600+ reasons not to play at Dash

[Rusty]

It would not surprise me at all if MG slots are weighted, after all, even a child can see that the 3-reel slots are weighted, so why not the 5 reel?
Take for example TR2, the Global Adventure bonus.
The first 4 passports always drop within the first 50 spins, then you wait forever for that last one to hit.
I went well over 700 spins once (multiple sessions) to hit that last passport on reel 1!!

Centre Court, another one thats weighted, has nobody ever noticed that there are tennisballs added to the reels at certain points in the game?
Ever since that November update the reels are spinning so slow that I can watch every symbol pass by, and reel 1 and 5 have sometimes 1, sometimes 2 tennisballs on them.
And I'm almost sure that during the high paying freespinrounds there are more stacked wilds on the reels also, 2 sets of 3 instead of 1.
Dynamic weighting, yes I'm sure it happens, but does this mean the games are rigged?

Absolutely.
Anyone can observe these things.
Play World cup and you have the same effect sometimes you will have 1 whistle on reel 5 sometimes 2. hit a decent free spin round and back to 1 whistle. It is that obvious but still it is klike banging my head against a walll most of the time.
Thank you for your observation and the valid point you make.

 

[Rusty]

Just to chime in real quick - what you are seeing is only the animation. It has nothing to do with the outcome of the spin. When you click "spin" the outcome has been made via the random number generator. The spinning and other bells and whistles are only there to entertain you. Nothing is really spinning, it's but an animated illusion.

True but not quite complete.
The reel strip animations have to correspond to the result of the RNG and any algorithm in place that may seed the result.

You can either have an artificial blur effect and just display a final animation or you can have virtual reels. MG and RTG have virtual reels and no artificial blur effect for the most part(some exceptions) therefore they need to animate the reel from start to stop position.

It is true that the animation has no effect on the result but not true that the result has no effect on the animation.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Can't really see what your evidence is? I play slots a fair bit and have had a good number of 50% return sessions. This sort of stuff is pretty normal. You can go 75% over long wagering too. This is what slots do. They are games of high variance.

Sorry you lost and for the boring answer. I have had a bunch of sessions like this but also some very unlikely wins. Hopefully you will get some soon.

 

[Rusty]

Can't really see what your evidence is? I play slots a fair bit and have had a good number of 50% return sessions. This sort of stuff is pretty normal. You can go 75% over long wagering too. This is what slots do. They are games of high variance.

Sorry you lost and for the boring answer. I have had a bunch of sessions like this but also some very unlikely wins. Hopefully you will get some soon.

I know it is fairly common to get these sessions but they are only normal within the system you are playing.
If I gave you a Casino with the exact same slots and stripped away all the bullshit that controls the RTP and variance you would notice a very big difference in how they played.
If played both versions for a long time and you made graphs from your play data and compared them what you would find is that the overall RTP is similar but the peaks and troughs (win/losing streaks) were much less amplified on the slots without the weighting.

It is hard to make a clear distinction between weighted slots and rigged slots, probably why the Casinos and software companies keep quiet on the subject.
As has been pointed out 3 reel slots use weighting but there are no cries of rigged. I am not sure why that is but probably because 3 reel slots are less complicated and people understand how the weighting is used to alter the probability of different stop positions being selected (such as the bonus symbol on reel 3).
One thing that should show you though is that the RNG is secondary to the weighting. Or to put it another way you can have a perfectly fair RNG but a rigged slot.

I am not making that distinction much clearer am I?
That is because wherever slots are weighted the scope for cheating/rigging is increased but not necessarily a fact.
To make that point clear ask yourself how often the bonus reel should appear on the 3rd reel of that 3 reel slot.
Don't know? (There is no way to find out)
Then you don't know if it is rigged do you.

When we extend this to 5 reel slots with scatters that trigger not only bonus rounds but free spins you can imagine the weighting gets far more complicated.
Bonus rounds will offer a prize of between (min) X and (max)Y amount.
How is that prize determined?
More importantly we are led to believe that wins are generated in real time in free spin rounds. Not a chance - they operate in much the same manner as bonus rounds. Is that a fair game?

As for 9 lines and variance with Scrooge I will put that in perspective to make it even clearer.
If I was playing one line and that variance was "normal" I would be hitting 3 of a kind or better once in around every 300 spins.
That means, for example, that if the slot had an even 20 symbols on each reel (the slot will have more than this and different reel strip lengths)and 1 wild and 1 scatter on each reel my probability of hitting 3 of a kind or better (with wilds) would be;
Where s=any symbol and W=wild and X = specific symbol
Where reels 1 to 5 are separated by commas and winning combinations are in brackets

W,W,S,S,S = (1X1X19*X20X20) = 7600
S,W,W,S,S = (19*X1X1X20X20) =7600
W,S,W,S,S = (1X19*X1X20X20) =7600
W,S,X,S,S = (1X18X1X19X19) = 6156
S,W,X,S,S = (18X1X1X19X19) =6156
X,W,X.S,S = (1X1X1X20X20) =400
W,X,X.S,S = (1X1X1X20X20) =400
X,X,W.S,S = (1X1X1X20X20) = 400
*19 because scatter blocks the winline, 18 because wild already calculated

Then we need all the natural wins where we match 3 or more of any 3 symbols.
X,X,X,S,S = (?X?X?X20X20)=?

This depends on the reel layout and how many of each symbol exist on each reel (the nitty gritty of natural variance) Scrooge has 13 symbols including Wild and scatters with lowest win paying a very lowly 60 coins (this suggests this slot has low natural variance not high by the way)

We are only making a rough example here though and I will actually be very kind and calculate for only 1 of each symbol (20 different symbols) which will make the total win combinations greatly less than would normally be the case.

so;
X,X,X,S,S = (1X1X1X20X20) =400X18 (all symbols except wild & scatter) =7200
Just to point out how much higher this figure would be in reality, if a symbol had 3 instances on reel 1 and 2 instances on reel 2 and 2 instances on reel 3 and n amount on the last 2 reels the winning combinations for that symbol alone would be 4800!

So our slot on a full cycles has 3.2 million combinations (20X20X20X20X20)
Winning combinations of 3 of a kind or more=43,512

3,200,000/43,512 = 73.54 which would be our expected hit frequency playing 1 line and 8.17 playing 9 lines.

The vast majority of slots have a higher hit frequency than this to improve playability and this is achieved by micro payouts for most 3 of a kind combos (less than bet)

To achieve 34 blank spins from 35 playing 9 lines is a massive anomaly, especially when you consider the timing of the streak.

So many people who talk about slot variance and how it is achieved (natural or weighted) are really without a clue what they are talking about.(That is not aimed at you Geezer)


The point of all that is to show how natural variance works and should be incorporated into the slot through reel layout, award amounts, likelihood of feature triggers and expected feature value.
With the current software we have a mock version of this with the variance being manipulated behind the scenes via algorithms that dynamically weight the probability of feature wins and even outcome of each spin.

For me Scrooge is a rigged slot because it oversteps the boundary of just weighting feature probability to weighting probability of wins.
That is what compelled me to post again above and beyond my normal campaigning to get rid of weighting, to point out this very cynical approach by MGS to software design.

I once again wish all the forum and Mods a very merry Christmas and a Happy new year. See you in the Spring.

 

[Nifty29]

Some interesting stuff in this thread.

@Rusty - I see what you're saying about weighting/design etc, but if a weighted slot pays out 95% the same as another unweighted slot, then what is the difference? If the RTP is the same, then there will still be the same winners and losers, only the variance would be artificial in the weighted slot.

So, again, what is the difference between a slot with natural variance and one with artificial variance, if the RTP is identical? In my experience, its the RTP that determines whether or not a slot is worthwhile playing, not the variance. What we as players should be demanding from operators is what the RTP is for every slot - how they achieve isnt relevant as long as the RTP holds true (for me anyway)

As for RTG, I remember Dogboy stating a few times that the reels are 'true' and are not weighted - so maybe they are a better choice for you?

After all, at the end of the day, even if we slot lovers ALL understand completely how different slots work and how they manipulate outcomes etc etc, we will still keep playing them. Why? Most of us play them for entertainment and the chance of a win, not simply as a way to make money. In fact, as far as making money from gambling is concerned, slots are about the worst choice of game along with Keno and Scratchcards.

As I said, its a great discussion, but mostly academic if one is going to continue playing regardless, which I assume most of us will.

 

[AussieDave]

@Rusty...Mate without blowing smoke up your #ss you know I think your a worthy member of CM and contribute some top stuff.

But I think you need to find a new hobby!

My favourite slot is Break da Bank Again and I play at 32Red.

Over the last 2 days I've sunk $4K into it. Total withdrawals $1,300.

Like Deck the Halls and Scrooge, BDBA is also high variance.

I've experienced sessions in the last two days that would make your eyes bleed. However that's gambling for you.

On the other hand I've got multiple winning screen caps in the Winners thread that amount to over $40,000 in the last few months.

If you were playing some dodgy lame ass casino then I may entertain the thought that the place is rigged. But come on Mate...Your saying Dash is serving up dodgy games

As I said you contribute some good stuff to the forum but this is not one of those times. Give the gambling a rest because I don't think it's doing you any good.


Cheers

Dave

 

[De Beuker]

Some interesting stuff in this thread.

@Rusty - I see what you're saying about weighting/design etc, but if a weighted slot pays out 95% the same as another unweighted slot, then what is the difference? If the RTP is the same, then there will still be the same winners and losers, only the variance would be artificial in the weighted slot.

So, again, what is the difference between a slot with natural variance and one with artificial variance, if the RTP is identical? In my experience, its the RTP that determines whether or not a slot is worthwhile playing, not the variance. What we as players should be demanding from operators is what the RTP is for every slot - how they achieve isnt relevant as long as the RTP holds true (for me anyway)

Why are the classic 3 reel slots weighted?
To make them more attractive.
And more addictive.
I forgot where I read about this, but they did a test once with slotplayers, and this test showed that a slotplayer gets the same adrenaline/dopamine rush in the brain from a near-miss as from a win.
Thats why you see so many jackpots just beneath or just above the winline, to keep you going.
Thats why the slots need these streaks, to make the play more attractive.

About BDBA, Dave, do you really think natural variance can create these impossible long dry spells, and these massive winning streaks this slot shows?
For thousands of spins you won't see the wilds anywhere, then all of sudden they are all over the place and the game starts paying like crazy.

 

[KasinoKing]

I would say I disagree with you about TR2 as I have gone 900+ spins (thus far) without hitting the required passport. Not at Dash but at another MG. That is so far outside expected variance it is crazy.

Just a quick point as I have to dash (no pun intended!);

Like I said, I reckon there is very strong evidence that TR2 has up to 200 symbols per reel.
If so, you not getting the passport on 1 of the reels in 900 spins would be out by x4.5

Imagine a huge roulette wheel with 200 numbers, and you need to hit just 1 of them.
Is 4.5 x the average "so far outside expected variance it is crazy"?
I don't think it is.

Sorry, I know I've said this before, but you will never prove your "weighted" or "Manipulated" theory until you provide some solid evidence - so far you have produced just a few short losing sessions, and proved nothing.
e.g. What Kimss and Zoozie did was plot out the reels of Thunderstruck, put it through a simulator, and worked out the theoretical return is 95.05% - now that is proof.

KK

 

[Rusty]

Some interesting stuff in this thread.

@Rusty - I see what you're saying about weighting/design etc, but if a weighted slot pays out 95% the same as another unweighted slot, then what is the difference? If the RTP is the same, then there will still be the same winners and losers, only the variance would be artificial in the weighted slot.

So, again, what is the difference between a slot with natural variance and one with artificial variance, if the RTP is identical? In my experience, its the RTP that determines whether or not a slot is worthwhile playing, not the variance. What we as players should be demanding from operators is what the RTP is for every slot - how they achieve isnt relevant as long as the RTP holds true (for me anyway)

As for RTG, I remember Dogboy stating a few times that the reels are 'true' and are not weighted - so maybe they are a better choice for you?

After all, at the end of the day, even if we slot lovers ALL understand completely how different slots work and how they manipulate outcomes etc etc, we will still keep playing them. Why? Most of us play them for entertainment and the chance of a win, not simply as a way to make money. In fact, as far as making money from gambling is concerned, slots are about the worst choice of game along with Keno and Scratchcards.

As I said, its a great discussion, but mostly academic if one is going to continue playing regardless, which I assume most of us will.

Fair points and most people will keep playing them regardless of whether they know they are weighted or not which is why all software is weighted, players put up with it.
Most people do prefer the extreme streaks that weighting delivers lower lows, higher highs, that is why it is there as De Beuker points out.

It may be that the slot delivers the same RTP which may seem fine but you need to ask yourself how that RTP is made up and what are the conditions that govern the streaks.
If you found out that the slot you had just lost on was actually only set at 60% RTP for that session and your chances of triggering the feature were much reduced and even when you hit the feature the win would have been guaranteed poor would you still be happy with managed variance?

If you found out that your win streak could only max out to a certain level before being reigned in would that still seem fair?

Sure other times the opposite will be true and the books will be balanced but that does make it ok?

Playing online slots is like buying a batch of scratch cards.
In the end you will end up with the total amount of winnings in that batch.
No more, no less.
You can chose any order to play the cards and scratch the symbols in any order too but it won't make any difference you have already won or lost and you are just revealing which.

In a B&M casino slots are not so different except other people add to the take of the slot and the slot registers each in/out as anonymous so if you play at the right time you can win and choose another slot and get lucky all over again.
How is the in/out calculated with online slots and do you think you are registered as anonymous each time you load a slot?

Hey, you enjoy your experience and are happy with the set up and that is fine. I just want people to know the reality.

@Rusty...Mate without blowing smoke up your #ss you know I think your a worthy member of CM and contribute some top stuff.

But I think you need to find a new hobby!

My favourite slot is Break da Bank Again and I play at 32Red.

Over the last 2 days I've sunk $4K into it. Total withdrawals $1,300.

Like Deck the Halls and Scrooge, BDBA is also high variance.

I've experienced sessions in the last two days that would make your eyes bleed. However that's gambling for you.

On the other hand I've got multiple winning screen caps in the Winners thread that amount to over $40,000 in the last few months.

If you were playing some dodgy lame ass casino then I may entertain the thought that the place is rigged. But come on Mate...Your saying Dash is serving up dodgy games

As I said you contribute some good stuff to the forum but this is not one of those times. Give the gambling a rest because I don't think it's doing you any good.


Cheers

Dave

Your opinion carries as much weight as mine certainly and there is nothing wrong with disagreeing but you need to address the evidence.

I am saying that MG are serving up a dodgy game and giving you examples of why and a thorough and clear explanation as to how it works.
Your argument to that is, "Hey it is 32Red group, you know that Casino that opened an orphanage and sponsors World peace so the payouts must be 99% and the games legitimate so I will ignore the evidence"

By the way even the most respected B&M Casinos have been guilty of nefarious tactics to get the last Cent out of punters and even today they will employ every measure possible to maximise profit at your expense so please lets not pretend that any Casino is the paragon of integrity and decency.
That said 32Red/Dash are better than the majority I agree and will try to keep good public relations and make good will gestures. They are in no way to be associated with some of the dodgy Casinos you are talking about.
Perhaps you have misunderstood what I am saying.
They are not doing anything any other online Casino is not and no doubt are happy with the set up they have with MGS.

Why do you think Scrooge is a high variance slot by the way?
Scrooge would have low natural variance certainly.

The evidence that the slots are weighted is there in your own playlogs if you really want it but that is no big deal in itself except I think it is unethical. The evidence any slot is rigged is thinner and Scrooge is the first one I have come across that gives strong evidence of this.
It appears to cynically use the carrot and stick routine by drawing out the final trigger for the feature which means the results are being filtered.
If true then it is rigged whether the RTP is 50% or 99%.

Anyway, there was never a truer saying, 'You can lead a Horse to water but you can't make it drink.'

I am involved in other things at the moment so I can't put the time into this I would like so I will leave it at this.
As has been said, people will do what they do regardless and I will still play myself sometime in the future to see if anything has changed.
If people enjoy the games as they are and are happy then I guess I should be thankful we live in a perfect World and wish you all well.

 

[Rusty]

Just a quick point as I have to dash (no pun intended!);

Like I said, I reckon there is very strong evidence that TR2 has up to 200 symbols per reel.
If so, you not getting the passport on 1 of the reels in 900 spins would be out by x4.5

Imagine a huge roulette wheel with 200 numbers, and you need to hit just 1 of them.
Is 4.5 x the average "so far outside expected variance it is crazy"?
I don't think it is.

Sorry, I know I've said this before, but you will never prove your "weighted" or "Manipulated" theory until you provide some solid evidence - so far you have produced just a few short losing sessions, and proved nothing.
e.g. What Kimss and Zoozie did was plot out the reels of Thunderstruck, put it through a simulator, and worked out the theoretical return is 95.05% - now that is proof.

KK

It has been proven over and over and over and over again but if you wear blinkers you can only see the way you are looking.
The following is a good example of how you have a closed mindset.

What Kimss and Zoozie did was plot out the reels of Thunderstruck, put it through a simulator, and worked out the theoretical return is 95.05% - now that is proof.

That is proof of what?
All that proves is that the design is not out of kilt with the published returns.
I think MGS would have to be pretty stupid to do anything else especially after it was shown that the early 5 reel slots had left the proof of weighting in.

Mind you Moonshine has a symbol combination that has higher probability of 3 of a kind that pays more than another combination (unless it has been corrected since) hardly a mistake you would make id designing the RTP from the ground up.

You are a good egg KK but I would stake my life that the slots are weighted, that is how certain I am.
Whether Casinos cheat by changing the RTP is whole other subject that can be up for debate but weighting is a fact.

I am away from the forum again now for quite a while probably but have a great Christmas and all the best to the family.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Rusty you clearly care hugely over this issue. I had to print off your post above as it is very complex. It's a bit too much for me after only one beer tonight .

In general I can see what you are saying though. My 2c is that I can see why even though the RTP is the same, weighting may be used. Perhaps there is an issue between the back end design and the graphical representation. Could it be to do with the fact that players will continue to play more if they see near misses? So the reason for the weighting is to improve the exitement factor?

You could be right in that this weighting increases variance but does not affect the thoeretical RTP. It's an interesting theory.

It is good you are keeping vigilant on this.

 

[RobWin]

Rusty you clearly care hugely over this issue. I had to print off your post above as it is very complex. It's a bit too much for me after only one beer tonight .

In general I can see what you are saying though. My 2c is that I can see why even though the RTP is the same, weighting may be used. Perhaps there is an issue between the back end design and the graphical representation. Could it be to do with the fact that players will continue to play more if they see near misses? So the reason for the weighting is to improve the exitement factor?
You could be right in that this weighting increases variance but does not affect the thoeretical RTP. It's an interesting theory.

It is good you are keeping vigilant on this.

DiamondGeezer, I think you hit the nail right on the head there. IGT 3-Reels Slots in land based casinos have been doing this for years now and there was even a study done back several years ago regarding the player psyche and emotions involved when they are playing a slot machine and continuously see these near misses and how it affects their playtime as in continuing it. I will see if I can dig that one up this week.
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[KasinoKing]

DiamondGeezer, I think you hit the nail right on the head there. IGT 3-Reels Slots in land based casinos have been doing this for years now and there was even a study done back several years ago regarding the player psyche and emotions involved when they are playing a slot machine and continuously see these near misses and how it affects their playtime as in continuing it. I will see if I can dig that one up this week.

That's a completely different kettle of fish - that's like trying to compare a Hedgehog to a Tiger!
We're talking about 5-reel bonus video slots in this thread - not 3-reeler's.

Of course 3 reel slots are weighted, I don't think anyone is questioning that.
Most of them have a small number of symbols per reel with blanks between each one, because of this and the weighting you are always bound to see a lot of high-paying symbols in the window, but not on the winline.

Slots in land-based casinos (the old ones, with physical reels) have to be weighed, it would be impossible for them to be truly random without spinning in a very bizarre way!

- - - -

Back to one of Rusty's issues - I have decided to have a go at plotting the reels on TR2 to find out the exact probability of getting the Global Bonus so we can decide if that slot is weighted or not.
I could be some time...

KK

 

[RobWin]

That's a completely different kettle of fish - that's like trying to compare a Hedgehog to a Tiger!
We're talking about 5-reel bonus video slots in this thread - not 3-reeler's.

Me thinks you missed the plot of my response to DiamondGeezer there my friend..

I never stated anything where I was trying to compare 3-Reel Slots to 5-Reel Slots...

I was simply responding to DG's question regarding the psychology behind "near misses" that I highlighted in Red in my post above, where he asked....

Could it be to do with the fact that players will continue to play more if they see near misses? So the reason for the weighting is to improve the exitement factor?

And I responded.....

DiamondGeezer, I think you hit the nail right on the head there. IGT 3-Reels Slots in land based casinos have been doing this for years now and there was even a study done back several years ago regarding the player psyche and emotions involved when they are playing a slot machine and continuously see these near misses and how it affects their playtime as in continuing it. I will see if I can dig that one up this week.

Slots in land-based casinos (the old ones, with physical reels) have to be weighed, it would be impossible for them to be truly random without spinning in a very bizarre way!

No they don't, the only reason they have ever been weighted since the late 80's was in fact to only show the near misses...what makes you think they have to be weighted in the first place just in order to spin properly?

Unless of course you are talking about the extremely old ones that are considered antiques now, the ones that were mechanical and electrical as well and they didn't operate from a RNG sequence as the modern day slots do...is that the one's you are talking about there?
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[RobWin]

In the Classic "Mechanical & Electrical Slot Machine" the parts and pieces worked as such :

* The handle rotates a hook mechanism, which grabs hold of the kicker, pulling it forward (toward the player).

* A catch on the opposite end of the kicker grabs a control cam piece and pivots it forward. This rotates a series of gears connected to the control cam. A spring pulls the control cam back to its original position, but the gear assembly slows it down considerably -- the gears act as a mechanical delay.

* When the control cam is pivoted forward, it releases a spring-mounted cam plate extending across the back of the machine.

* The control cam also pulls the stoppers away from the notched discs. As the kicker keeps moving, it pushes the stoppers against several catches on the cam plate. These hold the stoppers in place, so the discs and reels can rotate freely.

* As the handle continues to move the kicker, the kicker paddles push the discs forward briefly. When the handle is pulled all the way back and the kicker has passed the discs, the bottom of the hook mechanism moves up against a slanted surface. The slant pivots the hook forward, which causes it to release the kicker.

* The kicker spring jerks the kicker backward at a good speed. The kicker paddles hit the notches on the discs, spinning the reels rapidly.

* While all of this is happening, the control cam is slowly returning to its original position. When it does return, it pushes the cam plate back, which releases the stoppers. The different catches holding onto the different stoppers are positioned so that the cam plate will release the stoppers one at a time. Each stopper springs forward and locks into a notch, holding the reel in position.

From the player's point of view, here's how it looks. The player pulls the handle. There is a clunk, and the three reels start spinning. Then the three reels stop abruptly one at a time, followed by the payout (if necessary). The "stopping one at a time" part builds suspense. If the first reel stops on the jackpot symbol, then you have to wait for the next reel to stop to see if it is a jackpot, and then finally the third. If all three display the right symbol, the player wins.

Conventional mechanical slot machines eventually turned into electrical machines that worked on similar principles. In an electrical machine, the reels are spun by motors and the stoppers were generally activated by solenoids, but the game basically plays out the same way. Electrical machines had more sophisticated money-handling systems, like those you might find in a vending machine, and flashier light and sound displays.

In both types of systems, once the reels have come to a stop, the slot machine needs to read whether the player has won or lost.

______________________________


The Computerized Slot Machines Using RNG's

Most modern slot machines are designed to look and feel like the old mechanical models, but they work on a completely different principle. The outcome of each pull is actually controlled by a central computer inside the machine, not by the motion of the reels.

The computer uses step motors to turn each reel and stop it at the predetermined point. Step motors are driven by short digital pulses of electricity controlled by the computer, rather than the fluctuating electrical current that drives an ordinary electric motor. These pulses move the motor a set increment, or step, with great precision!

But even though the computer tells the reels where to stop, the games are not pre-programmed to pay out at a certain time. A random number generator at the heart of the computer ensures that each pull has an equal shot at hitting the jackpot.

Whenever the slot machine is turned on, the random number generator is spitting out whole numbers (typically between 1 and several billion) hundreds of times a second. The instant you pull the arm back (or press the button), the computer records the next few numbers from the random number generator. Then it feeds these numbers through a simple program to determine where the reels should stop.
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[Nifty29]

Max - can we please change the thread title?

Dash has done absolutely nothing wrong here and it doesnt read well at first glance, especially for a newbie.

 

[KasinoKing]

No they don't, the only reason they have ever been weighted since the late 80's was in fact to only show the near misses...what makes you think they have to be weighted in the first place just in order to spin properly?

OK, imagine a 5 reel slot with physical reels, each with 20 symbols on them.
They all start spinning together.
These reels would be about 1 foot diameter - you must have seen them...
When you play a slot, the reels stop; plop, plop, plop, plop, plop - what, about 0.4 seconds apart?

The first reel stops, lets just say on the Jackpot symbol.

At the moment reel 1 stops, the jackpot symbol on reel 2 is 10 spots away from the win-line.
No problem, 0.4 seconds later it plops onto the winline.

At the moment reel 2 stops, the jackpot symbol on reel 3 is 5 spots away from the win-line.
0.4 seconds later it has gone past the winline!
So in order for that symbol to get back to the winline, the reel would have to do another whole revolution.

And so on for reels 4 & 5.

If these slots were truly random the reels would have to spin at noticeably different speeds, or the reels would stop at noticeably different time intervals.

So what I'm saying is these slots can't be truly random in the same way that online slots can; because online slots don't have physical reels, each one can land on ANY symbol with no detectable difference between one spin & the next.
Online you have an equal chance of hitting the jackpot on every spin - with physical slots you don't.
They can still be random, but in a different way.

KK

 

[threescatters]

Deck the halls is incredibly swingy! My gf hit 150 from a 30p spin during normal play on it, I also lost a huge amount playing on 60p a go just trying to get the feature It happens.........its random luck.....

 

[threescatters]

also I agree thread title is unfair to dash, they are a pretty good casino imo