32Red $20k Tourney

[Nifty29]

Hey guys

I really hate to say something negative about 32Red as they are my favorite place to play, but I must express my disappointment about the $20k tourney they are running to celebrate their CM Awards, which were well-deserved BTW.

It's great that the entry is free. No complaints about that part.

My problem is that there is 999 continues.

What this essentially means is that high rollers or those with huge bankrolls can just basically 'buy' the top prizes. In other words, the members here like myself who support 32Red consistently, but don't have big wallets, have zero chance. I'm sure someone could do the math, but I reckon the chances of winning on one entry only would be very close to none.

The other issue is that all prizes except the top prize are in bonus money with a 30xWR. I believe, and have always believed, that if real money is being used to enter then the prizes should also be real money - but thats just my opinion. I can almost guarantee that nobody who hasn't spent at least some real money on continues will win a prize anyway, so the argument of having bonus money as prizes because it is a free tourney doesn't wash IMO.

I know that many other casinos run their tourneys like this, but I just thought that 32Red would place themselves above the pack as they usually do when it comes to these events. Maybe I have been too spoilt.....maybe I expect too much.

A better way to run these things would be to have 2 tourneys - one with a smaller prize pool e.g. $5k and the other with the $15k. The smaller one could be a 'one shot' tourney with all prizes as bonuses...I don't see anyone having a problem with that. The larger one could have slightly higher continue costs/rebuys - let's face it, someone who it happy to continue 20 times @$10 is hardly going to baulk at $12 or even $15. The extra would go to cover any cost created by the smaller tourney.

At least this way, everyone gets a real chance to win.

The way it is at present, it isn't even worth playing the free entry.

Sorry Pat & Co, but I hope you accept the criticism as constructive and not a sleight against your operation.

I just hope you can find a way to accommodate the 'low rollers' too, as we are all supporting your business too and I'm sure others, like me, are continually disappointed by these big tourneys that give us no chance to win a big prize.

 

[chuchu59]

i believe it should be 5 continues at the most to give most players to have a shot at the top prizes. i played at a weekender 20k tourney 2 years ago with 5 continues and was placed 75th i think. at least i could afford the continues at 25 each. as for the 30x wr i think its ridiculous. maybe 2x is more acceptable especially since u pay hard cash for the continues/rebuys.

 

[1366613]

What this essentially means is that high rollers or those with huge bankrolls can just basically 'buy' the top prizes. In other words, the members here like myself who support 32Red consistently, but don't have big wallets, have zero chance. I'm sure someone could do the math, but I reckon the chances of winning on one entry only would be very close to none.

I really hate when there are 999 continue on this tourneys. I like daily freeroll $250 that has 5 continue.

 

[De Beuker]

Hey guys


A better way to run these things would be to have 2 tourneys - one with a smaller prize pool e.g. $5k and the other with the $15k. The smaller one could be a 'one shot' tourney with all prizes as bonuses...I don't see anyone having a problem with that. The larger one could have slightly higher continue costs/rebuys - let's face it, someone who it happy to continue 20 times @$10 is hardly going to baulk at $12 or even $15. The extra would go to cover any cost created by the smaller tourney.

At least this way, everyone gets a real chance to win.

The way it is at present, it isn't even worth playing the free entry.

Sorry Pat & Co, but I hope you accept the criticism as constructive and not a sleight against your operation.

I just hope you can find a way to accommodate the 'low rollers' too, as we are all supporting your business too and I'm sure others, like me, are continually disappointed by these big tourneys that give us no chance to win a big prize.

There actually are 2 tourneys, one is exclusively for CM members and has no continues or rebuys available.
Check here:
Link Outdated / Removed

Unfortunately I did awful, despite freespins on the second spin that retriggered immediately.

I agree with you on the other tourney, not a chance unless you have a HUGE bankroll and loads of sparetime.
Unfortunately thats how almost all MG freerolls are set up nowadays.

 

[Jufo]

I agree with the OP that if 32Red wishes to celebrate the Casinomeister award they could offer players something with at least some value. 32Red has previously run nice slot tournaments with only 5 continues and zero re-buys, and these were at least worth playing for.

The best course of action for players would be just to stop playing those tournaments with unlimited continues. If the casino finally sees that such tournaments are not attractive, they might change the rules for the better.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for the feedback.

This tournament is just the start of many celebrations we have planned. I recognise that tournaments without rebuys or add-ons are preferred, hence, as De Beuker kindly pointed out, there is a CM exclusive without these options. It wouldn't be feasible to offer these for the whole base as it would attract a huge number of freeloaders.

One thing I will point out, the last time we did a similar tournament, the winner won a cash prize by investing less than 1/3 of the prize value. I guess that's because some players share the same opinion and don't rebuy - making it easy for some to 'buy' the top prize for great value.

It may sound unfair, but my personal opinion is by offering add-ons it allows the prizes to go to loyal players who make a deposit and invest in some rebuys. There would probably be 20x the number of players if we didn't have this option making the odds even bigger.

Good luck with the CM tourney guys and keep your eyes peeled for more offers coming soon.

Mark

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for the feedback.

This tournament is just the start of many celebrations we have planned. I recognise that tournaments without rebuys or add-ons are preferred, hence, as De Beuker kindly pointed out, there is a CM exclusive without these options. It wouldn't be feasible to offer these for the whole base as it would attract a huge number of freeloaders.

One thing I will point out, the last time we did a similar tournament, the winner won a cash prize by investing less than 1/3 of the prize value. I guess that's because some players share the same opinion and don't rebuy - making it easy for some to 'buy' the top prize for great value.

It may sound unfair, but my personal opinion is by offering add-ons it allows the prizes to go to loyal players who make a deposit and invest in some rebuys. There would probably be 20x the number of players if we didn't have this option making the odds even bigger.

Good luck with the CM tourney guys and keep your eyes peeled for more offers coming soon.

Mark

999 isn't "some rebuys", it's a DAY JOB!

This will NOT just deter the freeloaders, but many players who WOULD be willing to invest in "some rebuys", but NOT if it was easy for high rollers to swamp their investment by using as many of the 999 continues from ONE rebuy as it took, which would also take a CONSIDERABLE amount of time.

Thunderstruck is also the WORST game on offer, it takes "forever" to play, and is like watching paint dry, or grass grow. When you are playing in a tournement, you want FAST play, to rivet your attention and raise the excitement levels. The MGS tournaments FAIL in this respect, since they are heavily "crippled" versions of the games, and are 10 times SLOWER than the SAME game when played for real money in the casino.

999 continues is a mechanical exercise, the ONLY "excitement" being the relief when it's over, and you have scooped the top prize - which is easy to do with plenty of time, and a big enough bankroll.

 

[Jufo]

999 isn't "some rebuys", it's a DAY JOB!

This will NOT just deter the freeloaders, but many players who WOULD be willing to invest in "some rebuys", but NOT if it was easy for high rollers to swamp their investment by using as many of the 999 continues from ONE rebuy as it took, which would also take a CONSIDERABLE amount of time.

Thunderstruck is also the WORST game on offer, it takes "forever" to play, and is like watching paint dry, or grass grow. When you are playing in a tournement, you want FAST play, to rivet your attention and raise the excitement levels. The MGS tournaments FAIL in this respect, since they are heavily "crippled" versions of the games, and are 10 times SLOWER than the SAME game when played for real money in the casino.

999 continues is a mechanical exercise, the ONLY "excitement" being the relief when it's over, and you have scooped the top prize - which is easy to do with plenty of time, and a big enough bankroll.

The 32Red tournament is not 999 re-buys but 999 continues which is even worse. Ladbrokes recently run a 25K Slot tournament with 999 re-buys and zero continues and that tournament was actually somewhat interesting as each re-buy cost only €2. I calculated that if I bought 50 re-buys (total cost: €100) my expected win would be slightly more than €100.

999 continues takes all the spirit from the tournament. I doubt that the player who buys himself to the top is very excited about the tournament anymore after purchasing 108th continue, so like VWM said it becomes just a mechanical exercise and completely destroys the original spirit, which is a chance to win something with a modest purchase.

5 continues or 5 re-buys max can make a decent tournament. The 20K Loaded Weekender was run with such rules but even it doesn't exist anymore and was replaced with something crappier

 

[vinylweatherman]

The 32Red tournament is not 999 re-buys but 999 continues which is even worse. Ladbrokes recently run a 25K Slot tournament with 999 re-buys and zero continues and that tournament was actually somewhat interesting as each re-buy cost only €2. I calculated that if I bought 50 re-buys (total cost: €100) my expected win would be slightly more than €100.

999 continues takes all the spirit from the tournament. I doubt that the player who buys himself to the top is very excited about the tournament anymore after purchasing 108th continue, so like VWM said it becomes just a mechanical exercise and completely destroys the original spirit, which is a chance to win something with a modest purchase.

5 continues or 5 re-buys max can make a decent tournament. The 20K Loaded Weekender was run with such rules but even it doesn't exist anymore and was replaced with something crappier

I just played my free starter round on both. It IS 999 continues as you say. This is WORSE because it makes it even EASIER for someone just to buy their way to the top.

Worse, each continue is $10, and immediate deterrent to most players who have already figured out that the availability of 999 continues makes this very much a "high rollers" event.

Just ONE SINGLE PLAYER using all 999 continues would contribute $9990 to the pool, yet they would ONLY win $5000. This might allow an INCREASE in available tactical play, as a player is unlikely to blindly wade in with the intention of doing all 999 continues, but would probably monitor the scores and continue in bursts.

$5000 would buy 500 continues, so if it takes any less to make it to the top, this is +EV provided one is the ONLY player prepared to go "all in".

Each session is 15 minutes, so 100 continues could take 1500 minutes, or 25 HOURS SOLID of WATCHING PAINT DRY. It seems the tournament is not long enough for any player to actually USE all 999 continues, and if you DO have a day job, forget it.

The other problem is that the coins allocated do NOT result in a run down to zero at max bet, and thus you are BLOCKED from simply buying an early continue unless you take "certain actions" that allow you to bypass the need to wait out the rest of the 15 minutes in order to gain access to the continue option.

It is certainly possible to guarantee first place with the correct tactics........




ALLOW ME TO DEMONSTRATE

 

[Jufo]

What if more than one player decides to play to the top? They would end up in a never-ending contest between them, both having to spend 9990$ for one 5000$ prize Just a warning for you VWM if you decide to go for it

 

[vinylweatherman]

What if more than one player decides to play to the top? They would end up in a never-ending contest between them, both having to spend 9990$ for one 5000$ prize Just a warning for you VWM if you decide to go for it

Just a warning for anyone who TRIES

Remember "Mastermind" on UK TV (if not, look it up). His catchphrase was "I've started, so I'll finish".

It is mathematically IMPOSSIBLE to play all 999 continues, unless one is on speed, and has no sleep for the next 9 days.

It is NOT about going "all in" from the start, but some clever tactics, including some PSYCHOLOGICAL tactics, as well as the slot play.

 

[De Beuker]

It is certainly possible to guarantee first place with the correct tactics........




ALLOW ME TO DEMONSTRATE

I KNEW IT!!

But beware, if you end up in 2nd place you got 60K of wagering on your prize..

Btw, in order to zero-out you can reduce the number of coins/winlines, but ofcourse it utterly sucks if you hit freespins on one of those last low bets.

 

[steveyboy]

i had the same problem on there world cup of slots in july 2010 i had some good wins on freeplay so i started to buy in at $25 a go cannot remember how many times but it was a lot ended up second won $1500 so then i started to play my usual games had some good wins including a j/pot,when i cashed out it was rejected because i had not played thruogh 30x i tried but lost it all without getting anywhere near playthrough.posted compaint on forum bonus issues in july,heard from 32red rep pat who said he would look into it and see about the 30x playthrough on buyins,ge also gave me some chips with no playthrough attatched,since then i never buy in,the 30x is to excessive i like to gamble but not at them odds.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I KNEW IT!!

But beware, if you end up in 2nd place you got 60K of wagering on your prize..
Btw, in order to zero-out you can reduce the number of coins/winlines, but ofcourse it utterly sucks if you hit freespins on one of those last low bets.

... which just means anybody else better forget about winning the February Slotsmeister

 

[vinylweatherman]

I hope one appreciates that this is a THUNDERSTRUCK tournament

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

nice! i wanna see them as big screens

 

[Deeplay]

I hope one appreciates that this is a THUNDERSTRUCK tournament

Ouch im going blind - big screens would be good

 

[AudiManinBoro]

I hate to say this but in this area RTG really shows up MG with their tournaments.

 

[De Beuker]

Looks like someone hit a knockout score.
19Kengi - 245.425

Thats gonna be a tough one to beat, even with 999 continues, lol.

 

[Nifty29]

Looks like someone hit a knockout score.
19Kengi - 245.425

Thats gonna be a tough one to beat, even with 999 continues, lol.

*OUCH*

 

[vinylweatherman]

Looks like someone hit a knockout score.
19Kengi - 245.425

Thats gonna be a tough one to beat, even with 999 continues, lol.

Leading a long distance race is NOT usually a good tactic

The eventual winner of a marathon is NOT usually the front runner, or "pacemaker", but someone "in the pack" behind.

The problem is that the one in front has expended more energy (in this case, continues), and is "showing his hand" early on.

He is also rather nervous from looking at the scoreboard, and seems to get restless when the between him & the pack falls close to 100,000. The aim is to win, but to do so IN PROFIT. This means using fewer than 500 continues. The best way to do this is NOT by leading from the front, but by taking a position in the following pack, and waiting for the right moment(s). The closer to the end we get, the fewer continues that CAN be played by ANY competitor.

100 continues gives 150,000 coins so he is still in profit so long as no-one decides to give chase. If he goes TOO far ahead, it might be a better tactic to go for SECOND place and the $2500 bonus. Depending on what happens close to the end, there is even an argument for going for the front to minimise the loss, even if this requires going over the 500 continue break-even point.

I don't believe for one minute that 19Kengi has a prayer - far too nervous

 

[Jufo]

Leading a long distance race is NOT usually a good tactic

The eventual winner of a marathon is NOT usually the front runner, or "pacemaker", but someone "in the pack" behind.

The problem is that the one in front has expended more energy (in this case, continues), and is "showing his hand" early on.

He is also rather nervous from looking at the scoreboard, and seems to get restless when the between him & the pack falls close to 100,000. The aim is to win, but to do so IN PROFIT. This means using fewer than 500 continues. The best way to do this is NOT by leading from the front, but by taking a position in the following pack, and waiting for the right moment(s). The closer to the end we get, the fewer continues that CAN be played by ANY competitor.

100 continues gives 150,000 coins so he is still in profit so long as no-one decides to give chase. If he goes TOO far ahead, it might be a better tactic to go for SECOND place and the $2500 bonus. Depending on what happens close to the end, there is even an argument for going for the front to minimise the loss, even if this requires going over the 500 continue break-even point.

I don't believe for one minute that 19Kengi has a prayer - far too nervous

Hilarious! Like you are anchoring a sports event. By the way since these days multiple aliases are allowed, how do we know that 19Kengi is not actually a second nick of vinylweatherman.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hilarious! Like you are anchoring a sports event. By the way since these days multiple aliases are allowed, how do we know that 19Kengi is not actually a second nick of vinylweatherman.

You don't

I am not sure whether this is allowed for this tournament, although if there is nothing against it in the terms, it is highly unlikely 32Red would penalise players for having a second go in a different one of their casinos.

There ARE rules against having duplicate 32Red accounts in the same household just to have multiple entries in a tournament, and the penalty is no refund of the rebuys or continues, and this is aimed at "abuse" of the freeroll tournaments.

So, before firing up Dash and using another ailas to come both first and second, I would have checked with Mark beforehand, as might others.


EDIT:

Bbrrrrrrr - got really cold all of a sudden, what's up

 

[vinylweatherman]

I put the heating on, so warmer now, BUT what's with the constant disconnects all of a sudden. I just had 3 in 2 sessions, and the last time I could not even log into the casino.

Fortunately this is only Saturday, but if this happens on Monday, it could seriously damage my chances to improve my position.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Looks like someone hit a knockout score.
19Kengi - 245.425

Thats gonna be a tough one to beat, even with 999 continues, lol.

*OUCH*

......said 19Kengi as he logged on after dinner one Monday evening at the end of January 2011