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A Concern

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by meditek, Jan 16, 2006.

    Jan 16, 2006
  1. meditek

    meditek Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    UK
    Hi All,

    Yep, I'm a newbie wimp to online Casinos but have been a card player all my life. I have concerns. I joined Pharaoh's Casino a couple of weeks ago to play single deck Blackjack. I started with around $70 (OK chicken feed to you guys!) and it is now $140. I use conventional play and bet 1,3,2,6 but...

    1. the house is about 2/1 minimum on me blackjacks.

    2. most times the house busts me with a 10 if I hit between 12/16 but, when it is in that situation it rarely gets a 10.

    3. The number of times my first card is a 4 is way beyond chance.

    The cards I get compared with the house just don't seem real. I'm fully aware that this is a whinge and that, in real life, this happens from time to time. Anyway I need to know :-

    1. whether there is an independant organisation that checks out the software?

    2.whether the software HAS be given to anyone that asks for it?

    3. If not, how does one know whether the software can adapt itself to your winnings?

    Sorry if anybody feels upset about this. I realise gamblers can get paranoid but I just need COMPLETE reassurance that online gambling isn't fixed over and above natural chance.

    Thanks for listening.
     
  2. Jan 16, 2006
  3. Ivy29

    Ivy29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Internet Time Waster
    Location:
    Midwest
    Random?

    I can't answer that concern about the randomness...I just assume it is.

    My advice is, if you feel something is fishy, cashout. Especially since you doubled your money, which kind of negates the idea that its not fair. In any case, if you are feeling suspicious, it probably isn't as much fun anyway.
     
  4. Jan 16, 2006
  5. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Hey Meditek!! First of all, kudos on starting with $70 and still having $140 two weeks later!! You either don't play much, or you've been up and down alot.

    As for whether online gaming is fixed? Myself, I say no. But I think you will find some people who will insist that it is fixed, rigged, whatever. If I truly believed that, I would no longer play.

    As to a governing agency...not sure what software Pharaoh's Casino is? Or if and where they are licenced? I am sure that other more knowledgeable posters can give you some feedback.
     
  6. Jan 16, 2006
  7. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Boss Media.
     
  8. Jan 17, 2006
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Not Alone

    You are not alone in this feeling! There are many postings discussing whether software is rigged. For the most part there is no real long term evidence to support this, HOWEVER, there have been instances of dodgy software appearing on the scene. This can simply be a case of "What you see is not what you are really playing". This is the case where a casino might have a Video Poker machine with a progressive jackpot. It might be designed to prevent the natural deal of, or exchange to, a Royal Flush to prevent the progressive being won too often.
    Other software, such as Gaming Mastery and Wager 21, has proven to be "A bit dodgy" in the past. Such abuses of trust do nothing for advancing the idea that the software is genuine at other places.
    Boss Media should be OK though. I have played at one and have seen long streaks where the dealer wins repeatedly, however the house edge prevails in the long term. My experience with Gaming Mastery showed me what really "bent" blackjack plays like. Despite bonus being released at a rate of 2.5% on a blackjack game with a theoretical edge of less than 1%, it was impossible to so much as get ahead (including released bonus!), let alone win!!

    This was clearly blackjack where the cards were NOT dealt naturally, but rather to emulate an already predetermined outcome; a Blackjack Slot in effect.
     
  10. Jan 17, 2006
  11. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Meditek, if you have not already discovered it you might also find the content at the Wizard of Odds site of value and interest - Mike Shackleford is pretty much recognised as an expert in the area of gambling math.
     
  12. Jan 17, 2006
  13. meditek

    meditek Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the info. I have read up on The Wizard of Odds site and use his methods. In single deck BJ the cards are 'shuffled' each hand. I have yet to discover whether if you 'exit' the software and return you start with a 'new' pack. I have the feeling you don't.

    I wound my $70 up to $200 over a period of about 10 days. I never had any dramatic runs of luck except that when I first started to play I always seemed to win most of the first 10-15 hands so that after a couple of hours I'd still be $10-$12 up.

    However, the moment I hit $200 the balance of the cards changed. It is as if they are no longer 'shuffled' but 'rearranged'. The only hands I win (mostly) are when I bet $1 so, despite using the 1,3,2,6 system I am still going downhill. Incidently, I'd be interested in the odds of never pulling a 10 when you double on 11 but nearly always get a 10 when you hit on 12+. In all the many times I've doubled on 11 I think I have only once pulled a 10!

    It would be a lot easier to explain all this if I could somehow extract (non-manually) the history of my games and analyse the data for you in Excel. My feeling is that the data would show that chance is being interfered with. Either way, after playing the game that gives you the best chance of 'not losing too quickly' I am going to follow my instincts and leave online casinos off my agenda in future.
     
  14. Jan 17, 2006
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Boss Casinos.

    There have been earlier concerns about this trend of Boss Media blackjack seeming always to bust a player on a 12, it has happened to me too! In the long term though, you have done well getting $70 up to $200.
    The best bet is to take your time, and if you feel that some sort of "glass ceiling" has been imposed then change games, or leave the casino alone for a few days.
    Until the mathematical algorithms are open to scrutiny, there will always be the suggestion that some kind of control is layered onto the RNG output that can cause these types of events. In the long term of course, you will lose to the house edge, so quitting while $130 up is a good idea if you feel uneasy about playing online.
     
  16. Jan 17, 2006
  17. meditek

    meditek Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    UK
    I have removed my money. Remains to be seen whether I ever receive it. I wonder whether it is standard practice to allow new users a couple of hundred bucks before taking them to the cleaners.

    Frankly, after my experience, I am amazed that so many people put their trust in software that has no controls. If I was designing software for these people I would :-

    a) ensure that the punter initially felt he was beating the system - the feel good factor. Say 5% to the punter.

    b) determine a programmable limit before the software switches back to the Casinos favor. Say $200. The Casino would then take 6% in it's favor.

    c) make the changeover from +5 to -6 fuzzy so the punter doesn't notice an immediate change.

    d) once the punter had lost say 20% of his pool the software would give him say 4% for a while etc etc.

    e) the software would ensure, in the final analysis, that the house gets something approaching the true odds of single deck blackjack but not before it has pulled a frustrated and unwary punter into changing his betting system and losing far more than he intended.

    f) to do this successfully would require that the software analyses the amount bet and the punters pool of cash. The best software would do all this and appear natural. Software, like Boss, maybe not. Only the software can change the dealers hidden card before it is revealed and I'm damn sure it does!!!

    OK, rant over. The ONLY way of policing these wise guys is for legistlation that allows an FBI agent to view the pack before it is dealt. Unfortunatly, most gamblers never seem to get real to the fact that :-

    "The joy of winning is nothing so satisfying as the misery of losing."
     
  18. Jan 17, 2006
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Hey

    Ever thought of a job programming for UK Fruit Machines!:D
     
  20. Jan 18, 2006
  21. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Meditek, I share all your concerns.

    I have long been of the opinion that Boss Media single deck blackjack is rigged, based on my own experience.

    Add that gut feeling to the facts:

    The maximum bet is $500.

    The player edge is 0.15%

    Spare me the "variance" malarky; you deal an honest game like that, with those maximums, and the casino goes down - because they'll get taken apart by big players, playing on big bankrolls in tandem, that can handle $500 bets easily, at a $200 per hour win rate.

    The sums DO NOT add up.

    Even at $100 flat that's $40 per hour.

    I had this discussion with Ken Smith (blackjackinfo.com) and he insisted that variance would be enough to protect the casino. Sorry Ken, off base: the only casino that can support this kind of a game is a fixed casino.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Jan 18, 2006
  23. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    Caruso

    Which Boss casinos are still offering the player edge single deck Blackjack?

    I am keen to know for the reasons you have articulated!

    Mitch
     
  24. Jan 19, 2006
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Depends

    Boss Media casinos do not have the Autoplay that MG has on Blackjack. They expect that mistakes will erode the edge, however, players with the bankroll and right discipline should still be able to take down a Boss Casino. Likey such players will be hit with the "advantage player" term and quietly got rid of. A 0.15% player edge will be even greater if the various comps and bonuses are factored in, in fact, it makes me want to log on to my only Boss casino and take a closer look....
     
  26. Jan 21, 2006
  27. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    Anything on this Caruso?

    Mitch
     
  28. Jan 21, 2006
  29. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    You don't get comp points for single deck blackjack, and it does not count for the WR or is completely excluded from promotions.
     
  30. Jan 21, 2006
  31. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I don't have it

    I don't appear to have it anyway, so no need to add it into exclusions T & C!
     

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