40% RTP Question, When to quit a site?

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
Hello,

I am not going to name the casino because it doesn't help. But I have a quick question about RTP. My RTP at a site I play at is 40.4% for this month thus far. I have lost tons of money and they just say "I hope your luck turns soon" I have won in the past at this site, but it seems like a complete waste of time now.

It was only 743 spins which they say is not enough data to determine anything. But in that 743 spins I didn't even get 10x bet once or (1) bonus game.

Isn't that a good amount of spins on a particular slot to have a large sample?

Cosidering leaving this site forever.

Any thoughts?

Should I consider dumping in more money? I think I have lost around 2000 or so this month at this site.

Thanks
 

anddi32

Meister Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Location
Finland
Cosidering leaving this site forever.
700 spins in few bad sessions and you are going to abandon the casino?
It's called bad luck. the casino has nothing to do with your bad luck
If you think your luck will change by changing the casino go ahead. It is called superstition
 

satchnz

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Location
Essex, UK
Yeah 700 spins isn’t enough to come to any real conclusions, but I’d be fairly pissed off too if I didn’t hit anything over 10x for that number of spins.
 

pokerdan

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Location
LA
Was just asking. Don't need the negativity. Was an honest question. What is a good amount of spins to determine an RTP?

Thanks
 

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
700 spins in few bad sessions and you are going to abandon the casino?
It's called bad luck. the casino has nothing to do with your bad luck
If you think your luck will change by changing the casino go ahead. It is called superstition

My luck is fine everywhere else thanks... Was an honest question about RTP!!! Just rrying to find out what a good sample size is. And yes, if I decide to ABANDON the site I will.. My RTP is around 90% everywhere else I play. I like to get more fun for my money.

Never said it wasn't bad luck either. Obviosuly it is. Just trying to figure out how bad the luck really is.
 
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paul7388

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glasgow scotland
My luck is fine everywhere else thanks... Was an honest question about RTP!!! Just rrying to find out what a good sample size is. And yes, if I decide to ABANDON the site I will.. My RTP is around 90% everywhere else I play. I like to get more fun for my money.

Never said it wasn't bad luck either. Obviosuly it is. Just trying to figure out how bad the luck really is.
Honestly I would maybe give it a couple more tries and see how it goes and if still poor then change.

Saying that as some days are just rotten. I do okay at site I mainly use. But get days where I play a slot that I like and do deposit after deposit till i quit and never get a bonus or decent win and that is on a slot that normally bonuses often . But then play it again next day and it plays okay again. Either bad luck or some on here would say it was just getting its money back lol.
 

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
Honestly I would maybe give it a couple more tries and see how it goes and if still poor then change.

Saying that as some days are just rotten. I do okay at site I mainly use. But get days where I play a slot that I like and do deposit after deposit till i quit and never get a bonus or decent win and that is on a slot that normally bonuses often . But then play it again next day and it plays okay again. Either bad luck or some on here would say it was just getting its money back lol.

Thanks for the response. Yeah i do agree. I know it is sometimes just bad. But it is has been bad for a while at this site. MY RTP is generally areound 65% or so playing here. But I am still playing and just avoiding certain games. I just think 40% RTP is pretty dang low. But maybe it is not enough of a sample.

I guess 10000 spins would be a better sample size for a true RTP. maybe 100000 spins. I dunno.

But I am just playing other sites for now.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Was just asking. Don't need the negativity. Was an honest question. What is a good amount of spins to determine an RTP?

Thanks
Somewhere in the region of 10 million, allegedly.

What providers ensure, is that nobody will ever play enough spins on a game to be able to prove something is wrong.

Don’t tell me the Casino is Videoslots. :laugh:
 

KasinoKing

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Somewhere in the region of 10 million, allegedly.

What providers ensure, is that nobody will ever play enough spins on a game to be able to prove something is wrong.

Don’t tell me the Casino is Videoslots. :laugh:
99.9999% sure Pokerdan lives in America - so it's not gonna be Videoslots!

It's probably an RTG casino. But wherever it is, 700-odd spins is definitely no where near enough to asses overall RTP.
I mean, if you did 700 spins and a big win meant your RTP was 200%, that doesn't mean you've found your money tree! :D

KK
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
Hi Dan,

Well it does largely depend on the game/s you're playing but as others have said 700 is no where near enough even on a low variance game. I would recommend in the ball park of at least 50,000 spins before drawing any conclusions.

Remember all games that have a feature will have a RTP distribution in them so if your not getting your average amount of features and the feature RTP makes up 35% - 45% of the RTP as an example your going to expect that reduction in your overall RTP If a game has 95% RTP and 35% is feature based then without any features depending on volatility you could be anywhere around the 60% + /- maybe even up to another 20%+ or - on small sample of spins.

I have also found over the years no matter what I do some games just hate me, sure its the same for others, that run way below % no matter how many spins, DOA1 and 2 spring to mind for me never had a wild line on either yet my mate is running at over 150% RTP even after hes played over 100,000 plays ( most likely due to the multiple win lines hes had) the lucky bas***d

I have over the years found some casinos that just seem to be so unlucky as well so maybe a change wouldn't be a terrible thing to try but only you can decide the best course of action.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
99.9999% sure Pokerdan lives in America - so it's not gonna be Videoslots!

It's probably an RTG casino. But wherever it is, 700-odd spins is definitely no where near enough to asses overall RTP.
I mean, if you did 700 spins and a big win meant your RTP was 200%, that doesn't mean you've found your money tree! :D

KK
I thought, he might be on holiday. :D
 

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
99.9999% sure Pokerdan lives in America - so it's not gonna be Videoslots!

It's probably an RTG casino. But wherever it is, 700-odd spins is definitely no where near enough to asses overall RTP.
I mean, if you did 700 spins and a big win meant your RTP was 200%, that doesn't mean you've found your money tree! :D

KK
Yeah, I am in America. It could be RTG :) Apparently some of the games are high variance. Been playing the new Nine Realms game. Not one bonus game in about 900 spins now.

I did switch sites and get the bonus a few times. I won 2000 on it at CasinoExtreme a few days ago but could only cash 1200 because of thei max cashout on bonus.

But this also happened to me at another provider as well. About 750 spins on one their “High Varisnce” slots. Same thing. 40% RTP.

I guess its just not a good sample size on a high variance game.

Some games are just not worth playing if the base game is pointless. Only winning if you get a bonus is not worth it IMO.
 

ChopleyIOM

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Given the amount you've lost relative to the number of spins you've done, you seem to be playing at pretty big bets relative to your bankroll?

As an example, at 3Dice my comfort zone to ride out a rough patch on a slot is a balance of 500x my stake, and even then it can still go wrong. Arctic Adventure can definitely eat through 500x stake without much of a kickback if you catch it wrong, as can Enchanted Spins.

So if playing $2 spins, I'd want a bankroll of $1000 before setting about a slot there.

Also remember that if you're playing games with a progressive, a chunk of RTP is given over to the progressive, so if you don't hit one of those, you're basically playing a game with an RTP of 90-91%. (Or sometimes less in the case of Microgaming for example, where the RTP of the game less the progressives is 88% on the Mega Moolah slots.)

Either way your spin sample size is far too small to draw any conclusions, as has been well explained by others above.

Again using 3Dice as an example, I got off to a horrendous start on Artic Adventure when it was first released, and it chewed through a lot of deposits, (I remember repeatedly asking for my RTP on the game from CS and it stuck around 88-91% for a long time, but over time it moved towards expected RTP and IIRC last time I got my stats from 3Dice it was pretty much bang on.)

Any decent casino chain will be able to pull your lifetime stats for you, so I'd ask at this casino for your lifetime stats and see what the numbers are - ultimately, long term stats are the only ones that really matter when it comes to trying to draw any sort of conclusions for this sort of thing.
 

anddi32

Meister Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Location
Finland
Hi Dan,

Well it does largely depend on the game/s you're playing but as others have said 700 is no where near enough even on a low variance game. I would recommend in the ball park of at least 50,000 spins before drawing any conclusions.
50k spins should be enough if game is low variance stuff. RTP should be pretty close to what was announced (10% in one direction or the other at most). It's really hard to say how many rounds are needed in a high variance games. My Lil devil stats say 150k spins and RTP 96.4% so it's almost excactly as stated. But hard to say whether it's volatility leveling or just luck. 25k spins in Razor shark this year and my RTP is a little over 80% so really far from what was announced. Bad luck and still continuing.

Sure millions of rounds are needed for the return to fully level out but where is the level when player can see the first signs about the equalization of the RTP. And i mean high volatility games. That's a good question.

But whatever the game is player needs a five-figure amount of spins at least before any deeper analyses
 
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rena35

Meister Member
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Feb 17, 2012
Location
cyber space
I don't know much about RTP but if you feel like a break is in order take one. I just came back from a big break . Not just because of game play but it was a factor. As far as dumping in more money , I wouldn't unless I felt comfortable doing it. I hope your luck changes Dan and you get on a good streak .
 

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
Yeah, I am in America. It could be RTG :) Apparently some of the games are high variance. Been playing the new Nine Realms game. Not one bonus game in about 900 spins now.

I did switch sites and get the bonus a few times. I won 2000 on it at CasinoExtreme a few days ago but could only cash 1200 because of thei max cashout on bonus.

But this also happened to me at another provider as well. About 750 spins on one their “High Varisnce” slots. Same thing. 40% RTP.

I guess its just not a good sample size on a high variance game.

Some games are just not worth playing if the base game is pointless. Only winning if you get a bonus is not worth it IMO.

50k spins should be enough if game is low variance stuff. RTP should be pretty close to what was announced (10% in one direction or the other at most). It's really hard to say how many rounds are needed in a high variance games. My Lil devil stats say 150k spins and RTP 96.4% so it's almost excactly as stated. But hard to say whether it's volatility leveling or just luck. 25k spins in Razor shark this year and my RTP is a little over 80% so really far from what was announced. Bad luck and still continuing.
Sure millions of rounds are needed for the return to fully level out but where is the level when player can see the first signs about the equalization of the RTP. And i mean high volatility games. That's a good question.

But whatever the game is player needs a five-figure amount of spins at least before any deeper analyses
This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks so much for the detailed post. I will be coming back to this post many times in the future. I am now up to aboout 1400 spins with no bonus on the new RTG Nine Realms game at one RTG site. The other sites I play it on are hitting more constant.

I did manage 13/15 characters on a spin for 100x bet on the base game wiith no bonus round. So I think you can hit ok on the base game as well. Not as bad as it seemed. So I guess more spins has increased my RTP up to around 70% now. So it will eventually even out.

It is a high variance game obviously. so with that in mind. I guess you get what you pay for.
 

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
I don't know much about RTP but if you feel like a break is in order take one. I just came back from a big break . Not just because of game play but it was a factor. As far as dumping in more money , I wouldn't unless I felt comfortable doing it. I hope your luck changes Dan and you get on a good streak .

I think you and I are in the same boat Rena :) seems like we both go through this every year. LOL. Hope you are doing well. Good to see you back aorund.
 

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
Given the amount you've lost relative to the number of spins you've done, you seem to be playing at pretty big bets relative to your bankroll?

As an example, at 3Dice my comfort zone to ride out a rough patch on a slot is a balance of 500x my stake, and even then it can still go wrong. Arctic Adventure can definitely eat through 500x stake without much of a kickback if you catch it wrong, as can Enchanted Spins.

So if playing $2 spins, I'd want a bankroll of $1000 before setting about a slot there.

Also remember that if you're playing games with a progressive, a chunk of RTP is given over to the progressive, so if you don't hit one of those, you're basically playing a game with an RTP of 90-91%. (Or sometimes less in the case of Microgaming for example, where the RTP of the game less the progressives is 88% on the Mega Moolah slots.)

Either way your spin sample size is far too small to draw any conclusions, as has been well explained by others above.

Again using 3Dice as an example, I got off to a horrendous start on Artic Adventure when it was first released, and it chewed through a lot of deposits, (I remember repeatedly asking for my RTP on the game from CS and it stuck around 88-91% for a long time, but over time it moved towards expected RTP and IIRC last time I got my stats from 3Dice it was pretty much bang on.)

Any decent casino chain will be able to pull your lifetime stats for you, so I'd ask at this casino for your lifetime stats and see what the numbers are - ultimately, long term stats are the only ones that really matter when it comes to trying to draw any sort of conclusions for this sort of thing.

In response to the 3dice games. The other site I had the 40% RTP on was indeed 3dice. It was on Odins Revenge. But that game itself states its a GOLD game. SO I didn't post about that because I know the dangers of the volatility in relation to those games.

I don't even touch Arctic lol. ;)

My biggest wins are on 3dice. But those are mianly on Battle of Bastogne and the MAXI hits. I think I have hit the Maxi like 3 times.

Not a fan of the sitewide.. but thats a different topic all together.

I have no issues with my 40% RTP on 3dice. I chose that Odin game with all the warning signs lol. 3Dice is one of my FAVS. I love the community and support.

But RTG is not usually that hard to hit on IMO. 40% RTP on RTG is new for me.
 

casguy2016

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Location
Canada
700 spins isn't enough but having said that I would stop playing a game if 700+ spins didn't result in 10x a spin amount at least once...actually i probably would give up much sooner than that on a game and never touch it again....but maybe that's just me. as for bonuses that doesn't matter as much as you may think although they are fun....i mean what's better a bonus that's 13x your wager or a normal spin that gives you 20x your wager? I've seen bonuses that give you 0x and i've had normal spins that's given me 100x+
 

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