888 Thriller Promo

[Nifty29]

Thank you Nifty, always good to get feedback from folk but you just sound suspiciously similar to (the now discredited) ecogra. In my view the TorC has yet to be written which could legitimise my experience with 888. I refer you back to my earlier explanatory post.

Could you please direct me to where ecogra has been discredited (by someone other than an aggrieved player)?

I also object to you intimating that I am also similarly discredited. The fact that I work for them has no bearing on my personal opinions in public fora.

The main problem here is that the term that caused your issues was stated clearly in black and white, and you agreed to it. Whether you read said terms or not is immaterial as ignorance is not a defence. In essence, what you're really saying is that if a player signs up to a casino and/or promotion, they can decide which terms they will be held to and the casino should accept that decision and pay out accordingly e.g you take up a slots only bonus, use it to win $10k at blackjack, and insist the casino pay because you thought being restricted to just slots made it too hard to win so you decided to play BJ instead. It's silly and unreasonable, right? Well the slots only term was clearly listed and you accepted the term by taking the offer.....just like your actual case I.e. clearly listed.

Whether the term itself is stupid or not is not the issue.....it is AN issue, but not THE issue. I personally think it is stupid, but I'd expect that from 888, and given how well-informed you seem to be, I reckon you knew their reputation for denying bonuses to some degree, but the offer was juicy enough to take the extra risk (IMO).

You, and others, had every opportunity to avoid being subjected to these awful terms by making yourselves aware of them and not playing in the first place. The fact that you did neither does not, IMO, mean that I should feel sorry for you, nor does it mean that we should expect 888 to make exceptions for some players as a result.

 

[mickeywynne]

plangston - you have mail

Please sign me up for your 888 action

There is an eCogra employee posting here. Perhaps they can fill in some of the answers to your (unanswered) questions to Tex Rees.

The highlighting of your request for more victims to sign up is my work. Hope you do not mind - and look forward to hearing from you

Michael

I've tried going down the ecogra route with no success. To begin with I had a fairly dismissive response from Tex Rees quoting from 888 T&Cs highlighting this particular passage:

“In the interests of fair play on our Sites it is prohibited to utilise any recognised betting techniques to circumvent the standard house edge in our games. This includes (but is not limited to) any attempts at card counting. If the game play on your account indicates that you are using such betting techniques we shall immediately block the account and retain any funds in said account.”

and informing me that:

“we are confident that the operator has acted according to their Terms and Conditions and as such I must inform you that we find your dispute to be invalid.”

In a follow-up call when I was trying to find out what I was supposed to have done wrong, Tex told me she couldn’t disclose the details of what I had done wrong because:

“if players understand how these patterns are figured out they (888) can’t fight against them” – my emphasis

All this gave me the impression that ecogra were “owned” by 888 so I responded with this email:

“Hi Tex

I must confess to being disappointed, though not surprised, by your findings.

I had hoped mediation might help me, and 888, avoid more expensive and messy civil proceedings. To this end may I please ask you now to pass to an independent mediator the supposed evidence from 888 that convinces you they acted lawfully in enticing me into substantial (and loss-making) wagering for a bonus they subsequently failed to pay.

You have suggested that disclosing 888’s case against me could damage the casino industry! This is risible. I am not a card counter. There was no “system” behind the way I lost all that money wagering for 888’s promised Thriller bonus. I never breached the Terms and Conditions of the 888 Thriller offer. 888 clearly did breach their own Terms and Conditions by wrongfully withholding their promised bonus.

But, if you are not happy with passing my game-play records to an independent mediator then please may I ask you to pass this so-called “evidence”, that you rely on for your opinion, to my solicitors. I am sure they will be willing to supply you with an undertaking not to use the supposedly “confidential” information to the detriment of the on-line gaming industry. (I shall be using a Gibraltar-based legal firm as my English solicitors advise this is necessary for jurisdictional reasons.)

For the record can you please confirm that the reason you cannot tell me anything about 888’s rejection of my claim is because 888 will not grant you permission?

Likewise, for the record, can you please confirm that 888 was one of the founders of the supposedly-independent eCOGRA organisation.

Please may I also ask you to confirm that the former 888 chief executive, John Anderson – who continues to serve as a director of 888 Holdings – is also a director of eCOGRA.

I am assuming your eCOGRA case file is now closed on my claim for that wrongfully withheld 888 bonus. So, unless you state otherwise, I shall proceed on the basis that the non-disclosure/no-publicity agreement I entered into at the start of our “mediation” process is now over.

Regards”

Well, I never got a reply to that email.

This was a couple of month ago. Since then I have tried to keep up a regular dialogue with Tex but she is usually unavailable to take my call/answer my email. I did manage to get through today though. Asked why ecogra were unable to tell me exactly what was my breach of 888 T&Cs, she said that:

​

“eCogra is unable to release information if the casino feels it will affect their security"

She then advised me:
“when a player is not happy with the outcome of ecogra’s attempts to mediate they can only suggest that the player approach the local authority in Gibraltar and request a review”

So, it seems like it’s the end of the line for ecogra and me. I think it’s telling that 888 feel so threatened by their punters that they need to “fight against them”. If that’s the case then they’re not fit to operate a casino and if ecogra are so obviously in their pocket then they’re not fit to offer what they claim is a “mediation service”

I am also concerned by the similarity between ecogra's reply to ososurrey and their reply to me. It looks like a cut and paste job. Rather as if ecogra are simply putting an official rubber stamp onto whatever 888 tries to get away with. There is no evidence of any detailed investigation by ecogra (or even of the most cursory checking of facts) before they reached their finding.

If any other 888 victims with a similar experience to mine are interested in joining with me in presenting a case for review to the Gibraltar Regulatory Authority then please message me.

 

[mickeywynne]

two-faced or blind?

Good morning Nifty

eCogra is entirely funded by the gaming industry and invariably, with large claims, finds in favour of the gaming industry. Jesus H, you work for them so I do not need to teach you how to suck eggs.

He who pays the piper, etc ....

But, even by the standards of eCogra, you are either greatly disingenous or highly confused as to how on-line casinos set their Terms and Conditions.

In your post you say ... Well the slots only term was clearly listed


That is total b**l**it.

I wagered about £240,000 to qualify for that November Thriller bonus and, unsurprisingly, I did read the terms and conditions very carefully.

To qualify for a selection of prizes at the end of the month High Roller members were invited to wager a minimum of £200,000 during the month at any game. There were also depositing requirements - a minimum level of £16,000 of deposits was required. I complied faithfully (and in good faith) with all the advertised requirements. Just after the month end I received an email from 888 asking me to select my prize. I chose the £3,000 cash bonus. They replied by saying I was banned. They have yet to state why. Same as plangston I guess.

Could you please direct me to where ecogra has been discredited (by someone other than an aggrieved player)?

I also object to you intimating that I am also similarly discredited. The fact that I work for them has no bearing on my personal opinions in public fora.

The main problem here is that the term that caused your issues was stated clearly in black and white, and you agreed to it. Whether you read said terms or not is immaterial as ignorance is not a defence. In essence, what you're really saying is that if a player signs up to a casino and/or promotion, they can decide which terms they will be held to and the casino should accept that decision and pay out accordingly e.g you take up a slots only bonus, use it to win $10k at blackjack, and insist the casino pay because you thought being restricted to just slots made it too hard to win so you decided to play BJ instead. It's silly and unreasonable, right? Well the slots only term was clearly listed and you accepted the term by taking the offer.....just like your actual case I.e. clearly listed.

Whether the term itself is stupid or not is not the issue.....it is AN issue, but not THE issue. I personally think it is stupid, but I'd expect that from 888, and given how well-informed you seem to be, I reckon you knew their reputation for denying bonuses to some degree, but the offer was juicy enough to take the extra risk (IMO).

You, and others, had every opportunity to avoid being subjected to these awful terms by making yourselves aware of them and not playing in the first place. The fact that you did neither does not, IMO, mean that I should feel sorry for you, nor does it mean that we should expect 888 to make exceptions for some players as a result.

 

[mickeywynne]

Those Thriller terms

By the way this was not a particularly "juicy" bonus as Nifty seems to think. The wagering requirement was £200,000 to qualify for a £3,000 bonus, followed by another £200,000 of wagering before the bonus became withdrawable. Except it seems 888 did not grant the bonus to most High Rollers but simply grabbed the profits on the qualifying £200,000 of wagering at any game. That must have been a nice earner for them. If anyone knows how many High Rollers they had at the time we could have work out 888's windfall "profit."

But surely such fraud is illegal - see my earlier post, no. 27

Good luck to plangston and the GRA.

 

[Nifty29]

Good morning Nifty

eCogra is entirely funded by the gaming industry and invariably, with large claims, finds in favour of the gaming industry. Jesus H, you work for them so I do not need to teach you how to suck eggs.

He who pays the piper, etc ....

But, even by the standards of eCogra, you are either greatly disingenous or highly confused as to how on-line casinos set their Terms and Conditions.

In your post you say ... Well the slots only term was clearly listed


That is total b**l**it.

I wagered about £240,000 to qualify for that November Thriller bonus and, unsurprisingly, I did read the terms and conditions very carefully.

To qualify for a selection of prizes at the end of the month High Roller members were invited to wager a minimum of £200,000 during the month at any game. There were also depositing requirements - a minimum level of £16,000 of deposits was required. I complied faithfully (and in good faith) with all the advertised requirements. Just after the month end I received an email from 888 asking me to select my prize. I chose the £3,000 cash bonus. They replied by saying I was banned. They have yet to state why. Same as plangston I guess.

Good morning mickeywynne,

Since you didn't read my post properly, let me explain something. The slots only bonus was an EXAMPLE. It was nothing to do the 888 situation, but rather an example of why picking and choosing which terms you want to follow is not on. The only relevance directly to the 888 issue is that the term about betting patterns IS clearly stated, so players who were caught breaching that term either a) did not read the terms, or b) read the terms and took a chance that their play was OK. Neither is an excuse.

Actually, in your case, you obviously didn't read the terms carefully at all. Otherwise, you would have contacted the casino the moment you read the "betting pattern etc" and asked exactly what they consider to be covered by that term. I'm assuming you didn't, so the fault is with you for not adhering to the terms.....the fact that you clearly did not understand them is your problem. Try going to court for being over the alcohol limit whilst driving and using the excuse "I didn't know what the limit was or that there was a limit" and see what the judge says. Same thing applies.

Can someone please answer my question re where ecogra has been discredited by an impartial and reliable source?

 

[mickeywynne]

Nifty

Of course I asked - several times. They will not disclose.

Sounds like the the same as plangston and others.

plangston asked eCogra to ask on his behalf and they (eCogra, discredited or otherwise, also refused to disclose.) Can't imagine why!

Like most casinos 888's terms and conditions allow them to do anything they want, including removing bonuses and confiscating deposited funds.

But as SheepyT has posted earlier this is in direct contravention of Gibraltarian law. So that's why I'm joining with plangston in his action. The Gibraltar courts may not be able to recover the monies from Israel. But they can revoke 888/Cassava's operating licence.

But I am sure it will not come to this. As you can see from earlier posts VIP claims have already been settled - ie 888 has coughed up - ahead of any scheduled court hearings.

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty

Of course I asked - several times. They will not disclose.

Sounds like the the same as plangston and others.

plangston asked eCogra to ask on his behalf and they (eCogra, discredited or otherwise, also refused to disclose.) Can't imagine why!

Like most casinos 888's terms and conditions allow them to do anything they want, including removing bonuses and confiscating deposited funds.But as SheepyT has posted earlier this is in direct contravention of Gibraltarian law. So that's why I'm joining with plangston in his action. The Gibraltar courts may not be able to recover the monies from Israel. But they can revoke 888/Cassava's operating licence.

But I am sure it will not come to this. As you can see from earlier posts VIP claims have already been settled - ie 888 has coughed up - ahead of any scheduled court hearings.

So.....why did you play there?

Not all casinos have such draconian and unclear terms. Make better choices.

If you make a poor choice, you have to wear it, as you agree to that "do what we want" term by creating your account at day one.

The accredited casinos here would be an excellent start.

I would also be very careful about taking legal advice from forums. Nobody here is a lawyer and one should never rely on legal advice given here.

Seems like you knew 888 had a chequered history, and yet you still played. You can understand why I have no sympathy. I have never liked 888 and their policies and conduct, but in this case they are within the terms that you agreed to.

 

[mickeywynne]

Nifty

I did not know about 888's chequered history until they attempted (successfully to date) to defraud me on that November Thriller bonus. I only started to learn about 888's bad history when I discovered this forum/thread.

At the time of their attempted fraud they were, I believe, a CasinoMeister accredited casino.

 

[Ososurrey]

Oh Mickey

I suppose we should thank you Nifty for coming clean about your association with ecogra. It begs the question though, why should an independent arbitration organisation feel the need to have a paid stooge on the forum?

You ask where has ecogra been discredited. Fact, they were set up with the help of an 888 director (John Anderson), who went on to also become a director of ecogra. Fact, they actually don't act on clients behalf with 888, they simply parrot 888's myth about betting patterns and techniques which can circumvent the house edge. Also, I can't confirm this (as yet) but I understand 888 are one of the paymasters of ecogra.

So on that basis they ain't independent, and thus, discredited they is.

On the subject of T&Cs, all online casinos produce reams of T&Cs. They do a job of regulating how that organision operates internally, they are all very similar, nobody pays that much attention to them. Ask anyone who has any scientific education and they will tell you that generating randomness is virtually impossible, thus anyone playing at an online casino will have any number of discernable patterns to their activities. A T&C which outlaws betting patterns is therefore a nonsense, a cover-all, which if used to defraud customers will be given short shrift by any legal jurisdiction. The law is the law, the law trumps T&Cs.

 

[chf]

Thriller Help

Everyone seems aware that eCogra is in the poket of the big casinos, particularly 888 that helped set it up.
count me in for your action

have messaged you ... DS

I've tried going down the ecogra route with no success. To begin with I had a fairly dismissive response from Tex Rees quoting from 888 T&Cs highlighting this particular passage:

“In the interests of fair play on our Sites it is prohibited to utilise any recognised betting techniques to circumvent the standard house edge in our games. This includes (but is not limited to) any attempts at card counting. If the game play on your account indicates that you are using such betting techniques we shall immediately block the account and retain any funds in said account.”

and informing me that:

“we are confident that the operator has acted according to their Terms and Conditions and as such I must inform you that we find your dispute to be invalid.”

In a follow-up call when I was trying to find out what I was supposed to have done wrong, Tex told me she couldn’t disclose the details of what I had done wrong because:

“if players understand how these patterns are figured out they (888) can’t fight against them” – my emphasis

All this gave me the impression that ecogra were “owned” by 888 so I responded with this email:

“Hi Tex

I must confess to being disappointed, though not surprised, by your findings.

I had hoped mediation might help me, and 888, avoid more expensive and messy civil proceedings. To this end may I please ask you now to pass to an independent mediator the supposed evidence from 888 that convinces you they acted lawfully in enticing me into substantial (and loss-making) wagering for a bonus they subsequently failed to pay.

You have suggested that disclosing 888’s case against me could damage the casino industry! This is risible. I am not a card counter. There was no “system” behind the way I lost all that money wagering for 888’s promised Thriller bonus. I never breached the Terms and Conditions of the 888 Thriller offer. 888 clearly did breach their own Terms and Conditions by wrongfully withholding their promised bonus.

But, if you are not happy with passing my game-play records to an independent mediator then please may I ask you to pass this so-called “evidence”, that you rely on for your opinion, to my solicitors. I am sure they will be willing to supply you with an undertaking not to use the supposedly “confidential” information to the detriment of the on-line gaming industry. (I shall be using a Gibraltar-based legal firm as my English solicitors advise this is necessary for jurisdictional reasons.)

For the record can you please confirm that the reason you cannot tell me anything about 888’s rejection of my claim is because 888 will not grant you permission?

Likewise, for the record, can you please confirm that 888 was one of the founders of the supposedly-independent eCOGRA organisation.

Please may I also ask you to confirm that the former 888 chief executive, John Anderson – who continues to serve as a director of 888 Holdings – is also a director of eCOGRA.

I am assuming your eCOGRA case file is now closed on my claim for that wrongfully withheld 888 bonus. So, unless you state otherwise, I shall proceed on the basis that the non-disclosure/no-publicity agreement I entered into at the start of our “mediation” process is now over.

Regards”

Well, I never got a reply to that email.

This was a couple of month ago. Since then I have tried to keep up a regular dialogue with Tex but she is usually unavailable to take my call/answer my email. I did manage to get through today though. Asked why ecogra were unable to tell me exactly what was my breach of 888 T&Cs, she said that:

​

“eCogra is unable to release information if the casino feels it will affect their security"

She then advised me:
“when a player is not happy with the outcome of ecogra’s attempts to mediate they can only suggest that the player approach the local authority in Gibraltar and request a review”

So, it seems like it’s the end of the line for ecogra and me. I think it’s telling that 888 feel so threatened by their punters that they need to “fight against them”. If that’s the case then they’re not fit to operate a casino and if ecogra are so obviously in their pocket then they’re not fit to offer what they claim is a “mediation service”

I am also concerned by the similarity between ecogra's reply to ososurrey and their reply to me. It looks like a cut and paste job. Rather as if ecogra are simply putting an official rubber stamp onto whatever 888 tries to get away with. There is no evidence of any detailed investigation by ecogra (or even of the most cursory checking of facts) before they reached their finding.

If any other 888 victims with a similar experience to mine are interested in joining with me in presenting a case for review to the Gibraltar Regulatory Authority then please message me.

 

[mickeywynne]

doppelgangers

Pls see Hey Mickey post ....

Someone seems to think we are twinned.

For the record I AM NOT you. And vice versa - I hope!

As a robbed punter I only want to recover the money stolen by 888.

As an eCogra employee your job is to stop that happening.

Please let's keep our identities separate.

So.....why did you play there?

Not all casinos have such draconian and unclear terms. Make better choices.

If you make a poor choice, you have to wear it, as you agree to that "do what we want" term by creating your account at day one.

The accredited casinos here would be an excellent start.

I would also be very careful about taking legal advice from forums. Nobody here is a lawyer and one should never rely on legal advice given here.

Seems like you knew 888 had a chequered history, and yet you still played. You can understand why I have no sympathy. I have never liked 888 and their policies and conduct, but in this case they are within the terms that you agreed to.

 

[mickeywynne]

doppelgangers II

Please never confuse me with anyone from eCogra (an organisatiom discredited by its funding association with 888/Cassava).

My name is Michael - Mickey to friends. I do not know Shifty Nifty's name. His location is also hard to tell. It seems to involve a lot of right turns - perhaps an aging Thatcherite.

I suppose we should thank you Nifty for coming clean about your association with ecogra. It begs the question though, why should an independent arbitration organisation feel the need to have a paid stooge on the forum?

You ask where has ecogra been discredited. Fact, they were set up with the help of an 888 director (John Anderson), who went on to also become a director of ecogra. Fact, they actually don't act on clients behalf with 888, they simply parrot 888's myth about betting patterns and techniques which can circumvent the house edge. Also, I can't confirm this (as yet) but I understand 888 are one of the paymasters of ecogra.

So on that basis they ain't independent, and thus, discredited they is.

On the subject of T&Cs, all online casinos produce reams of T&Cs. They do a job of regulating how that organision operates internally, they are all very similar, nobody pays that much attention to them. Ask anyone who has any scientific education and they will tell you that generating randomness is virtually impossible, thus anyone playing at an online casino will have any number of discernable patterns to their activities. A T&C which outlaws betting patterns is therefore a nonsense, a cover-all, which if used to defraud customers will be given short shrift by any legal jurisdiction. The law is the law, the law trumps T&Cs.

 

[eliza]

A Real Round of Thanks all Round

Thanks to all of you on this forum and particularly twiggy for starting this discussion. I am so really grateful.

I did not get involved with the Thriller promotion. Thank God. And thanks to this site I have avoided a similar 888 offer last month that, with hindsight, could really easily have cost me £10,000 or more. I really owe you guys

 

[Silencio]

Nifty works for eCorga?! wth.. Don't you dare and ask me "Out of interest, do you promote them?" ever again

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty works for eCorga?! wth.. Don't you dare and ask me "Out of interest, do you promote them?" ever again

Of course I don't work for ecogra. Don't you think that would have been common knowledge by now?

I said that to prove a point and was very successful. The people in this thread with an agenda only extracted the information that they decided would support their agenda and ignored any other facts and opinions completely.

Some immediately accepted my word about working for ecogra, but ignored my points about accepting terms and conditions etc....when it is a FACT that all players concerned DID accept those conditions of play. The rights or wrongs of those terms are a seperate issue, as players had the opportunity to decide this and avoid their current predicament by not taking part in the promotion as a result.

The legal opinions expressed in this thread are pointless and baseless, as nobody here is a lawyer.

 

[Silencio]

Of course I don't work for ecogra. Don't you think that would have been common knowledge by now?

I said that to prove a point and was very successful. The people in this thread with an agenda only extracted the information that they decided would support their agenda and ignored any other facts and opinions completely.

Some immediately accepted my word about working for ecogra, but ignored my points about accepting terms and conditions etc....when it is a FACT that all players concerned DID accept those conditions of play. The rights or wrongs of those terms are a seperate issue, as players had the opportunity to decide this and avoid their current predicament by not taking part in the promotion as a result.

The legal opinions expressed in this thread are pointless and baseless, as nobody here is a lawyer.

:notworthy
haha well played, and yes it was..

 

[eliza]

what a puzzle!

seems quite a few people have different "agendas" here ...

first silencio defends 888 then - after a complaint to the moderator - and a post by Max, concedes he is paid by 888 as an affiliate.

Then along comes nifty who is either a liar or a member of the 888-funded ecogra team. Or really quite possibly a liar and a member of the ecogra team. And surprisingly nifty comes out defending 888.

What a real coincidence.

 

[Silencio]

seems quite a few people have different "agendas" here ...

first silencio defends 888 then - after a complaint to the moderator - and a post by Max, concedes he is paid by 888 as an affiliate.

Then along comes nifty who is either a liar or a member of the 888-funded ecogra team. Or really quite possibly a liar and a member of the ecogra team. And surprisingly nifty comes out defending 888.

What a real coincidence.

I didn't defend 888, hell I even gave you the link to their fall from cm accreditation thread
I never made a secret of me being an affiliate of theirs, I even told you I was before max got involved. (and complaint to moderator? about what?)

And when did Nifty defend 888?

 

[Casinomeister]

Admin note: chill out

Just an admin note to this thread. There have been several infractions given out in this thread to new members who seem to think this forum encourages disrespectful comments towards fellow members. Please understand that flaming and dissing others will lead to a public spanking. Don't do it. Thank you.

 

[Ososurrey]

Looks like the paymasters are a worried by this thread, they have whipped their stooges into action to try and discredit it!

 

[Rightangle]

Feel free to wish me Happy Birthday!

As I've said, I have no particular gripe with 888 (or ecogra) but this string is better than Eastenders!

Will Silencio soon deny any attachment to 888 - just a wind-up?

Do we beleive that Nifty is lying when he now says he is lying about his connection with ecogra?

Why are this double-act posting here anyway?

Just what do their cryptic comments mean?

Will these seriously wealthy (if they are to be believed) group of punters teach 888 the rules of cricket?

Is this discussion getting too hot for the big forum bosses' liking?

I for one will not be missing the next exciting episode!

Is this the first post where no sentence finishes with a full stop?

 

[Casinomeister]

Looks like the paymasters are a worried by this thread, they have whipped their stooges into action to try and discredit it!

Just a heads up:

1.14 - No Trolls. From Wikipedia: "A Troll is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion." Trolls will be slapped upside the head, and their accounts will be permanently disabled.

1.18 - Don't be a PITA Members who just don't have a clue on what is socially acceptable, or are just too annoying will have their accounts closed. The administration and moderators of Casinomeister reserve the right to close accounts at our discretion. This may be a public forum that encourages freedom of expression, but it's still our house. Abuse it and lose it.

B-bye!

 

[Casinomeister]

As I've said, I have no particular gripe with 888 (or ecogra) but this string is better than Eastenders!

Will Silencio soon deny any attachment to 888 - just a wind-up?

Do we beleive that Nifty is lying when he now says he is lying about his connection with ecogra?

Why are this double-act posting here anyway?

Just what do their cryptic comments mean?

Will these seriously wealthy (if they are to be believed) group of punters teach 888 the rules of cricket?

Is this discussion getting too hot for the big forum bosses' liking?

I for one will not be missing the next exciting episode!

Is this the first post where no sentence finishes with a full stop?

I gave a warning about chilling out. You may think that you are free to ignore administrative warnings, but if this is the case you are posting at the wrong forum. When I tell people to chill - that is exactly what I mean.

Flaming is one thing, but when you are disrespecting the administration, you are disrespecting me. As for the OP, he is welcome to submit a complaint via the PAB service as we will check it out. As for you, I do not have time for your trollish behavior. Go play your games elsewhere.

Bye!

Admin note: this thread has been upgraded to closed. If members feel that can discuss this issue like adults, I will reopen it.

 

[Casinomeister]

I've reopened the thread by members' requests.

Please keep it mellow and abide by forum rules. Thank you.

 

[Tengil]

These links may help or you may already know about this.

It would probably be best to first contact the Ombudsman (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) and complain about GRA. Dont know if they actually deal with GRA but would obviously be the first to contact.
If that doesnt work out then small claims court would be the best option to reduce the fees. You should definitely go this route as it would most likely fall under unfair contract (it would in Finland).

There are probably UK members here who could give better assistance (?).

Small Claims Court
277 Main Street
Gibraltar
(+ 350) 20070651
registrar@gibtelecom.net

About the procedure:

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,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and lastly

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The claim form:

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Thanks to HPG for the links:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

HPG is carusos (CM and he have a "history") site but I hope Bryan wont mind this time as it may prove useful for the ones affected ITT.

But remember Cassava is Gibraltars biggest employer. GRA is totally useless as they only basically copypaste the operators response in most cases, eCogra is junk aswell. In the case of GRA its just corruption and in eCogras case its either that, incomptence or both. I know at least in poker cases they are totally useless.
I actually had some hopes for eCogra at one time as Mr Beveridge seemed open to suggestions for improvements. I was of course wrong.

And lastly some here seem to have a hard time to understand that in EU the consumer protection is extremely strong and usually a complaint to the Ombudsman is enough. Consumers are constantly informed about their rights in TV and newspapers and told not to just accept everything just because it reads in the T&Cs, there are things like unfair contract etc. For example there are numerous telecom companies that have learned it the hard way.