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888 / 21.com - utter insanity

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by Lifesticks, Jul 7, 2006.

    Jul 7, 2006
  1. Lifesticks

    Lifesticks Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Flash Developer
    Location:
    Sweden
    A couple of days ago I found 21.com, a sister site to 888. They had an attractive introductory bonus offer and I decided to give it a go. I deposited 200$ but did not get the bonus. When asking the friendly chat help they informed me that this was because of my account at 888 but also confirmed that no such mention was in their terms. She told me she would forward the question to their operations department which would get back to me within 24 hours. I expected them to sort out the issue for me, and not really being very concerned about whether I would receive the bonus or not (it had a 50X WR) I started playing with my 200$ and did very well.

    The next day when trying to log in I find that my account has been removed. After contacting CS I find they have closed my account and confiscated my winnings due to "bonus abuse".

    Excuse me? They steal my non-bonus related winnings for "bonus abusing" a bonus I, according to their terms, was eligible for but never received. Furthermore, they will not give me a reason for closing the account and decided to "not further discuss this issue".

    I see that casinomeister doesnt touch 888 ... could anyone point me in another direction?
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Jul 7, 2006
  3. nafanny29

    nafanny29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    financail adviser
    Location:
    London, England
    This is gonna be a difficult one Lifesticks.

    If it was a top-end respectable casino they would proberly let you keep the winnings or at the very least they would add your bonus and request that you complete the playthrough. But with this group im afraid to say that you will proberly get your deposit back only.

    See http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...ino-net-will-steal-your-deposit-winnings.html

    Quite similar to your issue really.
     
  4. Jul 7, 2006
  5. karlo

    karlo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    malaga
    Just one question, if you would have lost your deposit would your account have been closed too? Wague terms and conditions and very subjective ways of reading them, is obviously the way 888 wants to operate.

    Reading the thread posted by nafanny it sounds like they confiscate your winnings when you "abuse" the bonus. But what happens if you loose? I am very curious. Do they give the deposit back when you "abuse" the bonus and loose?????
     
  6. Jul 7, 2006
  7. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Lodge a complaint online at You must register/login in order to see the link.. 888.com is part of the eCOGRA initiative.
     
  8. Jul 7, 2006
  9. Lifesticks

    Lifesticks Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Flash Developer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Interesting read but I have to say that I think there are a number of major differences. The victim in that thread actually received the bonus at two of their sites and also played riskfree only betting the bonus and then withdrawing the deposit - a typical bonus abuser behaviour.

    I never did anything of the sort and I never received a bonus! There has been NO bonus money on my account but nevertheless I have bonus abused them?
     
  10. Jul 7, 2006
  11. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    I had the same experience except I did not play after being denied the bonus and not hearing back from the operations dept within 24 hours.

    So I put in a withdrawal request. It say it takes 5-7 days for withdrawals so I am still waiting to see what they do.

    By the way, when I signed up and deposited it was 20x wagering requirement including Neteller. It is now 50x.
     
  12. Jul 7, 2006
  13. rreevy

    rreevy Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    UK
    This is ridiculous imo. How on Earth can anyone abuse a bonus they've not yet received? What's next? Casinos banning you and confiscating your winnings when you haven't used a bonus because they don't like the way you played a bonus in the past?

    An interesting question here is whether 21.com is actually owned by 888. A similar question was asked about Reef Club a while back and I never really did work out the answer.

    888.com is licensed in Gibraltar, which may be of some significance. Does anyone know whether the regulatory authorities have a role in cases like this? They are also listed (as 888 Holdings plc.) on the UK stock market. I'll try to find out if this means there's any way you can address this issue through the UK.

    If it gets to the point where casinos licensed in Gibraltar and listed in the UK can behave like this, then God help this entire industry.
     
  14. Jul 7, 2006
  15. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    Me: I'm confused. Is this the same casino as Casino On Net?

    CS: Welcome to 888 Chat! We are glad to be of service. Please hold whilst I try to locate your Casino-on-net account with your given E-mail address.

    CS: Are you referring to 21.com

    Me: Yes

    CS: 21.com is powered by 888.com so 21.com members can enjoy the support and promotions of 888.com

    Me: So I can't have accounts at both, right?

    CS: Yes you can however, if your Casino-on-Net account has not been active for the last 6 months (did not make a deposit) then you will be considered as a new member to 21.com

    Me: What about the sign-up bonus? No go for Casino On Net account holders?

    CS: Do you have a Casino-on-Net account?

    Me: I did. I think I played there last year.

    Me: They took all my money with the Neteller 50x playthru requirement.

    CS: As I said above if your account has not active for the last 6 months then you will be entitled to receive 100% match up bonus up to $200 with 21.com

    Me: OK thank you.

    CS: you are most welcome
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Jul 9, 2006
  17. rreevy

    rreevy Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    UK
    I decided to check out 21.com as well, and am beginning to wish I hadn't. On Thursday I deposited after confirming on the phone that I'd be eligible for the bonus. On Friday I rang them again, to see why the bonus hadn't been credited, and was then told I wasn't eligible. The guy said that 21.com was 'similar' to Casino on Net and used the same software, and I gather this is supposed to be enough to make people with Casino on Net accounts wonder if they're eligible for the bonus at 21.com. I pointed out that many casinos used the same software; also, that some people seem to be unclear on whether Reef Club is actually owned by them, so the same could go for 21.com.

    After some discussion the support guy agreed that there was nothing in the terms that meant I wasn't eligible. He went to speak to his supervisor a couple of times, then said I should get it and told me to send an e-mail.

    The e-mail came back saying the bonus would be added within 24 hours. That was yesterday afternoon. I got home tonight and logged in - no bonus.

    I am getting really annoyed by this. I appreciate that 21.com is basically a 'skin' of Casino on Net. This is why I took the trouble to ring them before depositing. Had they said no, that would have been fine. But they told me I was eligible, so I deposited. What irritates me more is that I won't get the full amount back if I just withdraw my deposit, as I'm a UK player so I'll get hit with currency conversion fees.

    This issue has been slightly more complicated because I have 2 accounts at CON. The reason for this is that I opened one but never deposited or played. I had forgotten the login details when I wanted to play there several months later, so I contacted support and was told to open another one. This was nearly 18 months ago now. Also, my account has been inactive for 6 months (I last played there towards the end of last year, I think).

    They admitted their terms were unclear, and that it should say so if people with CON accounts aren't eligible for the bonus at 21.com. They said that maybe they should change them - they haven't so far. Also, the 'inactive for 6 months' rule isn't mentioned anywhere. The site says 'powered by 888.com' but I don't see the words 'Casino on Net' mentioned anywhere.

    Also, has anyone read their 'disconnection policy'? Made me raise an eyebrow or two... ;)
     
  18. Jul 9, 2006
  19. dickens1298

    dickens1298 Dormant account

    Location:
    LA, California
    What has happened to Casino-on-Net?

    I remember playing them awhile back. Decent bonuses, and I loved the fact that you could play multiple hands on blackjack as well. At one point in time, I seemed to be earning a bonus every time I logged in (a loyalty bonus, as it turned out). I also noticed some heavy bettors on that site - one person was betting $100 a pop on their blackjack tables.

    I stopped using CON because of the long wait time - rather surprised to be reading all these complaints AND see that it is now rogued....
     
  20. Jul 10, 2006
  21. rreevy

    rreevy Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    UK
    Got the bonus in the end. Was up a few hundred bucks when I met the WR, but thought I'd better play some more as otherwise they'd void my balance for bonus abuse.

    So I played some more and ended up having played nicely above the WR, but only with about the same as my original deposit and bonus. I thought I'd better not cash out with exactly my deposit and bonus, as they might void my balance for bonus abuse.

    Of course I ended up with sweet nothing. ;-(
     
  22. Jul 11, 2006
  23. Linus

    Linus Dormant account

    Occupation:
    asdf
    Location:
    TX
    Well, at least you proved you weren't a bonus abuser.
     
  24. Jul 11, 2006
  25. lydia

    lydia Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Administrative
    Location:
    Europe
    LOL! :lolup:

    Yes, the main thing is a clear concience!

    It happens oft to me - a nice cashout, leave a little bit to play - win again, cashout, win again(yes, sometimes, not very oft) and then I have a very guilty concience to cashout and blew it all out. I must admit, I regret bitterly afterwards...:(
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  26. Jul 11, 2006
  27. Lifesticks

    Lifesticks Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Flash Developer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Approximately 3 hours after I filed my complaint with eCogra!

    Perhaps more than the money it feels good to have received a formal excuse.

    Well done eCogra!
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Jul 11, 2006
  29. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    What about your winnings when you were playing without the bonus, though? :what:
     
  30. Jul 11, 2006
  31. Lifesticks

    Lifesticks Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Flash Developer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Yes, they are there as well.
     
  32. Jul 11, 2006
  33. rreevy

    rreevy Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    UK
    LOL.

    Well, I could never play $1 a hand for hours. Much more fun to bet bigger and endure the occasional losing streak, plus it clears the WR much more quickly.

    I guess I should have cashed out, knowing I was entitled to my money. But I gave them some more play, lost a little, then a mix of greed and paranoia about being labelled a bonus abuser got the better of me. It was quite late and I should know by now that playing when tired is generally not good news.

    On the plus side, I did have a really good run off a couple of bonuses the weekend before. There's no feeling like a big win, but I shouldn't expect to be lucky all the time. And I'm only stuck $200 on this promo, though I could have walked with a nice profit. But what you never have you'll never miss.
     
  34. Jul 11, 2006
  35. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    Well done Lifesticks and well done eCogra.

    I know this was a clear cut issue but even so, without eCogra where would you have been?

    I think Bryan would have got a similar result for you, but in the long run it is better for players to have a reliable dispute service available rather than having to rely on Bryan and his good reputation and orifices (sic). ( You never know Bryan might eventually be seduced by the 'dark side'!)

    Mitch
     
  36. Jul 12, 2006
  37. Lifesticks

    Lifesticks Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Flash Developer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Exactly, with a casino who says "We will not further discuss this issue and your accounts will stay blocked" I´d be left with nothing but a very bad feeling in my stomach. Not even a phone number to call. And this is from one of the absolute major players in the online business.

    I have previously been a little unsure about Bryan's rouging of casino-on-net based purely on spam but to me this shows they clearly have more issues.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2006
  38. Jul 12, 2006
  39. rreevy

    rreevy Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    UK
    Personally I would have thought a 'not recommended' would have done for the spamming... just my opinion. But after this I think they probably belong where they are.

    A thought occurred to me regarding my own attempt to claim the bonus. CON support told me that I should be able to tell from the website that 21.com is similar to CON and that I therefore wouldn't be able to get the bonus. Well, Starluck and Planetluck both have similar sites, both use in-house software, and don't seem to have any qualm about people claiming the bonus at both. Didn't think of that when I posted before. Give them their due, CON did resolve my problem without too much hassle.
     

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