32Red hit with £2m UKGC penalty (RG/ML regulations)

dunover

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I'd say the biggest indication of a problem gambler is a large amount of depositing and never withdrawing. This means that the player is in the 'zone' and bestows no value to the money being spent, it is simply a means to keep playing.
 

Harry_BKK

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I'd say the biggest indication of a problem gambler is a large amount of depositing and never withdrawing. This means that the player is in the 'zone' and bestows no value to the money being spent, it is simply a means to keep playing.

Did everybody read this carefully?

They say 22 indications of a problem gambler. I had a feeling it would be cases he asked live chat for a bonus and it was!
"“I have had enough of the site not performing well”, “I’ve deposited quite a sum”, “all I seem to do is deposit”, they were each met with a bonus being applied to the account."
Everybody does that! It doesn't mean we are problem gamblers! It is only 22 times in years of playing?! OMG. :eek:

They say total deposits over the years, and they say 45k average deposits per month. What about cashouts? No cashouts in all these years?
They could use "net deposits", but they didn't. So UKGC intentionally mentions only deposits and not "losses" or "net deposits" or withdrawals.


Another thing, they say average deposits. That is not the same as 45k deposited every month. Probably biggest part was deposited right after a big cashout, making the "average deposits" comparison with monthly income completely pointless.

Another small thing about AML. UKGC says "high risk situations, such as VIPs". Do they mean big deposits with low risk play and big cashouts? Or they have no idea what they are talking about?
And they didn't mention any cashouts from this player, what kind of ML was that? :p:lolup:

Or should I go to their guidelines "go well beyond any triggers and don't wait for suspicious behavior" meaning for UKGC everybody is considered guilty.


All the above doesn't mean 32red couldn't do better, or that the player doesn't have a problem.
It rather proves what Max and others said. UKGC is more about what makes them look good than what actually protects players.

I might add to my post that I never made a withdrawal from December 1998 to August 2006, not once!!! Although my deposits reduced significantly after 2004, but overall I would say about EUR1Mil down the LARGE drain without a single withdrawal! :oops:

Hence, it could well be this player never attempted a withdrawal or was seriously thinking about it.

Now, losing a win of GBP1Mil, be it pending as withdrawal or not, should have had all bells and whistles going off even in the most untrained support staff. Boggles me though, how you would lose 1Mil in a matter of a day or two. The highest my balance went up, was around 120K betting EUR45 - 125 and it took about 2 weeks to lose it all again.
 

mack341

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May 8, 2018
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south east england
I remember over a year ago making a jokey comment to william hill live chat, when the assistant asked me how I was doing today, I replied that I could do with some luck, the customer assistant didn't say anything to me but when I tried to log in 30 mins later my account was frozen.

I went back onto live chat and they said my account had been frozen because they thought I might be a problem gambler, I informed them that I didn't have a gambling problem and was joking about my luck, and they reopened my account for me, bearing in mind my deposits at will hill had always been under £100 and not that often it shows some customer assistants are more proactive than others. [and will hill have also been fined by ukgc]
 

mack341

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south east england
An idea that keeps reappearing in my head is this: could the UKGC itself create an offshoot organisation/company that solely deals with responsible gambling and money laundering, whereby every customer's account transactions [deposit, withdrawal, playing time etc]are automatically relayed to their system and they then flag up the customers they want to look at further. the casinos could pay UKGC an annual fee based on their size.
 

Harry_BKK

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Dec 18, 2014
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Balcony
An idea that keeps reappearing in my head is this: could the UKGC itself create an offshoot organisation/company that solely deals with responsible gambling and money laundering, whereby every customer's account transactions [deposit, withdrawal, playing time etc]are automatically relayed to their system and they then flag up the customers they want to look at further. the casinos could pay UKGC an annual fee based on their size.

Would you really like it that your government gets that much info on you?
 

mack341

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south east england
Would you really like it that your government gets that much info on you?

In the ideal world no, but I think the company could run as a private entity, I mean if you take lloyds bank the govt still owns a big chunk of that and also a 60% stake of RBS, but they don't pry into everybody's bank accounts [at least I don't think they do :rolleyes:].

The UKGC keeps issuing rules and guidance to the casinos about AML and RG , so I think to myself if its that easy why don't UKGC take it over. They can follow their own guidance to stop all the money laundering taking place and spot the problem gamblers.

Initially the company, which could be kind of like the gambling equivalent of experian or equifax, would just receive the basic information about a customer of the casino e.g. daily deposits, withdrawals and playing time. They would have to use a computer system/program to analyse the data, and then any warning signs that flag up regarding a particular customer could be investigated further in coordination with the casino.

If I have to I would rather send my bank statements and financial information to an arm of ukgc than say to an online bookie [betfair, coral etc..] where I have accounts.

I know this idea will never happen but I think it could work, really all it requires is a daily data transfer from the casinos to the specialist company UKGC have set up and the AML and RG system for the industry could be centralised. If a customer does a SOW check tomorrow for one casino and then deposits more money at another casino the following week, then his income figure the casino worked out for responsible gambling is now of date. Whereas if all the data is centralised in one location, responsible gambling calculations for the customer could be checked more accurately.

Just as I write this I realise It smacks of Big brother and the nanny state, but If you read the UKGC guidance it seems thats where things are heading anyway.
 
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Harry_BKK

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Wow!! :eek:

My bigger point there was that I am confident UKGC would have mentioned it (make a big deal out of it actually) if the player never had a withdrawal all this time. ;)

TBH, the player in this case sounds a lot like me in those years. E.g. maybe he left the balance in his account as I did. Had quite a few times balances of 20, 30K and more, and still wouldn't hit the withdraw button but was thinking I might be on a roll and will try to increase it further the next day. I was adamant that one day I would make it to a massive 500K withdrawal, which of course never happened. :oops:
 

bowki

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I might add to my post that I never made a withdrawal from December 1998 to August 2006, not once!!! Although my deposits reduced significantly after 2004, but overall I would say about EUR1Mil down the LARGE drain without a single withdrawal! :oops:

Wow Harry! Have you ever considered writing a book about your life? You have so many exciting stories to tell. And I’m sure we haven’t heard the most exciting ones. :eek:
 

nikantw

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EU
TBH, the player in this case sounds a lot like me in those years. E.g. maybe he left the balance in his account as I did. Had quite a few times balances of 20, 30K and more, and still wouldn't hit the withdraw button but was thinking I might be on a roll and will try to increase it further the next day. I was adamant that one day I would make it to a massive 500K withdrawal, which of course never happened. :oops:

Harry "The Gambler" :p

upload_2018-6-21_12-43-33.jpeg

I am really glad you changed that tactic after 2006.
 
J

Jory

Guest
I remember over a year ago making a jokey comment to william hill live chat, when the assistant asked me how I was doing today, I replied that I could do with some luck, the customer assistant didn't say anything to me but when I tried to log in 30 mins later my account was frozen.

I had a similar experience with William Will last summer. When asked how I doing I casually mentioned I was just having a few beers. I then got a lecture about how it's irresponsible to drink alcohol while gambling and that my account will now be frozen for 24 hours.

I think that was the only time I've ever felt insulted by a live chat agent. I even had a £10 deposit limit in place at the time. After the 24 hours I logged in and excluded for 5 years since I clearly had a problem.

Thanks William Hill for showing me the light! :p
 

TheAddict

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Kent
Hmm, and then if will hill ever opened a b&m casino and transferred staff to it you could meet the same person at the desk one day who sais that you get your first 2 drinks half price for becoming a new member.
What a donkey, ive responded a few times that im a bit drunk and went on to have a joke and a laugh with the CS agent in conersation. Recently one who was jealous and that he cant get a beer until finishing at 8pm haha.
Or an 888 a long time ago, a CS agent who tried to take advantage and chat me up (obviously had access to my photo ID)
 

Nicola

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Jan 22, 2013
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Malta
I checked with the UKGC over the "enticements" received by the player from 32Red - these were standard deposit match offers which are offered to us all - nothing special or out of the ordinary for VIP players. This is where some of the media reports yesterday/today have made it sound worse than it was.

I'm not the biggest fan of 32Red, I closed my account there a few years back when they introduced the 'pending period' but I feel they were made a scapegoat here. They did miss opportunities granted. Interested to know if he/she was a slots or roulette player. £1m win replayed sounds like a progressive!
 

t4llek

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portugal
I might add to my post that I never made a withdrawal from December 1998 to August 2006, not once!!! Although my deposits reduced significantly after 2004, but overall I would say about EUR1Mil down the LARGE drain without a single withdrawal! :oops:

Hence, it could well be this player never attempted a withdrawal or was seriously thinking about it.

Now, losing a win of GBP1Mil, be it pending as withdrawal or not, should have had all bells and whistles going off even in the most untrained support staff. Boggles me though, how you would lose 1Mil in a matter of a day or two. The highest my balance went up, was around 120K betting EUR45 - 125 and it took about 2 weeks to lose it all again.
surely he was allowed to go bigger? dunno, but i remember the maximum was 500€ spins on the original break da bank at 32 red a few years ago just to give an example
 

Harry_BKK

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surely he was allowed to go bigger? dunno, but i remember the maximum was 500€ spins on the original break da bank at 32 red a few years ago just to give an example

Sure, yes... there are a few MG slots with $500 a maximum bets, still to lose GBP 1 Million within two days on slots alone you must be super super unlucky. It just doesn't go that quick.
 

pmhcfc

Experienced Member
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Oct 31, 2008
Location
UK
Interesting read this...

I have my own opinions on 32 Red but the one question that I keep asking myself....Just how much do you need to win before it's enough...

Surely if any of us on this forum won a seven-figure sum then it would be life changing...let alone to someone who brings home £2100 per month (puts him on about £34k doesn't it?). I know we're all gamblers to lesser or greater degrees, but seriously...a SEVEN-figure win!

Personally, I've been gambling online since you could, not always been great at withdrawing...but seriously, if I played back a £1m + win then I'd be driving into a tree at high speed.
 

t4llek

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May 31, 2013
Location
portugal
Interesting read this...

I have my own opinions on 32 Red but the one question that I keep asking myself....Just how much do you need to win before it's enough...

Surely if any of us on this forum won a seven-figure sum then it would be life changing...let alone to someone who brings home £2100 per month (puts him on about £34k doesn't it?). I know we're all gamblers to lesser or greater degrees, but seriously...a SEVEN-figure win!

Personally, I've been gambling online since you could, not always been great at withdrawing...but seriously, if I played back a £1m + win then I'd be driving into a tree at high speed.
The problem is theres times when 500 was enough and then some where 150 was enough but there were also times were 10k werent enough and i just blew it all, its the mindstate ur in and for the kinds of bets were talking about here i have no doubts that no matter the amount the guy would still lose it all deep pockets with a gamling problem is allways fucked up.
 
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