# 3Dice Roulette: Random?

#### LooneyTunez

##### Newbie member
So, I'm playing some free tournaments on 3Dice, and one is for roulette. Okay, so I place my bets and start spinning. Not thinking much of it, I just rebet the same, over and over. After a few spins, I see that I've landed on the same number twice in a row. Now, I'm not a numbers guy, but what are the odds of it landing on the same number twice in a row? I keep spinning the the same bets, and it continues to land on the same numbers, often times where I have a bet placed on that particular number. The odds of this in the real world would be astronomical, so this makes me think it's not random, but more likely set up like a slot machine, where a certain payout percentage is expected. I did screenshots to show the patterns. Does this seem odd to anyone?

#### refre

##### Senior lurker
PABnonaccred
PABnoaccred
Not really.
Chance of a number repeating itself is 1 in 37.

Freddy

#### Simmo!

##### Moderator
Staff member
Not really.
Chance of a number repeating itself is 1 in 37.

Freddy

On that basis, in your screenshots it happens 7 times, so you would expect to see 7 repeats happen every 259 spins (37 * 7) on average. But obviously it *could* happen in 7 times in 10 spins or 7 times in 1000 spins.

#### LooneyTunez

##### Newbie member
So, are we saying this is within the parameters of odds (randomness) to have the same numbers come in pairs like in the screenshots? Like two 10's, another couple numbers, two 32's, another couple numbers, two 24's, etc? Seems like the odds of that type of grouping would be unrealistic.

I have also noticed that when I play Red Dog at 3D, I can miss several times on the biggest spread, only to have it save me shortly later with nailing the one card with 5:1 or 11:1 payouts (and almost predictable) This isn't even just once in a while, it's like the software is monitoring what it's paid out, and dishes out what it needs to maintain a particular payout percentage. I understand that it's nearly impossible for a computer/software to be truly random, but this type of behavior seems to have swings that are unnatural.

#### aceking123

##### Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
hi i play alot of roulette at 3 dice when i get the chance this is within the normal rounds , i happen to find roulette at 3 dice very fair in real money plays , couldnt tell you about tournaments as i dont play them too much , but ive had some good rounds playing real money also had some bad ones too ,but they seem fine to me .

#### GrandMaster

##### Ueber Meister
CAG
So, I'm playing some free tournaments on 3Dice, and one is for roulette. Okay, so I place my bets and start spinning. Not thinking much of it, I just rebet the same, over and over. After a few spins, I see that I've landed on the same number twice in a row. Now, I'm not a numbers guy, but what are the odds of it landing on the same number twice in a row? I keep spinning the the same bets, and it continues to land on the same numbers, often times where I have a bet placed on that particular number. The odds of this in the real world would be astronomical, so this makes me think it's not random, but more likely set up like a slot machine, where a certain payout percentage is expected. I did screenshots to show the patterns. Does this seem odd to anyone?
The probability of 7 or more numbers being the same as the previous one in a list of 60 roulette outcomes is about 0.001, so it is definitely unusual. Now you have a hypothesis, so collect more data for testing.

#### Simmo!

##### Moderator
Staff member
The probability of 7 or more numbers being the same as the previous one in a list of 60 roulette outcomes is about 0.001, so it is definitely unusual.

1 in a 1,000 doesn't sound so unusual to me to be honest. We could be sitting here talking about getting consecutive numbers 7 times, or back-to-back reverse numbers happening 7 times, or back-to-back numbers that appear next to each other on the table etc etc.

I reckon you could pick out pretty much any sequence of 60 numbers and spot a pattern that occurs a few times in it. Just that the same number pattern is easy to spot.

#### Glunn11

##### Full Member
You can't draw any conclusions from a few sets of numbers, I'm afraid. Also, the odds of getting four zeroes in a row are the same as getting 17, 12, 29, then 6 (in order, of course). While seeing 4 zeroes in a row may cause players to be amazed, I hardly imagine that there would be any player who is amazed at the latter sequence showing up.

For instance, let's say you had a \$100 bankroll and you wagered \$1 at a time. If you placed a straight bet on 00 in American roulette (which, if I am not mistaken, has a house edge of 5.26% and a standard deviation of 5.76), there is a 9.6% chance that you won't hit a single win before you go bust (according to
). The odds are certainly not "astronomical."

Furthermore, if 3Dice was rigging American Roulette of all games (which has a natural theoretical return of 94.74% or so), that would be pitiful.

#### Simmo!

##### Moderator
Staff member
...American Roulette of all games (which has a natural theoretical return of 94.74% or so)...

Something I've always wondered. Does ANYONE play American Roulette online? And if so, why that instead of European?

#### Glunn11

##### Full Member
Something I've always wondered. Does ANYONE play American Roulette online? And if so, why that instead of European?

No idea. I've always wondered that myself. It may be that some incredibly naive gamblers think that European has different rules, or that "it's only just one more space on the wheel -- how much damage can that really do?" mentality.

If I remember right, however, 3Dice American Roulette does have a special rule where half of even-money wagers are returned if 00 is landed on (but not 0). This would decrease the house edge from 5.26% to 3.95%, but even then that's not nearly as good as 2.7% house edge from European roulette.

#### X-Raided

##### Keep It Simple, Stupid.
PABinit
I have also noticed that when I play Red Dog at 3D, I can miss several times on the biggest spread, only to have it save me shortly later with nailing the one card with 5:1 or 11:1 payouts (and almost predictable) This isn't even just once in a while, it's like the software is monitoring what it's paid out, and dishes out what it needs to maintain a particular payout percentage. I understand that it's nearly impossible for a computer/software to be truly random, but this type of behavior seems to have swings that are unnatural.

I've also noticed this type of behavior playing Red Dog at 3Dice.

I would have an Ace and an X card on numerous occasions and land an
Ace or an X in the middle, especially when I'm ahead. And Also, I noticed many
back to back 5:1 too. Hard to beat.

Only when I'm doing very, very bad and losing huge money, almost down
to nothing, I will sometimes get 3 of a kind.

#### Seventh777

##### RIP Roy
This is a perfect perception of a point I was trying to make many months ago regarding TSII>RNG>Achievements, if, as was, and still is, the case, as to why the top payout achievements are the last to be hit, even though we are led to believe each spin is calculated by the RNG Gods, and therefore it has been calculated before hand that 5 scatters/wilds are the very last to be attained by the player, then in laymen terms it is not RNG is it?, otherwise the roulette spins in each block of 37 spins would show every number from 0-36.

Some food for thought...... Sometime ago those people whom we shall name as statisticians, wanted to find out how many people would have to be in a room, for two of them to share the same birthday (not date) ie: - May 4th, the answer is ....... 36.

Pure randomness follows absolutely no structured path whatsoever .

Those numbers look fine to me, and it`s a shrewd gambler whom always bets on the last number rolled .

#### rockycatt

##### meistercatt
help me here i think if you load the top of the board 0,00,1,2,3,and quint plus
all the split lines at the extreme top of the board

i think the biG win is 8,000.00 \$ FOR A 500.00\$ BET

now how does the european roulette size up to that play

and correct me please if im off [ ty R C ]

#### Glunn11

##### Full Member
help me here i think if you load the top of the board 0,00,1,2,3,and quint plus
all the split lines at the extreme top of the board

i think the biG win is 8,000.00 \$ FOR A 500.00\$ BET

now how does the european roulette size up to that play

and correct me please if im off [ ty R C ]

I'm assuming you're talking about the roulette tournaments on 3D and getting the best chance of a big return. For the \$8,000 for a \$500.00 bet, it's certainly not worth the nearly doubled house edge, since in European, you can win \$7,200. Pick a single number in the middle of the board and bet straight-up, bet on surrounding splits, street, and \$50 on each square bet.

You can test the probability of a certain play style leading to a target with a simulator (like the two-tier simulator on
).

For this example, I'm assuming \$2500 starting bankroll, peak balance wins, and everyone but you has no chance of beating the leader. The current leader has a peak balance of \$17,000. Using the aforementioned European roulette strategy, the simulator states that you can expect to win 11.62% of the time.

I was going to run a simulation of the \$8k win on 3Dice's American roulette, but I couldn't figure out exactly how you set up your chips to get it. The fact that I'm attempting to write this after midnight may have something to do with that.

#### StaceyLee

##### Dormant account
The only suggestion I can make LooneyToonz is that it is because of this repetition that betting strategies are devised and can be successful in "winning" more than "losing".

Where's Love2WinaLot and RouletteGuy - maybe do a search of some of their threads to find the listing of numbers to hit in a 111 spin sequence i.e. theoretically every number should hit 3 times, but of course doesn't, therefore some numbers are going to hit more that 3 times. It is this "guarantee" that a "successful" betting strategy is evolved around.

P.S. In my betting sequence when I hit one of my selected numbers and it is at the time of a change, I always spin "one for luck" in case it is a "double". And although I have recorded thousands of spins I have not found a strategy to capitalize on the doubles, (yet!) as of course, when they are going to occur is not predictable. But it is sweet when they appear within your routine.

Good luck
Cheers
StaceyLee

#### LooneyTunez

##### Newbie member
I'm not suggesting that any cheating is going on with the software at 3D, and the games are playing fair, it just seems the algorithms used for their RNG cause some pretty drastic swings in order to stay within the parameters of the odds.

#### refre

##### Senior lurker
PABnonaccred
PABnoaccred
I'm not suggesting that any cheating is going on with the software at 3D, and the games are playing fair, it just seems the algorithms used for their RNG cause some pretty drastic swings in order to stay within the parameters of the odds.

Definition of cheating right there
The RNG doesn't have to "cause some pretty drastic swings in order to stay within the parameters of the odds" (even though they will happen naturally). Provided you have a big enough player base and a true RNG, it will take care of itself. The HE will take care of the casino lol.

Freddy

#### MangoJ

##### Dormant account
So, I'm playing some free tournaments on 3Dice, and one is for roulette. Okay, so I place my bets and start spinning. Not thinking much of it, I just rebet the same, over and over. After a few spins, I see that I've landed on the same number twice in a row. Now, I'm not a numbers guy, but what are the odds of it landing on the same number twice in a row? I keep spinning the the same bets, and it continues to land on the same numbers, often times where I have a bet placed on that particular number. The odds of this in the real world would be astronomical, so this makes me think it's not random, but more likely set up like a slot machine, where a certain payout percentage is expected. I did screenshots to show the patterns. Does this seem odd to anyone?

Probability of hitting 7 "pairs" in 60 independent spins is indeed quite small.

BUT please note that in the screenshot you are obviously not displaying 60 independend spins. Look at the first two rows, and the 3rd/4th row. They show exactly the same sequence of spinned numbers, so I guess you took the screenshot on the SAME spins.

Second thing is choice of screenshots. I guess you just did screenshots whenever a pair appeared. This is an highly biased sample which in fact proves nothing else than you found some pairs in roulette numbers.

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#### GrandMaster

##### Ueber Meister
CAG
Something I've always wondered. Does ANYONE play American Roulette online? And if so, why that instead of European?
Misguided patriotism or thinking that something American must be better than something furrin?
Furthermore, if 3Dice was rigging American Roulette of all games (which has a natural theoretical return of 94.74% or so), that would be pitiful.
Rigging a game to be more predictable would not be smart, it would give the player a massive advantage.

#### Cristian

##### Experienced Member
Uhm , you do realize that you are playing tourneys right ? From my experience tourney mode is waaaay different than real money play @ 3dice . You would think that you are playing the same game with same odds , but you are not . I`ve won quite a few roulette tourneys , and from my experience i can tell you this : it doesn`t matter what you bet and how you bet , if it`s your time to win , you will .