32Rant. This is a "I'm done with Microgaming rant."

[griffon51]

Work it out....

Hi guys n gals....seasons greetings to one and all.

To make it clear..I dont play slots and similar I play live roulette.I do however read a lot of the stuff you guys talk about what goes on with the games you play,all the talk about RTP variance etc leaves me a bit confused at times because it seems to me you all are prepared to risk your hard earned playing games where you are fully aware that the odds are heavily stacked against you from the start.
I keep reading that these games are played for fun,really, dont sound much like fun to me.It would seem to me that before depositing and playing that you must already be resigned to the fact that you are going to lose and time and again, and that would be right because thats how these games are built right. As an individual punter you dont have much of a chance to come out ahead and stay in front because they will get you in the end or even sooner than that.
If someone were to start a thread,Winners Only, how long would it last,how many subscribers would it have.Contrast that to a thread,Losers Only and we would be here forever.Losing is tough and it lasts a long time but we keep coming back for more becase its fun right.
I watched a good film the other day whilst smoking good cigars lit with £20 notes and drinking 20 year old Islay single malt out of Waterford Crystal tumblers that I smashed in the fire place to save washing up....lol, just as pointless, but my argument would be , more fun than the most of what is to be read here mostly.
IMO to cap this off, if you really want to make a lasting gesture that would beat the casinos.Simply stop gambling as a collective, someone else could arrange that,meanwhile I am off to have some more "fun" at roulette.

Good luck in all your future endeavors...You are going to need it.....Grif

 

[Tirilej]

Thanks for that post griffon51. It was a sum of my thoughts as well.

In fact, I can rarily even see the reason for starting a thread like this.
What is the purpose with it? What will it achieve?

People recognize the losing feeling and agree that it sucks to lose, I understand that, but what are you expecting?
More playtime. Playtime sometimes. Always playtime.
We all want that and we all want to win all the time, but we can't and you know that too.

Some people believe they are getting monitored when they visit the casinos. Someone are watching and pulling a switch preventing them from winning or just to make them start losing.
Would you want them to monitor especially you to make sure you will get some playtime and not going on a rantingspree?
I'm sure they would do that if they only could.

So what is the reason for this threads complaint really and what is it that you want to have changed? What is the purpose?

 

[skiny]

I think those questions will be different for USA players, some casinos we have to get up to $350 just to cashout.

When I had Quicktender I cashed out a lot, because I knew the money would be there the next morning, no waiting for it to process, no waiting for checks/wires/etc...back then my "good enough profit" is totally different now.

But I'll give it a shot

I deposit anywhere from $50-$100 a few times a week. Now here is where it gets tricky, at one casino I HAVE to make it to $350, another casino it's just $100. So, take away the first casino. If I deposit $50 and get my balance up to around $300 I will think about a cashout. But again, USA players don't have the luxury of receiving our funds the next day, or even hours like you all do. So sometimes I will say screw it and hope to get my balance higher. And to be extremely honest, I reverse a lot.

The games I normally play are...

t-rex
texan tycoon
tigers treasure
warlocks spell
sunkin treasure
paradise dreams

I am starting to like...

raindance
paydirt
some other one I can't think of...there is a weird symbol that has x2 on it in regular play

and I also play video poker 3 hands, sometimes 5cent, but mostly 1cent.

I think Warlock's Spell is underrated. I usually do ok with that game but then I rarely play it. Maybe I should start at the end of the list and work my way up when I'm picking which game to play.

Thanks for that post griffon51. It was a sum of my thoughts as well.

In fact, I can rarily even see the reason for starting a thread like this.
What is the purpose with it? What will it achieve?

People recognize the losing feeling and agree that it sucks to lose, I understand that, but what are you expecting?
More playtime. Playtime sometimes. Always playtime.
We all want that and we all want to win all the time, but we can't and you know that too.

Some people believe they are getting monitored when they visit the casinos. Someone are watching and pulling a switch preventing them from winning or just to make them start losing.
Would you want them to monitor especially you to make sure you will get some playtime and not going on a rantingspree?
I'm sure they would do that if they only could.

So what is the reason for this threads complaint really and what is it that you want to have changed? What is the purpose?

Conversation doesn't require a purpose. If you're limiting new threads to threads that have a specific purpose you're going to see a whole lot less conversations.

Maybe you want to remove the entire complaints category?

 

[Tirilej]

Conversation doesn't require a purpose. If you're limiting new threads to threads that have a specific purpose you're going to see a whole lot less conversations.

Maybe you want to remove the entire complaints category?

No, I just wondered what your purpose was, and if you were trying to achieve something.
Nothing else, and your reply gave me the answer so thanks for that

 

[just play]

I think Warlock's Spell is underrated. I usually do ok with that game but then I rarely play it. Maybe I should start at the end of the list and work my way up when I'm picking which game to play.

Yes it is...playtime and hits can be quite good on that game. But like you said maybe I should switch and play from end to top, as I always start with the "high variance" games. haha. Lately I have found Raindance has kept me playing for quite a while, last night I never got free spins but played for a long time on that game alone, and I used to hate it. Most of my money is played on t-rex, I have a love/hate relationship with that game.

Oh wait, you mean the list of games in the casino? bwahahaha...I thought you meant my list.

 

[skiny]

Yes it is...playtime and hits can be quite good on that game. But like you said maybe I should switch and play from end to top, as I always start with the "high variance" games. haha. Lately I have found Raindance has kept me playing for quite a while, last night I never got free spins but played for a long time on that game alone, and I used to hate it. Most of my money is played on t-rex, I have a love/hate relationship with that game.

Oh wait, you mean the list of games in the casino? bwahahaha...I thought you meant my list.

The list of games in the casino.

Mermaid Queen is good if you can get lots of extra spins in the bonus round.

Somewhere along the line, did they reduce the amount of symbols that give extra free spins in Enchanted Garden? It seems to me that game used to have a lot more extra free spins.

Some of my biggest hits came from the bonus features in Paydirt and T-Rex.

 

[aceking123]

The list of games in the casino.

Mermaid Queen is good if you can get lots of extra spins in the bonus round.

Somewhere along the line, did they reduce the amount of symbols that give extra free spins in Enchanted Garden? It seems to me that game used to have a lot more extra free spins.

Some of my biggest hits came from the bonus features in Paydirt and T-Rex.

skiny your biggest hits may well of come from paydirt & t rex but you kinda got to think how much youve played through them before hand . my rtg play is limited as i do not fully trust there software but those machines can kill you realy quickly doesnt seem to matter what stake either , i think your point to thread you made was more about how many deposits youve made & just how very poor your gaming time has been , simple conclusion back away from it for a while return when youve got a clear head , if that doesnt work well you know the rest ) the above doesnt seem to trigger so often ( enchanted garden ) but the clone to it does pretty much the same thing ( machine with red letter & face ) & has done for a while i think.

 

[just play]

The list of games in the casino.

Mermaid Queen is good if you can get lots of extra spins in the bonus round.

Somewhere along the line, did they reduce the amount of symbols that give extra free spins in Enchanted Garden? It seems to me that game used to have a lot more extra free spins.

Some of my biggest hits came from the bonus features in Paydirt and T-Rex.

Don't roll your eyes at me buster, I'll have to send you...nevermind

My hits on T-Rex used to be HUGE, no so much lately.

I don't play Enchanted Garden, don't like it, so I have no idea.

 

[skiny]

Don't roll your eyes at me buster, I'll have to send you...nevermind

My hits on T-Rex used to be HUGE, no so much lately.

I don't play Enchanted Garden, don't like it, so I have no idea.

Well, I'll be back to playing RTG now since I no longer have a Microgaming account. I've won way more money with that software than I ever have with Microgaming anyway. The only reason I keep trying with Microgaming is because I can get paid a lot quicker if I win than I can with RTG. But if it takes 2 years to get a dollar over my starting balance I'm not exactly getting paid very quickly anyway.

I can probably count on one hand in the last 7 years the amount of times that I've had a balance over a hundred bucks with Microgaming. Taking a balance from 50 to 100 shouldn't be nearly impossible but if it's going to cost 100x my wager to get bonus features that pay 5x my wager it will always be impossible.

RTG casinos get tight some times but they don't stay that way forever. They might take longer to pay but at least there's a chance they might have to.

It doesn't matter now, my account is closed. All they had to do is make it look like I might win something and they couldn't even do that.

I've made way more deposits at Microgaming casinos than all other casinos combined with the same size deposits and the same size wagers and the same withdrawal expectations and my withdrawals from all Microgaming casinos combined are a drop in the bucket to what I've taken out of most of the other brands on their own.

People who are complaining because they can't play Microgaming casinos are probably better off anyway.

 

[LaHutti]

Well, I'll be back to playing RTG now since I no longer have a Microgaming account. I've won way more money with that software than I ever have with Microgaming anyway. The only reason I keep trying with Microgaming is because I can get paid a lot quicker if I win than I can with RTG. But if it takes 2 years to get a dollar over my starting balance I'm not exactly getting paid very quickly anyway.

I can probably count on one hand in the last 7 years the amount of times that I've had a balance over a hundred bucks with Microgaming. Taking a balance from 50 to 100 shouldn't be nearly impossible but if it's going to cost 100x my wager to get bonus features that pay 5x my wager it will always be impossible.

RTG casinos get tight some times but they don't stay that way forever. They might take longer to pay but at least there's a chance they might have to.

It doesn't matter now, my account is closed. All they had to do is make it look like I might win something and they couldn't even do that.
I've made way more deposits at Microgaming casinos than all other casinos combined with the same size deposits and the same size wagers and the same withdrawal expectations and my withdrawals from all Microgaming casinos combined are a drop in the bucket to what I've taken out of most of the other brands on their own.

People who are complaining because they can't play Microgaming casinos are probably better off anyway.

How do you suggest they do that ?
People who don't gamble at ALL are better off, regardless of software, mate

 

[skiny]

How do you suggest they do that ?

That was sarcasm.

 

[Jasminebed]

Christmas for me is just the one day out of the year Tim Hortons is closed. If anyone owes me an apology it's them.

Surely not all the Tim Hortons!!! Even my small city offers some open.

I put a pot on this morning, and for once I'm not in my pajamas since my dear son-in-law had a liberal pour in the eggnog, and I slept in my clothes!

My year at 32Red has been pretty good, and last year, and the year before I believe. I do a lot of low rolling, but I push it when up from time to time. Or push it when almost busted and get a save.

I see you have closed your account now, but for others that want a lot of playtime for a small deposit with a chance of a big payout, I'd suggest the fruities. Give them some goes in freeplay, learn one or two at a time, and even when you lose, at a dime a spin, bonus features will come up and the interactive nature of them is slow compared to straight slot spinning.

I know I've only twice hit 1000x bet at MG on anything but a fruitie.

And even with this year's Random, my RTG experience has not been as positive as yours skiny.

 

[dionysus]

you must live in a rare city; our Timmy's have always been closed Xmas day...sucks

 

[Jasminebed]

you must live in a rare city; our Timmy's have always been closed Xmas day...sucks

The one closest to me was one of the first to open... I think it's still a franchise, not part of a chain.

 

[Jasminebed]

Update

Well, I knew it was a good year, but I checked with support to see just how good. I've made a lot of withdrawals that let me deposit again, and a one really spectacular one on Dark Knight way outside my usual bet size:

Since January 1st 2012 you've deposited 21,534. Withdrawn 23,770 and had 12,475 in bonus chips

So without that singular hit, I'd be down around 800, not bad for all that play. I tend to stay away from the high variance slots, and am usually happiest with hitting on those with more frequent if lower bonus rounds.

 

[mrmark21]

I'd suggest the fruities. Give them some goes in freeplay, learn one or two at a time, and even when you lose, at a dime a spin, bonus features will come up and the interactive nature of them is slow compared to straight slot spinning.

I know I've only twice hit 1000x bet at MG on anything but a fruitie.

I've been playing/depositing a fair bit at Go Wild over the last couple of days and have gotten some great hits on machines with less than twenty lines. I'd normally steer clear of games with only 9-15 lines but they have surprisingly given me allot of play. Soon I'll only be playing the fruities as well

 

[KasinoKing]

To make it clear..I dont play slots and similar I play live roulette.I do however read a lot of the stuff you guys talk about what goes on with the games you play,all the talk about RTP variance etc leaves me a bit confused at times because it seems to me you all are prepared to risk your hard earned playing games where you are fully aware that the odds are heavily stacked against you from the start.

Each to their own, but...
With ALL casino games the odds are stacked against you, and the lower the variance the better those odds are for the casino.
e.g. Blackjack has a very low HE, but also extremely low variance.

Roulette (single zero) has an RTP of 97.3% and your absolute maximum win is Total Bet x 35
(If betting on ONE number only - if you spread your chips around, your max win is proportionally lower)

With most slots the RTP is only slightly lower at 95 - 97%, but your maximum possible win is MUCH higher.
Obviously the chances of getting the jackpot are 1000s of times worse than Roulette - that's what variance means - but there is a much better chance of a series smaller wins to keep you afloat while you pray for the "biggie"

So what I'm saying is the difference in RTP between Roulette and slots is only very minimal, but the difference in variance is much bigger and it's that which appeals to most gamblers.
IMO variance is the only thing which lets players beat the casino, because if all games always played exactly to their T-RTP, all players would always lose.

IMO to cap this off, if you really want to make a lasting gesture that would beat the casinos. Simply stop gambling as a collective, someone else could arrange that, meanwhile I am off to have some more "fun" at roulette.

Good luck in all your future endeavors...You are going to need it.....Grif

Good luck to you too!
KK

 

[griffon51]

thankyou KK...

....for the brief summation on RTP etc.

I feel I may have confused you with my confusion.The point I was trying to make was ,I am confused why players trust there wagering to stats such as the RTP and if you like the varience.
If I could find any game that returned 95% to me I would play it to exclusion,but my overview is that all wagering is 50/50,you win or you dont. Therefor it would seem a folly to me that a player would seek out or even expect a high RTP (as in the case of OP)and get all screwy about the whole thing when no such event occurs.Further, at which 2 points in the game are the stats drawn from.In my own experience limited as it is to roulette, I have begun and ended a session with 10 wins for 100% and at others the exact opposite for -100%.Would it be then that the stat is reference only to the spin in hand,and each spin has the same RTP and is not positively accumaltive wheres the negative 5% is,As you play it gradually walks you backward toward O balance.
In live dealer online roulette where there are several players at the table and we are all trying for a winner am I at a better advantage than if I played a slot where you have a lone chance at hitting a win.
Not that I am saying I play systems or stategies exclusively but I am able to watch what is going on and try to play accordingly.
As you say though each to their own and so it is, I guess I just get a bit dismayed with players who undoubtedly have had a bad time as in this OP and need to Rant.That has to be ok though,it is an open plan society with freedom to express ones self,right.

AS always good luck to all ...Grif

 

[pumacat]

Microgaming take note - people are starting to notice.

 

[Dipity]

... people who post "I don't get to withdraw often enough" (about ANY software);
Most of you say how much you deposit, but please could also include in your posts which games you play and what your actual cash-out target is?

Obviously the house edge is always against all of us, so the only time we can cash-out is when luck throws us a big bone. But even then, we will all go on to lose it all back unless we have a set cut-off point when we say "that's a good enough profit for me!" and hit the cash-out button.
The games also have an influence on what you are likely to experience: High variance usually = short playtime & vice versa.

Thanks in advance,
KK

I'm a huge culprit of this, and I'm sure many others are - I never cash out when I can, I look for the bigger hit. If I had more disipline, I'd cash out at 2-4x my deposit, but I always want more - thats the nature of what we do.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'm a huge culprit of this, and I'm sure many others are - I never cash out when I can, I look for the bigger hit. If I had more disipline, I'd cash out at 2-4x my deposit, but I always want more - thats the nature of what we do.

This is one of the best reasons to play with a bonus IMO, as meeting the WR gives a nice natural finish point.

That said I don't have a problem withdrawing when playing on straight deposits most of the time, double my deposit or just getting my money back if I've had a decent session is good enough for me.

 

[ChillBill]

If I am correct, MGS RTP is set in stone. Over a given period of time (whatever that is), a slot will go through hot streaks and cold streaks but it will at the end of this time period produce whatever RTP it is set to deliver.

New games are released by MG every month or so. The latest, Battlestar Galactica. I'm sure a lot of punters are playing this game. I'm sure a lot of players play the new games when they're released. Since BG was released lots of people are playing the same game. I've played BG too and have had some very good play time over a few sessions. A few nice wins, enough to keep me going for a while, then some.

When I stop and switch games, high variance or low variance it makes no difference, I notice things go back to being very streaky.

I read threads here saying MGS used to pay better a few years ago. And others say the slots used to pay really well before the USA got banned. Since then MGS have stopped accepting bets from other countries too. That adds up to a lot of people who are no longer playing MGS slots.

A lot less people are playing MGS slots but MGS are releasing more and more slots.

Doesn't it stand to reason, less people playing each slot means they become more streaky. I refer back to my observation with Battlestar Galactica. And also say, reading through threads here about past MGS new slot releases, it seems people have a really good run on them when they are first released.

I think the reason the new slots are less streaky is because more people are playing them and lessens the extended cold sessions compared to other (non new release) MGS slots which are only being played by a few.

Not the ideal explanation but hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from.

 

[Nifty29]

Microgaming take note - people are starting to notice.

You know, players have been saying this pretty much since I joined in 2001.

Same with RTG etc.

So, based on a 5% reduction in TRTP (which it would have to be for players to notice without keeping detailed records) per year, and assuming that the original TRTP was 95% as advertised, the current TRTP for MGS casinos is around 35%.

No wonder they can afford to make new games all the time!

Seriously guys......come on.

IMO it is the variance of the more recent games (<5 years) that has affected play. Years ago, a 500xbet hit was a giant win.....now its pretty good, but 1000xbet+ is the new giant win. Something at the lower end has to give to pay for the upper end......it means less play time, more dead spins, more shitty bonus rounds etc.

 

[skiny]

You know, players have been saying this pretty much since I joined in 2001.

Same with RTG etc.

So, based on a 5% reduction in TRTP (which it would have to be for players to notice without keeping detailed records) per year, and assuming that the original TRTP was 95% as advertised, the current TRTP for MGS casinos is around 35%.

No wonder they can afford to make new games all the time!

Seriously guys......come on.

IMO it is the variance of the more recent games (<5 years) that has affected play. Years ago, a 500xbet hit was a giant win.....now its pretty good, but 1000xbet+ is the new giant win. Something at the lower end has to give to pay for the upper end......it means less play time, more dead spins, more shitty bonus rounds etc.

I agree with the increased variance in the new games but I don't really play the new games much. Specially the 243 ways to lose crap.

But then I don't think it's really been getting progressively worse either. For me it's been bad since I started. Like I said, I've made more deposits with Microgaming than all the rest of the softwares combined with less withdrawals than any of the rest on their own and I don't chalk it up to play style because I make the same deposit sizes, wager sizes and have the same withdraw expectations no matter where I play.

I've come to the conclusion from my experience that Microgaming is just not designed for low rolling.

 

[ChillBill]

I've come to the conclusion from my experience that Microgaming is just not designed for low rolling.

MGS slots are streaky and a player can experience extended periods of little to no wins. But on the times I've had to low roll, I've not seen anything different in game play to when I high roll.

For example had $30 in loyalty at 32red the other day, converted it and at one point I was down to $7 from playing 45 cents a spin on break da bank again. Got a few little wins but nothing spectacular. To get a few extra spins I dropped to 18 cents. Finally the free spins hit and that pushed me up to $138. Upped bet to $1.80 and went cold again and I mean, no wins at all. Dropped to around $35 and reduced bet to 45 cents, the free spins dropped in at around $19. End of that round my balance was $493. I eventually cashed out at $500.

I've played where over $2,000 was bled dry in under an hour high rolling and the same ice cold results from low rolling on $100. I'm convinced the extended cold streaks are a result of less people playing a given slot. But that's gambling and I accept the risks.

I also think Nifty29 adds another reasonable explanation.

IMO it is the variance of the more recent games (<5 years) that has affected play. Years ago, a 500xbet hit was a giant win.....now its pretty good, but 1000xbet+ is the new giant win. Something at the lower end has to give to pay for the upper end......it means less play time, more dead spins, more shitty bonus rounds etc.

In the case of 32Red I can't imagine a Plc being up to any funny business. Besides, I believe MGS as software is generic across the board.