32 Red Malfunction ?

[Pocketdiggers77]

Similar situation happened here in the states but try going from $42 Million to $2.

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PD

 

[winbig]

Different kind of malfuntion. I will give you an example of what the casinos mean by 'malfuntion." Here in Australia 2 guys were playing a machine in a pub which was 'linked' to either a pub or state-wide random jackpot(can't remember which). The maximum jackpot was around $8000 with a maximum jackpot of $10,000. These guys won the jackpot but it was displayed on their screen as a jackpot of over $1million (which is impossible to win in Australia.) They took photos but as it was a glitch or "malfunction" they never got their million dollars, I do believe they got the $8000 even though technically they should have got nothing as it clearly says on every single machine "Malfunction avoids all pays and plays"

Something similar to this happened in Vegas a couple of years ago. This woman was playing a penny VP machine with a progressive that was supposed to have been ~$835. Well, she hit it and it said she had wom $1M.

In this case, her lawyer is claiming that it's not a malfunction per say, because the progressive software wasn't updated on all of the machines; and therefore, was a human error and not a malfunction of the machine.

Personally, I think she has a strong case against the casino. The machines were doing exactly what they were programmed to do at the time..

I haven't been able to find anything in regards to how this turned out, or if it's still being challenged.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFj_1F6R52s[/ame]



note: I don't think this is a derail, because this is so similar to the OP's case

 

[path]

The OP has given me his OK to post the outcome of the investigations which we concluded and shared with him on 21st December 2009

In these investigations our software providers have analysed the following;

The gaming server result
The result in the database
The screenshot detail that was provided.

What is clear is that the result, recorded on the server and database, is a losing line as the symbol is an eight and not the Secret Heart symbol as shown on the PC and within the screenshot.
The screenshot itself further confuses the issue as you will see that the payline colour for a win on line 2 is displayed in green. Similarly, so should the payline indicator also display in green, which it does not in the screenshot provided.

Again, it has been confirmed that the reel order does not ever allow for the order of symbols on Reel 1 as depicted in the screenshot. According to the maths, the Secret Heart symbol cant appear in that position.
Seven is in the middle position on Reel 1. The only symbol that can be above Seven is Eight and RoseHeart below Seven.

As to what might have caused this highly unusual event remains unknown. If it was a PC error, then I would suggest other reels and symbol positions on those reels would have also been corrupted.

The game itself has performed correctly based on the recorded results, so I stand by our original decision not to pay any winnings based on the display that was able to be captured on the screenshot.

That said we were able to conclude this to the OPs satisfaction, in recognition of the efforts that he had taken in bringing this to our, and fellow CM members, attention and also based on his loyalty to 32Red over the years.

As an operator it is our responsibility to ensure that all aspects of our service (whether it be the games themselves, payment options or our Support) are delivered to our players to the optimum level. We obviously rely on a number of third-parties in delivering this service, but it is our responsibility to ensure that we manage them to achieve the best possible standards of service and performance. When things dont go as planned, in any of these areas, then it is our responsibility to ensure that the players problem is correctly addressed by managing these relationships accordingly. When problems do occur with a players gaming session then we are relentless in our pursuit of the answers from our software providers who are always as keen as we are to get to the bottom of any problem.

Apologies for the time taken in posting this and Ill sign off by wishing you all the best for 2010

Regards
Pat

 

[winbig]

Happy new year to you, too!

Just curious, is MGS writing this off as a fluke, or will they continue investigating this issue to get to the bottom of it?

 

[just play]

As to what might have caused this highly unusual event remains unknown

Just to be clear....the OP did not mess around with the screenshot then?

That said we were able to conclude this to the OPs satisfaction, in recognition of the efforts that he had taken in bringing this to our, and fellow CM members, attention and also based on his loyalty to 32Red over the years.

 

[Nifty29]

Now, this is just my opinion/how I read it based on what Pat posted:

As to what might have caused this highly unusual event remains unknown. If it was a PC error, then I would suggest other reels and symbol positions on those reels would have also been corrupted.

MGS say it almost certainly wasnt a PC error relating to display.

The screenshot itself further confuses the issue as you will see that the payline colour for a win on line 2 is displayed in green. Similarly, so should the payline indicator also display in green, which it does not in the screenshot provided.

MGS says that the payline CANNOT be green without the "2" being green. In other words, the software might be able to display a 'sticky symbol' left over from a previous spin as another has experienced, but it just isnt possible for the line to display green without the number being green.

The game itself has performed correctly based on the recorded results, so I stand by our original decision not to pay any winnings based on the display that was able to be captured on the screenshot.

Pat is confirming the original determination by MGS and 32Red that this was NOT a winning line and that the game did NOT have a malfunction.

That said we were able to conclude this to the OPs satisfaction, in recognition of the efforts that he had taken in bringing this to our, and fellow CM members, attention and also based on his loyalty to 32Red over the years.

(This is MY reading of this and I am not speaking for Pat here)....

The casino could not prove one way or the other whether the screenshot was genuine, and even though there was NO malfunction (important bit that) they are going to compensate the player based on their past play and value alone.

I believe Pat is being very diplomatic here (he is a great manager after all) and I think we can all draw our own conclusions based on the fact that both operator and software provided deny any malfunction of any kind - if there was a problem with the game, it would be pulled immediately and it hasnt been.

The answer, IMO, does nothing to vindicate the OP's claim. Only the OP knows what really happened, so we can have our opinions but we will never know the truth.

 

[just play]

OK, lets leave it to them and CM. If it is discovered I am way off base, you will receive an apology publicly and $50 donated to a charity of your choice.

Aww Damn, you found a loophole.

 

[Nifty29]

Aww Damn, you found a loophole.

Great contribution. Thanks.

 

[just play]

Great contribution. Thanks.

Doesn't anyone ever wonder why there aren't more regular posters? This thread is exactly why.

Joe Blow comes to Casinomeister and is all excited he found a place that interests him. He says hello in his first post and introduces himself as Joe Blow...all of a sudden a few regulars say, "your not Joe Blow" I know Joe Blow and your not him. Joe is upset and doesn't understand what the problem is...a few more posters come in..."prove your Joe Blow" we don't believe you (those posts get 100 "thanks" mind you) Poor Joe never comes back.

I choose to believe people, whereas some people choose not to. Everyone can have their own opinion, but sometimes some people here get to the point of badgering someone for no reason except "they choose not to believe the person"

I have no idea if he indeed did fake the screenshot, for now I choose to believe he didn't.

 

[GrandMaster]

I think we can all draw our own conclusions based on the fact that both operator and software provided deny any malfunction of any kind - if there was a problem with the game, it would be pulled immediately and it hasnt been.

It would not be the 1st time that MG software displayed something different from what was recorded by Playcheck. Have a look at my screenshot at https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/the-viper-bug-strikes-again.6978/. It is guaranteed 100% genuine, I reported it to the casino, they forwarded it to MG, and I never heard back from either. And the game was not pulled.

 

[Nifty29]

Doesn't anyone ever wonder why there aren't more regular posters? This thread is exactly why.

Joe Blow comes to Casinomeister and is all excited he found a place that interests him. He says hello in his first post and introduces himself as Joe Blow...all of a sudden a few regulars say, "your not Joe Blow" I know Joe Blow and your not him. Joe is upset and doesn't understand what the problem is...a few more posters come in..."prove your Joe Blow" we don't believe you (those posts get 100 "thanks" mind you) Poor Joe never comes back.

I choose to believe people, whereas some people choose not to. Everyone can have their own opinion, but sometimes some people here get to the point of badgering someone for no reason except "they choose not to believe the person"

I have no idea if he indeed did fake the screenshot, for now I choose to believe he didn't.

The reason I posted that remark is that the only reason you said "Aww Damn, you found a loophole" was to have a personal dig at me - it had nothing to do with the issue. Ive done nothing to you, except maybe have an opposite point of view, so there was no need to be spiteful and say what you did.

You are not a "Joe Blow", you have been around a long time and been a regular poster.....so the parallel you draw is erroneous. Can you find a post where someone new has posted something genuine or asked for advice and I have gone for the jugular?? Good luck with that.

As for the "Joe Blow" theory....have you ever sat back and seen how many "Joe Blows" "blow" in here claiming X, Y and Z about this casino and that casino and how they have been ripped off??.....and then a few days later we discover they are total scammers and liars and they deliberately omitted details to garner sympathy from the rest of us. I used to be one of the 'the poster is always innocent etc' people but past experience has taught me that if something doesnt smell right then it is off....and something about this situation has an odor.

You will also find that I go out of my way to help posters that are genuine and try to share some of my experience. Im not an expert and I dont know everything, but Ive been around too long to just accept everything at face value.

@GM - I looked at that screenie...seems they threw an extra card in there or something like that which is certainly a display error. The difference between that and the OPs screenie is that 1) the 'win' display is correct i.e. everything that goes along with a winning hand is displayed correctly (except of course the cards) and 2) 32Red and MGS have stated it is not a display error. The presence of that green line without the green number is not possible according to MGS....either they both are or neither of them are....this cannot be explained by any software or display-related means, which only leaves one option. Remember, 32Red has not paid the player based on the screenshot or the investigation, but purely as an acknowledgement of their past custom - this for me is a huge statement. The results of the investigation are very interesting in regards to what they dont say.

 

[GrandMaster]

@GM - I looked at that screenie...seems they threw an extra card in there or something like that which is certainly a display error. The difference between that and the OPs screenie is that 1) the 'win' display is correct i.e. everything that goes along with a winning hand is displayed correctly (except of course the cards) and 2) 32Red and MGS have stated it is not a display error. The presence of that green line without the green number is not possible according to MGS....either they both are or neither of them are....this cannot be explained by any software or display-related means, which only leaves one option. Remember, 32Red has not paid the player based on the screenshot or the investigation, but purely as an acknowledgement of their past custom - this for me is a huge statement. The results of the investigation are very interesting in regards to what they dont say.

Actually, according to Playcheck, that ace was a 7. Once we established that what server records and what's displayed to the player can be different, it is hard to prove that the software can only fail in certain ways and not in others.

 

[Nifty29]

Actually, according to Playcheck, that ace was a 7. Once we established that what server records and what's displayed to the player can be different, it is hard to prove that the software can only fail in certain ways and not in others.

Cool, so one of the cards displayed incorrectly. However, the software behaved in such a manner that it paid according to what the server sent e.g. you made 21. In the OPs case, the software behaved in a manner according to what the server sent (no win at all)....but it seems that it 'half showed' a win on line 2. It seems MGS are saying this cannot happen, I assume because the number 2 and the line are joined as one graphical display. You can test this by resetting the lines and re-adding them - the number does what the line does every time.

In your case it was a display error. In this case, MGS and 32Red say it is not....so there is a difference.

 

[Jasminebed]

Cool, so one of the cards displayed incorrectly. However, the software behaved in such a manner that it paid according to what the server sent e.g. you made 21. In the OPs case, the software behaved in a manner according to what the server sent (no win at all)....but it seems that it 'half showed' a win on line 2. It seems MGS are saying this cannot happen, I assume because the number 2 and the line are joined as one graphical display. You can test this by resetting the lines and re-adding them - the number does what the line does every time.

In your case it was a display error. In this case, MGS and 32Red say it is not....so there is a difference.

MG never admitted there was any mistake in Grandmaster's case.

I'm not sure MG ever admits there is any mistakes or glitches in their software.

 

[wayram]

As I have said previously I will accept the umpires decision. I would like to thank Pat at 32Red publicly for his help and TOTAL SUPPORT trying to sort this problem out. They have no problems with someone like me posting what appeared on my PC as it helps them and MG to sort out any glitches in the system. I would also like to thank the many who supported me with this thread and certainly the ones which believe that the screenshot was genuine. I would like to bag the ones that did not believe me, as I have said many times the screenshot is GENUINE and has not been photoshopped in any way shape or form. As Sureplay says many members here just go for the jugular and want blood and want proof of everything and do turn other posters off. Many of you guys out there have doubted what was posted and virtually called me a liar a cheat and a fraud. Okay I admit there are some out there who will try and flaunt the system, and all you have is my word, I have been a CM member for many years and expected a little more trust from some of you .As I said before I can sleep well at night because I know the truth and it is what I have said all along. As for NIfty29, It is ok for you to shitcan everyone else but as soon as you cop it back from someone else you start crying poor. You have been relentless with this thread trying to get ME to say it was photoshopped and said you would donate $50 to a charity if you were wrong. AS far as I am concerned you were wrong and should donate it to the RSPCA. Put your money where your big mouth is.

 

[Nifty29]

It is obvious from what what GM said and his screenie that the card was incorrectly displayed.....I assume the reason MGS didnt make a statement about it is the fact that the player won and the amount involved (just my view). GM's error was clearly a display error, as the payout was still according to playcheck (the server) and everything else on the screen was normal i.e. it showed a win correctly. In the OPs shot, this is not the case - it shows no win in the 'win box' but part of a winning line is displayed which MGS says isnt possible.

Anyway, as I said before the OP has been compensated based on his own past history with the casino and not anything to do with his screenshot. If the screenie was 100% legit, MGS would certainly have to remove the game to fix it - it is too serious an error to have pieces of wins showing etc like that and everyone that knows Pat would realise if the game was really going haywire like that he wouldnt be having it running at 32Red.

Its the process of elimination - it wasnt a PC error, it wasnt a game malfunction, it wasnt a server error. Pat states that the cause of the issues in that screenshot are unknown. MGS invented the software, they have the code and the programmers, but they dont know what the error is....does everyone really believe that? MGS are saying they cant find an error on their end, so that leaves a PC error (already discounted) and tampering with the screenie.

 

[Nifty29]

As for NIfty29, It is ok for you to shitcan everyone else but as soon as you cop it back from someone else you start crying poor. You have been relentless with this thread trying to get ME to say it was photoshopped and said you would donate $50 to a charity if you were wrong. AS far as I am concerned you were wrong and should donate it to the RSPCA. Put your money where your big mouth is.

No - I said if I am way off base Wayram - and I'm not. Nothing in what Pat posted vindicates you at all, sorry. Pat is still refusing to pay you based on your screenshot - it is there in black and white.

As for sh*tcanning 'everyone else'.....first of all if you call having a passionate opinion about a topic and basing that opinion on facts, then I guess there are a huge amount of sh*tcanners around here. If that is your definition, then I would love to know what you call your post above.

Isnt it wonderful how you just single me out personally for attacks like "big mouth' and 's*itcanner' when Im only part of a popular view...the only reason I can think of is that I was the one who discovered the color discrepency on the win line....seems like a huge co-incidence doesnt it? Unlike others, I didnt come right out and call you a scammer or anything like that...I just opined based on the information available. If you didnt want opinions, then why did you post in the first place? You cant post something and expect everyone is going to agree.

If you are completely right, and Im completely wrong, then I guess Ill go to hell....but Im not even close to seeing anything that begins to make me think that is the case.

In future, keep your personal attacks/insults to yourself. I dont deliberately insult other people and I expect the same in return. In fact, so does the Forum rules. Unfortunately, personal insults are often the last resort of those who cant (or wont) participate in a civil discussion.

 

[KasinoKing]

Cool, so one of the cards displayed incorrectly. However, the software behaved in such a manner that it paid according to what the server sent e.g. you made 21. In the OPs case, the software behaved in a manner according to what the server sent (no win at all)....but it seems that it 'half showed' a win on line 2. It seems MGS are saying this cannot happen, I assume because the number 2 and the line are joined as one graphical display. You can test this by resetting the lines and re-adding them - the number does what the line does every time.

In your case it was a display error. In this case, MGS and 32Red say it is not....so there is a difference.

I normally agree with most things you say, but so far as this issue goes I am more inclined to believe Wayram is telling the truth.
You're right that we can't directly compare GM's shot to Wayram's, but what GM's picture does prove is that very strange things can happen.
Who is to say what the limit of the strangeness can be? I don't think anyone on this planet is qualified to make that call, not even the MGS software people.

Now as to the screenshot in question; the win-lines and the numbers at the end are separate GIFs - so it is possible in an error situation that one COULD be present without the other.
To see for yourself, do a search on your PC for GIF files starting with "flc_payline" and you will find thousands of different lines for ALL of MG's slots; none of these lines have the numbers on the end.

They look like this:-

 

[Nifty29]

I normally agree with most things you say, but so far as this issue goes I am more inclined to believe Wayram is telling the truth.
You're right that we can't directly compare GM's shot to Wayram's, but what GM's picture does prove is that very strange things can happen.
Who is to say what the limit of the strangeness can be? I don't think anyone on this planet is qualified to make that call, not even the MGS software people.

Now as to the screenshot in question; the win-lines and the numbers at the end are separate GIFs - so it is possible in an error situation that one COULD be present without the other.
To see for yourself, do a search on your PC for GIF files starting with "flc_payline" and you will find thousands of different lines for ALL of MG's slots; none of these lines have the numbers on the end.

They look like this:-

Well you may be right about the graphics....although I figure we would need to see the code to find out if one can display without the other.

It seems pretty obvious that people are on either on one side of the fence or the other about this, and given nobody can prove either way (Pat/MGS didnt address the legitimacy of the SS remember) it will continue to be all about opinions. In my case, some things just dont add up or 'feel' right...just as others have a 'feeling' that it is 100% legit. My view is as credible as any other, and all Ive done in this thread is provide some thoughts based on info Ive gleaned myself and from others. Ive probably gone on about it too much, but issues involving possible dishonesty generate much passion in me and Ive been caught out too many times blindly supporting a member only to end up looking stupid when they turn out to be dodgy.

Ive leave it at that for this thread and thanks to those who have made valuable contributions, and Im sorry if Ive seemed a bit eager at times....but it is with good intentions.

 

[zebedy]

Well you may be right about the graphics....although I figure we would need to see the code to find out if one can display without the other.

It seems pretty obvious that people are on either on one side of the fence or the other about this, and given nobody can prove either way (Pat/MGS didnt address the legitimacy of the SS remember) it will continue to be all about opinions. In my case, some things just dont add up or 'feel' right...just as others have a 'feeling' that it is 100% legit. My view is as credible as any other, and all Ive done in this thread is provide some thoughts based on info Ive gleaned myself and from others. Ive probably gone on about it too much, but issues involving possible dishonesty generate much passion in me and Ive been caught out too many times blindly supporting a member only to end up looking stupid when they turn out to be dodgy.

Ive leave it at that for this thread and thanks to those who have made valuable contributions, and Im sorry if Ive seemed a bit eager at times....but it is with good intentions.

If the screenshot wasnt legit would Pat have compensated the player, or shot him down in flames,
i just cant see a casino manager compensating a cheat, just my opinion
i think it boils down to nobody has a clue what happened.

Or and it just an opinion MG knows exactly what happened but cant admit it was down to a glitch in there software as doing so would open the floodgates to people claiming they have lost money to a bug,

.

 

[bb28]

Well you may be right about the graphics....although I figure we would need to see the code to find out if one can display without the other.

It seems pretty obvious that people are on either on one side of the fence or the other about this, and given nobody can prove either way (Pat/MGS didnt address the legitimacy of the SS remember) it will continue to be all about opinions. In my case, some things just dont add up or 'feel' right...just as others have a 'feeling' that it is 100% legit. My view is as credible as any other, and all Ive done in this thread is provide some thoughts based on info Ive gleaned myself and from others. Ive probably gone on about it too much, but issues involving possible dishonesty generate much passion in me and Ive been caught out too many times blindly supporting a member only to end up looking stupid when they turn out to be dodgy.

Ive leave it at that for this thread and thanks to those who have made valuable contributions, and Im sorry if Ive seemed a bit eager at times....but it is with good intentions.

I've been watching this thread with interest and I won't even pretend that I could venture a guess as the legitimacy of Wayram's claim, but yet I've always been more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and I still do after Pat's/Mgs post. Wayram is a long standing member and with that said, I think we as the membership owe him a little greater amount of respect and benifit of the doubt, than if he had just breezed in here yesterday. Pat's reply did not directly address the screenshot as being legit or not and I'm going with the train of thought that it could certainly be a glitch in the software. Stranger things have happened.

Nifty I usually agree with your viewpoint but in this case you've went on and on and I grew increasingly frustrated with your inclination to keep trying to sway everyone to your point of view about it.

Your opinion is nothing more than a theory...it's only your theory since you don't have access to the code and you've not claimed to be an expert in photoshop so I for one are glad that you are giving it a rest. Seems you got hung up on being right and lost sight of the big picture.

Just my 2 cents.........

 

[Nifty29]

I've been watching this thread with interest and I won't even pretend that I could venture a guess as the legitimacy of Wayram's claim, but yet I've always been more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and I still do after Pat's/Mgs post. Wayram is a long standing member and with that said, I think we as the membership owe him a little greater amount of respect and benifit of the doubt, than if he had just breezed in here yesterday. Pat's reply did not directly address the screenshot as being legit or not and I'm going with the train of thought that it could certainly be a glitch in the software. Stranger things have happened.

Nifty I usually agree with your viewpoint but in this case you've went on and on and I grew increasingly frustrated with your inclination to keep trying to sway everyone to your point of view about it.

Your opinion is nothing more than a theory...it's only your theory since you don't have access to the code and you've not claimed to be an expert in photoshop so I for one are glad that you are giving it a rest. Seems you got hung up on being right and lost sight of the big picture.

Just my 2 cents.........

Fair statement bb. I respect your opinion, and its true that my passion has taken control of my keyboard in this thread. You are correct in saying I should have left it alone a few pages back, but I guess thats just one of my character flaws . My view still remains, but Ive learned something from being involved in this discussion.

As a man of my word, and although I dont accept I was way off base, Ive donated the $50 to the RSPCA as stated in recognition of the fact that there is a chance I am wrong.

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[wayram]

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