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Casino Complaint 32RED not self excluding when requested

Discussion in 'Other Complaints' started by rachio84, Dec 11, 2017.

    Dec 11, 2017
  1. rachio84

    rachio84 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    admin
    Location:
    UK
    I have had gambling issues for some time and have self excluded from many many sites using automated processes. This will self exclude me from their other sister sites which is a god-send for me as I, and I’m sure many other problem gamblers, seek out new sites when having a relapse.

    In March 2017 I requested Self-exclusion from 32Red and their process is a nightmare. I only use my mobile for internet access and therefore don’t have a printer.

    I hoped the process would be automated but it wasn’t so I sent the email. I had a number of clicks to make online and there’s no way it can be done accidentally. When I finally got to the “if you agree click here” I clicked and instead of self-exclusion I got a form emailed to me to fill in! I don’t have a printer to send back and so emailed back again stating specifically that I wanted to self exclude and I don’t have a printer to complete their form. After a number of emails I still couldn’t figure out how to get it sorted.

    I have since relapsed and opened two other accounts on the same network and have tried to self exclude these since and have had the sameness issue - ie more forms to fill out with no printer.

    I am now making a formal complaint with them in regards to this and will be taking it to the UKGC should it not be resolved. I have not posted all details here due to this.

    Has anyone else had similar experiences?
     
  2. Dec 11, 2017
  3. mimi26

    mimi26 Meister Member

    Occupation:
    nurse
    Location:
    uk
    I am on take a break there at the minute and TBH I had problems finding that I went on live chat in the end.

    Their website is awful and they need to pull their socks up over this, exclusion should be an easy process.
     
  4. Dec 11, 2017
  5. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes, unfortunately 32Red seem to have found a loophole in the UKGC wording that clearly insinuates (but doesn't categorically specify) that SE should be automated and self-set, like it is with 95% of online casinos. When a player is on tilt and needs that instant prevention, 32red delay it with forms and e-mails necessary, it's an old issue and there is a big thread here about it if you search - clearly the old situation is still occurring.

    I quit their sites over this matter at the time (not because I wanted to SE but because I thought it was sly and unsatisfactory and a hindrance to RG).

    I am dismayed that the UKGC still hasn't closed this loophole and the situation still persists. Their system is unhelpful and obstructive. :mad:
     
    Nate likes this.
  6. Dec 11, 2017
  7. Mark_32Red

    Mark_32Red Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos

    Occupation:
    Head of Marketing
    Location:
    32Red Marketing Dpt
    @Rachio,

    I hope you are well.

    Sorry to hear about your problem. If you're already at the formal complaint stage it may have gone past my involvement, but in such circumstances we do try to offer alternatives; if that was not the case here please do let me know?

    Regards
    Mark
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  8. Dec 12, 2017
  9. rachio84

    rachio84 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    admin
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the replies.

    32Red have now stated that they have given their final response.

    I have contacted the Gambling Commission and am awaiting their reply and will be considering legal action.

    The situation is that I requested self-exclusion via email and explained I had Gambling addiction issues. I got the form back to fill out and replied that I did not have a printer and again asked to be self excluded. This is twice that I have asked. I was sent a reply (which I’m now told explained how to fill out the form without a printer) but still did not understand how to work it out and so changed all my deposit limits to the minimum I could to prevent me depositing. I’m a compulsive gambler and won’t up the deposit limits and wait so this worked for a while.

    Unfortunately this does not offer the protection of self-exclusion and I have been able to subsequently open accounts with both Dash and RoxyPalace and deposit a total of £2,500.

    I have since asked to self-exclude these as well and hit the same block and have made a complaint and requested self exclusion again and the subsequent deposits refunded due to breaching self-exclusion licensing - I.e I should have been self excluded, I made the company aware of my gambling issues and they did nothing to provide safeguarding.

    I have read the licensing rules regarding the allowance of an “additional step to prevent unintended self-exclusion” on an automated system.

    I have issues with this as the self exclusion system is clearly not automated if it involved emails and printing and editing a form. Even if they argued it was then the step purely allowed to prevent unintended self exclusion - my second email has confirmed my request for self exclusion and has therefore showed that my request was intentional (although my request was an email anyway and so there could be no confusion and does comply with the first line of the particular regulation ref contacting customer services).

    I have quite clearly made it clear that I want self exclusion, have gambling issues and am unable to print due to the lack of a printer and yet 32Red have made the matter unneccasarily difficult, if not obstructed, my attempt to self exclude and have clearly been irresponsible in their practices.

    Thankfully, now I have complained they have self excluded the accounts after replying in a clearer manner that I can reply and edit the form once they sent it in an email etc format. This is after they have had a further £2,500 from me and I am also concerned that others will fall foul of this issue and it should be rectified. Indeed from the other threads on here alone it would appear others already have fallen victim of this procedure and many agree that they have misinterpreted the UKGC regulations and applied them to suit themselves.

    Luckily I have a close relative who works as an advisor to matters such as this and I will be taking their advice here on in and filling through with legal advice if necessary.

    I’m not sure if there is anything you can do for me, Mark, but certainly this needs to be addressed.
     
  10. Dec 12, 2017
  11. rachio84

    rachio84 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    admin
    Location:
    UK
    Furthermore, the customer advisor had admitted in email that I made a request for self exclusion as per the first few lines of an email I had returned to me;

    “Hi ******,

    Sorry I could not get back to you sooner.

    Initial request for self-exclusion was made on the 21/03/2017.”

    The email goes on to say how I replied with concerns that I could not complete the form and was emailed back by someone explaining how I can fill the form in using any device.

    I still could not figure out how to do this hence why I went down the deposit limit route. This worked for some months until I found the other sites and compulsively joined and deposited. No protection or responsible action by the company at all.

    This is why i requested to be self excluded as I have with pretty much all other operators and have successfully be excluded from most online sites and so can’t compulsively join and deposit.
     
  12. Dec 19, 2017
  13. rachio84

    rachio84 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    admin
    Location:
    UK
    I have now submitted a formal complaint with the UKGC.

    I also wish to pursue this matter legally - I have checked with the small claims online but have only been given an address outside of the UK for the company

    Has anyone ever been through the small claims court with a non-uk based casino that can offer advice?

    I will be pursuing the matter as I am 100% confident that I am in the right here and feel that the £2,500 deposited should be returned to me.

    Any advice on where to find a UK address or the procedure for non-uk addresses?
    Also I have to show I’ve tried to negotiate outside of the courts - I have tried via emails and as the matter is a regulation one the ADR process is not relevant. Are there any further negotiating options to consider before I place a claim?

    TIA
     
  14. Dec 19, 2017
  15. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    If you had won would you have taken the money, or still just asked for those 2 500?

    There are still thousands of casinos out there to be joined. Still you chose these two casinos even though you were well aware that you shouldn't be able to play there?
    That is what speaks against you really. You knew.

    I agree though that this filling a form is a bit too much, but I'm also sure that they have everything covered with the regulators already so my guess is that you're wasting your time.

    I do hope you manage to stop gambling now though. See this as a lesson.
     
    Borgie likes this.
  16. Dec 20, 2017
  17. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    I did exactly the same, they will never get another penny from me.

    Heres a mad idea, when a customer tells you they have a gambling problem, instead of not blocking their account and fleecing them for more money, block it instantly, like pretty much every other casino does, you know, because they aren't trying to get money from people with gambling addictions.
     
    rachio84 likes this.
  18. Dec 20, 2017
  19. rachio84

    rachio84 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    admin
    Location:
    UK
    Whilst I appreciate your opinion, I don’t win. As a compulsive gambler unless the withdrawal is quick - I.e - done before the compulsion kicks in again, I never withdraw.

    Actually got up to over £2,400 on one of the casinos and did request withdrawal but as it took over 24hrs I cancelled it to play again. That’s how it is with people who have problems with gambling and why it is imperative that casinos play their part in being responsible. Due to the length of time 32Red take to withdraw I would have never won there.

    I specifically asked for self exclusion and this was ignored. The form they request to be filled out, they claim, is to prevent inadvertent self-exclusion - this is the only way they could claim it’s allowed as per the regulations. There is nothing on the form that is more than what my follow up email had on it. I wanted to self exclude as I had a problem, 32Red knew this yet chose not to action my request.
     
    colinsunderland likes this.
  20. Dec 20, 2017
  21. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    Its sad really that these guys are predatory when it comes to real issues.

    Irrespective of what anyone says or thinks about any individual... an email stating you have a gambling problem should be enough to SHUT the account until such time the forms are received. Taking advantage of the situation by insisting you fill out a form is predatory and unethical.

    Nate
     
    Rach23 and mimi26 like this.
  22. Dec 20, 2017
  23. ReggieMac

    ReggieMac Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Senior Software Developer
    Location:
    UK
     

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