Resolved 7Sultans complaint

Rep has been contacted,still no response.have had three responses from FL CS with same request.No budge.Theres no BS here m8,that will be the case upon the outcome.

You'lll probably have to wait til Monday - most reps don't work weekends and not all of them bother checking their messages on their days off. If you haven't heard anything back from them on Monday, then shoot a message to Max or Bryan and let them know.
 
You'lll probably have to wait til Monday - most reps don't work weekends and not all of them bother checking their messages on their days off. If you haven't heard anything back from them on Monday, then shoot a message to Max or Bryan and let them know.

Thanks chayton,will do.
 
Thanks for your astute vision vinylweatherman.Why is it not so obvious too others?

Nobody is saying it isn't a silly request from FL (assuming everything about you is legit and there's nothing to suggest it isn't).

What members are saying is that a newbie blowing in the door like a force 10 gale and dissing people left and right because they may not share your exact point of view is, at best, impolite. You did not present your complaint in a reasonable manner. You made accusations or implications that FL was trying to avoid paying you, that I was a paid employee of the casinos who's job it is to convince everyone that the casino is right, that contacting the rep "suits them" as it keeps complaints quiet, etc etc.

My experience is that newbs who come out all guns blazing are usually trying to hide something and/or are trying to blackmail the casino into paying. It is not always the case, and it may not be in your case, but it is the first thing that comes to mind when a seasoned member first reads an OP like that....hence some of the replies which you didn't like. Maybe you just don't know how to control your temper and/or you don't care to read and respect the rules here at CM. I don't know. Either way, you're not likely to be welcome for very long if you don't stop slagging off reputable operators without just cause.

Why is it not so obvious too others? Well one of the most obvious courses of action I can think of is to call your bank and ask for some kind of confirmation of your old account i.e. what FL has asked you to do. My educated guess is that, if you had done this first before shooting from the hip, you would have had your cash in your hands as we speak and this thread would never had existed.

If a casino makes a request that you cannot fulfill, then fair enough....but FL said you can provide a letter from your bank in lieu of the card and they will pay you. So why didn't you do it? Doesn't make sense. It creates the impression that you're trying to force FL into dropping the request by making a noise in public, rather than actually take the time to deal with it yourself. It may not be the case, but that's the impression.
 
Nobody is saying it isn't a silly request from FL (assuming everything about you is legit and there's nothing to suggest it isn't).

What members are saying is that a newbie blowing in the door like a force 10 gale and dissing people left and right because they may not share your exact point of view is, at best, impolite. You did not present your complaint in a reasonable manner. You made accusations or implications that FL was trying to avoid paying you, that I was a paid employee of the casinos who's job it is to convince everyone that the casino is right, that contacting the rep "suits them" as it keeps complaints quiet, etc etc.

My experience is that newbs who come out all guns blazing are usually trying to hide something and/or are trying to blackmail the casino into paying. It is not always the case, and it may not be in your case, but it is the first thing that comes to mind when a seasoned member first reads an OP like that....hence some of the replies which you didn't like. Maybe you just don't know how to control your temper and/or you don't care to read and respect the rules here at CM. I don't know. Either way, you're not likely to be welcome for very long if you don't stop slagging off reputable operators without just cause.

Why is it not so obvious too others? Well one of the most obvious courses of action I can think of is to call your bank and ask for some kind of confirmation of your old account i.e. what FL has asked you to do. My educated guess is that, if you had done this first before shooting from the hip, you would have had your cash in your hands as we speak and this thread would never had existed.

If a casino makes a request that you cannot fulfill, then fair enough....but FL said you can provide a letter from your bank in lieu of the card and they will pay you. So why didn't you do it? Doesn't make sense. It creates the impression that you're trying to force FL into dropping the request by making a noise in public, rather than actually take the time to deal with it yourself. It may not be the case, but that's the impression.

Nifty.As I have said in my posts,I will do that but cannot at present as it was the weekend and today is a Public holiday.I can also 90% say that banks here wont help you fgor months.(Theres nothing in it for them except charging huge fees to do this)Im going to try tomorrow.Then if all else fails I will let eCogra sort it out.They will know if im legit or not.I am not slagging you off either,I thought you were serious when you said you make a living from it.My mistake.
 
This is an all too common request, and because it is impossible to comply with when the card in question has been destroyed YEARS ago, it makes casinos look like they are using the demands as a ruse not to pay. Banks are not in the business of confirming accounts that have long since been closed, as once the bank is satisfied that there are no outstanding matters, the closure goes ahead. If there IS an outstanding matter, the bank will NOT close the account.

Even the sending of a confirmation letter is not a universal practice, and even if one could be obtained when needed, it could take WEEKS for the bank to send it out, so in effect, FL are telling this player the money is on hold for as long as this takes. With my experience of "big business" here in the UK, he may not even get this letter without having to request it several times, and then badger them to hurry up. It is made more difficult since he is no longer with the bank.

I had a similar issue, unrelated to casinos, but where a card with a loyalty element was closed down because the companies concerned decided to pull out from running the offer. Some points went missing, and whatever side I contacted said "raise it with the other, we no longer support the product". Even after only a year, neither company could retrieve the data in order to explain what had gone wrong, and to correct it, and neither was prepared to be the one to deal with tracing back the issue. They then closed down the support departments that had dealt with this altogether, making it impossible to contact them. The issue was never resolved, but was not worth anything like 4K. I STILL have an image of front and back of this card though, from it's first incarnation as a VISA card, as I used it for a time at casinos before they switched to Mastercard and put a stop to it.

Some players have had even worse issues, as they have been asked years later for copies of a GIFT card once used. Such cards are only good for the amount on them, and cannot be topped up, so are usually destroyed once used. There is often no CS for gift card holders either from the issuing company, so getting a letter confirming the details of a specific gift card is impossible.

Players can partly protect themselves from these "out of the blue" demands by routinely making the copies of the cards when they first use them, even if no casino has asked for them, even gift cards. They should then keep these images "forever", such as on an archive CD or DVD along with similar long term files. The same could be done with letters from a card issuer that demonstrate that the account behind a card has been closed. Most players will never use these archives, but because such requests are unpredictable, having the data to hand can make such a request no more difficult than supplying current documents.

I cannot see why they need a 2 year old card though, as they are no longer in danger of chargebacks from it, even if the account was still open.

eCogra will see the ridiculousness of this request, and by taking such an approach the casino has left itself open to having eCogra poke it's nose in, and make judgement. This can leave a "black mark" on it's file with eCogra just as not paying a bill leaves a "black mark" on someone's credit file. CS should have taken a more realistic approach, and management should have told the processor not to be so unreasonable and accept the current set of documents.

Rather than going on about it, the OP should have left it with the first post, toned down to be a tale of woe, not an accusation of deliberate intent, and sent CS the "14 days" formal email informing them of the impossibilty of the request, and that as you had reached "deadlock", you would make a formal complaint to eCogra after 14 days.

I can assure you, IT WORKS! Prime casino tried to jerk me around over a £500 withdrawal by launching an investigation, even though I had been a long term player and on the VIP list. I sent the email on a weekend so they had it for the start of the week, and within HOURS they had "concluded their investigation" and paid up. It seems they didn't want eCogra asking questions and finding out they didn't really have a leg to stand on. If they DID have anything, they would have presented this to eCogra rather than pay up. The 14 days is counted from when things stalled, and if you can get the casino to send you a "deadlock" reply, such as refusing to back down on this request, you can go to eCogra straight away.
Unless FL have reasonable grounds to believe they are still at risk from something going wrong over this long closed card account, they are not going to want to embarrass themselves in front of eCogra. Contacting the rep today so that he has the message tomorrow may well make progress such that the need to go formal with eCogra or a PAB is removed. FL can still be "punished" through the loss of your custom, the same "punishment" I meeted out to Prime casino. I also uninstalled Ruby Fortune around the same time, as Palace Group did the support for Prime, and so I held them partly responsible.

Thanks for your advice m8,I am going to try the bank route tomorrow as its a public holiday today here in Perth,Australia.I still have had no response from the rep here its over 24 hours now.I am also in "deadlock,I think".As CS has stood firm on 4 emails about getting the card from the expired,closed 2 years at least account.So I am submitting too eCogra tomorrow morning.Thanks again
 
agree

I totally agree with everything you have said. I believe when a person uses a credit card at a casino, forms, and copies of the card should be submitted then. This way if the person withdraws or changes cards the documentation is still there. I use to play at mg casinos when US players could, and I dare say I don't have any of those cards anymore. I guess we all need to keep a shoebox for dead credit cards. But wait...make sure you write down which one was used where :p
 
Same Issue but Resolved in 2 hours

I just made a withdrawal a few hours ago from Slotastic and they requested updated information before being allowed to withdraw again., (seems this is happening quite often lately at many casinos) I was requested to send copies of the 4 visa cards I used for depositing of which 2 visa cards were expired. I sent them my new ones that I had that replaced the 2 old ones and let them know these were the replacement of the ones they wanted copies of and I could not provide this since we are requested to cut/shred/return the old cards when expired and that I only owned 2 visas.

Slotastic was very good at understanding this problem with the old credit cards and was excellent in the customer service when this came about. Within 2 hours of emails and copies, I was once again approved to withdraw (which was blocked until all updated docs that were requested were in).

Hopefully this will come together for you too.

.
 
Thanks for your advice m8,I am going to try the bank route tomorrow as its a public holiday today here in Perth,Australia.I still have had no response from the rep here its over 24 hours now.I am also in "deadlock,I think".As CS has stood firm on 4 emails about getting the card from the expired,closed 2 years at least account.So I am submitting too eCogra tomorrow morning.Thanks again

Hi dadnazza666

I received your PM this morning and I am busy looking into your complaint. As other posters stated, I do not work weekends and your PM was sent 02:40am yesterday.

I will get back to you as soon as I have a reply

Regards

Wim
VP Operations
Fortune Lounge
 
Hi everyone

I have replied to dadnazza666 and his withdrawal will be processed today.

We sent him the request for KYC documentation on Friday, 2 March which he returned on Saturday, 3 March after which we requested the letter from his bank on the same day. dadnazza666 replied to us on the same day again with another reply threatening us with e-Cogra action, Casinomeister postings, casino scam reports on "seven main sites online", etc. if the issue is not resolved by Sunday (4th March).

When dadnazza666's mail informing us that the card had been destroyed was received it was escalated to a Floor Manager as part of our procedures. However, as we do not process withdrawals over weekends, the matter had to wait until this morning to be resolved. If dadnazza666 had given us enough opportunity, the issue would have been addressed and resolved this morning anyway.

Although it is procedure to request copies of cards that may have expired, this would have been waived as dadnazza666 is a long-standing player with us. All we needed was just time.

We have implemented several escalation avenues for players to use when they are not satisfied with answers or service received from any of our staff and we urge players to make use of them when they find themselves in such a situation. All our websites have an e-mail link for unresolved queries and I usually attend to any PM's in this forum fairly quickly. If any player does not receive satisfactory answers from any of our Agents or feel that they did not get the service they deserve, there is a Floor Manager on duty on every shift who will assist them.


Regards

Wim
VP Operations
Fortune Lounge
 
While FL has taken a practical approach to address this issue I do not condone threats made to achieve such aims least of all posting at casinomeister. Just as posters put casinos to shame by posting logs of live chat emails etc. why cant FL do likewise to even things out a bit. Of course, for business sake it wont be done but just a thought to make sure casinos are protected from ruffians.
 
I would suggest to put those who submitted a PAB in the list of pre-moderated posters. This will (potentially) lower the damage caused by their posts...
 
Hi everyone

I have replied to dadnazza666 and his withdrawal will be processed today.

We sent him the request for KYC documentation on Friday, 2 March which he returned on Saturday, 3 March after which we requested the letter from his bank on the same day. dadnazza666 replied to us on the same day again with another reply threatening us with e-Cogra action, Casinomeister postings, casino scam reports on "seven main sites online", etc. if the issue is not resolved by Sunday (4th March).

When dadnazza666's mail informing us that the card had been destroyed was received it was escalated to a Floor Manager as part of our procedures. However, as we do not process withdrawals over weekends, the matter had to wait until this morning to be resolved. If dadnazza666 had given us enough opportunity, the issue would have been addressed and resolved this morning anyway.

Although it is procedure to request copies of cards that may have expired, this would have been waived as dadnazza666 is a long-standing player with us. All we needed was just time.

We have implemented several escalation avenues for players to use when they are not satisfied with answers or service received from any of our staff and we urge players to make use of them when they find themselves in such a situation. All our websites have an e-mail link for unresolved queries and I usually attend to any PM's in this forum fairly quickly. If any player does not receive satisfactory answers from any of our Agents or feel that they did not get the service they deserve, there is a Floor Manager on duty on every shift who will assist them.


Regards

Wim
VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

It shouldn't be though. Banks order customers to destroy cards when they expire, so simply following an instruction from their banks could place players in this difficult situation. Usually, a replacement card gets sent out, often a month before the old one expires. In the letters I get, it always says something like "when you get this card, please destroy the old one". Whilst an existing player would be able to negotiate some flexibility, a new player could find themselves denied payment simply for following their bank's instruction.

Casinos have the data to tell them that a card is about to expire, so should take the opportunity to request a copy then, when it is easy for the player to comply. The OP REALLY flew off the handle on this, and this WOULD have severely damaged his chances had he taken this to eCogra as planned. FL would have presented the "arm twisting" email to prove that they were not being given a fair chance to resolve the matter.

Finally, WHY was it so absolutely necessary to "necro" a 2 year ago "dead" card before making payment to a player that had been verified through a set of documents, and had their current card verified.
Was there really a risk, or was this a "jobsworth" attitude because there was an "empty slot" on the system where a verification of this old card should have sat.

I have used my card at Royal Vegas, and it expires in June. I have yet to be asked for back & front of it, and by July it will be too late because it would have been cut up at the request of the bank, and a replacement issued. All I will have is an old JPEG created a couple of years ago when I got the card, and if that is rejected, it cannot be redone from a destroyed card. Many players, especially new ones, don't even have this.

This can show how some players react when they have become convinced they are getting shafted by a casino, even if there was never any intent to do so by said casino. So many players are routinely shafted by the rogues, who then go largely unpunished, that it has created the impression among players that any casino, however well respected, could decide to do this to a player. When a large sum is involved, players can let their emotions dictate their immediate reactions, which is often the WORST course of action they could take.

Rather than "let rip" with the "nuclear option" straight away, a steady acceleration of pressure is needed. This gives the operator enough time to review the case, and the steady acceleration of determination from the player shows the operator that there will be no backing down, and that any escalation will be well thought through before being enacted, which will make it more effective. Players should also indicate that they are well versed in the correct procedures, such as letting them know that eCogra asks that 14 days be allowed for the operator to resolve the matter. This tells them that a threat to go to eCogra has not just been pulled from the player's ass in an emptional outburst, but that they have been to the eCogra site, read the guidance for making a complant, and that when it comes, it will be well presented and properly sumbitted. This should have the effect of making the operator look again at any evidence it has, and what eCogra would decide when presented with it. During this whole process, forum postings should be kept to a minimum.

Players should also realise that many issues like this are dealt with by staff who only work normal office hours, so no progress is likely to be made at weekends or public holidays.
 
Hi dadnazza666

I received your PM this morning and I am busy looking into your complaint. As other posters stated, I do not work weekends and your PM was sent 02:40am yesterday.

I will get back to you as soon as I have a reply

Regards

Wim
VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

To all players,I got home from the beach and found not only Wims letter,emails also from FL CS saying docs accepted.I note that within ONE hour of Wims post here I was paid $4110 into my skrill account.Thanks FL for your speedy resolution,I will definitely continue as a patron of FL as had good experiences there for years prior.Yes,I was upset and yes,I probably did let emotions get the better of me.Too anyone I may have either upset or possibly offended,I apologise.No harmful intent was meant.To those who sided with what I was concerned with I thank you.Next time anything like this occurs I have a better understanding of how to approach things thanks to everyones posts.Thanks all,Paul. P.S If ive forgotten anything could someone throw me a hint.Terms and conditions at all casinos in regards expired cards needs to be reviewed.
 
That is great you did receive your withdrawl, but maybe you should be saying sorry for the threats. Banks aren't open on weekends and you shouldn't expect reps, to work weekend either. All it took was patience, and you didn't have any. As you are a long standing memeber at this casino, you should have known that you would get the matter resolved. You should have known that they would work with you not against you.

I can't play at this casino because I am from the USA, but I have seen where they have a good reputation and you posting this on the 3rd and getting your money on the 5th is pretty damn good. So I ask you, why all the threats? You did not even give the rep a chance to reply.

Just my 2 cents, I know no one asked for but I gave it to ya anyway.
LH
 
To all players,I got home from the beach and found not only Wims letter,emails also from FL CS saying docs accepted.I note that within ONE hour of Wims post here I was paid $4110 into my skrill account.Thanks FL for your speedy resolution,I will definitely continue as a patron of FL as had good experiences there for years prior.Yes,I was upset and yes,I probably did let emotions get the better of me.Too anyone I may have either upset or possibly offended,I apologise.No harmful intent was meant.To those who sided with what I was concerned with I thank you.Next time anything like this occurs I have a better understanding of how to approach things thanks to everyones posts.Thanks all,Paul. P.S If ive forgotten anything could someone throw me a hint.Terms and conditions at all casinos in regards expired cards needs to be reviewed.

The current terms do not even mention the case of old and expired cards vs current cards actively being used. There is a wide ranging set of terms that more or less allows casinos to demand whatever documents they deem fit. The problem is not just one of old cards, many players suffer because their own country does not issue the types of standard documentation that many countries can be taken for granted, and it can be assumed that EVERY citizen would be able to produce. The UK and Canada are two such countries that didn't adopt a national ID card scheme, which leaves many players without any form of official documentation that bears their photo. The needs of the online industry were not taken into account when such decisions were made, only whether the national interest was best served by an expensive ID card scheme, or a cheaper database scheme, with photo documents only issued where there was a need, such as the new UK driving license, where the photo was aimed at cutting a test fraud where someone paid someone else to take and pass the test on their behalf.
Players using virtual and gift cards have also run into this problem, with them being asked to provide a back and front image of their virtual card.

I wonder what the future holds with the advent of payment by text message, I can just imagine the email "before your withdrawal can be processed, our finance department requires a scan of the back and front of your phone":D
 
That is great you did receive your withdrawl, but maybe you should be saying sorry for the threats. Banks aren't open on weekends and you shouldn't expect reps, to work weekend either. All it took was patience, and you didn't have any. As you are a long standing memeber at this casino, you should have known that you would get the matter resolved. You should have known that they would work with you not against you.

I can't play at this casino because I am from the USA, but I have seen where they have a good reputation and you posting this on the 3rd and getting your money on the 5th is pretty damn good. So I ask you, why all the threats? You did not even give the rep a chance to reply.

Just my 2 cents, I know no one asked for but I gave it to ya anyway.
LH

No worries m8,as I said I do apologise for anyone offended.
 
To all players,I got home from the beach and found not only Wims letter,emails also from FL CS saying docs accepted.I note that within ONE hour of Wims post here I was paid $4110 into my skrill account.Thanks FL for your speedy resolution,I will definitely continue as a patron of FL as had good experiences there for years prior.Yes,I was upset and yes,I probably did let emotions get the better of me.Too anyone I may have either upset or possibly offended,I apologise.No harmful intent was meant.To those who sided with what I was concerned with I thank you.Next time anything like this occurs I have a better understanding of how to approach things thanks to everyones posts.Thanks all,Paul. P.S If ive forgotten anything could someone throw me a hint.Terms and conditions at all casinos in regards expired cards needs to be reviewed.

:thumbsup: Good stuff, glad you got it all sorted.

In the future everyone should try to remember that most reps don't work weekends, so if you have an issue, please try to be a little patient. (Lord give me patience and give it to me RIGHT NOW!) :)
 
:thumbsup: Good stuff, glad you got it all sorted.

In the future everyone should try to remember that most reps don't work weekends, so if you have an issue, please try to be a little patient. (Lord give me patience and give it to me RIGHT NOW!) :)

Even the army couldnt get my patience sorted out,lol.Might have to join yoga class or the like.
 
:thumbsup: Good stuff, glad you got it all sorted.

In the future everyone should try to remember that most reps don't work weekends, so if you have an issue, please try to be a little patient. (Lord give me patience and give it to me RIGHT NOW!) :)

Ya right Dragon. If you dont exercise patience you will soon become a patient.
 
I'm glad the OC confirmed the player was long standing and everything worked out well for the OP. :)

I find it odd that they request every past deposit form vs. the current one, maybe someone can explain the reasoning in another thread, or here.

If you're a player player at an OC and never win for a long period of time, it only makes since that you wouldn't have access to expired credit/debit cards but should be able to verify the recent deposit method.
 
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I'm glad the OC confirmed the player was long standing and everything worked out well for the OP. :)

I find it odd that they request every past deposit form vs. the current one, maybe someone can explain the reasoning in another thread, or here.

If you're a player player at an OC and never win for a long period of time, it only makes since that you wouldn't have access to expired credit/debit cards but should be able to verify the recent deposit method.


This is what worries me as a player. Just how far back can they go, and why. I am not convinced that asking for a 2 year old card when all current cards and docs were verified was necessary. What is to say that 2 years is the limit, since before this I thought the most it could be was 6 months, the limit for making a chargeback. Even making scans before destroying the card is not a guaranteed protection, as you could get the "too dark, too bright, unclear" runaround and be unable to scan the card again after so long.
The industry needs to get a grip on common sense, which tells them that a legitimate player is going to be honest not just with the casino, but with their banking, and will do as required by their bank to protect themselves from fraud. Banks here used to demand the card be cut in four and returned, but now they will accept confirmation of destruction from the customer without proof in most cases. This means cutting the card up and throwing it away as soon as the new one arrives, or the account is closed. If worried, they could insist on another documentary proof of CURRENT circumstances, or even insist on posting something to the address to confirm it is genuine. Many just send the withdrawal as a cheque to the address.

Here in the UK, moves to phase out cheques have been shelved since there is nothing that can fully take their place. They were going to be abolished in 2018. UK players at least can continue to be paid by cheque for the forseeable future.
 

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