32red - losing streak?

Your problem IMO is expectation.

$30 isn't going to last ANYONE very long, and if you low roll, your chances of winning something cashable, say $150, are very slim. Even a rare 200xbet is only a $60 win at 30c.

You'll never win anything decent with such small deposits and bets....and the restrictions of a bonus.

I think you may have missed the second part of my post.

When I first started playing I was getting regular 5-8 hours of play from these sort of deposits,of course I didn't expect this to be the case everytime I deposited.In the last 2-3 months I think I can recall one 7 hour session,didn't w/d but wasn't too bothered as I felt it had been worth it seeing as it had saved me from having to view David Dickinson's real deal.

Some of us don't have hundreds of pounds to throw at it everyday.

Over the course of the best part of 18 months you'd expect 1 half decent day somewhere down the line.Even my brother makes the same sort of deposits,and stakes I make-go look at his winner screenshots.

I take the bonus simply because I know I'm more than likely going to need it to extend the short amount of playtime I usually get.
 
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Hello to all of you first!:)

TBH, I didn't have any intentions to take part in this discussion, since all I got in my hand is nothing but a bare own experience (just a few millions spins and only a couple of tens of thousand in deposits:D). But...
Some of the guys here, with all my respect, are speaking just too categorical, even afford themselves to accuse other members in all kind of "gambling sins", like building a "conspiracy theories", or being a sore losers and so on! 11 pages of posts and complicated expressions, like RTP, TRTP,etc. and all I managed to see is only a bare players experience!!!
Have any of us ever seen even a single line of the MG source code?!
Have any of us ever seen even a single number of "inside" MG RTP percentage information?!
Have any of us ever seen even a single official explanation from the MG managing body, how is this RTP percentage actually calculated?!
In fact, do we actually know how the MG is treating and calculating personal RTP to players with more than one account across the casinos powered by this software?! Is is based and limited within only one casino or it is based on all of our accounts?!

All this is just the top of the iceberg! For me! And I'll be the happiest guy if someone of you have answers to the above! Until than, every single word in this thread (including my own) is a pure speculation and a fairy tale!:D

And please don't shoot me! I'm just one of you - an ordinary gambler, looking for his place under the sun!:D
 
You will never get the true odds of hitting 3 scatters, it`s a no-brainer. The odds are worked out, as per numbers of scatters per reel, and number of slot spaces available (most cases 15), like you stated these odds on Cashapillar are 169/1, but, here`s the kicker, you have hit 2 scatters on reels 1 and 2, you now have 3 reels left to hit one scatter, do the maths, for arguments sake the odds of hitting the 1st two on reels 1 and 2 are 5x5 = 25/1, there isn`t a bookmaker in the world that would give you the odds of the remaining equation 169 - 25 = 144/1 to hit one scatter from any of the last 3 reels, catch my drift ?;)
Errrr... no I don't get your drift - I am completely lost by your post actually! :oops:

The chances of getting 3 or more scatters in view on Cashapillar IS once in every 169.09 spins. It doesn't matter which reels they land on - those are still the odds.
FYI there is only 1 scatter on reels 1, 2 & 3 - but 3 on reel 4 and 2 on reel 5.
The chance of getting a scatter on each reel is as follows (from reel 1 to 5):
1 in 15.80
1 in 15.60
1 in 14.80
1 in 6.27
1 in 9.40

I know this because I spent several hours every day for more than a week plotting the reel layouts from multiple screenshots so that I could put the data on my site:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(These reel-strips were later verified by another CM member who found a way to "grab" them from the casinos streaming of the flash game)

So the odds of getting scatters on reels 1 & 2 is 15.8 x 15.6 = 246.48/1 against - not the 25/1 you said.

Note: The above figures are based on the slot being a 100% true random game - which I personally believe to be the case.

KK
 
Had to try again to see if things got any better but..


Scott: Hi , how can I help?
Me: Hello Scott could you provide me my RTP yesterday and today?
Me: ************ is my account
Scott: I will have a look for you now.
Scott: One moment please
Scott: I will do that for you now Michael.
Me: thanks Scott
Scott: Today's was 36% and yesterdays was 55%
Me: thanks Scott, enjoy your day!, bye for now :)
Scott: You're welcome and take care

my cursed account in the nuttshell ..
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 
Had to try again to see if things got any better but..


Scott: Hi , how can I help?
Me: Hello Scott could you provide me my RTP yesterday and today?
Me: ************ is my account
Scott: I will have a look for you now.
Scott: One moment please
Scott: I will do that for you now Michael.
Me: thanks Scott
Scott: Today's was 36% and yesterdays was 55%
Me: thanks Scott, enjoy your day!, bye for now :)
Scott: You're welcome and take care

my cursed account in the nuttshell ..
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

How many spins, on what slots, and what was your bankroll relative to your stake?

I'm no big fan of MG (as folks may have noticed :D) but you really need some pretty big numbers before an RTP figure starts to mean anything.

(And as I've already said, I don't think there's anything amiss with MG's RTPs in and of themselves, I think it's how the slots get there and the control mechanisms.)
 
How many spins, on what slots, and what was your bankroll relative to your stake?

I'm no big fan of MG (as folks may have noticed :D) but you really need some pretty big numbers before an RTP figure starts to mean anything.

(And as I've already said, I don't think there's anything amiss with MG's RTPs in and of themselves, I think it's how the slots get there and the control mechanisms.)

Hello Chopley these are not much start 40$X2, 0.36Cent bet, but my problem is that this is happening every time, its not ment for whole picture with only these, but imagine this X200 times in 8 months...
 
please end now this is going on and on :lolup: i can,t concentrate on my slots with this post which is going one way then another desist varlets and play the game or leave the casino.:D
 
Errrr... no I don't get your drift - I am completely lost by your post actually! :oops:

The chances of getting 3 or more scatters in view on Cashapillar IS once in every 169.09 spins. It doesn't matter which reels they land on - those are still the odds.
FYI there is only 1 scatter on reels 1, 2 & 3 - but 3 on reel 4 and 2 on reel 5.
The chance of getting a scatter on each reel is as follows (from reel 1 to 5):
1 in 15.80
1 in 15.60
1 in 14.80
1 in 6.27
1 in 9.40

I know this because I spent several hours every day for more than a week plotting the reel layouts from multiple screenshots so that I could put the data on my site:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(These reel-strips were later verified by another CM member who found a way to "grab" them from the casinos streaming of the flash game)

So the odds of getting scatters on reels 1 & 2 is 15.8 x 15.6 = 246.48/1 against - not the 25/1 you said.

Note: The above figures are based on the slot being a 100% true random game - which I personally believe to be the case.

KK

Okay, I will try and break it down, it`s one of those things that is hard to explain, I used odds of 25/1 for arguments sake, i`ve never seen the reel strips of Cashapillar, right here we go, you have hit scatters on reels one and two disregard this for a second, what are the odds of hitting at least one scatter on reels 3-4-5?, reel 3 is roughly 15-1, reel 4 is 25-4 and 5 is roughly 19-2, if you sort these spins out to so they don`t coincide with each other as such, so I rounded them up to a number they can be equally divided by = 30, reel 3 will have landed twice, reel 4 = 5 times and reel 5 = 3 times which equals 10 scatters in 30 spins, so basically there is a scatter on one of these reels every 3 spins or so.

The odds of hitting 3 scatters reduces dramatically if you have hit scatters on reels 1-2, as you have 3 shots at hitting one, however, the odds increase if you have not Ie. you need reels 3-4-5, next time you play any slot that you know the reel strips of see how many times you miss the last 3 reels when you have scatters on reels 1 and 2.

The odds of hitting the 1st two scatters on Cashapillar are 246.48-1, the odds of hitting a third are reduced unless you set a specific reel for your 3rd scatter to land as you have 3 bites at the cherry, so imho the odds of hitting 3 scatters should be readjusted accordingly as to which reels the scatters have landed on, the odds of hitting scatters on reels 1-2-3 on Cashapillar are 3647.904/1, the odds of hitting 3 scatters after reels 1-2 scatters have landed are a whole lot less than the odds on hitting the 1st or last 3 scatters.

Basically the RNG should re-assess the chances of hitting 3 scatters as the scatters land accordingly, although this would be impossible as the RNG decides when 3 scatters should land and the reel strips follow suit, and not as is the case which entails your calculus above, over a few million spins this will pan out and the maths will tally up correctly, but, if the reel strips landed completely random and not as programmed to land after the RNG sends the relative data, then the odds of hitting 3 scatters would change drastically as to which reels they land on 1st and 2nd.


Next time you play Cashapillar take notes of how many times the 3rd scatter lands after reels 1 and 2 have landed, or even better, see how many times reels 3-4-5 scatters will land to make two scatters, as to how many times they land to make three, like I stated above the odds should greatly reduce of hitting 3 scatters after 1-2 have landed, they do not, this is down to the predetermined RNG calculus of the reel strips and how many spins it should take on average before they land, real random stuff doesn`t work like this, take 25 million people (or how many combinations the UK lotto generates) each having different numbers but all the possible combinations have been covered, all these people retain the same numbers every draw, after 25 million draws do you think every single person has won, or some have won several times?.


I really hope this makes sense lol.
 
Thanks ... Let me read that again :lolup:


Okay, I will try and break it down, it`s one of those things that is hard to explain, I used odds of 25/1 for arguments sake, i`ve never seen the reel strips of Cashapillar, right here we go, you have hit scatters on reels one and two disregard this for a second, what are the odds of hitting at least one scatter on reels 3-4-5?, reel 3 is roughly 15-1, reel 4 is 25-4 and 5 is roughly 19-2, if you sort these spins out to so they don`t coincide with each other as such, so I rounded them up to a number they can be equally divided by = 30, reel 3 will have landed twice, reel 4 = 5 times and reel 5 = 3 times which equals 10 scatters in 30 spins, so basically there is a scatter on one of these reels every 3 spins or so.

The odds of hitting 3 scatters reduces dramatically if you have hit scatters on reels 1-2, as you have 3 shots at hitting one, however, the odds increase if you have not Ie. you need reels 3-4-5, next time you play any slot that you know the reel strips of see how many times you miss the last 3 reels when you have scatters on reels 1 and 2.

The odds of hitting the 1st two scatters on Cashapillar are 246.48-1, the odds of hitting a third are reduced unless you set a specific reel for your 3rd scatter to land as you have 3 bites at the cherry, so imho the odds of hitting 3 scatters should be readjusted accordingly as to which reels the scatters have landed on, the odds of hitting scatters on reels 1-2-3 on Cashapillar are 3647.904/1, the odds of hitting 3 scatters after reels 1-2 scatters have landed are a whole lot less than the odds on hitting the 1st or last 3 scatters.

Basically the RNG should re-assess the chances of hitting 3 scatters as the scatters land accordingly, although this would be impossible as the RNG decides when 3 scatters should land and the reel strips follow suit, and not as is the case which entails your calculus above, over a few million spins this will pan out and the maths will tally up correctly, but, if the reel strips landed completely random and not as programmed to land after the RNG sends the relative data, then the odds of hitting 3 scatters would change drastically as to which reels they land on 1st and 2nd.


Next time you play Cashapillar take notes of how many times the 3rd scatter lands after reels 1 and 2 have landed, or even better, see how many times reels 3-4-5 scatters will land to make two scatters, as to how many times they land to make three, like I stated above the odds should greatly reduce of hitting 3 scatters after 1-2 have landed, they do not, this is down to the predetermined RNG calculus of the reel strips and how many spins it should take on average before they land, real random stuff doesn`t work like this, take 25 million people (or how many combinations the UK lotto generates) each having different numbers but all the possible combinations have been covered, all these people retain the same numbers every draw, after 25 million draws do you think every single person has won, or some have won several times?.


I really hope this makes sense lol.
 
I find that Cashpillar not good value for money. Playing 1 cent per line at $1 per spin is a big pffft to me. If you want win big and if you only can afford go for 5 cent per line or more to win decent on Cashpillar. Not on boring 1 cent per line. And hard to get free game is another problem as you described earlier. Try a different slot that is better value for your money. It is very hard to win big in cashpillar with only 1 cent per line too as it is extremely high variance much worse compare to the Isis is much better off with than Cashpillar really imo though. Most game I have played ever since are Mega Moolah Isis, Previously Lord of the ring now The Dark Knight, Dolphin Coast, other machine offer better than Cashpillar by miles though too.
 
Okay, I will try and break it down, it`s one of those things that is hard to explain, I used odds of 25/1 for arguments sake, i`ve never seen the reel strips of Cashapillar, right here we go, you have hit scatters on reels one and two disregard this for a second, what are the odds of hitting at least one scatter on reels 3-4-5?, reel 3 is roughly 15-1, reel 4 is 25-4 and 5 is roughly 19-2, if you sort these spins out to so they don`t coincide with each other as such, so I rounded them up to a number they can be equally divided by = 30, reel 3 will have landed twice, reel 4 = 5 times and reel 5 = 3 times which equals 10 scatters in 30 spins, so basically there is a scatter on one of these reels every 3 spins or so.

The odds of hitting 3 scatters reduces dramatically if you have hit scatters on reels 1-2, as you have 3 shots at hitting one, however, the odds increase if you have not Ie. you need reels 3-4-5, next time you play any slot that you know the reel strips of see how many times you miss the last 3 reels when you have scatters on reels 1 and 2.

The odds of hitting the 1st two scatters on Cashapillar are 246.48-1, the odds of hitting a third are reduced unless you set a specific reel for your 3rd scatter to land as you have 3 bites at the cherry, so imho the odds of hitting 3 scatters should be readjusted accordingly as to which reels the scatters have landed on, the odds of hitting scatters on reels 1-2-3 on Cashapillar are 3647.904/1, the odds of hitting 3 scatters after reels 1-2 scatters have landed are a whole lot less than the odds on hitting the 1st or last 3 scatters.

Basically the RNG should re-assess the chances of hitting 3 scatters as the scatters land accordingly, although this would be impossible as the RNG decides when 3 scatters should land and the reel strips follow suit, and not as is the case which entails your calculus above, over a few million spins this will pan out and the maths will tally up correctly, but, if the reel strips landed completely random and not as programmed to land after the RNG sends the relative data, then the odds of hitting 3 scatters would change drastically as to which reels they land on 1st and 2nd.


Next time you play Cashapillar take notes of how many times the 3rd scatter lands after reels 1 and 2 have landed, or even better, see how many times reels 3-4-5 scatters will land to make two scatters, as to how many times they land to make three, like I stated above the odds should greatly reduce of hitting 3 scatters after 1-2 have landed, they do not, this is down to the predetermined RNG calculus of the reel strips and how many spins it should take on average before they land, real random stuff doesn`t work like this, take 25 million people (or how many combinations the UK lotto generates) each having different numbers but all the possible combinations have been covered, all these people retain the same numbers every draw, after 25 million draws do you think every single person has won, or some have won several times?.


I really hope this makes sense lol.

I read that post last night after a few glasses of wine and couldn't make any sense of it.

Now it's the next day and I'm sober and it still doesn't make any sense :lolup:

I'm not sure what you're getting at Seventh? That the reels are weighted and the actual odds of a three scatters spin aren't as expected by random chance going off the reel strips? i.e. The slot is designed to deliver lots of near misses?
 
I read that post last night after a few glasses of wine and couldn't make any sense of it.

Now it's the next day and I'm sober and it still doesn't make any sense :lolup:

I'm not sure what you're getting at Seventh? That the reels are weighted and the actual odds of a three scatters spin aren't as expected by random chance going off the reel strips? i.e. The slot is designed to deliver lots of near misses?

It would appear so.. I dunno. That post has confuckulated the hell out of me tbh :eek2:
 
I've a question for you guys...

Why are you implying that it works like mechanical slots with X number of symbols on each reel? We know for a fact that that's not how real life video slots work, so why would it be any different online?

The X number of symbols on each reel is only a skin and has nothing to do with the result. I see no logical reason why it would be different online than regular video slots, especially since they have to receive the "answer" (aka spin result) from the server after the request.

It's a random number generator and each number is associated with a win or a loss. So you send the request, the server sends back the random number, your software knows what the number is and "stops" the reels accordingly. I'm afraid that how many symbols that are present on each reel is irrelevant.

How video slots work:

-Random number generator is running all the time (even when you're not playing)
-As soon as you hit "spin" it stops on a number (ex: number 382,328)
-The software goes to the "winning/losing chart" to see what that number means (ex: number 382,328 = cherry cherry bar)
-Software orders the reels to "stop" on cherry cherry bar
 
I've a question for you guys...

Why are you implying that it works like mechanical slots with X number of symbols on each reel? We know for a fact that that's not how real life video slots work, so why would it be any different online?

The X number of symbols on each real is only a skin and has nothing to do with the result. I see no logical reason why it would be different online than regular video slots, especially since they have to receive the "answer" (aka spin result) from the server after the request.

It's a random number generator and each number is associated with a win or a loss. So you send the request, the server sends back the random number, your software knows what the number is and "stops" the reels accordingly. I'm afraid that how many symbols that are present on each reel is irrelevant.

How video slots work:

-Random number generator is running all the time (even when you're not playing)
-As soon as you hit "spin" it stops on a number (ex: number 382,328)
-The software goes to the "winning/losing chart" to see what that number means (ex: number 382,328 = cherry cherry bar)
-Software orders the reels to "stop" at a cherry cherry bar

As I understand it, in the past at least, MG's video slots reel strips were 'genuine', insofar as you could work out the T-RTP from the reel strips and the true random chance of each of them landing on any given stop.

AFAIK, that isn't the case for their more recent video slots, whereby the reel strips are indeed just a representation of what the RNG has called and nothing more. (As such they appear to be weighted to show near misses and suchlike.)
 
As I understand it, in the past at least, MG's video slots reel strips were 'genuine', insofar as you could work out the T-RTP from the reel strips and the true random chance of each of them landing on any given stop.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
?? when did this change take place ??
 
I've a question for you guys...

Why are you implying that it works like mechanical slots with X number of symbols on each reel? We know for a fact that that's not how real life video slots work, so why would it be any different online?

The X number of symbols on each reel is only a skin and has nothing to do with the result. I see no logical reason why it would be different online than regular video slots, especially since they have to receive the "answer" (aka spin result) from the server after the request.

It's a random number generator and each number is associated with a win or a loss. So you send the request, the server sends back the random number, your software knows what the number is and "stops" the reels accordingly. I'm afraid that how many symbols that are present on each reel is irrelevant.

How video slots work:

-Random number generator is running all the time (even when you're not playing)
-As soon as you hit "spin" it stops on a number (ex: number 382,328)
-The software goes to the "winning/losing chart" to see what that number means (ex: number 382,328 = cherry cherry bar)
-Software orders the reels to "stop" on cherry cherry bar

You are incorrect.

RTG real series slots work exactly like that I.e. the TRTP is controlled by the number of stops on each reel.....which is why they're called real series slots.

@rockycatt.

Chopley is merely speculating. No one knows when changes were made because no one knows IF changes were made (except for chopley obviously....in fact he can name the very first slot that used this "New" method, and point out the differences between it and the old ones......can't you chop)
 
Chopley is merely speculating. No one knows when changes were made because no one knows IF changes were made (except for chopley obviously....in fact he can name the very first slot that used this "New" method, and point out the differences between it and the old ones......can't you chop)

I was pretty sure I'd read it in more than one thread here at CM, hopefully someone can confirm.

We know they weight their basic reel slots (Tunzamunni being the most blatant example I can think of, which drops the progressive jackpot sevens combo above and below the winline with stunningly tedious regularity), so I see no reason for them not to do so with their multi line video slots.

Then you have the fact that a lot of slots use completely different reels for free spins/bonus features, IR springs immediately to mind, where it's really obvious in Wild Desire and on the Rolling Reels free spins round - how do you work out a T-RTP for those slots based on the reels alone?

Didn't someone work out the T-RTP for Mega Moolah based on the reel strips alone and it came out at over 100%? Which meant there had to be weighting going on or the slot would have basically been a cash dispenser. I've definitely seen a thread about that here at CM. (Some MG slot anyway, even if it wasn't Mega Moolah.)
 
As I understand it, in the past at least, MG's video slots reel strips were 'genuine', insofar as you could work out the T-RTP from the reel strips and the true random chance of each of them landing on any given stop.

Well you can quite easily work the T-RTP with the RNG (all they have to do is add or remove winning numbers), like they do in land based casinos. Why would the reels be "genuine"? I don't see any advantage and it's going against logic. If the reels were genuine, the winning combinations would be generated locally, which would be begging for trouble.
 
I've a question for you guys...

Why are you implying that it works like mechanical slots with X number of symbols on each reel? We know for a fact that that's not how real life video slots work, so why would it be any different online?

The X number of symbols on each reel is only a skin and has nothing to do with the result. I see no logical reason why it would be different online than regular video slots, especially since they have to receive the "answer" (aka spin result) from the server after the request.
I'm sorry - but they ARE different online - whether you want to see it or not.
Not all online slots though, I grant you that, but the majority.

Basically there are 4 different types of slots available online, which I would describe like this:
1. AWP - you basically have to "fill up" the slot before you have ANY chance of getting a top pay-out. These slots are "controlled" by the software to produce a set RTP. (In the UK these games are also called Fruit Machines).
2. "Bingo Slots" - The outcome of a spin is decided by a "lottery type" draw within the software. The reels are than displayed in the appropriate configuration to give the corresponding win. These slots can also be "compensated" by the software to produce a set RTP. (Some people also call this type of slot an AWP)
3. "Weighted slots" - The odds of a symbol landing on a win-line is NOT proportional to the number of symbols on the reel; There can be the same number of each symbol on identical reel-strips for all reels, but the chances of any given symbol landing on the win-line are different for each symbol and/or reel. (e.g. the chance of hitting a cherry on each reel could be 1:5, while the chance of hitting the jackpot symbol could be 1:50 on one reel, 1:75 on the next reel, etc..). These slots are still 100% random and the RTP is achieved by the odds of each symbol hitting and the pay-table.
4. Random Video Slots - on these the outcome of any spin is completely random and all wins are formed 100% by chance; All the symbols on each of the reels have exactly equal odds of landing on the win-line. The RTP is governed solely by the reel layouts & the pay-table.

MicroGaming for example, have at least three types in their casinos:
Type 1: clearly marked as AWPs.
Type 3: most (if not all) of their 3-reel slots, and a couple of their older 5-reel slots.
Type 4: all the other 5-reel slots - known as "Bonus Video Slots"

The main problem for the online gambler, is that no software (that I know of) tells the players whether they are playing a type 2, 3 or type 4 slot. (Type 1s are usually very easy to spot, but even a few of them might be hard to differentiate).

KK
 
well got to say had my withdrawal & deposit info back over a few years to be honest wasnt as bad as i first thought , so it seems im on another dry spell again , so going by the fact of viewing my deposits looks like i shall indeed be back playing at red , seeing as im never going to get treated anywhere better than i do , looks like im back on board for the rest of the year )
 
I'm sorry - but they ARE different online - whether you want to see it or not.

Hi KK,

I appreciate your answer. I originally wrote a long reply but then decided to keep it simple.

For obvious basic security reasons, spin results are not and cannot be generated locally (on your PC), that's why you can't play while you're offline and sometimes the spins will go on forever (can't communicate with server). Do we agree on that?
 
Hi KK,

I appreciate your answer. I originally wrote a long reply but then decided to keep it simple.

For obvious basic security reasons, spin results are not and cannot be generated locally (on your PC), that's why you can't play while you're offline and sometimes the spins will go on forever (can't communicate with server). Do we agree on that?
Yes, that's true... for all softwares except Cryptologic.
With Crypto you can play offline (for fun, obviously!) and the software uses an RNG on your own PC.
All other softwares use an RNG on their own server - both for fun and real money play.

KK
 

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