Rogue Announcement 888.com and all of its brethren

Casinomeister hosts the official Rogue Casino site - coining the phrase in the year 2000

conker

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Location
UK
Made BBC Radio 4 news today, with a whole section about it. Looks like Sarah Harrison (head of UKGC) is standing up to these firms who have been taking punters for a ride all these years.

More to come no doubt...
 

slotsoffun

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Location
UK
The following was taken from the Gambling commissions review -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


888 also failed to recognise visible signs of problem gambling behaviour displayed by an individual customer, which was so significant that it resulted in criminal activity. The customer staked over £1.3million, including £55k stolen from their employer.

I wonder if the individual registered/used a company credit card and if so how it passed verification. Maybe it was cash, but not sure how if online deposits were made - deposite cash into their own bank first maybe. Still, £55k is nothing on the other £1.25 million losses.

The penalty package will see 888 pay £7.8million, which includes repayment of the £3.5million of deposits made by the self-excluded customers and compensation of £62k to the employer from whom money was stolen

Hmmm, so the employer was reimbursed with extra to likely cover interest/legal costs, fair enough. I wonder if the individual kept his/her job, or did the company recognise the problem and offered occupational health support with an agreed deduction in wages to pay it back. Or was the individual sacked and charged with fraud?

Also, if 888 are being charged for not detecting the issue, are they part responsible and shouldthey return all/some of the individuals losses? I mean, if an establishment serves alcohol to someone they believe is not physically or mentally stable, they can be liable. I 'think' (so please don't quote the law back to me) it's the same if somebody serves alcohol to someone they know will drive or doesn't make steps to prevent someone from driving if they appear intoxicated.

Or is it tough luck - the individual knew the risks and continued regardless!
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Made BBC Radio 4 news today, with a whole section about it. Looks like Sarah Harrison (head of UKGC) is standing up to these firms who have been taking punters for a ride all these years.

More to come no doubt...
It was actually on the 6pm main BBC news tonight - quite a major feature on it.
Glad the B'stards got what was coming to them! ;)

KK
 

Gaz237

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
May 8, 2014
Location
chelmsford UK
The following was taken from the Gambling commissions review -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.




I wonder if the individual registered/used a company credit card and if so how it passed verification. Maybe it was cash, but not sure how if online deposits were made - deposite cash into their own bank first maybe. Still, £55k is nothing on the other £1.25 million losses.



Hmmm, so the employer was reimbursed with extra to likely cover interest/legal costs, fair enough. I wonder if the individual kept his/her job, or did the company recognise the problem and offered occupational health support with an agreed deduction in wages to pay it back. Or was the individual sacked and charged with fraud?

Also, if 888 are being charged for not detecting the issue, are they part responsible and shouldthey return all/some of the individuals losses? I mean, if an establishment serves alcohol to someone they believe is not physically or mentally stable, they can be liable. I 'think' (so please don't quote the law back to me) it's the same if somebody serves alcohol to someone they know will drive or doesn't make steps to prevent someone from driving if they appear intoxicated.

Or is it tough luck - the individual knew the risks and continued regardless!

Taken from the Guardian article.


The customer staked more than £1.3m, including £55,000 stolen from their employer, during a 13-month period during which they gambled three to four hours a day, placing more than 850,000 bets – an average of about 2,150 bets every day.

They were later sentenced to 16 months in prison for theft and false accounting.
 

slotsoffun

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Location
UK
Taken from the Guardian article.


The customer staked more than £1.3m, including £55,000 stolen from their employer, during a 13-month period during which they gambled three to four hours a day, placing more than 850,000 bets – an average of about 2,150 bets every day.

They were later sentenced to 16 months in prison for theft and false accounting.

Oh, thanks. Seems for info was available in a tabloid than the official commisioners report.

I guess the addiction/problem factor was overruled as the individual made concious efforts to falsify accounts.

Still, it's gotta shake up the gambling industry. This isn't a drug addict robbing a few quid to buy a £10 hit - this sounds like a professional with a wealthy income / lifestyle who lost, not only 1.25m but everything (career, family, trust etc.) and then they got so desperate they stole £55k to try and get it all back.

In comparison that's like trying to/hoping to win £1k form £50, £10k from £500 or £100k from £5k. Yes, it's been acheived before by those on a miracle session/streak but commonly impossible. We've all seen the high stake streamers who have £15k wins here and there but it's usually quickly re-wagered.

What I think and hope will happen is,

1 - the misleading TV/www adverts showing Jackpot symbols rolling in (usually reel combos that are physically impossible to acheive) will be banned.

2 - casino's will have to make it clear that they basically hire the slot/games from the provider. They have zero control over the game/outcome/odds etc.

3 - the game providers/developers will have make it very clear how things work. As in, the outcome of a spin or feature is already pre-determined and that it's simply a case of what outcome was next in line when the player pressed the spin button.

4 - They'll also need to make it clear if playing at a casino makes a difference in outcome. As in, if I play DOA, am I receving outcomes cached on the Casinos server/version of DOA, or do all casinos request an outcome from the game provider (NetEnt in this case) every time a play spins on the game?

5 - also, does stake make a diffrence? Does a player on a £5 stake call from a diffrent list of outcomes than a player staking 20p?

6 - also, do mobile and dektop version call from the same list of outcomes?


Basically, I think things are going to be made much, much clearer to the public/end user how this 'Randomness' works!
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
Oh, thanks. Seems for info was available in a tabloid than the official commisioners report.

I guess the addiction/problem factor was overruled as the individual made concious efforts to falsify accounts.

Still, it's gotta shake up the gambling industry. This isn't a drug addict robbing a few quid to buy a £10 hit - this sounds like a professional with a wealthy income / lifestyle who lost, not only 1.25m but everything (career, family, trust etc.) and then they got so desperate they stole £55k to try and get it all back.

In comparison that's like trying to/hoping to win £1k form £50, £10k from £500 or £100k from £5k. Yes, it's been acheived before by those on a miracle session/streak but commonly impossible. We've all seen the high stake streamers who have £15k wins here and there but it's usually quickly re-wagered.

What I think and hope will happen is,

1 - the misleading TV/www adverts showing Jackpot symbols rolling in (usually reel combos that are physically impossible to acheive) will be banned.

2 - casino's will have to make it clear that they basically hire the slot/games from the provider. They have zero control over the game/outcome/odds etc.

3 - the game providers/developers will have make it very clear how things work. As in, the outcome of a spin or feature is already pre-determined and that it's simply a case of what outcome was next in line when the player pressed the spin button.

4 - They'll also need to make it clear if playing at a casino makes a difference in outcome. As in, if I play DOA, am I receving outcomes cached on the Casinos server/version of DOA, or do all casinos request an outcome from the game provider (NetEnt in this case) every time a play spins on the game?

5 - also, does stake make a diffrence? Does a player on a £5 stake call from a diffrent list of outcomes than a player staking 20p?

6 - also, do mobile and dektop version call from the same list of outcomes?


Basically, I think things are going to be made much, much clearer to the public/end user how this 'Randomness' works!

I doubt any of that will be much clearer. What will happen though is that you will have to prove where you get your money to deposit from. Especially if you're playing for high amounts.
If this employee had been asked he would have had a hard time getting away with losing that much.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
I agree - that level and frequency of action should have raised red flags at 888 in any case.
 

ReggieMac

Experienced Member
Joined
May 17, 2017
Location
UK
I hope this is just the start of a crackdown on rogue outfits such as 888 but sadly I feel the onus will once again be pushed back onto the player to have to prove the availability and legality of the source of the deposits made rather than the casino being held accountable for not enforcing checks in the first place.

As we all know, regardless of the token gesture of imposing fines on Casino operations, there is always only one real loser in the gambling industry, the player. :rolleyes:
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
I agree - that level and frequency of action should have raised red flags at 888 in any case.
:lolup: More like this type of flag waving: :cheerleader:

Let's be honest, 888/Cassava don't give a rats-arse where the money is coming from, as long as it keeps rolling in - the more the better!
Unfortunately that just the culture in their country :(

KK
 

Vibroverb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Location
Europe
I hope this is just the start of a crackdown on rogue outfits such as 888 but sadly I feel the onus will once again be pushed back onto the player to have to prove the availability and legality of the source of the deposits made rather than the casino being held accountable for not enforcing checks in the first place.

As we all know, regardless of the token gesture of imposing fines on Casino operations, there is always only one real loser in the gambling industry, the player. :rolleyes:

I agree, I don't think Casinos will make an effort to clear things up for the players, the muddier it is, the more people think they can win a fortune. If anything will be done, it will have to be done by the players. Such a proving where the money came from and making it tougher to withdraw (cause they don't care about preventing money coming in)

When times get tougher, the Casinos will stick together against the players
 

Arch Stanton

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Location
UK
:lolup: More like this type of flag waving: :cheerleader:

Let's be honest, 888/Cassava don't give a rats-arse where the money is coming from, as long as it keeps rolling in - the more the better!
Unfortunately that just the culture in their country :(

KK

I think some are far worse than others, but yes, basically all online gambling firms couldn't give a monkey's where the money comes from.

What is shocking about the 888 case of the woman going to jail, is that she was not challenged about such huge deposits and activity over even a reasonable period of time. Some firms will flag it up after a few days, but this went on for over a year.

I know some people think it's ultimately down to the player's self restraint, like that hypocritical buffoon McCririck, but gambling addiction is a genuine mental health disorder. Problem gambling can catch anyone regardless of class, sex or intelligence. The addiction to gambling is often in stark contrast to very rational sensible decisions in the rest of the person's life. They can be totally reasonably balanced people who have this one weak link that is a compulsion to gamble until everything is gone. Money, assets, friends, family, self esteem and sometimes eventually respect for the law. Worse still the final loss can even tragically be their will to exist.

For some gambling is a relatively harmless pass time that doesn't take over their life. If gambling firms can't exist on the proceeds from those punters then they are not a viable business. Their profits should not depend on the blatant exploitation of people with a virtually incurable addiction. How the bosses & share holders sleep at night is beyond me.
 
Top