survey and if the majority refuses the refugees then their will should be honored.

 

[interlog]

I indentify with humans who are suffering because it might happen to me too , no one is immune from tragedies. I am not a selfish bastard and I dont believe in : I, ME AND MYSELF neither in , as the french says: APRES MOI LE DELUGE
As for the existing populations, they have a say in the whole matter ,in my opinion they should have a survey and if the majority refuses the refugees then their will should be honored.

Unless it is the EU because they will keep asking the population until they have the answer that they want. Ireland will vouch for that.

 

[citizenx]

Unless it is the EU because they will keep asking the population until they have the answer that they want. Ireland will vouch for that.

The EU is, in my opinion a beauracratic dictatorship. It has all the hallmarks of a democratic institution other than a willingness to pay any attention to the wishes of the electorate.

 

[citizenx]

I indentify with humans who are suffering because it might happen to me too , no one is immune from tragedies. I am not a selfish bastard and I dont believe in : I, ME AND MYSELF neither in , as the french says: APRES MOI LE DELUGE

OK, so I take your point and don't disagree in principle. I would suggest however that you might try and take some of the heat out of the way you're expressing yourself. I appreciate it is a subject your are passionate about and respect that BUT I think you need to be a bit more objective and look at it from the point of view of the populations of the host nations.

For instance, the UK has a proud record on taking in asylum seekers - one which puts the rest of Europe to shame.

However, this time it is against a backdrop of austerity ("we can't afford to properly look after "our own" people who are needy"), mass immigration which has affected many peoples opportunities in life - from housing and education to employment and health services.

Just as the genuine refugees simply want to protect their families, the same is true of the people in western Europe - most of whom did not approve of their governments actions in the middle east, but were ignored.

Both populations, if you like are victims of circumstances outwith their control. They have different effects but to both, are troubling.

As for the existing populations, they have a say in the whole matter ,in my opinion they should have a survey and if the majority refuses the refugees then their will should be honored.

I don't disagree. I think that the technology we have no means we should have direct democracy. I note we have a swiss poster on here and I understand they have a form of this.

Imagine, a vote on this, sure. But more broadly, next time my country wants to invade another, the people should be asked and if we say no that should be the end of it.

I wonder what the rest of the world would make of something like that.

 

[livadiva]

It seems to me that all men are created equal. It is opportunity that makes the difference. The Exodus is repeated over and over throughout history. Of course the refugees are headed to the lands of plenty. Lead a horse to water. It is aknowledging that we are not entitled to what we have, just as they are not entitled to help themselves to it. Ultimately, it up to the humanity in each of us. What other choice do these people have?

 

[spintee]

It seems to me that all men are created equal. It is opportunity that makes the difference. The Exodus is repeated over and over throughout history. Of course the refugees are headed to the lands of plenty. Lead a horse to water. It is aknowledging that we are not entitled to what we have, just as they are not entitled to help themselves to it. Ultimately, it up to the humanity in each of us. What other choice do these people have?

They have many of choice, GREED should not be the answer, Like its been pointed out if it was safty they was after than why do they not stop in the first country they hit? Instead of of risky there lives to get to a different country,


I am not into this bollocks politician bull shit & nor do I care, What ever we vote or do is not going to make a blind bit of difference, U.K government is corrupt as they come,Claiming bogus expenses, Such as rent when actually not even staying there, 1st class rail tickets, asking the restaurants to make fake receipts, ordering flowers and wine for there bit on the side, This is just the tip of the iceberg, They could not care less as they do no have to mingle with the havoc its all caused, They have a nice house, a jucey pension just for being in business for a few years,

Its out of control the whole Illegal immigration, I have nothing against any person and will give any person in this world my last few quid or a bed to sleep in, But when that few quid is getting taken of me its a different story,

Its ok when people saying we have to look after people and yes we do, but when it's come to a point when there is noting more to give, Its a right state of affairs in this country, Like somebody posted, Alot of people in this country has not got two pennys to rub together, the housing is in crisis, Which does not help when people come into this country and take our housing to only put 30 bunk beds in there and charge illegal immigrants £50 quid a week, Than then illegal go and do illegal work which takes the jobs from British people, Which than can not afford mortgage and not get a house because Immigrants have got them which the person who lost there job was paying for them, Benifits for people who actually need it is losing out, Immigrants claiming for kids who they have not got,

All this is taking a massive strain on the U.K economic, There is a right way to do things and a wrong way, It seems if people are doing it the wrong way than it seems to make no difference, For people to say that it does not bring crime than you need to get get your head out where the sun does not shine, Even if it brings in 1 criminal its one criminal to many, Its well documented about the crime statistics, Rape and fraud has gone up ten fold in the last few years,

 

[livadiva]

They have many of choice, GREED should not be the answer, Like its been pointed out if it was safty they was after than why do they not stop in the first country they hit? Instead of of risky there lives to get to a different country,


I am not into this bollocks politician bull shit & nor do I care, What ever we vote or do is not going to make a blind bit of difference, U.K government is corrupt as they come,Claiming bogus expenses, Such as rent when actually not even staying there, 1st class rail tickets, asking the restaurants to make fake receipts, ordering flowers and wine for there bit on the side, This is just the tip of the iceberg, They could not care less as they do no have to mingle with the havoc its all caused, They have a nice house, a jucey pension just for being in business for a few years,

Its out of control the whole Illegal immigration, I have nothing against any person and will give any person in this world my last few quid or a bed to sleep in, But when that few quid is getting taken of me its a different story,

Its ok when people saying we have to look after people and yes we do, but when it's come to a point when there is noting more to give, Its a right state of affairs in this country, Like somebody posted, Alot of people in this country has not got two pennys to rub together, the housing is in crisis, Which does not help when people come into this country and take our housing to only put 30 bunk beds in there and charge illegal immigrants £50 quid a week, Than then illegal go and do illegal work which takes the jobs from British people, Which than can not afford mortgage and not get a house because Immigrants have got them which the person who lost there job was paying for them, Benifits for people who actually need it is losing out, Immigrants claiming for kids who they have not got,

All this is taking a massive strain on the U.K economic, There is a right way to do things and a wrong way, It seems if people are doing it the wrong way than it seems to make no difference, For people to say that it does not bring crime than you need to get get your head out where the sun does not shine, Even if it brings in 1 criminal its one criminal to many, Its well documented about the crime statistics, Rape and fraud has gone up ten fold in the last few years,

In all honesty rape and fraud went up in Canada when England sent us their unwanted trash. These are people in need, not the lowlights of the high ranks, and they are looking for help, not pillaging and shoving religion down peoples throats. Karma is a reality, as you take so shall you give, or be taken from. Not long ago England was shipping their families to Canada to escape WWII. Tell me what the difference is but skin colour.

 

[dunover]

Name of the Youtube site: CrushtheIslam

Gatestone Institute: A well known antiislamic society

Muslimstatistics: Linked to Gatestone institute

To use informations from these sources is like asking the Ku Klux Klan how to deal with coloured People.

Does anyone here really believe that 100% of all rapists in Norway are muslim immigrants ?

Irrespective of who uses and why, the information, if it comes from trusted Police/Govt. sources then it doesn't make it any less true. This video should actually read 'Oslo' not Norway as a whole. There was a period unfortunately when this was actually true in Oslo and yes, certain groups were very quick to pick up on it for their own ends. In the UK 'sensitive' information about organized muslim paedophilia etc. IS available but usually after a FOI request to the Govt. or Police. Let's hope one of these 'grooming gangs' never targets any females in your family, eh??


Now somebody's got to say this, so I will.

Where these people come from, N.Africa and the Middle East they are invariably impoverished, uneducated muslims whom have what we would call regressive beliefs that are totally at odds with the Liberal West. Of course the journo's will pull out the English-speaking educated one(s) for their TV articles, but on the whole you can see many elderly/weak ones (will all need looking after by us taxpayers) and many children (will all need schooling and translators etc.) plus many younger working-age men who will need work (all the EU nations have much unemployment).

But that is just the money side; OK we can give them our resources and let few more UK pensioners die as a result of the 'heat or eat' scenario this winter or a few more NHS patients die because certain drugs are too expensive. The REAL effect is the resulting divisions in society and creation of 'states within states'. Once their bellies are full and they have been settled, usually together for the benefit of their community we will inevitably create huge problems. Read about areas of Malmo in Sweden, Berlin in Germany, Oslo in Norway many cities in France (and it has happened in parts of UK major cities) that have become mini Islamic states. No-go areas for women and the police. Regular vandalism, car burning disorder and gang crime. You 'pro' economic migrant people must realize that your hand of friendship will not be reciprocated in the long run. Regressive and medieval beliefs hold far more stock with their community that our dumb, blind subservience ever will. Things like child rape and hitting women and slavery which we find abhorrent can be forgiven with a quick word from the elder. Their systems come before our laws and justice which are generally not recognized.

So don't be fooled by the 'doe eyes' of the queuing hordes - look past that to the future and see the terrible price your hitherto comfortable peaceful societies will pay.

 

[spintee]

In all honesty rape and fraud went up in Canada when England sent us their unwanted trash. These are people in need, not the lowlights of the high ranks, and they are looking for help, not pillaging and shoving religion down peoples throats. Karma is a reality, as you take so shall you give, or be taken from. Not long ago England was shipping their families to Canada to escape WWII. Tell me what the difference is but skin colour.

Rape most likely went up but not British raping Canadians but visa versa,

Help will will give, When genuine

Yes they are, Building Mosque every where and trying to convert schools in to horrible belives

Most probably true as they was week, & who ever was shipped over there was not even genuine British, The best thing to come out of Canada is Justin bebier and he is a little shit, Just goes to show

Oh and nothing about colour, Most immigrants are white,

 

[livadiva]

Rape most likely went up but not British raping Canadians but visa versa,

Help will will give, When genuine

Yes they are, Building Mosque every where and trying to convert schools in to horrible belives

Most probably true as they was week, & who ever was shipped over there was not even genuine British, The best thing to come out of Canada is Justin bebier and he is a little shit, Just goes to show

The British terrorized, raped, tortured and killed our native peoples...the Government are still atoning for that. You are not educated on current events or history. argue with yourself, i'm not patient enough to educate this level of ignorance.

 

[spintee]

The British terrorized, raped, tortured and killed our native peoples...the Government are still atoning for that. You are not educated on current events or history. argue with yourself, i'm not patient enough to educate this level of ignorance.

No one is nether patient when there wrong,

I am not arguing, But you are biting your nose of to spite your face,

So it is not right for the Brits to evade your country and rape & kill (As you say so) But its ok for the rest of the world to come to U.K and do it?

Two wrongs do not make a right, If you stated we deserve it than say that