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3Dice- Transparency Please!

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by prindi, Nov 14, 2014.

    Nov 14, 2014
  1. prindi

    prindi Senior Member

    Valencia, CA
    Enzo! Please take a few minutes and come address a few questions please? I am trying to understand the process of the random generator, the certification and what it all means.

    Enzo, you said in a post in April here at CM that Angle Gaming should be on Itechs website as a recent customer. It is. So, what does that mean exactly?

    1. Does that mean that all the games are randomly tested? If so is that once per month as they recommend?

    2. Does that mean that only the more recent games that have been released are under them?

    3. Is Angle Gaming 3Dice? But a different division? I guess I just don't get it.

    4. I think I recall Happy Valley as one of the original slot games. Is that with Itech Labs?

    5. What about cards? I don't see anything relating to cards on Angle Gaming FB or such.

    6. Are the card games audited by Itech Labs? If cards is randomly tested, and something doesn't fly, how would we the customer know?

    Others asked back in April about the fairness of the software and the software integrity. Is that a separate certificate or is that was something that was included with the RNG and then they also mentioned software audits and software integrity.

    Please be patient with all my questions and give me an idea of the process...I just want clarification. I think I wasn't clear when I tried this at CM in April. After your initial response I responded back saying that I was still confused and still didn't get it. Another player also stated she didn't understand either. Hopefully this is easier for you to understand and respond to.

    I do appreciate your time in advance! Thanks!
    1 person likes this.
  2. Nov 14, 2014
  3. 3Dice

    3Dice I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Hi Di,

    I'll do my best to answer your questions as accurately as possible. Understanding the technical details of a testing procedure however means understanding the intricacies of the underlying model and math so it is not an easy task and does require some background knowledge in math, computer software, etc ..

    While I'm (as always) more than happy to dive into the tech details and math - keep in mind that these testing certificates are there exactly to keep that burden away from consumers. iTech labs holds licenses to perform audits and testing for a wide range of gaming jurisdictions (including the most stringent ones - check their site) - it is iTech that determines for each of the certificates they deliver what type of testing, code signing, code review, etc is required in order for them to deliver a certificate and publish it as current. From the consumer point of view each of these certificates links back and is published on the iTech labs website, this way the
    consumer can at any point verify that it is indeed a valid certificate that has not been revoked.

    - switching to geek hat -

    One important concept when it comes to verifying current validity of certificates is the concept of code signing. So lets take a quick look at how that works. Let's say a testing house tests the RNG of a software provider. To do so they will typically require the RNG to be delivered to them as a separate source code file. They will review the code and run an entire battery of tests (typically for a RNG these are called the Marsaglia die-hard tests) that guarantee that the RNG indeed produces an unpredictable, uniformly distributed sequence of random numbers. Once these tests are performed they will generate what is called a secure signature on the code file. These signatures (typically SHA) are based on a mathematical trick that guarantees that if you change even one bit in the original file, that the signature will also change. From that point on the testing house can
    always verify whether or not the RNG still indeed has the same signature as the one they reviewed and certified.

    The RNG testing that iTech labs performed for 3Dice includes not only the Marsaglia tests, but also included a review of the code that is used to shuffle card decks, calculate reel stop positions, throw dice, roulette numbers etc. (all this information is included in : You must register/login in order to see the link.).

    Testing labs typically provide all sorts of other services to, ranging from documentation review, monthly in/out reviews (required by some jurisdictions for tax purposes), game rule review, and typically many more.

    So as to your specific questions :

    1. the rng, and how it translates to card decks, dice, roulette numbers, slot reel stop positions etc is certified for all games. The RNG code is signed and that signature is current.
    2. no, all AGL games use the same core 'engine' to generate their cards,dice,slot reels. So this applies to past and future games.
    3. no, 3Dice had an exclusivity contract with AGL for the first few years but this has ended. We've always had an excellent relationship and have worked together closely - I understand the confusion but they're different entities.
    4. Happy Valley also uses the certified RNG and reel-stop code. (why the question about HV ?)
    5. Card games and shuffling for 2,4,6 and 8 decks w and w/o jokers has also been verified .. all AGL card games use the same 'card deck' engine. Tested and code-signed.
    6. see 5

    Hope to have answered your questions, feel free to ask more if needed,

    17 people like this.
  4. Nov 14, 2014
  5. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    If you don’t understand it makes sense to go on authority.

    Recently I changed my utility companies with the goal of saving money.
    I understand the ins and outs of ISPs and phone companies but I know nothing about electricity providers so I went on authority.
    I went to an independent government funded comparison site and entered in the details of my last electricity bill and found the cheapest one based upon the information they provided.

    Unfortunately there is some trust involved when going on authority.
    I would trust them with smaller things like; online casinos, electricity companies etc.
    But not the larger things like; going to war (taking human life.) In these cases it’s better to delay the decision until you know for sure it’s right.
  6. Nov 14, 2014
  7. weesie

    weesie Ueber Meister

    Old bag lady with a laptop

    I seem to remember a question about "certification of games" and the frequency that the games are certified to be random.

    Wasn't there a question about why the "certification" on the games were so old? (A few years)

    And, are they supposed to be "re-certified" every year or two?

    I wouldn't even know where to look for this information.
  8. Nov 14, 2014
  9. cpdnd31

    cpdnd31 Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    where the taxes are the highest
    I believe if they were signature coded from the testing lab they would not have to be re-certified. If anything were to change the signature line would change and the testing company could pull license. I think I'm correct Enzo?
    1 person likes this.
  10. Nov 17, 2014
  11. prindi

    prindi Senior Member

    Valencia, CA
    I have to apologize for how long it took me to reply. I struggled with this and really didn't know where to begin.

    First off, thank you! I appreciate the time you took to explain this to me. You know the saying I bit off more than I can chew? I'm not kidding when I tell you I probably read this at least 250 times and probably closer to 300 before I got some of it....ummmm I think! ( you know I'm slow!) For example, I now completely understand your response from my thread back in April ....so what does that tell ya?

    I do want to answer your question about HV. I asked about HV specifically for 2 reasons, maybe 3.

    I wanted to know if the original slots were on the certification. I was almost certain that HV was one of the original games, if not I know it came out shortly after. When I researched Angle Gaming, I found only the recent slots pictured on their fb website.( Artic, Enchanted, Candy, Kyoko, Skunks, Squirrel Zombie Halloween Edition.) so I was unsure if HV was being included in that certification. You answered my question in more than one spot.

    Going back to question 1. The signature code is starting to penetrate. I read that its like parking 30 cars in a parking lot really close together...if you drive a few of cars off and you re park em it wont be the same so its changed. At what point is the signature code gonna beep its horn and say he buddy! Get out of my car you need a license to drive this! When does Itech come in and check that? I understand they hold the secure signature code in their files. Is there some kind of red light alert with siren that goes off if Lance tries to impress his new girlfriend and has her sign up with a free trip down fortune falls x1600? Or does Itech have to be paid to do a random check, or monthly audit? I am not understanding that communication...as for ziggy, is that one of the services that you pay Itech for? Do you send in players logs to them so they keep track of rtp?

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