Casino Complaint 32red club rouge FOR LIFE

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vinylweatherman

You type well loads
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sorry vinyl where is my dob visible on this site?
they did say it would come into effect next month.I say there is no need to vary the contract it is for life(which has already been the subject of too much debate)

It isn't, but it has touched a nerve so presumably the 200% up to £500 you will lose out on is irritating in the extreme.

Besides, they HAVE backtracked. You can have your Club Rouge back as per original "for life". The message you have used to justify your position was the "Club Rouge for life" that appeared in your status. The message said nothing about "Enhanced dish of the day for life", as this is simply the latest of a series of promotions that has been run for both regular and Club Rouge members.

Therefore, by your own argument, if they concede the point and let you remain Club Rouge "for life", but no longer invite you to specific promotions that are applicable to SOME players, they have still fulfilled the "Club Rouge for life" element of the contract, and still abided by other terms that govern individual promotions where it has NEVER been advertised as "for life".

If they terminate the long running Dish of the Day, and start something new, and don't send you the invite, then you can't even argue that your original invite & subsequent contract for Dish of the Day has been breached.

ALL promotions begin with an email invite, and it is stated that only players sent the invite are eligible. This is completely separate from the loyalty system, including Club Rouge. It's now also enforced because the claim system is in the lobby, and is tied to the eligibility database, so if you are not eligible, you just get the standard "mobile play" page when you log in, rather than the offer & claim page.

It has already been revealed that there are differing levels and deals within Club Rouge, so they would be doing nothing new by having a Club Rouge for you that was geared for your preference for VP and Roulette, yet also gave the casino a fair chance to win from the bonuses offered.

So far, no boot email for me, even though I probably deserve one for those three monster hits:D
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
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Location
n ireland
It isn't, but it has touched a nerve so presumably the 200% up to £500 you will lose out on is irritating in the extreme.

Besides, they HAVE backtracked. You can have your Club Rouge back as per original "for life". The message you have used to justify your position was the "Club Rouge for life" that appeared in your status. The message said nothing about "Enhanced dish of the day for life", as this is simply the latest of a series of promotions that has been run for both regular and Club Rouge members.

Therefore, by your own argument, if they concede the point and let you remain Club Rouge "for life", but no longer invite you to specific promotions that are applicable to SOME players, they have still fulfilled the "Club Rouge for life" element of the contract, and still abided by other terms that govern individual promotions where it has NEVER been advertised as "for life".

If they terminate the long running Dish of the Day, and start something new, and don't send you the invite, then you can't even argue that your original invite & subsequent contract for Dish of the Day has been breached.

ALL promotions begin with an email invite, and it is stated that only players sent the invite are eligible. This is completely separate from the loyalty system, including Club Rouge. It's now also enforced because the claim system is in the lobby, and is tied to the eligibility database, so if you are not eligible, you just get the standard "mobile play" page when you log in, rather than the offer & claim page.

It has already been revealed that there are differing levels and deals within Club Rouge, so they would be doing nothing new by having a Club Rouge for you that was geared for your preference for VP and Roulette, yet also gave the casino a fair chance to win from the bonuses offered.

So far, no boot email for me, even though I probably deserve one for those three monster hits:D

Thats why i asked its isn't for months so i couldn't understand where you got it from.
I'll do this short and sweet short of time,my situation may be slightly different to most.At the outset when i started dealing with 32red and they offered me the EMB which was originally 1k a month it was a stipulation of mine that i wasn't going to move from where i was to get something that would be removed later (you understand from my posting that i'm pretty thorough with stuff like this).I was assured that it would always be on my account regardless of play,i could deposit some months or not, play when i liked at whatever level(I did the deal over the phone and can't remember if i got an email hence my sars request but a deal is a deal verbal or not).I took them at their word and the reason i remember it clearly was that was my most major concern as i didn't want to lose loyalty status elsewhere and then them take it off and have nothing. I moved the majority of my business and that deal was renegotiated to a 2k monthly bonus at a later date.I provided the forum with the letter from them that was sent removing the EMB and again i remember clearly walking down the road and talking (well maybe screaming a bit) at jonathan about them trying now to renege on the deal.For a while before the letter i dont think there was a daily bonus but rather a sporadic one which they let me claim on top of my EMB.The reasoning i was given was that they had introduced a daily bonus but actually nothing had changed over the course of the month in relation to what i would receive in bonus apart from my wagering requirement which on my EMB had been set to either 10 or 20 times and mark from 32 red can email me about that so i can clarify instead of spending his time 'liking' silly youtube videos while not putting any actual input into the complaint (previously i would have played the 2k match at 12.01am on the 1st of the month, i probably got a bit of an advantage out of it but then they had a chance to get it back and more over the course of the month) and the fact that i would actually get a touch more than the 2k match but it would be spread over the whole month instead of me being able to claim it in one go.Had this variation not included a match of at least the same amount i would have had no hesitation in taking legal action at that point and i told Jonathan that in no uncertain terms,the conversation was quite heated.However i don't actually consider myself an OVERALL advantage player (and let me clarify i know its in my favour playing VP on those bonus terms but it may be misleading to say 75-25 Vp and Roulette as my roulette staking is high and when i play roulette i'm either going to win big or lose my shirt, i just view the VP as a bit of a nixer but a nixer i agreed and as far as i'm concerned had an undertaking on).
So the deal continued at probably just over 2k a month in matches at the 30times wagering for years and i was happy enough.And then i get the email the subject of this thread out of the blue with no forewarning from someone i never even heard of at 32red (this steven bowler is only there 3mths odd) and giving no explanation other than its a 'business decision'.It was a complete shock and the way it was done annoyed me deeply.Why should i have to accept another variation backwards (600 times wagering on VP instead of 30,no 200% birthday bonus etc.) when nothing had ever changed on my end and we had a deal in place.I don't play for pennies and had taken a chance with ED and 32red when they were only getting going right and it appears my reward for that loyalty is to be continually cut and taken for a mug.I emailed ED as soon as i got the email with the subject line "THIS IS F@@@ING SHITE" and never got a response which led me in my annoyance to the Forum.
The best deals you ever do are the ones where you don't have to rely on T+C's. I've done deals with Corporates throughtout my career where you have to dot every I and cross every T or your screwed and i've done 7 and 8 figure deals with guys from smaller operations on a handshake and not a piece of paper changing hands.I was involved in litigation every year with the former and not once with the latter.I understand the value of dealing with people and to listen to some of the tripe that is spewed on this forum about me being hard and difficult to deal with by people who don't even take the time to read/digest the information available to them, never mind not knowing the full facts just gets me annoyed.It is for that reason this is my last post.It is for all of the above why i rebuked mark from 32red's offer of a varied offer.I don't feel it was generous or fair at all and i am just disgusted that people who had my patronage for so long and with who i enjoyed a relativley friendly business relationship with could go this way on me.As i said before the good things that i saw in 32red have been eroded away and i should of seen the warning signs with the removal of the weekend ewallet cashouts and the way it was handled.
If anybody knows of an operator who is what 32red used to be perhaps you will post with their info and why you feel they would suit me. I would certainly appreciate it.I will enjoy reading your feedback but thats me done.If nobody else got letters yet i hope they don't come but i do think you should take some warning from my experience and if there are people like me out there who like to negotiate 'specials' i suggest you get it all down on paper so you are always comfortable with your position.
Have luck at the tables whatever your game and remember on the bad days , the guy that never lost nothing never made anything
LOL just previewed the post neither short or sweet!
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
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I read every post in detail. Here are my thoughts as I was reading…

Jackpot Capital did a similar thing. See: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/jackpot-capitals-new-vip-program-wtf.64268/?t=64268
I wish Laurie luck in that, but I think it’s futile. There’s not much that can be done about it I’m sorry to say. Unless I’m mistaken there is a difference here; Jackpot Capital never said “…for life.”

This is quite frankly ridiculous and i see they have changed the club rouge for life wording to 'you current tier is club rouge'
I see the reasoning given by Jonathan was: “The ‘for life’ wording displayed in the loyalty section was part of the mechanics of the loyalty software we brought in back in February 2012.”
Even if it was the “mechanics of the loyalty software…” 32Red are still somewhat responsible for the “…for life” statement.

Later in the thread…
... there was a message in the lobby saying 'Tier for life' which we had no control over.
I don’t believe that. You could have easily sent a disclaimer email to recipients of the club rouge promotion clearly explaining that it’s a technical issue. That, and you could have done many other things to make it clearer. 32Red are still largely responsible for that statement.

… but we are happy that the T&C covered any confusion this may have brought.
Clearly, that is not the case as OP seems quite confused about it.
Even with the T&C correcting the ‘for life’ statement everyone would agree that it’s not ideal to have conflicting information and because of that I think 32Red have done a ‘little wrong.’
In these scenarios it’s appropriate to show a little remorse. I scoured the thread and could not find one word of remorse from 32Red about the conflicting information.

They have had my patronage on the basis that i had this status guaranteed...
This speaks quite loudly as well. OP deposited extra at this casino because of the “…for life” statement.

3.The casino may, at their sole discretion, limit the eligibility of customers to participate in this promotion, for any reason whatsoever without notice to the end users. No correspondence will be entered into. 32Red's decision will be considered final in the event of a dispute.
4.The casino reserves the right to modify, alter, discontinue or terminate this promotion at any time for any reason whatsoever without notice to the end users, using reasonable efforts to provide such notice in advance.
These terms specifically refer to the club rogue status. The terms essentially say that they can take away the ‘for life’ part of club rouge. But, the problem is it’s a contradiction. In one section 32Red are saying it’s for life and in another section they are saying they can take it away. The T&C should be believed over what it says elsewhere because the T&C holds more authority.

You are mistaken and to take it to an extreme level if one of the terms was 'if you win too much we reserve the right to come to your house and shoot you' are you saying that just because they write it they have an entitlement to carry it through? LOL
My views on this subject are still developing but I suspect all T&C must be reasonable because of the reason above. I’m not sure to be honest if the terms are reasonable in this case, but I suspect they are.
Here is a comment I made about unreasonable T&C recently in a different thread: “…I sometimes think that the idea of casinos having whatever terms and conditions they want is incorrect.”


When you get conflicting information in life always choose the one with the greater “evidence;” e.g. believe what’s in print over what’s said, believe the manager over the worker, and in this case believe the T&C over what it says in the lobby.
I don’t see any chance in arguing that you believed what it said in the lobby and that stops the false advertising argument as well.
The only hope I see is in the “unreasonable T&C” argument and because I don’t understand it I can’t comment on it. I suspect it wont lead anywhere though.
 

deepsky2

One more spin
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Location
toronto ontario canada
I'm not sure to post a pm I have from Rep but was just looking at its a few months old and The Rep does admit to me my status is set for life but says this may change in future would this be helpful? Should I post. I Havnt lost CR the response was in a few questions I had. But it does show that they new it said for life.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
I'm not sure to post a pm I have from Rep but was just looking at its a few months old and The Rep does admit to me my status is set for life but says this may change in future would this be helpful? Should I post. I Havnt lost CR the response was in a few questions I had. But it does show that they new it said for life.

You should of course not post a pm from any member if you haven't asked if it's ok to do that first.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I'm not sure to post a pm I have from Rep but was just looking at its a few months old and The Rep does admit to me my status is set for life but says this may change in future would this be helpful? Should I post. I Havnt lost CR the response was in a few questions I had. But it does show that they new it said for life.

This is a contradiction. If something is set for life, it cannot change unless the "life" of one party or entity comes to an end. This might be what was giving many the impression that Club Rouge was a "for life" honour, even though the terms and conditions did not back it up. A better answer might have been "for the foreseeable future".

It seems that players who are now getting the boot are also getting the impression that they have SERIOUSLY misbehaved in order to suffer such an exceptional expulsion from a "forever" club. If they are angry, it is because they feel the need to "put the record straight" and defend their reputation against the perceived "charges" of having done something to deserve the boot.

This could end up creating bad PR, depending on how many players are affected, their perceived reputation in whatever forum community they are a member of, and their side of the story.
 

petro

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PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
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Location
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@ VWM I was going to mention this in the $25k thread but 32Red must draw the line somewhere.

To pay players out for every little mistake they make and to be held accountable for their word (if it later turned out to be a mistake) for the rest of the business' life is unreasonable I think.

Imagine if that was imposed upon you or I? I know I couldn't live like that.

IMO 32Red need to learn to stand up for themselves more. (I just hope they don't go as far as the RTG casinos have :))
 

Mark_32Red (retired acct)

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32Red Marketing Dpt
I'm not sure to post a pm I have from Rep but was just looking at its a few months old and The Rep does admit to me my status is set for life but says this may change in future would this be helpful? Should I post. I Havnt lost CR the response was in a few questions I had. But it does show that they new it said for life.

Hi Deepsky.

I'll save you having to ask the question. Yes I did confirm the message said set for life and also confirmed it may change in the future. I mentioned this as I knew there was a software change pending which allowed us to remove the message.

Anyone who has been emailed and would like to keep their 'Club Rouge' tier status is very welcome to do so if the message in the lobby that we couldn't control is an issue for you. Any privileges however are/were bespoke and covered by the terms and conditions on our club rouge page.

@ the OP, apologies for liking the YouTube video but it was funny, I have a kid and was looking forward to such unpleasantries. I am not getting involved in your 'complaint' as you haven't asked, I don't know who you are and it's Jonathan's job to do so.

Regards
Mark
 

maphesto

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Location
Sweden
IS it worth going through all 12 pages? :rolleyes: :D

No!

Short version (correct me if I'm wrong):

*OP pissed, he isn't anymore welcome in Club Rouge, the VIP program in 32RED

*OP claims he is invited at Club Rouge and this status is for life

*OP is a high roller and has been so since 8 years back

*32RED says that the "for life" is/was a software glitch from Microgaming about a year ago and was not a 32RED decision

*32RED and members from here tell us that no T&C's whatsoever claims that the Club Rouge status is "for life"

*OP posts personal emails from 32RED to him in public

*Casinomeister/Bryan isnt happy about posting private emails and tells OP about it

*More members tell OP that this is ridiculous, move on!

*SIDENOTE: Among this tour 32RED admitted that even inside the Club Rouge VIP program there were some differencies, some CR members had more benefits than others

As said, correct me if I'm wrong. :)
 

PaaskeDenmark

Always think positive
webmeister
PABnoaccred
CAG
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No!

Short version (correct me if I'm wrong):

*OP pissed, he isn't anymore welcome in Club Rouge, the VIP program in 32RED

*OP claims he is invited at Club Rouge and this status is for life

*OP is a high roller and has been so since 8 years back

*32RED says that the "for life" is/was a software glitch from Microgaming about a year ago and was not a 32RED decision

*32RED and members from here tell us that no T&C's whatsoever claims that the Club Rouge status is "for life"

*OP posts personal emails from 32RED to him in public

*Casinomeister/Bryan isnt happy about posting private emails and tells OP about it

*More members tell OP that this is ridiculous, move on!

*SIDENOTE: Among this tour 32RED admitted that even inside the Club Rouge VIP program there were some differencies, some CR members had more benefits than others

As said, correct me if I'm wrong. :)

Great highlights thanks Maphesto. Seems I got most of what was in 2 first pages. But was shocked to find that in around 1 day I have not been here this thread had shot to 12 pages :notworthy:p
 

Nifty29

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Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Errrmmmm.....what?


I emailed ED as soon as i got the email with the subject line "THIS IS F@@@ING SHITE" and never got a response

What a disgraceful and disrespectful way to behave towards a casino rep. Well, to any kind of rep actually.

You've been carrying on here for days like a dodgy biryani repeating yourself constantly and ignoring all genuine attempts to assist. I mean, you can't even be arsed to make your posts readable.

If it were my casino, I would tell you to take a very long walk off a very short pier.
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
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...like a dodgy biryani...

I had to look it up: Biryani is a mixed rice dish from South Asia. It is made with spices, rice and meat or vegetables. I'm assuming a 'dodgy' one would keep repeating? Or is this a word with multiple meanings, like anorak? :confused:
 

mimi26

Meister Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Location
uk
Errrmmmm.....what?




What a disgraceful and disrespectful way to behave towards a casino rep. Well, to any kind of rep actually.

You've been carrying on here for days like a dodgy biryani repeating yourself constantly and ignoring all genuine attempts to assist. I mean, you can't even be arsed to make your posts readable.

If it were my casino, I would tell you to take a very long walk off a very short pier.


Totally agree, no wonder he didnt get a reply!!
 

PaaskeDenmark

Always think positive
webmeister
PABnoaccred
CAG
Joined
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Errrmmmm.....what?




What a disgraceful and disrespectful way to behave towards a casino rep. Well, to any kind of rep actually.

You've been carrying on here for days like a dodgy biryani repeating yourself constantly and ignoring all genuine attempts to assist. I mean, you can't even be arsed to make your posts readable.

If it were my casino, I would tell you to take a very long walk off a very short pier.

Agree if compared to a Company. I would not want any business or anything to do with that customer..... keep you money there is the door :thumbsup:
 

suzecat

Dormant account
Joined
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Location
California
No!

Short version (correct me if I'm wrong):

*OP pissed, he isn't anymore welcome in Club Rouge, the VIP program in 32RED

*OP claims he is invited at Club Rouge and this status is for life

*OP is a high roller and has been so since 8 years back

*32RED says that the "for life" is/was a software glitch from Microgaming about a year ago and was not a 32RED decision

*32RED and members from here tell us that no T&C's whatsoever claims that the Club Rouge status is "for life"

*OP posts personal emails from 32RED to him in public

*Casinomeister/Bryan isnt happy about posting private emails and tells OP about it

*More members tell OP that this is ridiculous, move on!

*SIDENOTE: Among this tour 32RED admitted that even inside the Club Rouge VIP program there were some differencies, some CR members had more benefits than others

As said, correct me if I'm wrong. :)


This could be a "so so" script for a soap opera. LOL

"As the chips fall" :D
 

trade

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Location
ontario
Why would Microgaming even HAVE a loyalty setting with a "for life" option if no casino has ever expressed a desire for it? In fact, this "for life" text was only added in the most recent version, it hasn't been there before. It would appear therefore that one or more operators other than 32Red actually asked for it, and intend to implement it.

I can also see one reason for the confusion. The terms keep referring to Club Rouge as "this promotion". This is ambiguous, as a "promotion" generally means an individual event run by a casino for a short period of time, such as a bonus, tournament, or extra point events. Club Rouge is a "loyalty benefit", the enhanced bonuses and birthday chips are "promotions".

I have always interpreted this as Club Rouge itself being for life (as in the life of the player's account, provided it is being used regularly), and that it's the individual Club Rouge bonuses that might be removed, hence a Club Rouge player might no longer be eligible for the enhanced Dish of the Day, the birthday bonus, etc in the same way that a player might reach Gold status, but might also be "bonus banned" because of their playing style in reaching said status.

Since Club Rouge was never intended to be "about the bonuses", this was a logical view.

32Red have actually been rather clever in offering the OP what is, in effect, bonus banned Club Rouge for life. By insisting that this isn't acceptable unless the bonuses and 100% weightings are retained, the OP has fallen right into the trap of demonstrating that for him at least, it's ALL about the bonuses.

When reading this thread, this is EXACTLY my thoughts re. Club Rouge being a life time status vs. a promotion. Promotions as I have interpreted it means 25/ 50/ 100% match, not an achievement one has reached, based on their long term loyalty and play!
 

Nifty29

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Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I agree with VWM on one point (he says as everyone takes a screenie for posterity :D ). If you don't like what a business is offering then MOVE ON. Jumping up and down like someone just rubbed Dencorub on one's cornhole is a total waste of time.....and , in this case, forum space.

We need to be mindful that club rouge is NOT based on play. In fact, it's not based on anything in particular insofar as players are concerned. I'm sure management have their own formulae to which we are not privy, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't do/not do anything to be awarded CR status. I imagine it's that way to give the casino absolute discretion, and all they are doing here is exercising that discretion.
 
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