32Red - problems that need sorting

shanetospin

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
England
The last few weeks of playing at 32Red have been strange to say the least, especially since last Thursday when maintenance had taken place as I've had error messages that interrupt game play regularly and the game play has just never been the same since! I'm a regular player at 32Red and since last Thursday hitting the bonus on IR or TSII is next to impossible. It just seems to be a case of take take take, and the gap between my deposits and withdrawals are getting more and more distanced apart! I do love 32Red but sick of the game issues, the fact I go round the houses and that everytime a software update happens game play is poor for ages afterwards and then I'm expected to do tests to find out why and were they are coming from. Think I'll give this casino a wide birth for a while as not much chance of winning here at the moment. Disappointed, loosing does not bother me, its the error after error and the fact I could deposit 1K and the chances of hitting the bonus is, well, god dam very slim!
 
32Red is reviewed by Casinomeister

Nifty29

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Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Well, if you are losing then it is wise to give them a wide berth.....especially if you can't hit a damn thing.

The maintenance/disconnections have nothing to do with your losses. People are winning whilst you are losing, and vice versa. It's just gambling, particularly with high variance slots like the ones you mentioned.

Perhaps take a break and come back fresh with lower bets and without the feeling of "chasing". You might find your bottom line improves.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
These technical issues afflict ALL Microgaming casinos. 32Red can also be affected by local internet problems between Gibraltar and Spain, which will cause dropouts and disconnections.

The problem with the updates, of which there are too many, is that once triggered, they such so much processor power from the PC that game play and video rendering suffer because too little processor power is left for them. The Viper lobby then seems to update a large number of old games as well as installing the new ones, and the process can last an hour or more.

Microgaming need to address this, and at least give users some tips on how to improve performance, and for the tech savvy users, a change sheet should be issued to detail what upgrades and changes have been implemented during the update.

For example:-

Ver 16.2.2345

1) Addition of Karate Pig
2) Lowering bonus round trigger frequency on Immortal Romance
3) Reduction of RTP on Thunderstruck II
4) Chip change on Hip Hop O Potamus
5) Addition of time delay loop showing flashing monitor to top right to piss off players
6) Pointless reinstallation of 100 random existing games.

:rolleyes:
 

shanetospin

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
England
Well, if you are losing then it is wise to give them a wide berth.....especially if you can't hit a damn thing.

The maintenance/disconnections have nothing to do with your losses. People are winning whilst you are losing, and vice versa. It's just gambling, particularly with high variance slots like the ones you mentioned.

Perhaps take a break and come back fresh with lower bets and without the feeling of "chasing". You might find your bottom line improves.

Never stated that maintenance/disconnections were to do with my losses, I know for a fact it has nothing whatsoever to do with it, and that errors will not change game play- what I'm saying is that it ruins the experience and is frustrating! Also, I already play minimum bets when I do play as I'm not exactly loaded to play big bets as others can. I'm quite sensible when I gamble too, I don't play more than I can afford as others seem to do then moan about it! the post was just to state the problem and my experience and nothing more!
 

shanetospin

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
England
Thanks

These technical issues afflict ALL Microgaming casinos. 32Red can also be affected by local internet problems between Gibraltar and Spain, which will cause dropouts and disconnections.

The problem with the updates, of which there are too many, is that once triggered, they such so much processor power from the PC that game play and video rendering suffer because too little processor power is left for them. The Viper lobby then seems to update a large number of old games as well as installing the new ones, and the process can last an hour or more.

Microgaming need to address this, and at least give users some tips on how to improve performance, and for the tech savvy users, a change sheet should be issued to detail what upgrades and changes have been implemented during the update.

For example:-

Ver 16.2.2345

1) Addition of Karate Pig
2) Lowering bonus round trigger frequency on Immortal Romance
3) Reduction of RTP on Thunderstruck II
4) Chip change on Hip Hop O Potamus
5) Addition of time delay loop showing flashing monitor to top right to piss off players
6) Pointless reinstallation of 100 random existing games.

:rolleyes:

Can I start by saying thanks for something that actually makes sense and is not aimed as having a go. Your post is helpful and makes sense to me and I agree with what you say, I think if there are problems that need sorting as regularly as they happen than maybe a help section should be available by the software providers! As you say this could then have a list of the updates, or even notifications for when updates are going to happen instead of doing it while players are in play etc- least that way we would know not to play at that time, if that makes sense. I know its not 32Reds fault but ultimately its them that I give my money to so its them that should address the issues in my opinion. :)
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
The "Rep Friendly" prefix on this thread seemed inappropriate since there was no attempt made to do reach out or otherwise engage the rep in this topic. I have removed the prefix accordingly.

Also since you "know its not 32Reds fault" but it's really an issue of "problems that need sorting" I will update the thread title to reflect this.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Can I start by saying thanks for something that actually makes sense and is not aimed as having a go. Your post is helpful and makes sense to me and I agree with what you say, I think if there are problems that need sorting as regularly as they happen than maybe a help section should be available by the software providers! As you say this could then have a list of the updates, or even notifications for when updates are going to happen instead of doing it while players are in play etc- least that way we would know not to play at that time, if that makes sense. I know its not 32Reds fault but ultimately its them that I give my money to so its them that should address the issues in my opinion. :)

Unfortunately, they only give advance warning of the new game update.

For smooth gameplay, I tend to launch all my MGS casinos one after the other, and go and do something else whilst they take on this update. This whole annoying process can take 1 to 3 DAYS, but once done, gameplay is much smoother.

It is the unexpected updates after this that can be annoying. These seems no reason for them, no new games, yet they can sometimes take just as long. Unlike the new game update, these only seem to affect some casinos.

I had a major update trigger at GNUF a few days ago, but not at any other MGS (so far). No new games, but some existing games, along with banking, were updated. This didn't break my stride by any means, played after the update finished, and withdrew 10K:p
 

shanetospin

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
England
The "Rep Friendly" prefix on this thread seemed inappropriate since there was no attempt made to do reach out or otherwise engage the rep in this topic. I have removed the prefix accordingly.

Also since you "know its not 32Reds fault" but it's really an issue of "problems that need sorting" I will update the thread title to reflect this.

Thanks Max, I wasn't sure whether or not to put it as I'm still kind of getting used to navigating and getting used to the site, thank-you :)
 

shanetospin

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
England
Unfortunately, they only give advance warning of the new game update.

For smooth gameplay, I tend to launch all my MGS casinos one after the other, and go and do something else whilst they take on this update. This whole annoying process can take 1 to 3 DAYS, but once done, gameplay is much smoother.

It is the unexpected updates after this that can be annoying. These seems no reason for them, no new games, yet they can sometimes take just as long. Unlike the new game update, these only seem to affect some casinos.

I had a major update trigger at GNUF a few days ago, but not at any other MGS (so far). No new games, but some existing games, along with banking, were updated. This didn't break my stride by any means, played after the update finished, and withdrew 10K:p

Check you out with a 10K win! Well done, I could only dream of such a win :'( haha chuffed for you though :)

The reason I get so mad with it is because it never happens with Ladbrokes, or even GoWild when I have played there in the past, it always seems to be 32Red and only 32Red! I remember about 6 months ago I had the same problem, reported it, did everything 32Red requested so took screen shot after screen shot, detailed everything that happened as and when and was told I would be kept updated- I was then contact stopped. then things got better and it did not happen for a while so did not feel the need to contact them again about it, untill last Thursday when I was playing at around 6am and got boot after boot then support said they were having maintenance, they could have at least said before hand as I was doing quite well until the update! Suppose its just one of them things :p


What you spending your winnings on? any ideas? lol ;)
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Unfortunately, they only give advance warning of the new game update.

For smooth gameplay, I tend to launch all my MGS casinos one after the other, and go and do something else whilst they take on this update. This whole annoying process can take 1 to 3 DAYS, but once done, gameplay is much smoother.

It is the unexpected updates after this that can be annoying. These seems no reason for them, no new games, yet they can sometimes take just as long. Unlike the new game update, these only seem to affect some casinos.

I had a major update trigger at GNUF a few days ago, but not at any other MGS (so far). No new games, but some existing games, along with banking, were updated. This didn't break my stride by any means, played after the update finished, and withdrew 10K:p

Oh geez vinyl.....couldn't help yourself could you.... :D

How much did you win again? :rolleyes:
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
The last few weeks of playing at 32Red have been strange to say the least, especially since last Thursday when maintenance had taken place as I've had error messages that interrupt game play regularly and the game play has just never been the same since! I'm a regular player at 32Red and since last Thursday hitting the bonus on IR or TSII is next to impossible. It just seems to be a case of take take take, and the gap between my deposits and withdrawals are getting more and more distanced apart! I do love 32Red but sick of the game issues, the fact I go round the houses and that everytime a software update happens game play is poor for ages afterwards and then I'm expected to do tests to find out why and were they are coming from. Think I'll give this casino a wide birth for a while as not much chance of winning here at the moment. Disappointed, loosing does not bother me, its the error after error and the fact I could deposit 1K and the chances of hitting the bonus is, well, god dam very slim!

I've voted with my wallet on MG casinos (and please note it's MG casinos you're talking about, not specifically 32Red, since MG maintain the backends for all of them, individual MG casinos have no control over anything much beyond bonuses and T&Cs, they're effectively just frontend 'branding').

I just don't feel MG slots roll like they used to, I really don't. And in absence of any kind of changelog or RTP listings for individual games or any indication that any games have been tweaked/adjusted, they lost my trust, and when it comes to players and online casinos, trust is everything.

The one that really did it for me was the 'MEGA KARATE PIG UPDATE' whereby in the process of (allegedly) just adding one new game the Viper client saw fit to apply some sort of update to every single game in the entire casino, taking over one hour per casino install per PC, and chewing up an awful lot of bandwidth in the process.

They've definitely changed existing games in the past, there were the changes made to the Mega Moolah game and also the paytables of a couple of games (there's a thread here at CM about it but I can't find it at the moment)* and I'm sure vinylweatherman has said that the AWP games have had changes made to them as well. Plus there appears to be a players' consensus that both TSII and IR had, ahem, 'adjustments' made to them once they'd been around for a while.

I'm not pissing and moaning, I'm not crying 'cheats!', I'm just going off my feelings towards MG casinos at the moment and as such have decided to take my business elsewhere until such time as they decide to be a bit more open and upfront with their players.

One thing I have noticed about 32Red is that they seem to be a lot more 'bonus focused' recently, back when I started playing over 4 years ago 32Red were pretty stingy on their bonuses, but it didn't matter as MG slots in general were high-paying and thus bonuses were an irrelevance. Up until I stopped playing at MG casinos a few weeks ago, it seemed there were bonus offers going on all the time not just at the 'usual suspects' but even 32Red as well - makes you wonder if they're compensating for something.....

* Hang on here it is - https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/thinking-somethings-changed-at-microgaming.26802/
 

PNEFOREVER2

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Location
Preston,lancs
Pretty sure several people here have noticed IR change.When it first came out I was getting some really nice hits,nowadays I'm ALWAYS 1 reel off hitting 5 Sarah (woman in the red symbol) with 1 or 2 wild symbols-same with the guy in the light blue top.Yet the 4 Amber/K/A/J symbols with a wild symbol appear all the time.

The bonus rounds now almost always pay nothing,the last bonus feature of the four (wild vine feature),as I have stated before never go's left when you need it to.And when it does you always have no win lined up.

Hadn't played TS2 for a while until the other week as I had been having some sound issues on the game-all of a sudden it seemed fine tech wise-played with around £35 for a few hours or so-hit nothing-no bonus round-nada.I know this isn't out of the norm but hitting anything even remotely half decent seems predictably unlikely spin after spin.

Will probably be trying 1 or 2 RTG/Playtech casinos to see if I can turn my cacky luck around :(
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I've voted with my wallet on MG casinos (and please note it's MG casinos you're talking about, not specifically 32Red, since MG maintain the backends for all of them, individual MG casinos have no control over anything much beyond bonuses and T&Cs, they're effectively just frontend 'branding').

I just don't feel MG slots roll like they used to, I really don't. And in absence of any kind of changelog or RTP listings for individual games or any indication that any games have been tweaked/adjusted, they lost my trust, and when it comes to players and online casinos, trust is everything.

The one that really did it for me was the 'MEGA KARATE PIG UPDATE' whereby in the process of (allegedly) just adding one new game the Viper client saw fit to apply some sort of update to every single game in the entire casino, taking over one hour per casino install per PC, and chewing up an awful lot of bandwidth in the process.

They've definitely changed existing games in the past, there were the changes made to the Mega Moolah game and also the paytables of a couple of games (there's a thread here at CM about it but I can't find it at the moment)* and I'm sure vinylweatherman has said that the AWP games have had changes made to them as well. Plus there appears to be a players' consensus that both TSII and IR had, ahem, 'adjustments' made to them once they'd been around for a while.

I'm not pissing and moaning, I'm not crying 'cheats!', I'm just going off my feelings towards MG casinos at the moment and as such have decided to take my business elsewhere until such time as they decide to be a bit more open and upfront with their players.

One thing I have noticed about 32Red is that they seem to be a lot more 'bonus focused' recently, back when I started playing over 4 years ago 32Red were pretty stingy on their bonuses, but it didn't matter as MG slots in general were high-paying and thus bonuses were an irrelevance. Up until I stopped playing at MG casinos a few weeks ago, it seemed there were bonus offers going on all the time not just at the 'usual suspects' but even 32Red as well - makes you wonder if they're compensating for something.....

* Hang on here it is - https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/thinking-somethings-changed-at-microgaming.26802/

Wow chopley. I think you've been listening to your cylonic friend too much....

I've had the best run ever on IR the past month....and mostly at 32Red. How do you figure that?

The whole "New games pay more" is all about perception. We tend to forget about our losses far easier than our wins. My initial experience with IR wasn't great, and neither was it good for many other members. Some players seem to think they should be ahead of the game all the time or its all "rigged".

It's gambling. If you don't expect to lose, you shouldn't gamble, as you're in for a world of hurt.

You're suggesting the games have been "tampered with" in some way, in concert with a change in bonus offers. Well, that's pretty much "cheating", or at the least dishonest, do don't say you're not suggesting something dodgy when you quite obviously are.

Vinyl doesn't know for sure if the AWPs were chipped or whatever. It's just his feeling....he has no data or evidence at all, and neither does anyone else about MGS in general. He bases his feelings on not seeing a certain progression of reel wins and jackpots....when, in fact, it may be programmed that way so that it doesn't repeat certain situations. Who kniws? Nobody here that's for sure.

It's the same old "they've screwed down the games" fluff which is, as usual, accompanied by no evidence other than "I'm not winning". We've heard it all before. If the casinos did screw down the games by 1% every time some sore non-winner proclaimed it here over the years, there would be no casinos and no players as the RTP would be 0%.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Wow chopley. I think you've been listening to your cylonic friend too much....

I've had the best run ever on IR the past month....and mostly at 32Red. How do you figure that?

The whole "New games pay more" is all about perception. We tend to forget about our losses far easier than our wins. My initial experience with IR wasn't great, and neither was it good for many other members. Some players seem to think they should be ahead of the game all the time or its all "rigged".

It's gambling. If you don't expect to lose, you shouldn't gamble, as you're in for a world of hurt.

You're suggesting the games have been "tampered with" in some way, in concert with a change in bonus offers. Well, that's pretty much "cheating", or at the least dishonest, do don't say you're not suggesting something dodgy when you quite obviously are.

Vinyl doesn't know for sure if the AWPs were chipped or whatever. It's just his feeling....he has no data or evidence at all, and neither does anyone else about MGS in general. He bases his feelings on not seeing a certain progression of reel wins and jackpots....when, in fact, it may be programmed that way so that it doesn't repeat certain situations. Who kniws? Nobody here that's for sure.

It's the same old "they've screwed down the games" fluff which is, as usual, accompanied by no evidence other than "I'm not winning". We've heard it all before. If the casinos did screw down the games by 1% every time some sore non-winner proclaimed it here over the years, there would be no casinos and no players as the RTP would be 0%.

I'm still caning their ass on the AWP games, just with different patterns.

They issue boils down to WHY so many updates to existing games, and WHY the unwillingness to explain what actual changes are being applied.

The fact that large amounts of bandwith as well as time is involved is proof that actual downloading and applying of "cab" files is taking place, rather than a long winded but local process.

Without digging deep, it is hard to tell what is really going on, or why.
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
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Location
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I'm still caning their ass on the AWP games, just with different patterns.

Random slots shouldn't be beatable by noticing and reacting to 'patterns' - so that's bad enough in and of itself.

IIRC MG don't make and differentiation between their AWP style games and the rest of their slots, all of them are, allegedly, completely random.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
I have to agree with you totally Nifty. I saw your win on IR the other day:thumbsup:
Isn't it strange that you can win when everyone else seems to lose?:rolleyes:

It's the same for me. I couldn't hit anything on that game in the beginning, but I do now. The same goes for TSll, except that I have been winning on that game all the time, and still do.
BDBA have been cold for me the last month, but I got compensated on that one the other day:D

It comes and it goes, and I don't think anything has change the last few years when I have been playing. Possibly my own way of playing has. I play lower bets but more aggresive. Maybe you have change how you are playing too?

I do have one technical issue with 32Red. Today it wasn't so bad but yesterday I was really irritated.
When I have played a game for a while and wants to close it...I can't. It doesn't answer, and I have to use the taskbar and close the whole casino down.
Anyone has any idea what it can be? I don't blame the casino since it's probably my computer going nuts again, but I have no clue at all how to fix it.:confused:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I have to agree with you totally Nifty. I saw your win on IR the other day:thumbsup:
Isn't it strange that you can win when everyone else seems to lose?:rolleyes:

It's the same for me. I couldn't hit anything on that game in the beginning, but I do now. The same goes for TSll, except that I have been winning on that game all the time, and still do.
BDBA have been cold for me the last month, but I got compensated on that one the other day:D

It comes and it goes, and I don't think anything has change the last few years when I have been playing. Possibly my own way of playing has. I play lower bets but more aggresive. Maybe you have change how you are playing too?

I do have one technical issue with 32Red. Today it wasn't so bad but yesterday I was really irritated.
When I have played a game for a while and wants to close it...I can't. It doesn't answer, and I have to use the taskbar and close the whole casino down.
Anyone has any idea what it can be? I don't blame the casino since it's probably my computer going nuts again, but I have no clue at all how to fix it.:confused:

I get this a great deal with GNUF, even on a fresh install on a different PC. There is some kind of glitch that randomly causes "casinogame" task to hang when a game is being closed. Sometimes, the game WILL close, but "casinogame" does not close, but "hangs" after releasing the majority of it's RAM. This then causes a crash if a different MGS casino is opened. The problem is that visually the whole casino appears closed, it is the stub process "casinogame" that hangs, and can only be seen in task manager.

Witches Wealth seems to hang EVERY time it is closed at GNUF, suggesting particular games are more affected than others.

No error messages are generated, and the crash is random, so cannot be set up under "laboratory" conditions for a more thorough investigation.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
Random slots shouldn't be beatable by noticing and reacting to 'patterns' - so that's bad enough in and of itself.IIRC MG don't make and differentiation between their AWP style games and the rest of their slots, all of them are, allegedly, completely random.

Yes, but AWP are not 'normal' slots, despite what MG may or may not say about them ... and why I have always stayed away from them.
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
Wow chopley. I think you've been listening to your cylonic friend too much....

I've had the best run ever on IR the past month....and mostly at 32Red. How do you figure that?

The whole "New games pay more" is all about perception. We tend to forget about our losses far easier than our wins. My initial experience with IR wasn't great, and neither was it good for many other members. Some players seem to think they should be ahead of the game all the time or its all "rigged".

It's gambling. If you don't expect to lose, you shouldn't gamble, as you're in for a world of hurt.

You're suggesting the games have been "tampered with" in some way, in concert with a change in bonus offers. Well, that's pretty much "cheating", or at the least dishonest, do don't say you're not suggesting something dodgy when you quite obviously are.

Vinyl doesn't know for sure if the AWPs were chipped or whatever. It's just his feeling....he has no data or evidence at all, and neither does anyone else about MGS in general. He bases his feelings on not seeing a certain progression of reel wins and jackpots....when, in fact, it may be programmed that way so that it doesn't repeat certain situations. Who kniws? Nobody here that's for sure.

It's the same old "they've screwed down the games" fluff which is, as usual, accompanied by no evidence other than "I'm not winning". We've heard it all before. If the casinos did screw down the games by 1% every time some sore non-winner proclaimed it here over the years, there would be no casinos and no players as the RTP would be 0%.

Methinks the nifty doth protest too much!

You countering with 'I've just had an acebest month at 32Red ZOMG!' is no more evidence of anything then those who say they're changing the games and/or the RTP.

However, in this case I do actually have evidence that MG have definitely changed existing games in the past, the Mega Moolah example I linked above being absolutely irrefutable.

Also, 32Red are more bonus-focused than they used to be, that is a fact. Maybe that's simply because the rest of the industry is so massively bonus-focused these days, maybe it's something else, who knows?

Finally, please don't twist my post to say something that it clearly didn't. I said that my 'feeling' was that MG slots don't roll like they used to, I did not accuse them of tampering with the games. I did however state the fact that when Karate Pig was released every single MG casino installed across all my PCs decided to apply a mega-update to EVERYTHING, to the extent that even launching an ancient game such as Rainbows End resulted in a short 'downloading' process.

I don't understand why you're always so quick to jump on the heads of people who want to chat about casino experiences at a, y'know, set of casino forums. Considering that CM is supposed to be the top place on the net for players to talk about their experiences, you're awfully quick to get aggressive with players who want to talk about their experiences when they don't match up with your perspective on things.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Methinks the nifty doth protest too much!

You countering with 'I've just had an acebest month at 32Red ZOMG!' is no more evidence of anything then those who say they're changing the games and/or the RTP.

Thanks for helping make my point Chopley.

You see, I didn't state anything about things being "altered" or "worse", or any other general comments about the payout rates. I just stated that my experience was different to yours, so your statement about payouts being worse across the board are obviously erroneous. I wasn't presenting my good run as "evidence" of anything other than your experience is not the same as others.


I don't understand why you're always so quick to jump on the heads of people who want to chat about casino experiences at a, y'know, set of casino forums. Considering that CM is supposed to be the top place on the net for players to talk about their experiences, you're awfully quick to get aggressive with players who want to talk about their experiences when they don't match up with your perspective on things.

It's called presenting another side of the argument, based on my experience. If it is OK for you to do that, why is it not OK for me? You, and some others, don't like what I say a lot of the time because I don't buy into conspriracy theories and don't proclaim that the casinos are up to something purely based on the fact I am not winning.

Find me some threads where someone said "Geez I am having a horrible run. My luck is definitely out!" and I "jumped on their head". Happy hunting! You will, however, find plenty where someone has said "The casinos have reduced their RTPs because I can't hit a damn thing and the games just aren't the same". Unless someone keeps a full spreadsheet of every single bet over several years with every detail included, nobody will have any credibility when they cry "rigged" etc. You see, if a casino tells me their games are 95% RTP permanently and cannot be changed, as MGS does, and they DO somehow change the RTP to 90%, then they ARE rigging the games i.e. they are cheating by deliberately misinforming me. Show me the spreadsheet/proof/communique/emails/etc and I'll be the first to start a public campaign to take them down. I'm still waiting.

You may see my response as "aggressive", but it is in fact logical and sound. If all you were saying is that your "experience is that I am losing more than before", then I don't have an issue and at various times in my own "career" I would agree with you. It is the next step that I take issue with, as nearly all of the members who have "gone troppo" (as I call it) have either been banned or laughed out of the place because they actually become convinced that their losses are not their fault, but rather an industry-wide conspiracy to rip them off at every turn. It is their perogative to do so of course, but I feel it is my duty as a senior member to state the realities of gambling and ask reasonable, logical questions and challenge their POV's, so that any newbw reading can reach and informed view of what the facts really are. Plus, it's kinda fun to see them go off their heads when they cannot have a civilised debate and make fools of themselves. FTR, I don't place you in that category chopley, and I hope I never do, as thus far you have conducted your debates like an adult, and kudos to you for that. I can't help thinking though, that you seem to think you have a very good "handle" on me for someone that has only been posting for a month or so.......
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Thanks for helping make my point Chopley.

You see, I didn't state anything about things being "altered" or "worse", or any other general comments about the payout rates. I just stated that my experience was different to yours, so your statement about payouts being worse across the board are obviously erroneous. I wasn't presenting my good run as "evidence" of anything other than your experience is not the same as others.




It's called presenting another side of the argument, based on my experience. If it is OK for you to do that, why is it not OK for me? You, and some others, don't like what I say a lot of the time because I don't buy into conspriracy theories and don't proclaim that the casinos are up to something purely based on the fact I am not winning.

Find me some threads where someone said "Geez I am having a horrible run. My luck is definitely out!" and I "jumped on their head". Happy hunting! You will, however, find plenty where someone has said "The casinos have reduced their RTPs because I can't hit a damn thing and the games just aren't the same". Unless someone keeps a full spreadsheet of every single bet over several years with every detail included, nobody will have any credibility when they cry "rigged" etc. You see, if a casino tells me their games are 95% RTP permanently and cannot be changed, as MGS does, and they DO somehow change the RTP to 90%, then they ARE rigging the games i.e. they are cheating by deliberately misinforming me. Show me the spreadsheet/proof/communique/emails/etc and I'll be the first to start a public campaign to take them down. I'm still waiting.

You may see my response as "aggressive", but it is in fact logical and sound. If all you were saying is that your "experience is that I am losing more than before", then I don't have an issue and at various times in my own "career" I would agree with you. It is the next step that I take issue with, as nearly all of the members who have "gone troppo" (as I call it) have either been banned or laughed out of the place because they actually become convinced that their losses are not their fault, but rather an industry-wide conspiracy to rip them off at every turn. It is their perogative to do so of course, but I feel it is my duty as a senior member to state the realities of gambling and ask reasonable, logical questions and challenge their POV's, so that any newbw reading can reach and informed view of what the facts really are. Plus, it's kinda fun to see them go off their heads when they cannot have a civilised debate and make fools of themselves. FTR, I don't place you in that category chopley, and I hope I never do, as thus far you have conducted your debates like an adult, and kudos to you for that. I can't help thinking though, that you seem to think you have a very good "handle" on me for someone that has only been posting for a month or so.......


Kasino King?;)
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
IIRC MG don't make and differentiation between their AWP style games and the rest of their slots, all of them are, allegedly, completely random.
Please show me where Microgaming state that AWPs are completely random?
(They are definitely NOT - so MG better not be saying that they are anywhere)

Kasino King?;)
I have got loads of detailed logs of MG slots play from 2005 to 2010 (only a few since then due to kids!).
I have not analysed the RTPs - nor do I have any interest in doing so because I am happy that my results were fair.
If anyone else wants to take them away and study the figures I will provide my spreadsheet to them.

KK
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Please show me where Microgaming state that AWPs are completely random?
(They are definitely NOT - so MG better not be saying that they are anywhere)


I have got loads of detailed logs of MG slots play from 2005 to 2010 (only a few since then due to kids!).
I have not analysed the RTPs - nor do I have any interest in doing so because I am happy that my results were fair.
If anyone else wants to take them away and study the figures I will provide my spreadsheet to them.

KK

No excuse for such lack of discipline, teach the kids to keep meticulous records of their play just as daddy does - or bed with no bonus that night:p
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
Thanks for helping make my point Chopley.

You see, I didn't state anything about things being "altered" or "worse", or any other general comments about the payout rates. I just stated that my experience was different to yours, so your statement about payouts being worse across the board are obviously erroneous. I wasn't presenting my good run as "evidence" of anything other than your experience is not the same as others.

It's called presenting another side of the argument, based on my experience. If it is OK for you to do that, why is it not OK for me? You, and some others, don't like what I say a lot of the time because I don't buy into conspriracy theories and don't proclaim that the casinos are up to something purely based on the fact I am not winning.

Find me some threads where someone said "Geez I am having a horrible run. My luck is definitely out!" and I "jumped on their head". Happy hunting! You will, however, find plenty where someone has said "The casinos have reduced their RTPs because I can't hit a damn thing and the games just aren't the same". Unless someone keeps a full spreadsheet of every single bet over several years with every detail included, nobody will have any credibility when they cry "rigged" etc. You see, if a casino tells me their games are 95% RTP permanently and cannot be changed, as MGS does, and they DO somehow change the RTP to 90%, then they ARE rigging the games i.e. they are cheating by deliberately misinforming me. Show me the spreadsheet/proof/communique/emails/etc and I'll be the first to start a public campaign to take them down. I'm still waiting.

You may see my response as "aggressive", but it is in fact logical and sound. If all you were saying is that your "experience is that I am losing more than before", then I don't have an issue and at various times in my own "career" I would agree with you. It is the next step that I take issue with, as nearly all of the members who have "gone troppo" (as I call it) have either been banned or laughed out of the place because they actually become convinced that their losses are not their fault, but rather an industry-wide conspiracy to rip them off at every turn. It is their perogative to do so of course, but I feel it is my duty as a senior member to state the realities of gambling and ask reasonable, logical questions and challenge their POV's, so that any newbw reading can reach and informed view of what the facts really are. Plus, it's kinda fun to see them go off their heads when they cannot have a civilised debate and make fools of themselves. FTR, I don't place you in that category chopley, and I hope I never do, as thus far you have conducted your debates like an adult, and kudos to you for that. I can't help thinking though, that you seem to think you have a very good "handle" on me for someone that has only been posting for a month or so.......

Fair enough I understand the point you're making nifty, but I have made a genuine effort to steer clear of any kind of 'gone troppo' posts or declarations along the lines of 'This has been fiddled' or 'This is cheating' or 'They've changed things', instead I have been careful to talk about how I feel about my experiences and what conclusions I've drawn from them, subjective opinion if you will, not declarations of fact.

(With the exception of noting where things definitely have changed, such as the Mega Moolah example.)

I appreciate I am a new poster here at the CM forums but I have been reading both the main site and the forums for years, it's only recently that I've decided to take part. (And since I have become an active poster here I've read back through an awful lot of CM forums history.)

I do feel there's a difference between someone crying 'rigged!' (which I've not done) and someone saying that they feel the nature of play across a software range has changed (as I have with regards to MG slots) and are thus making the personal decision to take a break from playing those games. One does not need to present hard facts or data when it comes to expressing an opinion or a feeling, as long as they are not attempting to present that opinion as empirical fact, which I am not and have not.

Anecdotes are not data, of course, but to reach the personal conclusion that I did with regards to MG, I was referring to many hundreds of thousands of spins across many games, games which in most cases I had played extensively over the last few years. Following on from that, I had a look through the history here at CM and found I most certainly wasn't alone in getting this 'feeling', and whilst a great many of the posts were indeed of the 'gone troppo' variety or were made by people who flat out didn't understand the fundamentals of random numbers and variance and the weird things between them that they're capable of - after having sifted those out there was enough left for me to reach a personal conclusion that I was no longer happy to play at MG casinos, as indeed others had done.

(It was during this CM forums hunt that I discovered the definite change made to Mega Moolah, and another poster had noticed that the paytable had changed on Franken Cash and Boogie Monsters after an update, for example. I won't present my own list here but I am personally convinced that some slots at MG casinos have been tweaked/adjusted in various ways, not necessarily RTP in all cases but also 'streaky' behaviour.)

None of this means that MG slots can't still pay out at 95% overall, but since MG are a completely closed shop and refuse to release individual RTPs for their slots, (or indeed for categories of slots, it's just '95% for everything', they don't even make any attempt to explain how the progressives work and what the impact is on the RTP of the base games), don't list variances, don't have a changelog, don't give any indication when or if a game has been changed (even when it definitely has been such as with the Mega Moolah behaviour), have 'AWP' style slots on their books which vinylweatherman claims to be able to beat despite them just being another collection of random slots according to MG, release regular huge updates to their software which are changing 'something' but no one really knows what.... I ultimately reserve the right to say 'I'm not happy about this'.

At the end of the day I'm taking the advice that yourself and max have regularly dispensed over the years, if a player is not happy about how a casino is playing for him, he should stop playing there.

That said however, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to share my thoughts and experiences with other CM members, and they are of course free to agree/disagree/ridicule as they see fit :)
 
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