3dice - Poor Returns

Nate

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Ok so i signed up about 4 months ago because some people were raving about 3dice...

So let me tell you how it went.....

Customer Service - 3x better than any other Casino ive played at
Withdrawals - 3x Faster than any casino ive played at
Comps - 3x More than any casino ive played at
Payouts - 3 x Tighter/worse than any casino ive played at....

Well im almost falling off the bridge after having loyally deposting there for almost 4 months... Ive made very reasonable deposits... sometimes near 3-4k in a single session....

What have i won?

I've had a few great hits... best being a 350x bet on stickshifter for $3500 ..
Did in change how far down the hole i was? - No - Well in any event it took about $700 in $3 bets and when i upped my bet to Max ($10) out of pure frustration, i got the FS and hit the above...

Took on other slots with my Bankroll of $4000 - playing bets of $4.50 and it clean wiped me of about $2200 without a free spin - yeah seriously... I had to run for cover and tried other games.. anyways - the end result was a huge loss

I have subsequently deposited over 200 times (im certain) with my deposits being in the region of close to 15k thus far... Enzo and Anna were superb with the comps... and im serious that i received Tons of comps with No WR... What did i make of those comps? Squat....

See the thing is, when you deposit big amounts, small amounts, huge amounts or vary your bet accordingly, it doesnt make a difference at 3dice. I thought id stick the 'Bad Run' and id soon have a decent balance to boast about... Not so... There are plenty of hits in the Winners Screenshots, but they are misleading because you lose 95% of the time.... Well at least in my experience...

It doesnt matter what game you play - Low Variance / Medium variance / High Variance / Very High Variance - The end result is that the Slots are extremely TIGHT.... you could play 400-500 spins on a medium variance slot without once hitting a line win over 20x bet... You can even play on the lowest variance slot and not hit a free spin for ages... On the other hand you can play the same slot for 5 hours and only get a hit near the end..

There have been days where ive been fortunate to get a few hits to up my balance... those days are FEW and FAR between... So ive made Big bets (Max), small bets, medium bets and the end result is the same... u deposit - never go over your start balance 90% of the time and bomb out.

This is my personal experience - I know what slots i've played, how they've paid and what the end result was - dont be fooled by seeing that a players return on a particular Slot is 100% - The end result and what you cash out is what matters - As somebody hihlighted in another thread - You can have a RTP of 92% - doesnt necessarily mean that you have won or cashed out.

The Hits you get and a decent cashout every now and again is nice... but sadly doesnt happen often. Where is the entertainment value if you win on the first slot you play and lose on every other slot you play 99% of the time...

My last session was yesterday / today...

Match bonus - Balance of 150 ... Played for almost 10 hours on the balance with bets ranging from 80c to $1 .. Peaked at $320 .. lost that.. deposited almost $600 again... Peaked at $550 ... Lost that... Comps - Lost that - U ask why dont i cash out? If i wanted to win $150 and cash out, then id be wasting my time playing...

Well alot of you may have had positive experiences with 3dice, Nice wins and decent cashouts... My experience has been the worst thus far - In the end CS and Comps never count if you continually fail deposit after deposit... Comp after comp, day after day, month after month... Is lady luck on vacation or is there a deeper issue here?

The worse part is when your in chat and someone says WTG on a hit displayed ... X has won $Y playing Z game... What many people dont realise is that is probably took half your balance to hit that and you are still in the negative

Please be advised that i am stating MY EXPERIENCE and not trying to run 3dice down... I've ranted and complained and been comped - not afraid to say that... but the end result is well over $20 000 (Deposits / comps etc) in the negative in not even 4 months

Id love to remain loyal and say nice things but can i really? Anybody have similar experiences - care to share? Id appreciate comments ...
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
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I , too was of the same mind as you for a long time until I changed my play to reflect the way the slots reacted. I also quit playing all lines until I built my bankroll up...

25 lines-play 17
30 line-play19
9 lines-play5
15 lines-play 9

And it worked for me. After getting my bankroll up, I played all lines....but not till I made enough to make a difference...(close to tripling up my bankroll)

I used to go in gung ho thinking if I am going to hit big, I don't want to miss it so I bet above average of what I should have been betting all along.

I learned this from my husband...patience pays off..start low and slow and work it up...slowly...It works..but the sad thing is I do not have a lot of patience..I either want to win quickly (hit and run) or lose quickly...no in betweens.. I have always felt that, if lady luck is with you, she's with you, if she is against you then all is lost whether you play high, low, fast slow was my thoughts..

I have been training myself in patience and it is paying off...maybe trying it this way (there really is no right way to play slots imo) but there is no wrong way either. Some of my biggest wins have come from playing really slow and low...upping my bets as I won ...

I made out my $5 in comps into a $2800.00 win...did I cash out, yep...was it a thrill, yep...have I done it again..nope...but I have withdrawn a few times doing the slow, and low thing..when I get impatient..I drop hundreds quickly..and I have to rein myself in and make myself play in fun mode till I realize I can still win if I follow my plan...not when I go in a frenzy (but it feels so good while doing it)...we all deserve one of those every few withdrawals imo....the frenzy thing..especially when you are ahead..

So, the lesson I learned was...I had to find my own way and pace and my husband helped me a lot in that by watching him ..that used to drive me crazy (his slow, low, motion (playing))but the end result was always better for him than me..so, that is a lesson learned and followed...just thought I would share..

I enjoy 3Dice a lot and I have been frustrated to the point of closing my account (which I have done) until I gained a better perspective of my play habits..now, I still enjoy 3Dice in fun and realmode and without blame when times are tuff with them, because I chose to play there...

.
 
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Nate

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Hi Silc,

I appreciate your comments - TY :)

I have tried to adopt that approach at 3dice... Trust me, Tourney Wins, Comps, Deposits... Played min bets for hours on end.. the end result is always the same... Patience does pay off sometimes - the majority of the time it ends in you peaking about $10 above your start balance or eventually getting the FS and not even winning back a Third of what it cost to hit... I have some interesting RTP's on some games... way below the norm.. Played Thousands and Thousands of spins, wagered in the hundreds of thousands, so i dont think that the reflection is very inaccurate of what type of play im getting...

I speak to the Management often, and i have my days where i have a rant or 2... I have never been rude to anyone or disrespected anyone and when i share an experience on a Forum, it is usually that ive thouroughly played and have some substance before i even post...

last Session : $100 start balance - Balance up to $150 - played 60c bets plus comps to win a total of 0 and never peak above the start balance on 1 game...

Ah Well...
 

just play

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I don't care what anyone says, even Enzo, something has changed there, and it's not for the better.

High variance my booty, low variance is exactly the same there. There comes a time when 3Dice players realize this, sometimes it takes a while, sometimes it comes quick. I think luckily for you it came quick.

I like the games, and will probably still play there, but no way am I going to deposit like I used to. $20 lasting 5 minutes playing the very minimum bets, I would rather play $20 at RTG, it would certainly last longer than 5 minutes.
 

Nate

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I don't care what anyone says, even Enzo, something has changed there, and it's not for the better.

High variance my booty, low variance is exactly the same there. There comes a time when 3Dice players realize this, sometimes it takes a while, sometimes it comes quick. I think luckily for you it came quick.

I like the games, and will probably still play there, but no way am I going to deposit like I used to. $20 lasting 5 minutes playing the very minimum bets, I would rather play $20 at RTG, it would certainly last longer than 5 minutes.

I agree... Enzo advised me that the lowest variance game is infact payola... Last time i checked, My RTP was 86% .. thats really low for your lowet variance slot... and trust me ive had tons of spins on all varying bet sizes...

I wish that it had come quicker :eek2:

i also love the games and will play there but damn ive had bad bad bad runs there...
 

blacklabrador

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I don't care what anyone says, even Enzo, something has changed there, and it's not for the better.

High variance my booty, low variance is exactly the same there. There comes a time when 3Dice players realize this, sometimes it takes a while, sometimes it comes quick. I think luckily for you it came quick.

I like the games, and will probably still play there, but no way am I going to deposit like I used to. $20 lasting 5 minutes playing the very minimum bets, I would rather play $20 at RTG, it would certainly last longer than 5 minutes.

Now I am curious..... what kind of software do the use there? All the casinos I have played on lately have gotten very noticably TIGHT, and I mean TIGHT. I havent cashed out in 2 weeks and i play nightly. If things dont turn around I will delete them and stick to land based casinos.
 

Nate

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They use their own software - nice graphics... Great Games - Poor Returns (For Me)

I've lost at other casinos, but not at the rate i lose at 3dice...
 

blacklabrador

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Well can someone tell me what f-ing casino they are WINNING on? This whole board lately has been nothing but people talking about how tight all the online casinos have become. I think this might be the beginning of the end in the online casino industry. Them losing the US market crippled their profits. Yes we can still play if we jump through hoops, ewallets, etc etc, but most people just said screw it when they passed that ridiculous online gaming thing. The US doesnt have bigger fish to fry than people who enjoy gambling online? What a joke this country has become in the last 10 years.
 

Mavin1

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Not that I play anywhere anymore, but if I were to play, I would be a lot stricter with my attitude of playing.

What I have found playing like I normally do, if I deposit $50 and am up to $75, then cash out, it's $25 more than started with. My problem is I kept thinking if I got on a good roll I could get my $50 to $150, then why not to $350.

I can't tell you how many times I did get up to $350 and didn't cashout, thinking I hit the lucky streak and could build my balance up more. Streaks have become so "streaky", that I realized that when you get lucky enough to get above your deposit, even a little bit, cash it out. Because 9 times out of 10, if I didn't cashout that $350, it invariably always took it back. Didn't matter what casino, the end result was always the same.

If you study the winner screenshots, you will see for instance Rockycats shots, his wins are low, but he gets many of these low wins and I'm pretty sure he cashes them out. So sometimes as Silc said, you have to pace yourself and think small rather than big, because the big is very rare.

The winning screenshots should only be looked at as proof that people can win, not that any one casino is hot and loose, but winning is a possibility, just as losing is.

It is my opinion that upping wagers, also lowers your RTP, though this can't be proven no more than tighter RTP can be. But think about it, if the RTP were set for the penny player only, then the dollar player would be cleaning house all the time.

But then there will be that rare occasion, where no matter what, you have hit the day when the vault is open and you can't lose. But even at that, if you calculate how much money spent compared to that rare day of cashing out, have you gotten back your investment or just broke even?

So you do need to restructure your thinking on this type of "entertainment", to be satisfied with the small deposits and small wins for the biggest part, because that is what you will get more often.

A player can't keep throwing huge amounts of money into a casino and expect that the big deposits will reap big rewards, sometimes it can, but more often it won't.

Wish you great luck!
 

Nate

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Thanks Mavin1...

i dont dump big deposits and dont expect to win every deposit, but when u get to a stage where it doesnt matter what deposit or bet size you try, then its annoying and a very unpleasant experience for anyone.

Like i metioned before - Whats the sense in depositing $150 and running when u win $150? I value the entertainment and also any players aim is to have a 'Decent' withdrawal... If i deposit $500 and get to $1000 - thats more viable... That happens 1 in every 200 deposits

With that being said... What is an acceptable RTP on any given Slot? is 75% Ok? ...

RTP should change the more you up your bets... it works like that in land based casinos - The higher the denom - The better the RTP... The philosophy behind this is you cant let a player play your slots on high denoms and have the RTP of a 1c machine
 

Mavin1

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Thanks Mavin1...

i dont dump big deposits and dont expect to win every deposit, but when u get to a stage where it doesnt matter what deposit or bet size you try, then its annoying and a very unpleasant experience for anyone.

Like i metioned before - Whats the sense in depositing $150 and running when u win $150? I value the entertainment and also any players aim is to have a 'Decent' withdrawal... If i deposit $500 and get to $1000 - thats more viable... That happens 1 in every 200 deposits

With that being said... What is an acceptable RTP on any given Slot? is 75% Ok? ...

RTP should change the more you up your bets... it works like that in land based casinos - The higher the denom - The better the RTP... The philosophy behind this is you cant let a player play your slots on high denoms and have the RTP of a 1c machine


Agree, but no matter what casino you play, this will be the result 99% of the time. It's a sad fact that since the UIGEA thing, online gaming has drastically changed in every software out there.

The changes of the casinos pulling out of the US market has not only impacted the US players but have affected players worldwide and casinos as well. The evidence of this is the "tightness" of the returns from casino to player.

This is not made up, postings give plenty of evidence that playing online is nothing more than playing for the most part. It is getting so close to playing sites like Pogo, that you can't tell the difference other than Pogo is cheaper, but you still get no return.

Until things turn around in the laws and regulations or lack of, things are going to be on shaky ground, hopefully when all is done, online casinos and players can get back what they once had.

There was a time not to long ago that even here on the forum, it was kudos for this casino or that casino, don't even hear that anymore, this is also evidence of things having changed and not for the better.

So my thoughts are the online casino industry is going to implode, leaving very few solid casinos weathering the storm we are currently experiencing.

So as has been said, if you want real value for your money, do the land based casinos, at least you will have someone serve you a drink now and then.
 

Nate

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I know what u mean... Sometimes it feels like i am the only person playing at the casino... lol

Seems the Slots only loosen up when the loyalty days come... which in essence means that more people are playing and your chances are a bit better because you are not the only one taking on the machines cycle... Again, this is pure speculation from my part - but it certainly feels like it...

I would tend to agree that the UIGEA has definately affected Online operations to some extent....

I remember those days where you played and still had a chance to cash out a decent amount on a small deposit and not have to take ur $25 win off ur $25 deposit and run because the slot u just played will take $50 to give the feature again....
 

just play

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Well can someone tell me what f-ing casino they are WINNING on? This whole board lately has been nothing but people talking about how tight all the online casinos have become.


NONE!!! That's why there are so many posts. It's beyond ridiculous now, and like I said about 3Dice, the same goes for all casinos, players WILL realize it, some sooner and some later.


if you want real value for your money, do the land based casinos, at least you will have someone serve you a drink now and then

Yes, but for people like me (agoraphobic) or people who don't live close to casinos, it sucks!!!
 
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HadEnouth

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I've had to stop online gambling (Waiting to the recession is over).

I've played pretty much every online casino there is and they all have tighted there belts, The Casinos are getting greedy or they are not pulling enough money in, But one thing is clear, There payout is allot tighter, In fact almost Zero payout. (Just take take take take) It takes way over 200 spins now, just to even get a free spin feature. And the last session I played was the point i decided enough was enough. The slot game was hitting nothing, small crappy wins once and again, Wins were so bad, even when i was winning i was behind in the bankroll, I finely hit a free spin feature and it missed every spin and hit one small win 36p. (50cents) for 15 free spins i won 36p (50 cents). I was staking £1 ($1.60) a spin.

This been my experience in every casino for the last two or so months, Really bad returns. Crap wins in bonus or free spins features.

So I wont return to online gambling until it picks up again.
 

slotjunkie

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Washington State
I live 10 mins from one casino, 15 mins from another, 30 mins from another, 1hr from 2 different ones and so on! I will ONLY play at the land casinos!

It never feels weird, like you are being cheated and 98-99% of the time I win. Sometimes small, but most of the time when I go it is well worth it!
It is just that I can't go right now because I have been wiped out by online casinos:confused: so now I have to build my bankroll back up!

Also I don't see how the UIGEA has anything to do with the casinos choice to set their games to super low returns.
And from what I can see from the post(including countries not affected by the UIGEA) most players are complaining of how ridiculously TIGHT and scandalous the casinos are which has nothing to do with the UIGEA!

The UGIEA isn't affecting your loyal DEPOSITS, now is it!!!!!
 

gloria460

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May 11, 2008
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The casinos have tightened up considerably. Think about the food you buy now excluding the fresh veggies. The frozen pies are smaller, the bottom of the peanut butter jar has a deeper groove in it to deceive you, the rice krispie treats are so light now they're a joke:eek:, the can soup has more water than vegetables or meat and so on and so on. Everybody is cutting cost.

The industry has followed suit and have lowered their win lines. I had some excellent comps at one casino and I treated them very cautiously going from low to high and it made no difference.

This week I only deposited around 300 and I'm done. I've given the new MG casino about two months now and it's tighter than a love bug on a bumper. I'm hitting hard rock tomorrow and see if they're any better but online is a real joke right now. Limit your deposits or just get rid of them all together.

3 Dice has always been a joke to me.
 

skiny

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Not that I play anywhere anymore, but if I were to play, I would be a lot stricter with my attitude of playing.

What I have found playing like I normally do, if I deposit $50 and am up to $75, then cash out, it's $25 more than started with. My problem is I kept thinking if I got on a good roll I could get my $50 to $150, then why not to $350.

I can't tell you how many times I did get up to $350 and didn't cashout, thinking I hit the lucky streak and could build my balance up more. Streaks have become so "streaky", that I realized that when you get lucky enough to get above your deposit, even a little bit, cash it out. Because 9 times out of 10, if I didn't cashout that $350, it invariably always took it back. Didn't matter what casino, the end result was always the same.

If you study the winner screenshots, you will see for instance Rockycats shots, his wins are low, but he gets many of these low wins and I'm pretty sure he cashes them out. So sometimes as Silc said, you have to pace yourself and think small rather than big, because the big is very rare.

The winning screenshots should only be looked at as proof that people can win, not that any one casino is hot and loose, but winning is a possibility, just as losing is.

It is my opinion that upping wagers, also lowers your RTP, though this can't be proven no more than tighter RTP can be. But think about it, if the RTP were set for the penny player only, then the dollar player would be cleaning house all the time.

But then there will be that rare occasion, where no matter what, you have hit the day when the vault is open and you can't lose. But even at that, if you calculate how much money spent compared to that rare day of cashing out, have you gotten back your investment or just broke even?

So you do need to restructure your thinking on this type of "entertainment", to be satisfied with the small deposits and small wins for the biggest part, because that is what you will get more often.

A player can't keep throwing huge amounts of money into a casino and expect that the big deposits will reap big rewards, sometimes it can, but more often it won't.

Wish you great luck!

I have adopted something similar over the last year or so. I set my cash out balance depending on my bankroll. I increase it in 50 dollar increments as my bankroll increases but you have to be adamant about not going under it.

For example if my cash out balance is 100 and I go over 100 I play till I come back down to it. If I go over 150 I jump my cashout balance up to 150 and play until I come back down to the 150. That way if I go over the 150 I don't have to cash out right away but if I come back down to it I know it's time to quit.

This way lets me ride any winning streak and continue to build my balance up but when the winning streak ends the wagering gets nipped in the bud.

Now all I need is one of those winning streaks.:rolleyes:
 

Nate

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Now all I need is one of those winning streaks.:rolleyes:

Ive been waiting for them for almost 4 months... It's unbelievable how sessions I've had at 3dice... The staff are so friendly and do their utmost to help you when u have had a bad run...

But the issue is, you have a bad run - You get comped then you have another bad run. You deposit and have another bad run... and the cycle continues... bet size, bankroll and all other factors are irrelevant... I appreciate everyones patience - Ive tried that .. lol :eek:
 
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Mavin1

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Jun 19, 2009
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Arizona
I live 10 mins from one casino, 15 mins from another, 30 mins from another, 1hr from 2 different ones and so on! I will ONLY play at the land casinos!

It never feels weird, like you are being cheated and 98-99% of the time I win. Sometimes small, but most of the time when I go it is well worth it!
It is just that I can't go right now because I have been wiped out by online casinos:confused: so now I have to build my bankroll back up!

Also I don't see how the UIGEA has anything to do with the casinos choice to set their games to super low returns.
And from what I can see from the post(including countries not affected by the UIGEA) most players are complaining of how ridiculously TIGHT and scandalous the casinos are which has nothing to do with the UIGEA!

The UGIEA isn't affecting your loyal DEPOSITS, now is it!!!!!



Yes and online casinos should pretty much be the same as land based, but I do believe the UIGEA thing has affected the industry as a whole, meaning worldwide. The reason being that when it was passed, many of the softwares we really enjoyed, like Wagerworks, Intercasino and so many others, pulled out of the US market or face heavy penalties.

Now consider you're in business and half your customers are gone, will you not be affected? Will you not make changes to try to stay in business? The thinking has most likely always been, the customers will come and go, so the worry isn't with having customers, so business manuevers are shifted elsewhere, paying marketers, overhead and such. Afterall, most the player well has always been considered a bottomless pit.

Now if all the casinos that pulled out because of the US bluff, had done the same as RTG, MG and a very few others, then I seriously doubt things would have gotten to where it is today, with so many dissatisfied players across the planet.

Competition would still be alive and well, rogue lists would not grow as quickly as they have been, especially lately. There would be plenty of good reputable casinos flourishing and the majority of the players trust for the online casinos would rarely come into question. Once the trust was only shattered by the rogues, not it is being shattered even with those that go from Accredited to ?.

Why, because the bottomless pit of players is not bottomless afterall. Players and casinos both have been hurt by the dictatorial moves made by governments delving into areas that they have no business in.

If the government can't control something, they'll certainly go out of their way to ruin it for as many as possible. Tactics are, credit card blocks, banking blocks, wallet disruption and the list goes on. They are stabbing at everything all around the online casino industry to cripple it, break it and then will come in and regulate it as they see fit, but they have to break it first, much like what is being done to the US. Bring it to it's knees, then take it over, this is their idea of regulation.

As to the setting of RTP to a lower setting, they're most likely not and the reason my view on this has changed is as I have stated many times before, the player base is diminished, thus the RTP appears to be affected/changed.

There was a thread not to long ago, where Rusty, KK and others spoke of having to spin for example 10,000 times for x amount of a win, well if you have 10,000 players playing, it would roll around fast and frequently. Now if you have only 100 players playing, that 10,000 spins to get the fs or br will take much longer to acheive. This is evidence of a massively decreased player base across the board. With the fewer players playing, the coveted bonus rounds and freespins are not giving the big wins they used to, because the money is not coming in as it did before. They get less, we get less, it's dog eat dog only now the dog is eating itself.

If there were the same amount of players playing today as several years ago, then casinos being tight would not be the main topic of discussion. So since the UIGEA, yes there has been drastic changes that are directly related to this move. Many players most likely quit playing altogether, for fear of their banks reporting them or whatever, or because of the increased difficulty to deposit and withdraw.

So for the overall picture, casinos lose an entire continent full of players, then they have bonus banning with certain countries, which affects player attitudes negatively. Then they have server issues making off with funds? Leaving once reputable casinos with egg on their face and a huge deficit of funds that need to be paid to players.

Thus casinos are taken off the Accredited listings and players stop depositing with these casinos, which breaks them even more.

Players trust gets chipped away at on a continual basis until no trust is left and they quit, as I have done, but the industry does suffer, not because one player quit, but because many have.

The "tighter" play is evidence of this domino effect.

UIGEA affecting loyal deposits, only you can answer that for yourself to your own satisfaction, my opinion is yes it has.
 
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