9-Months Later

[bryand]

In light of the many spirited debates in this forum prior to the November presidential election, after 9 months of complete democrat majority, I wonder:

Are we more or less safe from terrorism?

Have we "made friends" with Iran and North Korea

Are we more or less prosperous as a nation?

Is unemployment higher or lower?

Is our government more transparent?

Are we moving toward capitalism or socialism?

Is our health care system any better?

Is the national debt higher or lower?

Is the national deficit higher or lower?

Has the relative value of the US dollar increased or decreased?

Do we have more or less troops in the Middle East?

@Casinomeister: Are we any closer to legal online gambling?

@Robwin: Have any "UFO files" been declassified?

 

[DaftDog]

Give the Guy a break

In light of the many spirited debates in this forum prior to the November presidential election, after 9 months of complete democrat majority, I wonder:

Are we more or less safe from terrorism?

Have we "made friends" with Iran and North Korea

Are we more or less prosperous as a nation?

Is unemployment higher or lower?

Is our government more transparent?

Are we moving toward capitalism or socialism?

Is our health care system any better?

Is the national debt higher or lower?

Is the national deficit higher or lower?

Has the relative value of the US dollar increased or decreased?

Do we have more or less troops in the Middle East?

@Casinomeister: Are we any closer to legal online gambling?

@Robwin: Have any "UFO files" been declassified?

Difficult questions to ask just as the worst depression since the "Great Depression" seems to be bottoming out.

Maybe you should rather ask "Would the Texas Cowboy have made things better than they are now?" I'm sure the resounding answer would be "Hell no."

 

[rockycatt]

Difficult questions to ask just as the worst depression since the "Great Depression" seems to be bottoming out.

Maybe you should rather ask "Would the Texas Cowboy have made things better than they are now?" I'm sure the resounding answer would be "Hell no."

why did dick cheany not report shooting his hunting buddy were they drunk

 

[lots0]

My question would be why George Bush and Dick Cheney are not in jail.

After all Dick and George ignored the Constitution, broke laws, lied to get us in a War, (a War that directly led to the current financial meltdown), illegally spyed on American Citizens, kidnapped and tortured people... and thats just off the top of my head.

So far President Obama has done what he said he would do... And that is a hell of a lot better than George Bush ever did...

 

[LaurieJim]

In light of the many spirited debates in this forum prior to the November presidential election, after 9 months of complete democrat majority, I wonder:

Are we more or less safe from terrorism?....less

Have we "made friends" with Iran and North Korea..........hope not

Are we more or less prosperous as a nation?................less

Is unemployment higher or lower?...................higher

Is our government more transparent?............nope

Are we moving toward capitalism or socialism?........ or worse

Is our health care system any better?.......nope

Is the national debt higher or lower?...........duh..............higher

Is the national deficit higher or lower?...see above

Has the relative value of the US dollar increased or decreased?...........decreased

Do we have more or less troops in the Middle East?........ about the same

@Casinomeister: Are we any closer to legal online gambling?...........

@Robwin: Have any "UFO files" been declassified?.........see above

 

[GrandMaster]

Let's concentrate on the questions which can be answered objectively, and let's also consider what happened under GW Bush's and Clinton's presidencies.

Are we more or less prosperous as a nation?
GDP grew under Bush (but it grew a lot more under Clinton), the current decline started in Q1 of 2008, still under Bush.

Is unemployment higher or lower?
Unemployment decreased steadily under Clinton, increased from 2001 to 2004, decreased from 2004 to 2007, and has been increasing since then.

Is the national debt higher or lower?
US national debt as a percentage of GDP decreased under Clinton, started increasing as soon as Bush took office, and really took off in 2007. (The biggest increase in recent time occurred while the great conservative, Ronald Reagan, was president.) In nominal terms the deficit has been increasing for a very long time.

Is the national deficit higher or lower?
There were a few years with budget surplus under Clinton, the deficit increased quickly under Bush to its relative stable level between 2003 and 2007, and then it doubled in 2008.

Has the relative value of the US dollar increased or decreased?
The value of the US dollar increased under Clinton, dropped under Bush, also decreased under Obama, but nothing beyond the normal fluctuations.

 

[bryand]

My question would be why George Bush and Dick Cheney are not in jail.

After all Dick and George ignored the Constitution, broke laws, lied to get us in a War, (a War that directly led to the current financial meltdown), illegally spyed on American Citizens, kidnapped and tortured people... and thats just off the top of my head.

So far President Obama has done what he said he would do... And that is a hell of a lot better than George Bush ever did...

Wow, I don't know where to start. That statement alone tells me no amount of truth will convince the blind.

 

[jod5413]

Kudos to GrandMaster!

The facts, simply the facts!

What a novel idea.

 

[lots0]

Wow, I don't know where to start. That statement alone tells me no amount of truth will convince the blind.

I don't agree with your politics... But I don't think your "blind" or anything else that term congers up.

Instead of just vomiting out Faux News, Beck and Hannity talking points... why not actually discuss the issues?

Just what has President Obama said he would do that he has not done?
Just name me one thing... just one.

While on the other hand... we have the Bush boy making statements like... "We will not Nation Build under my watch" and his father "" Remember the "Read my lips, no new taxes."?

Bush also said he would get Ben Lauden... He never even came close.
The swaggering Texan(who was actually born and raised in Connecticut) and his oil buddies made us all the laughing stock of the World.

Oh ya... remember the hundreds of statements from Bush about the 'Wepons' of mass destruction that Iraq had... And how the Iraqis were going to welcome us with open arms and flowers...

I will never forget the SEVEN minutes Bush sat in that school holding that kids book... not knowing what to do, after he was told our Nation was under attack... Thank God we were not really under a real military attack or we'd all be dead...

The Bank Bail out was also Bush's baby... he gave the Banks Trillions of OUR tax dollars so the Banks could loan us back our own money at 20% interest...

Now I'm waiting for that list of promises from President Obama that you say have not been kept...

 

[bryand]

I believe he campaigned on ending the war in Iraq very quickly although he has asked congress to approve more troops. You said just one.......

 

[lots0]

I believe he campaigned on ending the war in Iraq very quickly although he has asked congress to approve more troops. You said just one.......

Actually President Obama promised a 16 month time frame from the day he was elected to remove all US troops from Iraq.

From President Obama's web site

Barack Obama will work with military commanders on the ground in Iraq and in consultation with the Iraqi government to end the war safely and responsibly within 16 months.

source:

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Here is an article from the NYT that also lays out President Obama's plan to remove all US troops from Iraq within 16 months of his election.
www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/us/politics/22prexy.html

President Obama has NOT requested more troops for Iraq...
He has requested more troops for Afghanistan. Actually he is moving troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. President Obama has always considered Afghanistan the central battle on Terrorism.
Link Outdated / Removed

Afghanistan is the central battle on Terrorism. Unlike Iraq.

I think we all know now that the war in Iraq was only fought so that Dick Cheney's company Haliburton could get their hands on the Iraqi oil. There were never any terrorists in Iraq that attacked the US, until we invaded their country.

According to the White House the 16 month time table to remove troops from Iraq is on schedule.

President Obama has NOT broken his promise to the American people to withdraw our troops from Iraq within 16 months of his taking office... remember the title of this thread... it has only been 9 months.

Still looking for one single promise that President Obama has broken...

By the by.. if you want some real un-biased news and not political spin and political lies you might want to check out the BBC. The BBC has no dog in this fight and their reporting is so much better than any US News agency... especially those lying bastards on Fox.

 

[4 of a kind]

All I would like to say here is that 9 months have lapsed, and liberal left's believe it's still Georges fault.

By the way George did suck and did much damage to this nation. But Obama's first real job in life (exclude two years as a senator) is president of the United States. He belongs in Hollywood, and has no idea what's going on.

Obama will be gone in fours years, but his policy's are going to be around much longer. I pity my children and their children.

This list of questions should be asked after two years.

 

[LaurieJim]

Do i trust him after 9 long months? ................Do i sleep better at night knowing he is at the helm ?.............Do i trust him with guiding this nation on the right main path and not taking us down a Socialist path?.............NOPE!!!!!!!!

How many of these CZARS do we have now and how come none have been vetted?

Whats the story behind him and ACORN ? Have you checked out the Pimp and Ho's videos, bet you wont see them on ABC, NBC, or CBS, if so its given no coverage or little at best.

The news media is biased and untrust worthy imo, it just sickens me to see this country so torn apart.............The American can do spirit is dying, right before our very eyes...............What will you do to try to help revive it, breath some life back into it?

I will do mine, voice my opinions, stand up for my rights as the Constitution grants me as an AMERICAN.................Laurie

 

[lots0]

All I hear are some emotional rants that seem to be brought about by the misinformation that seems to abound lately.

Do i trust him with guiding this nation on the right main path and not taking us down a Socialist path?.............NOPE!!!!!!!!

Exactly how is President Obama leading us down the path to socialism? I really would like to know why you think this. Are you just repeating what you heard on Faux News or do you have some facts to back this opinion up?

Please don't tell me you are one of those folks that say you don't want Government involved in your health care and are on Medicare... and you don't want Socialism in the USA and are receiving Social Security benefits.

FYI - Medicare is a socialist government program, so is Social Security.
The laws that regulate the Public Utilities and Unemployment Benefits are also socialist.

Long before President Obama took office the Nation was already a big part socialist.

It seems to me that if you don't want Socialism in the US you should not take benefits from the Socialist Programs we already have in place (Medicare/Medicade, Social Security and Unemployment Benefits) and advocate doing away with all those 'nasty' socialist programs that help people...

Don't be fooled... The right wing is using the term "socialism" as a scare tactic.. We in the good old USA have already been enjoying a few benefits from Socialism for many many years now.

***

The Acorn thing is Ridiculous...
Every big organization has a few bad apples. The idea that one or two right wing political hacks have latched on to this non-story and are condemning an entire organization for the actions of just a couple of low level employees is like saying all Republicans are Bathroom cruising Homosexuals because of Larry Craig or that all Republicans cheat on their wives because of Mark Sanford or that all Democrats are on the take because of Rod Blagojevich. It just does not make any sense.
Besides after years and years of the right wing investigating ACORN and trying to destroy the organization... this is the best they could come up with... Like I said... Ridiculous... and that is why you don't see this ridiculously stupid story being repeatedly hammered on any real news outlets.

Still waiting to hear about one single promise that President Obama has broken...

Added... When it comes to ANY politico, including President Obama... I take the position of... "Trust but Verify", a position that Ronald Reagan made famous.

 

[4 of a kind]

All I hear are some emotional rants that seem to be brought about by the misinformation that seems to abound lately.***

The Acorn thing is Ridiculous...

I had to laugh today reading in the paper about this ACORN sting. One of the claims by ACORN, was that the audio being heard of the ACORN rep. during the interview was dubbed into the video. I immediately thought of your response to the John Murtha video in another thread. As soon as something is uncovered you sound like a cheating husband in denial. Here is a quote from today's paper in N.Y. and the paper is actually a liberal rag.

The Senate voted on Monday to bar any new federal money for ACORN the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. They are now pressing President Barack Obama to use his executive authority to extend the ban to all federal agencies.ACORN's standing has plummeted so far that even Democratic liberals like Sens. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) backed the ACORN-defunding amendment. Only seven Senate Democrats voted against it.

On another note I'd like to tell you that of course I didn't vote for Obama. But would like to add that after he did in fact win I was thinking, you know maybe this isn't a bad thing. This country certainly needs a serious change and maybe this guy could get it done. In addition I was proud our country has moved on and was able to show the rest of the world that race doesn't matter. I also would like to note that I really don't care if Kadafy was president, as long as things were done right for us and our children s future.

Yet, from what I could see up to this point, Obama just puts together and delivers great speeches filled with nothing more then utopias. (an ideal place or state. any visionary system of political or social perfection.)


When confronted with clear definition for example on how to finance his health care program, he pretty much talks out of his ass, because the fact is he don't even know for sure. He responds with answers that just are virtually impossible, as if he actually knows. Then when confronted for more serious answers the left play the race card. Even the asshole Jimmy Carter today had the balls to announce, that anyone that does not agree with Obama's health plan and is not black, will be considered a racist. Instead of listening to debate and try to hopefully maybe figure something out that might work, nope you're just a racist. And pretty much saying with or without you we're rushing this thing through for approval. How fn stupid are you people? Do you people pay any attention to what some of these people are saying? (Boxer, Murtha, Polosi, etc.) Great you finally got into the White House, with the majority, but for crying out loud do you at least understand what they are saying? Or just because their democrats everything is just yes yes yes???? Don't you even realize that Obama is rushing all kind of crap down our throats this year. Next year at this time his policy pushing is pretty much over. He won't be able to force anything else through since the campaign begins for 2012. Do you even realize what took place so far? (bailouts, auto industry, banks, wall street, now health care) Slow down there big boy. The pyramids weren't built in 9 months.


Although I'm a conservative, I recognize an asshole regardless if he's a Dem. or a Rep. And god knows there are plenty of them on both sides.

Another thing you keep bringing up is FOX News. You got all the rest of the media in the country in your camp. Why are you always worried about our tiny one little Fox news?

On a closing note I'd like to mention I'm heading into my senior years. My life is completely organized, and secured. My children are fortunate enough to have a head start when compared to most and more unfortunate children. No matter what Obama or anyone after him do, it won't effect me in a big way. But I still listen and show great concern only for the sake of my children's future.

If the people really controlled our government this country would be much better then it presently became.

 

[lots0]

On another note I'd like to tell you that of course I didn't vote for Obama.

Neither did I. I am proud to say I voted for Ron Paul.

What I find funny is that many folks that watch Faux seem to think anyone that disagrees with them is liberal and their enemy... Just for the record I'm not a liberal or a conservative for that matter...

One other thing that I am NOT is a "you people"(a veiled insult?).

What I am is an American and that is the BEST fucking thing to be.

***

The Acorn thing is still stupid and totally BS politics in my opinion and obviously most Americans share my opinion or this stupid Acorn story would be getting pounded in all the other news media.

***

I wouldn't care one way or the other about Faux news...if they told the truth.. But they don't, they lie and twist things in order to drive a hateful wedge between Americans.

Most all of this political hate and discontent we have seen lately has been driven by the lies and misinformation put out by Faux news. Faux is driving our country to violence with their misinformation and their fascist political agenda... mark my words.

I believe the people at Faux are trying to destroy the America we all know and love... What is scary is that they seem to be doing a perdy good job of it so far.

Don't ever forget that Faux is NOT owned or ran by an American... it is owned and ran by a man born in Australia but who claims no country, Rupert Murdoch (by the way - I Love Oz and most all of the Aussies). However, Rupert M. hates America and would love nothing better than to see America run by a Religious Fascist Dictatorship, Rupert has said so himself on many occasions.

I don't understand how we can let someone who is not an American and that hates America, run a media empire in America... it is beyond stupid... it's like giving a knife to psycho killer and then turning your back him...

I'll bet right now Osama bin Laden is kicking himself for not buying news papers, radio stations and TV stations in America when he had the chance...

 

[LaurieJim]

4 of A Kind, Lots0 is a fine debater and we almost never see eye to eye on political veiws, but i do respect his opinions as well as i hope he does ours and yes Lots0 , i watch FOX news and i really have alot of respect for folks like Glen Beck and Hannity, i do think they are fair and un biased as far as reporting the facts.

I cant watch the other networks as all they do is show one side of an issue, now thats not fair reporting, i dont trust the mass media as well as those now seated in Washington, but i dont think alot of those will be returning in 2010, hope they are not getting to comfy in their chairs..............laurie

 

[lots0]

and yes Lots0 , i watch FOX news and i really have alot of respect for folks like Glen Beck and Hannity, i do think they are fair and un biased as far as reporting the facts.

Watch the video... it may just open your eyes a little.

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Yes I do respect others opinion. But I can respect them and believe they are wrong at the same time.

 

[footdr]

Per Obama and Dem. anyone opposing is a liar or ......

trying to derail their agenda. I have heard enough. I have never, ever, seen the likes of this Administration. I worked in both Private and Veterans Administration Hospital systems for over 20 years in the capacity of Medical Information Management; and, my Husband is a doctor and I managed his offices for 17 years. I believe that makes me more knowledgable of the way the Medicare and Private Insurance programs work. There are too many problems with H.R. 2300 to type here. The Senate Finance Committees Mark-up fails to address any specifics, just as do the other Mark-ups. For those that don't know, the AMA does not represent the majority of Doctors and Surgeons currently practicing; yet, they have been the only Medical Association invited to most hearings and most recently the Democratic Congress Steering Committee held recently on Health Care. This Committee appears to be trying to work-out the problems with H.R. 2300 but so far they are not asking all the right people for input. Medicare has been mismanaged for years. The red tape imposed on doctors and hospitals is one cause that office expenses for physicians has doubled over the past 10 years. The Fed. Gov. is a big part of what is wrong with the Medicare system and people trust them to have further involvement? Just has Obama has failed to change the way Government functions, stop the bickering in Congress, stop the wasted spending; he will fail at this also as he doesn't have a clue.

 

[lots0]

HR 2300 is dead and has been dead for some time... just the folks at faux wouldn't let it die.

The Senate Plan written by Senator Max Baucus that was released today is now considered to be the building block of President Obama's plan. The key word here is "Building Block" this is not the end of it, there will be changes as people make themselves heard.

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footdr, instead of trying to stop any changes (do you really think our current system is all that great?) maybe you should consider trying to be part of the solution. With all your experience I am sure your congress person, senators and even the President would be happy to hear your suggestions on how we could improve the system.

After all this is supposed to be all about making things better for everyone.

 

[footdr]

Don't misunderstand me

There a some good provisions that will reform Health Insurance in a way that has been needed for a long, long time. It is just that as written now H.R. 2300 will not improve the system at it seeks to, per the President. And, if they base reimbursements to health care providers on Medicare reimbursement rates, there will be few Doctors that will be able to either accept patients insured under Medicare and the Public Plan, Pelosi supports or for that matter, afford to stay in private practice. Doctors and Hospitals are not the cause of the crisis, it is the fact that Government has failed to regulate Insurance Companies as they have the Utilities and other monopolies. They should start there and also with correcting the mismanagement of the Medicare and Veterans Administration systems, both which they waste way too much of our tax dollars on through repeat testing, fraud, poor claims administration and the like.

Believe me, I have contacted everyone I can to express my point of view.

 

[footdr]

Point of interest...

did you know that health care providers treating Veterans at the V.A. cannot be sued for malpractice. Why? Way to may malpractice suits are settled out of court by ins. co. because it is cheaper and believe it or not physicians have a hard time Making them take their case to court. It happened only one in 24 years to my Husband and I had him keep insisting it go to trial as I read the patients record and per the info he gave me I felt he couldn't be found guilty, and he wasn't. The jury ruled in his favor. If more companies would fight frivolous cases lawyers wouldn't be so likely to take cases that have no merit simply hoping the insurance will settle out of court and they will get 33-50% of the settlement for doing basically nothing more than filing the case and taking depositions. It is quite the racket. Patients who have been treated incorrectly should be compensated. The system should not be used to make a quick buck.

Forgot to say that Veterans and Military cannot sue their doctor but instead they can "sue the Federal Government". I say good luck to that. Funny how the Government doesn't follow the same laws imposed on private entities.

 

[lots0]

ya I know.. I'm one of those people that can't get insurance... it's those damn preexisting conditions and the fact I am self employed.

I had to have an ambulance called for me a while back.. the bill just for the Ambulance ride that took less than 5 minutes cost me $3700.00... I had to pay them they saved my life... but $3700... WTF!

I don't even want to think about how much the Hospital Emergency Room and Dr. cost me..

This Health Care system reform will be too late to help me... But I'll be damned if I keep quiet and let my grandchild have to live with this kind of a system.

Doing nothing about Health Care is NOT an option!

 

[footdr]

I agree....

preexisting clauses, cap on private insurers profit margins are two of the best reforms we can make. Some employer group plans, such as ours, has no prexisting clause, but most do. As I said, Private insurers have needed regulation for a very long time. They have been ripping off the insureds, hospitals and doctors.

My son just had a tonsilectomy and our insurance paid the doctor 220.00. What a bunch of crap, that payment includes his follow-up care for 90 days. Good lord, I paid a plumber on a Sunday 600.00 for a broken pipe. Cost more on Sundays. Funny how a Surgeon is paid less when the life of my Son is in his hands, then a plumber fixing a broken pipe, which took him all of 1/2 hr.

 

[lots0]

cap on private insurers profit margins...

That ain't never gonna happen in this country as long as a majority of Senators (on both sides) are getting their pockets filled with cash by the insurance companies.