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Casino Complaint 18bet.com refusing to payout - Saying transactions wasnt accepted when they are.

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by mart909090, May 12, 2016.

    May 12, 2016
  1. mart909090

    mart909090 Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Work
    Location:
    Sweden
    Im going to give a more detailed version about the case in the thread, but since i was logged out before i managed to post it last time, i will write a short version first just to get this posted.


    I deposited money to 18bet.com using my MasterCard that's connected to my bank account, it usually takes 5 banking days for 18bet.com to book my payments.
    I have gotten confirmation from my bank, together with documentation from their own transaction systems, that the deposits indeed was accepted, and that the only thing that remains is for 18bet.com to book the payments.

    18bet.com is refusing to pay me out my winnings, and here is the statements/questions from them sent to me in their last contact with me, with all the sensitive information masked, together with my answer to them to each and every question:

    -


    "As you have already been informed couple of times credit card transaction processing takes a bit more time comparing with other payment methods. "
    Answer: Yes, I have noticed that deposits made with MasterCard to 18bet.com takes around 5 banking days to get posted.

    "Indeed there is a problem with the last two credit card transactions you performed which caused the delay. We see few attempts but they are failed ones - money is not with us."
    Answer: No, there is no problems with the last two succesful credit card transactions with order id #***** and #*****, this is for other #-ids, as I just explained above.

    "As you let alone noticed, when everything is fine - your withdrawals are being executed (you got paid your winnings twice already)."
    Answer: Yes, I have done 2 succesful withdrawals, to the very same MasterCard, with the very same bank, Swedbank. There is no reason for my winnings to be executed
    or confiscated, considering they have been done through succesful transfers of order id #*****, and #*****.

    "Hence, since now you played with money that you actually haven’t deposited, no outgoing transactions will be processed and the accumulated amount will be redeemed."
    Answer: Wrong, I have played with money that I have deposited, with order id #***** and #*****, which means that I am entitled to get a outgoing transaction for my winnings.
    In the documents I provided from my bank, it also clearly shows that the transactions was accepted, and I think you are mixing it up with transactions that shows as failed under the transaction page because of some other problem, but there is also transaction directly after shown as sucessful in the very next order id. The documentation from the bank also shows that these were accepted.


    "Since you claim that your credit card issuer confirmed that the problematic transactions were actually successful, please ask them to provide you with a proof of that as we only see failed attempts and no money was received."
    Answer: I have now provided you with proof of documents regarding this, and also with a logical explanation towards why 18bet.com might have seen my transactions as unsuccesful.

    The logical explanation to this is the following:

    When checking my transaction page at 18bet.com, the transactions looks like this, and here is also transactions for deposits made earlier, deposits that I then also made succesful withdrawals from (sensitive information masked with ****):

    #***** 05/01/2016 *****.00 Deposit Credit Card SUCCESS
    #***** 05/01/2016 *****.00 Deposit Credit Card Failed

    #***** 05/04/2016 *****.00 Deposit Credit Card SUCCESS
    #***** 05/04/2016 *****.00 Deposit Credit Card Failed

    #***** 05/06/2016 *****.40 Deposit Credit Card SUCCESS
    #***** 05/06/2016 *****.00 Deposit Credit Card Failed


    The amounts on the transaction is the same, and the order id # in the transaction page is for example "1113" for the failed ones, followed by a transaction with order id "1114", meaning the very next one. I am not sure if 18bet.com is mixing these transactions up, and therefore now wrongfully thinks they werent accepted, or if they are doing this on purpose.


    With this post, i am also attaching the documentation sent to the bank from me, with all the sensitive information masked, just to show what the documentation sent from them, to me, looks like, and how detailed it is, meaning there shouldn't be any reason for 18bet.com to have any problems at all with tracking down my payments. This is attached with this thread, in the image below:


    " 18bet.com refusing to payout - Saying transactions wasnt accepted when they are.: 18betTransactionsbank.png,May 12, 2016 ".


    I have masked all the sensitive information, just to show what kind of information that can be shown by this document from the bank.
    Since it's in Swedish, i have translated it to english:

    butiksnamn = store name
    butiksbransch = retail industry
    ort = location/herb
    land = country
    valuta = currency
    kurs = course
    belopp utland = amount foreign
    belopp svenskt = amount Swedish
    belastat konto = charged account
    arkiv referens nummer = archive reference number
    pos entry kod = Item Entry Code
    pos cond kod = pos cond Code
    terminalnummer = terminal number
    meddelandetyp = message type
    korttjänst = card service
    pinsignatur = pin signature
    kontrollnummer = control number
    svarskod = response code
    date/time sweden
    date/time gmt
    date/time locally

    -

    I have provided them will all of the needed documentation, but they are still not giving me my winnings, and tomorrow on the 5th bank day, I will actually see if they book the payments or not.
    I now come to casinomeister to try and get support in how to proceed with this.
     
  2. May 12, 2016
  3. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    They should pay you, as the CS answer that you 'have been playing with money you haven't deposited' if frankly ludicrous. A failed CC deposit is just that - failed and will NEVER show in your playable balance. They have made a mistake here, as you cannot play with a failed deposit. Tell them again, then PAB if they don't pay.
     
  4. May 12, 2016
  5. mart909090

    mart909090 Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Work
    Location:
    Sweden


    I have told them again, and when trying to reach them in the live chat they are simply ignoring me, same as with e-mail contact.
    If someone else tries at You must register/login in order to see the link. to open up the livechat and try to get in contact with them, they respond, but they are simply ignoring me.
     
  6. May 12, 2016
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Wait until past the 5th day when your bank can confirm they were booked, and if they are, proceed with the PAB because this would mean that the problem is with the site or their processor, not your bank, hence they have "received" the money, but failed to properly account for it in their own systems.

    If not, ask your bank why there was this problem, and who's fault it is. Sometimes the problems are caused by payment processors not following proper banking procedures when requesting the money via Mastercard (or VISA), and the banking systems can't always cope with this, and thus some transactions will fail.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. May 12, 2016
  9. mart909090

    mart909090 Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Work
    Location:
    Sweden

    Hi, thank you for your reply.
    I have already been in contact with the bank, both in phone and physically visiting them in person. They have confirmed that the transactions are accepted, and this is also shown in the documents provided by the bank. Under the line "Answer code" it says transaction accepted. The bank confirms that there isnt any problem with the transaction, at all, and the only thing that remains is that 18bet.com needs to book the payment, which they have usually done earlier in the 5th banking day, but now since they already decided to move the funds on my account to themselves, simply emptying it, it of course makes me worried.

    I have already done deposits to 18bet.com with the exact same method before, with my MasterCard connected to this bank, and those times it took exactly 5 banking days until it was marked as posted.
    When making a deposit with MasterCard, with this bank, you also have to put in your bank security code, which is an additional feature to make sure the payments are secured. So the bank already knows that the "fault" is at 18bet.com or the payment system they are using, thus then also showing the documentation clearly showing the transactioned deposits that was credit to my account, also was correctly transferred.
     
  10. May 13, 2016
  11. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Their excuse that the transactions were not accepted is wrong if your bank can confirm that they were. It is also odd that the money turned up in your account for playing. Online casinos are prone to a problem where money simply seems to vanish in transit, being removed from your bank or eWallet account, but not being credited to the casino. It seems to be down to a "time out" problem on the internet, where communication drops and the money is with the casino, but hasn't been tagged with the necessary information needed to allocate it to a specific player's account. This could be a related problem, but one where the casino allocates the credit to the account before the transaction has actually completed, and now it has completed as far as your bank is concerned, the money, like a "time out" issue, is floating in their general account as an "orphan payment" because somehow the information needed to allocate it to your account has been dropped. They are saying that your transaction was not accepted because they cannot see it having been allocated to your account, however they really have to trawl their system for these "orphaned" transactions and see if the books balance overall for all their players who used this method.

    It would need a PAB to get this sorted out because it seems the casino have decided that your bank is not being truthful, and they may not accept from you that it's possible that their systems have somehow "orphaned" your transaction so that they can't allocate it to your account. Max will be more thorough, and will want a more detailed diagnostic review in order to find out what really happened. The casino may simply be worried that if they don't wait the full 5 days, they will run the risk of not getting these transactions after all.

    In the past, some casinos have insisted on up to a 7 day hold on withdrawals where the player has used a deposit method where it takes this long to be absolutely certain that the transaction has fully completed. I recall it was a Canadian deposit method that had this problem, and players didn't like this 7 day hold as most of them were honest and would not have misused the delay to "double dip" the same money.

    This "time out" issue has afflicted a number of my Neteller deposits, but it's much rarer to see it reported when cards are used. It has sometimes taken casinos 2 days to track down the missing funds and put them into the casino account, and often they will ask the player to get the transaction number out of Neteller. In your case, the documentation from your bank should give them the various codes they need in order to trace your transaction through their system, and find out where your money has stalled.
     
  12. May 13, 2016
  13. benmooe

    benmooe Experienced Member webby PABnononaccred MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Social Media Consultant
    Location:
    England.
    Friend is banking staff and gave this advice

    "My understanding is the transactions are showing as pending/earmarked on your end. The issue is that the merchant doesn't pass on a success/decline on pending transactions to your bank until that 5th banking day.

    Still this is very strange how (to follow their argument) they would allow you to play with funds that aren't clearing."


    My advice would be to stop posting publicly any more information about this issue and to raise a PAB with Casinomeister so they can help you get to the bottom of the issue once you've seen if the transactions have "posted" from your mastercard. Unfortunately making too much info public will jeopardise your chances of doing this.

    http://www.casinomeister.com/problems.php

    Bellona (their owners) own 1bet and 18bet and are not rogued or accredited.
     
  14. May 13, 2016
  15. mart909090

    mart909090 Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Work
    Location:
    Sweden
    Hello. I have masked all the sensitive information. If the post here makes it less likely to get help through pab, then so be it.

    I will raise a pab With casinomeister.
    I masked all the sensitivite information to not make it too public. Im willing to provide all information unmasked in the pab.

    I can also see under the list that 18bet is indeed not accredited. What does this mean?

    I have also asked casinomeister to remove the thread if it can help giving me better chance of getting this pab.
     
  16. May 13, 2016
  17. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Short advice:

    - you have one shot for a PAB against an unaccredited casino, so go ahead and submit it. Read all the FAQ's and make sure you complete the form correctly
    - once you have this sorted play only at accredited casinos to save you this kind of hassle in the future.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. May 13, 2016
  19. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    But for the rarest of circumstances, once a thread is created, it's there, well...forever. Once your PAB is submitted, DO NOT post regarding it. If you sill have Qs after reading the PAB FAQ, reach out to this guy, max, he handles the PABs here > http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/member.php?u=1552

    Also, have patience - PABs can take a while - max could have a lot on his plate or it may take time to get answers.

    Good luck. :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. May 13, 2016
  21. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    PAB received and I'll get to it today. The OP is aware that he shouldn't post while the PAB is in progress.
     
  22. Jun 3, 2016
  23. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Its like VWM said, Maybe there just waiting on your cleared funds (the 5 day)

    And like Dunover said if it was a failed transaction than why credit your account?

    Or maybe as the OP said the customer service could of just got mixed up with the failed trans, window advert CS employee

    I do not know the site, Does any body know if its dodgy?

    I can assure you if they are crooked bunch they will decline them payments and just say it has always been denied, Better still keep the payments and winnings,

    I would like to know about the outcome
     
  24. Jun 4, 2016
  25. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Sorry, no outcome yet. The PAB is still a work in progress.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Jun 20, 2016
  27. mart909090

    mart909090 Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Work
    Location:
    Sweden
    I shouldn't post about the PAB while it's in process, but it seems it isn't really going anywhere.
    I was getting some hopes up when the PAB was taken, but it seems like nothing is going to happen here.

    The license provider is not reachable as well, so it's a hard one. :(
    I have learned a lesson though, never ever play on a site like this again.
     
  28. Jun 20, 2016
  29. chiya

    chiya Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    Earth
    Then why are you posting? Posting here complaining that nothing isn't happening will only ensure that nothing isn't happening. Things may be happening behind the scenes but you're just not aware of it; Give it time. I'm sure Max will get back to you and report that 18Bet are not willing to pay up if that's how things end up, but until then, you should stay quiet and stay put.
     
  30. Jun 20, 2016
  31. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Well buddy, congratulations! Between this -- totally disrespectful of the 6 weeks effort I've put in on your behalf __and__ a violation of the PAB FAQ guidelines -- and your "am I going to get any help here?" comment via PM today -- not to mention your incessant nagging -- and voila! Your PAB has been cancelled! In addition to that you are not welcome to use the PAB service again. Consider yourself PAB banned. So ... good job you! :axeman:

    In case you find yourself scratching your head wondering what went wrong please refer to the multiple times I asked you to read the FAQ, your repeated promises that you had, my multiple cautions to you that this was a complex issue involving your bank and the casino and would take time to resolve, your relentless nagging about "rogue this" and "ban that" and my explanations that that's not how things work. You've been a perfect PITA and I wash my hands of you and your bitch-ass complaining.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  32. Jun 20, 2016
  33. goatwack

    goatwack bombastic monk CAG

    Occupation:
    Stuntman
    Location:
    Londonia
    Well, patience runs thin after a while and people ought to realize that this service didn't just fall off a tree but is run on good will.

    I'm sure Max and co have jobs and lives of their own and are doing this as a courtesy to us. A little patience and gratitude never hurt anyone!
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Jun 20, 2016
  35. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    True, but that's neither expected nor required. What is required is following the instructions given and showing some basic respect for them and the person working on the PABer's behalf. When that fails the process is doomed. See above.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Jun 20, 2016
  37. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    I aint every used the PAB service but I can imagine how time consuming it is and the demands that can come with this. I can fully see and agree why this one was binned.

    Right England playing on the box 1 point needed :D
     
    1 person likes this.

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