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3Dice.com - first time deposit bonus wagering requirements are insane!

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by ChopleyIOM, Mar 31, 2012.

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    Mar 31, 2012
  1. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    I wouldn't describe myself as a bonus hunter, sometimes I'll take match-up offers from casinos I already play at when they're offered, sometimes I just deposit and play 'straight', and when I play at a new casino for the first time I generally make a judgement call on whether or not their first time deposit match-up offer is worth taking or not.

    (I should also note that I exclusively play slots, no card games or roulette or anything else, just slots.)

    Having heard quite a lot of good reports about 3Dice here at CM I thought I'd give them a go, and since I've never played there before I thought it'd be nice to get a good match-up offer on my first deposit as it gives a bigger bankroll and more time to get a feel for which slots I like, what the variances are like, and so on - since I'll be seeing all their slots for the first time.

    Unfortunately, the wagering requirements are 'off the scale horrible' IMO!

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    To put that into perspective, if you go for the maximum bonus of 110% of £100 (I'll be playing in UK pounds), a £100 deposit is matched 110% with £110, for a bankroll of £210 and wagering requirements of...... £6300!

    It doesn't take a genius to work out that you're basically setting yourself up for a wipeout if you take that offer. According to this page here - You must register/login in order to see the link. - the slots at 3Dice run to 95% RTP (well, just short of 95% but we'll round up for the sake of argument).

    In the simplest of terms, let's say that I play a single slot game at £1 per play, at a 95% RTP we can say that each spin 'costs' 5 pence, so a bankroll of £210 (21,000 pence) should 'buy' 4200 spins.

    4200 spins at £1 per spin equals £4200 wagered hence a bust out long before the wagering requirements are met, and before any withdrawal can be made.

    I appreciate that match-up offers have a WR attached to them for a reason, but to lock a new customer into a WR that guarantees a total annihilation of their bankroll if they get 'average luck' is a bit poor IMO, in fact, even 'good luck' would STILL see you wiped out if you take the 3Dice first time deposit offer.

    To get out of that 'bonus offer' with your original deposit intact, let alone any sort of profit, would require a sustained run of really good luck.

    Yeah I know the answer is 'well don't take the bonus offer then', but it's such a TERRIBLE offer that it's annoyed me and put me off playing at 3Dice at all.

    For comparison, at Jackpot Party (another CM accredited casino), you can get a 100% first time match-up up to £200, with just a 20x wagering requirement ONLY on the deposit amount, not the deposit and bonus combined. (If you do the maths on that one, you should meet the WR and still have your original deposit intact, which I think is a nice way to introduce new customers to a casino.)

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Oh well, looks like I'll be doing my Saturday night slotting at the old faithful 32Red instead :)
     
    4 people like this.
  2. Mar 31, 2012
  3. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    A great analogy, but, as like any deposit at any casino with a bonus or not, it all boils down to one aspect - Getting a big hit or not, I remember my 1st deposit at 10Bet £50 with a 75% deposit bonus = £87.50p with a x25 D and B w/r, I went on to make this and withdrew £2000, I know some of these horrendous w/r amounts can be harrowing if you hit big early on and burn out trying to make the w/r, especially if you go from slot to slot trying to find that slot with a variance that improves dramatically your chances of making the w/r.

    Nonetheless a great post :thumbsup:.
     
  4. Mar 31, 2012
  5. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    It might be high; I've certainly seen worse. I take al ot of bonuses, but don't at 3Dice but still play there quite a lot. IMHO, it's worth the $50 deposit alone to get all the free turnies for a month
     
  6. Mar 31, 2012
  7. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    This is why I try to work out the chances of meeting the WR on 'average luck' - and to my mind the simplest way of doing that is to work on the basis that each spin 'costs' 5% of the amount staked on that spin (where the RTP is 95%). Obviously the more spins you make, the better this theory works and the closer to RTP you'll achieve.

    As a general rule of thumb, any WR that is based on deposit+bonus is going to be a disaster for the player if they get average luck. And even if they get lucky and hit big, there's then, as you so rightly say, the harrowing experience of watching your win get chewed up by the WR long before you can withdraw.

    Personally speaking I'll very rarely go higher than a 25x WR on deposit alone, let alone deposit + bonus. (I may sometimes take on a 30x WR if the bonus match-up amount is high enough, but again, only if the WR applies just to the deposit amount.)

    So as you can see, 3Dice is totally off the scale for me, not even going to get a look in.

    Also, as an extra kicker, the WR at 3Dice is a 'hard' one, in that you can't withdraw ANYTHING until you've met the entire WR. At least at Microgaming casinos you have that 'clearplay' thing or whatever it's called, so that the bonus is transferred over in increments as you gradually meet the WR, which means you still have the opportunity to withdraw before the total WR is met.
     
    2 people like this.
  8. Mar 31, 2012
  9. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    Agreed, if only it were that simple to obtain the theoretical RTP when playing each slot, from the ultra high variance variety that yield a £95 hit just after you have ploughed £100 through them or the lower variance that constantly give little returns, and keep your starting balance topped upto around what is was when you began an hour or so ago.

    As we all know the theoretical RTP is based on a full cycle of every single spin that the particular slot in question is based on, and these all have millions of different combinations, even when playing slots with a low variance they each have a pretty high jackpot, Mermaids Millions for example is listed as low-medium variance yet still has a jackpot of x1500 (iirc) bet size = £225 if you hit x5 wilds in free spins for a .15p bet, all this is of course taken into consideration when working out the RTP and has 15 possible combinations, take a hit like this out of the equation and it leaves you with a mountain to climb when facing a w/r, unless you are going to have around 1.2 million spins and are lucky enough to hit 5 wilds in free spins then you will burn out playing low-medium variance slots in regards to meeting a w/r.

    My tactics for meeting w/r`s are high variance slots at low stakes to give yourself a better chance of getting a big win, you don`t have to bet big to win big with these slots, when/if I get a big hit I then change to slots that have high paying feature rounds ie:- expanding/stacked wilds in FS`s or crazy multipliers, this system has worked great for me the past year or so when I have hit big playing BDBA and went on to TSII/LotR/Silver Fang/Rhyming Reels/IR etc to grind out the w/r knowing that an average feature return will keep me topped up ;).

    In fact look at the winner screenshots I posted yesterday, a cookie cutter situation for me, hit big on BDBA then obliterated the w/r on Immortal Romance from feature returns, a prime example of when it goes good ;).

    As far as the clearplay system goes, not many MGS casinos corporate this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
  10. Mar 31, 2012
  11. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Generally speaking I agree with you, though the 3Dice one is by no means the worst of the welcome bonuses offered at casinos these days.
    I use a formula based on what you said there to "rate" the welcome bonuses of all the casinos I list on my websites, and then arrange them in "best to worst" order; Using my rating system 3Dice scores 2.43. Most Microgaming ones (100% match, WR Bonus x 30) score 4.20, and only a few casinos are theoretically +EV (scoring over 5.0).
    The worst ones are obviously the Phantom (sticky) bonuses where casinos ask you to do a crazy WR and then (if you somehow make it through that), they take the bonus amount back when you cash out! Quite a few of those produce a negative rating.
    The worst one I saw recently was Club Gold; They impose a WR of Deposit+Bonus x55... AND it's Phantom! that scores -8.92 :eek2:

    Personally I would never take a bonus with WR higher than (D+B)x20 and Cashable, or a high % phantom one just so I can do some "high-rolling" and pray for a mega-win to allow me to meet the WR.

    KK
     
  12. Mar 31, 2012
  13. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    Well I've voted with my wallet and signed up as a new customer at Betway (my first account with that group) - 100% match-up on a £250 deposit has given me a £500 bankroll with a 30x WR on just the bonus amount.

    According to your website KasinoKing (excellent site by the way, even if the design is a bit, erm, 1990s...... :D) - it has a sub rate of 4.20.

    Looks like the best at the moment is Ladbrokes with 4.90, but I've had an account there for years. In fact, I originally signed up there because the welcome offer was a generous one and did quite well out of it too ;)

    I've done the sums and on average luck at Betway I'll take a loss of £125 by the time I've met the WR, but that's a lot of slotting goodness along the way. I know I'm always going to lose on the slots in the long term, I play more for the entertainment value than anything else, which is why I do like bonus offers with WRs that aren't totally off the scale.

    Thanks for the input Kasino (and also the others who've replied to this thread :)), always interesting to hear about how other players approach these things!

    EDIT - I would be thanking both yourself and Seventh for your posts but I need to make 10 posts before I can use the thank feature and it seems bad form to spam crap posts just to get there :)
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Mar 31, 2012
  15. me_and_ed

    me_and_ed Ueber Meister CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Selling out
    Location:
    Vancouver


    I play Betway and Gnuf, the only issue I have with them is the no flush option with 48hr pending period on w/d's, but once the pending is up the w/d's are really fast.
     
  16. Mar 31, 2012
  17. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Nice work KK......another new customer ;) . You'll have to start paying Bryan affiliate commissions! :D


    @ChopleyIOM

    You'll find the best of the best right here at CM. Just follow this link:

    http://www.casinomeister.com/accredited_casinos.php

    The 3dice signup bonus might be a bit stiff, but it's becoming pretty much the rule rather than the exception these days unfortunately. However, quite often when I'm not travelling well, I'll go to chat and ask for a match bonus and I'll get a 50% or 100% match (about $50 max) with NO WAGERING REQUIREMENTS....yep you heard that right....NO WR. I don't know of any other casino, apart from 32Red with their occasional surprise free chip, that provides this service. Even if you take the regular match bonus, the WR is only 10xB which is way better than other casinos.

    Don't be put off by the SUB. 3Dice is a fantastic place to play and they are unique in many ways. My educated guess is that they make the SUB that way to deter the bonus trawlers (not saying you're on at all BTW but some here are....and not saying they're criminals or anything either but they aren't the kind of player the casinos are looking to recruit).

    Best of luck to you :thumbsup:
     
    3 people like this.
  18. Apr 1, 2012
  19. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    Already been using the CM accredited list, which is where I got the Betway link from and clicked through from there.

    Even though I only registered on the forums here a week ago, I've been reading Casinomeister for years :)

    Well TBH Nifty I'd rather they just have no bonus offer at all as opposed to the insult to my intelligence that they currently have.

    I had cash to deposit today and and was ready to spend, but 3Dice not only lost my initial interest as a new customer due to their awful WR, but they made me feel hostile towards them as a 'no bonus' customer too. (Betway got my custom in the end, and they've got £250 of my cash deposited with them due to their reasonable new player offer.)

    I don't expect casinos to give me 'free profits' on a new customer match-up bonus, but at least give me a reasonable chance of getting my deposit back by the time I've met the WR.

    I'm quite happy to play without bonuses (I don't think I've taken a bonus at 32Red for years), but when I'm playing at a new casino and/or a casino that runs games I'm not familiar with, I like to have a bonus to bolster my bankroll to give me time to get acquainted with the slots, without being locked into a near certain bankroll destruction scenario.

    Or to put it another way, I may often start out at a casino as a 'bonus player', but if I get a good first experience there I'll become a loyal non-bonus player and will deposit regularly over the months and years thereafter.

    I'd like to give 3Dice a try, but there's nothing at the moment that's making me want to do so, especially since their new player 'bonus offer' is expressly designed to bust me out.
     
  20. Apr 1, 2012
  21. smcinoz

    smcinoz Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Public Servant
    Location:
    Australia
    I just played through a wage requirement on an MG casino Jackpot City, 100% match with 50x playthrough, highest playthrough ive seen. Thought I would bomb out after a while but pretty consistent hits moving around machines kept the bankroll seesawing from 500 down to 50 back up to 400 and so on. Withdrew 5x my deposit so i was happy.

    Got 3Dice set in my sights for a run next week, good to know what im in for.
     
  22. Apr 1, 2012
  23. Cleveland

    Cleveland Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Professional problem solver
    Location:
    Texas
    I'm guessing its setup like that to discourage bonus hunters / abusers. Since I've played there for a while my wager requirement at 3dice is 5 x the bonus. At least I'm assuming mine is so low because of the time I've spent there, although it might be my good looks. *sigh* keep having to tell Anna and Ellen I'm married :cool::cool:
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Apr 1, 2012
  25. cdomi66

    cdomi66 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    truck driver
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    Instead of taking a bonus to help you become familiar with the slots....why wouldn't you just play in free mode for while?

    What I find with 3Dice is the longer I've played, and higher in VIP level I become, my playthru gets smaller. They do reward loyalty.

    Given the fact they give you tons of free tourneys for 50 bucks a month...I don't fault them for upping the wr's on initial bonus at all.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Apr 1, 2012
  27. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    Because slots in freeplay mode are boring, and because I don't trust them to run the same as they do with real money.

    I believe that Bryan has in the past described slots that run better in Freeplay mode as roguish behaviour. But even the esteemed 32Red on its old mobile casino had a freeplay mode for a slot that always hit the jackpot after a set number of spins, so, y'know......
     
  28. Apr 1, 2012
  29. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    That's just very good luck though :)

    If you crunch the numbers on a 50x WR, even with a really big match-up, statistically, with average luck, it should be a bust out.

    You had a good result and I'm pleased you did, but that's not a WR I would take on!
     
  30. Apr 1, 2012
  31. baldidiot

    baldidiot Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    London
    The best way of giving yourself a decent chance of walking away with something is to up the bet - the bigger the bet the higher the chance of hitting something large enough to let you survive the WR. Of course the flip side of this is that you'll bust out quicker than playing £1 spins.

    Plus, depending on how paranoid the promotions team are, you might not be getting any more bonuses if you do hit a big win and then drop your bet.

    sidenote/ I remember my first ever online casino bonus - it was a $30 bonus on any deposit (so obv I deposited the minimum of $10), played blackjack for a bit and then withdrew. I didn't even know what a WR was or how much I'd played, I was just done playing. :oops: Luckily this was back in the day, so there might not have even been a wr :p
     
  32. Apr 1, 2012
  33. Carly2011

    Carly2011 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Unemployed/student
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    I wasnt going to post to this thread, but after thinking about it, I just had to :)
    3dice is the only online casino I have found in my one year of online gambling that I would ever recommend to anyone. My mother once told me, that only gamble what you can afford to lose. So my advice is do not break into the rent or grocery money, ever.
    Here are the advantages of playing at 3dice:
    ~wonderful, over-top-customer service
    ~The chat box service to talk to other players like yourself
    ~The hourly tournaments for depositing players
    ~ Surprise tournaments by players and the chat hosts
    ~The VIP bonuses
    ~Insanely fast withdrawl system
    Now the only thing I wish this casino had is more slots lol, but the good things totally outweigh the bad and I will not deposit my money anywhere else. They have captured me. :) If the only thing that is stopping you from depositing here is the wagering requirement then thats sad because there are so many other reasons to play here. Hope you reconsider depositing here, if not then good luck to you elsewhere.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Apr 1, 2012
  35. zap987

    zap987 Meister Member PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    Sweden
    Reading yet another of these threads is quite frustrating, it's been explained so many times how the math behind bonuses work yet noone seems even interested in trying to understand. The formula used in this thread is flawed because it ignores the effect of busting out that costs the casino money. Yet the same people stick to and use it for any discussion about bonuses.

    If you have a long run of average luck, how much do you expect to withdraw? Of course you need good luck to withdraw, bonus or no bonus, that's why it is gambling?
     
    3 people like this.
  36. Apr 1, 2012
  37. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    I have to agree that the wagering on the SUB seems on the high side. Take into account that you can play any game (at varying contributions), make any bets allowed by the software and run no risk of having your winnings voided for terms violations or irregular play, and there is no max cashout.

    You also get VIP membership, which allows you access to all the VIP tourneys, which carry a low WR of 10x, and player-sponsored ones frequently that offer no WR. You will also get entry into the New Depositors tourney, which doesn't have rebuys, and offers a reasonable chance of winning a prize.

    I've played at 3Dice for nearly 4 years, and I can't see any difference between tournament mode and real mode play, and I have played hundreds of thousands of spins.

    A small $5 win yesterday in a free tournament (one that was open to even non-depositors) carried a 10x WR. One lucky hit of around $60, and I met that easily. I took my 1st of the month Silver match that had a 5x D+B with some of my winnings and played for hours more. For a brief period of time following a lucky streak, I was Gold, and those do not have any wagering attached to the deposit bonuses. Bronze carries a 15xWR on matches I believe.

    Tournaments are different that freeplay (and I don't mean in how the games play) in that you have a chance to win a prize, not just kill time. There are also other games offered in chat from time to time that are both fun and innovative.

    3Dice is still small and responsive to customers' needs. If you think the WR is too high, and want a slots only bonus, it couldn't hurt to ask if they can accommodate you.

    They may not have the best SUB, but I think their ongoing loyalty for players is excellent.
     
    7 people like this.
  38. Apr 1, 2012
  39. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    Thanks Jasmine that's a very constructive post :)

    A slots-only SUB with a less hellish WR would be a great idea IMO, I'd be interested to see if 3Dice would consider it.

    In the meantime I think I'll download their software and have a little look at the games in freeplay mode, see if it whets my appetite!

    Do we know for sure and/or have confidence that 3Dice's slots play the same in freeplay as they do with real money?
     

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