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A little abrupt...

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Dipity, Feb 9, 2012.

    Feb 9, 2012
  1. Dipity

    Dipity Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Web Designer
    Location:
    UK
    Lol. Just recieved this email from AllJackpots and WildJack.

    Zero warning from any previous emails. I mean, I knew it would happen with some casinos - but this is very abrupt.
     
  2. Feb 9, 2012
  3. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    Insensitive, abrupt and rude. They do not even have the decency to say thank you for your patronage and we hope to serve you sometime in the future... Hey didn't Allslots win the Customer Service of the year award?? ..... NOT...

    Nate
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Feb 9, 2012
  5. SlotsLover

    SlotsLover Senior Member PABnorogue PABnononaccred3 MM PABinit PABaccred

    Occupation:
    teacher
    Location:
    California
    Spain

    Is there some issue with online gaming in Spain?
     
  6. Feb 9, 2012
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is extremely poor. There is no way they were ambushed by this decision. They must have known in advance that they would be doing this.


    They should have set a date, and then sent emails to all their players in Spain that from a given date, they could no longer be served, and should play out any bonuses, redeem any comps, and withdraw their balances before a set date, after which they would no longer be able to log in.

    I have seen many casinos close down markets in this manner. Jackpot Factory certainly did this when they moved US players over from Microgaming to the Level 11 clone, and again when they pulled out altogether. The same notice was given when Royal Joker was closed down. I had an account there inherited from Intertops, and I received several emails in advance of it's closure.

    So, despite this, it is OK to be abrupt and rude to the Spanish, and do an overnight ambush closure after giving no indication whatsoever that this was about to happen. Now, Spanish players will be expecting the same from casinos that ARE staying in the market, and are less likely to play because they will fear they will suffer yet another ambush closure. This is a particular concern with MGS as they could have been mid way through one of the MPV tournaments, or playing their weekly slots race.

    Players in other countries will fear the same also if they have laws that are similar to those in spain. Greece, for example, who now ask that operators get an internal license on top of their main international one. Even UK players may not be clear if the UK rules change to introduce the need for a licence with the Gambling Commission, rather than simply being on the whitelist. UK players are lucky in that so far the government have not interfered by taking measures to block offshore gambling sites, nor the transactions. As far as the government are concerned, it's up to us whether we play at a casino in the whitelisted jurisdictions, or one "licensed" in Costa Rica. They are only revisiting this view because they have seen that rogue operators have been taking advantage of this relaxed regime and targetting UK players, and then screwing them over.

    This could become a problem for many EU countries as it seems the idea of having separate licenses in each is catching on.

    It seems odd that these operators fought hard against the DoJ when they were in the US market, and broke all sorts of US laws for years in order to hang on to the players, yet they fold without putting up much of a fight when it comes to countries like Spain trying to shut out the offshore operations. JF are in Israel, not part of the EU, and therefore out of reach of the EU courts. I thought their servers were outside the EU as well (KGC), so again out of reach of the EU courts.

    The ONLY motive seems to be that they intend to get a license for Spain soon, and don't want to spoil their chances. In this case, why tell the players their accounts are closed, rather than temporarily suspended pending the grant of a license to operate within Spain.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Feb 9, 2012
  9. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I think it's just bad management - as professional operators with even half an ear to the ground they must have known the Spanish changes were coming, and presumably the casino owners had considered their reaction to the situation, giving them plenty of time to put together a proper and professional exit plan.

    As others have said, this comes across as rude and autocratic...and definitely lacking in player sensitivity.

    You would think these people, who have been in the industry for awhile, would know better. :mad:
     
  10. Feb 9, 2012
  11. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    They've liberalised the market and introduced an online gambling regulatory system like other European nations (Italy, France, Denmark, Belgium etc etc)
     
  12. Feb 9, 2012
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    So, how come this caught JF on the hop, forcing them into an abrupt "panicky" overnight no-notice closure. Usually such rules become effective on a set date, known well in advance, and operators have to either comply by this date, or leave. Whatever the options, JF would have had loads of time to apply and be granted a license, or plan an exit from the market the day before. They did it properly when moving from MGS to Level 11, and again when level 11 pulled out altogether. Same with their handling of Royal Joker, but perhaps not so with their sale of Wild Jack, which Bryan STILL lists as a JF property some years later (so obviously was not informed through his official channels).

    Players do NOT like these abrupt overnight closures, it makes THEM "panicky" about whether other casinos they play at, no matter how well regarded, will do the same over another night.

    Will the same happen in the UK now that the government have decided to go with a similar model to that the rest of the EU seems to be adopting, which is secondary licensing in individual markets, with taxes assessed on players from those markets.

    UK players have previously had no government interference, and operators have not had to fear a crackdown simply for offering their services to UK players. This new regime changes this, as it raises tax for the UK treasury, and I can't see them ignoring operators who dodge this by operating into the UK from outside the EU, and relying on internet based advertising to get around the ban on advertising in UK based media, which will become a taxable privilege.

    UK players should beware of the nominal date this new law comes into force, as this is when operators may decide to comply, or ditch players with little or no notice.
     
  14. Feb 9, 2012
  15. Dipity

    Dipity Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Web Designer
    Location:
    UK
    This has been in the works for Spain since late last year, and was due to be implemented last month if I remember rightly (off the top of my head, cooking dinner so can't be arsed looking for the original thread I made, nor googling the date :p). However, the date was set back again.

    Other casinos have emailed me warning of the change, but have not been anywhere near as abrupt, most have just said that they will be closing access for Spanish players on xxxx date, or just warning that there will be some changes to Spanish players accounts.

    This email was a bit of a shock in how it was worded.
     
  16. Feb 9, 2012
  17. Dipity

    Dipity Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Web Designer
    Location:
    UK
    Just, lol. Just 6 hours after recieving the email I listed in the first post, I recieve this in my inbox:


    No, Charlie Burton, you WONT be seeing me there. You closed my account, remember?
     
  18. Feb 9, 2012
  19. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Word I have is that MGS is blocking Spanish IPs as of yesterday. The operators are only reacting to this move, so it's unfair to beat them up for it. I'm sure it's a surprise to them just like it is for you.

    Unless the operator has a license from the Spanish regulator, it's adios amigos.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Feb 9, 2012
  21. Dipity

    Dipity Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Web Designer
    Location:
    UK
    Yeah, see my 32 red post above, I just heard from them. Would've been nice if All Jackpots had been clearer though - the way they word the email is that it's them closing the account, not due to their hand being forced or anything, if you see what I mean!

    I've just spoken to live chat @ 32 red, and yes, it is Microgaming.
     
  22. Feb 9, 2012
  23. bsilva028

    bsilva028 Banned : multi-account fraudster PABnoaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    salesman
    Location:
    portugal
    im beginning to get worried, Portugal does many rules close to the spanish lately,

    hopefully i wait that the goverment dont remember to do the same thing here
     
  24. Feb 9, 2012
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    Why didn't MGS give operators advance warning of this implementation. It has made all MGS operators look bad as far as the Spanish player is concerned, and show the rest of us how little regard MGS have for their CUSTOMERS!

    MGS knew damn well this was in the works, and I doubt very much that they had their "hand forced" into making a decision like this at no notice. It would have taken some time to set up a block list covering Spanish IPs, and make it flexible enough to cater for those MGS casinos that have, or end up getting, a Spanish license.


    It is poor that players have to second guess when such moves are going to happen because the software provider wants absolute secrecy until the plug is pulled. Such moves are becoming widespread, and this is NOT merely an issue for the Spanish player to "suck up", it will end up affecting many of us in due course as our countries move towards a tighter regulatory framework.

    As players, we can no longer trust MGS and their operators to give us reasonable notice, which leaves us with two options. Carry on playing till the bitter end, or take it upon ourselves to uninstall, or even close our accounts, when it appears a date for change has been set. This will hurt operators pretty severely, as they will lose players long before they really have to. Had Spanish players followed this strategy, they would have quit long ago, and operators would not have had the benefit of their patronage at all this year.

    MGS seem to have used an arbitrary date, neither the original nor the new implementation date set by the Spanish government. Even if players were watching developments, and planning to quit of their own accord just before the date set, they would have been caught out yesterday.

    If MGS carry on with this policy, they will end up shutting down virtually every country in the world, even the UK. Long before this, they will see another mass exodus of operators who do not like to have their players arbitrarily shout out like this with them having to take the blame. Operators bailed out of MGS when the move to level 11 was announced, and those that trusted MGS and stayed with level 11 got burned along with their players when level 11 lost their nerve and pulled out almost overnight.

    Operators are now left with the chaos of sorting out half finished promotions, MPV tournaments, etc, which their Spanish players took part in. This is not simply a matter of sending players their cash balances, as many will want compensation for being arbitrarily thrown out mid way through contests. It will be even worse if this has happened to Spanish poker players using the MGS poker network who were in the middle of "big money" tournaments.


    How can a company such as MGS handle things so badly:confused:
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Feb 10, 2012
  27. Dipity

    Dipity Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Web Designer
    Location:
    UK
    It's funny you should say that...8pm tonight I recieved this from NordicBet - I dunno who they use as their poker software supplier but:

     
  28. Feb 10, 2012
  29. SAunnyS72

    SAunnyS72 On a Break

    Occupation:
    Entrepreneur
    Location:
    Australia
    I agree that they probably didn't even know till the last moment.... BUT... And this is the sad part ... Why wouldn't you send a nice email to your customers saying a big thank you for your patronage ... It takes only a few words and the same amount of time sending the mass email to the Spanish players...

    The truth is ( a bit harsh I know) .... Once they know they can't make anymore $$$$$ out of you ,you are rubbish to them.

    Unfortunately, that is terrible CS practice if you ask me because if the laws are changed in the future
    (which they are most of the time) ... Those same clients would consider you (casino) rubbish ..ha!

    I feel for you Dipity and I am sorry that you won't be able to play. I would go outa my brain if that was the case ... Is it all casinos across the board ?
     
  30. Feb 10, 2012
  31. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    They can treat you like trash and were rude in breaking the news to you the way they did yet your thread title was mild. Only a 'little' abrupt?
     
  32. Feb 10, 2012
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    So, this Spanish law comes in Midnight tonight for Poker, but not till the 1st March for casino games.


    In my opinion - BULLSHIT!

    It stinks of operators knowing well in advance, but rather than telling players in good time, which might lead them to quit right away, rather than play right up to the deadline, they leave it right to the last minute when they know the software supplier is about to pull the plug, and THEN tell them they are being thrown out.

    The same happened in some cases with US players, with operators knowing in advance that they had to ditch them, but in the mean time trying to squeeze every last dollar out of them by giving them no cause to believe they were about to be closed out until the bitter end. In many cases, US players went to bed knowing nothing, and woke up the next day with the deed done, and their money sealed behind an account block.

    It seems a mass exit from Spain is on the cards, and players are getting next to no notice, and the dates vary, and are not tied to any actual date of implementation of this law. Those casinos still accepting play from Spanish players are probably the ones who are holding off making an announcement till the last minute, but expect the plug to be pulled within days. It may even happen tonight without notice, following MGS's lead yesterday.

    Only those operations that already have a Spanish license are likely to stick around, along with all the rogue operators who have no intention of leaving any market just because regulation has been brought in, and who say "good luck to the authorities putting a stop to us". Spanish players need to be very careful about where they move their play to, and should start looking now, closing out accounts likely to be pulled in their own time, rather than being forced out by the operator.

    I expect the same will happen in other countries that set specific laws for regulation via the need for secondary licensing. The good casinos will bail in the nick of time, and the rogues will have "party time" whilst licenses are applied for and granted, and reputable operators enter the market again under the new regime.
     
  34. Feb 10, 2012
  35. SAunnyS72

    SAunnyS72 On a Break

    Occupation:
    Entrepreneur
    Location:
    Australia
    Crazy scenario ... But... What happens if the accounts close at 12am... You get a feature at 11:50 pm... Win a truckload... But the feature just finishes at 12:01 ... Do you still get paid ? ... How does withdrawals work once your account is closed ???
     
  36. Feb 10, 2012
  37. max1mike

    max1mike Dormant account

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    USA
    sorry spain. welcome to the U.S.:mad:
     
  38. Feb 10, 2012
  39. footdr

    footdr Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules

    Occupation:
    management
    Location:
    cyberspace
    And......

    Don't you hate it when you get emails offering bonuses from casinos that don't allow your country to play, so you waste your time attempting to download for nothing. Or offers from casinos you already have an account at and after downloading the casino you find the offer was for new players only? (That is a sure way for me to decide not to play there again)

    How about when you get snail mail offers with CD enclosed and the offer seems to be for you and then you download the disc and try to claim the bonus only to find it is only for new players, they knew you had an account so I think this trickery to get you to make a deposit.
     

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