Casino Complaint 18bet.com refusing to payout - Saying transactions wasnt accepted when they are.

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mart909090

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
May 12, 2016
Location
Sweden
Im going to give a more detailed version about the case in the thread, but since i was logged out before i managed to post it last time, i will write a short version first just to get this posted.


I deposited money to 18bet.com using my MasterCard that's connected to my bank account, it usually takes 5 banking days for 18bet.com to book my payments.
I have gotten confirmation from my bank, together with documentation from their own transaction systems, that the deposits indeed was accepted, and that the only thing that remains is for 18bet.com to book the payments.

18bet.com is refusing to pay me out my winnings, and here is the statements/questions from them sent to me in their last contact with me, with all the sensitive information masked, together with my answer to them to each and every question:

-


"As you have already been informed couple of times credit card transaction processing takes a bit more time comparing with other payment methods. "
Answer: Yes, I have noticed that deposits made with MasterCard to 18bet.com takes around 5 banking days to get posted.

"Indeed there is a problem with the last two credit card transactions you performed which caused the delay. We see few attempts but they are failed ones - money is not with us."
Answer: No, there is no problems with the last two succesful credit card transactions with order id #***** and #*****, this is for other #-ids, as I just explained above.

"As you let alone noticed, when everything is fine - your withdrawals are being executed (you got paid your winnings twice already)."
Answer: Yes, I have done 2 succesful withdrawals, to the very same MasterCard, with the very same bank, Swedbank. There is no reason for my winnings to be executed
or confiscated, considering they have been done through succesful transfers of order id #*****, and #*****.

"Hence, since now you played with money that you actually haven’t deposited, no outgoing transactions will be processed and the accumulated amount will be redeemed."
Answer: Wrong, I have played with money that I have deposited, with order id #***** and #*****, which means that I am entitled to get a outgoing transaction for my winnings.
In the documents I provided from my bank, it also clearly shows that the transactions was accepted, and I think you are mixing it up with transactions that shows as failed under the transaction page because of some other problem, but there is also transaction directly after shown as sucessful in the very next order id. The documentation from the bank also shows that these were accepted.


"Since you claim that your credit card issuer confirmed that the problematic transactions were actually successful, please ask them to provide you with a proof of that as we only see failed attempts and no money was received."
Answer: I have now provided you with proof of documents regarding this, and also with a logical explanation towards why 18bet.com might have seen my transactions as unsuccesful.

The logical explanation to this is the following:

When checking my transaction page at 18bet.com, the transactions looks like this, and here is also transactions for deposits made earlier, deposits that I then also made succesful withdrawals from (sensitive information masked with ****):

#***** 05/01/2016 *****.00 Deposit Credit Card SUCCESS
#***** 05/01/2016 *****.00 Deposit Credit Card Failed

#***** 05/04/2016 *****.00 Deposit Credit Card SUCCESS
#***** 05/04/2016 *****.00 Deposit Credit Card Failed

#***** 05/06/2016 *****.40 Deposit Credit Card SUCCESS
#***** 05/06/2016 *****.00 Deposit Credit Card Failed


The amounts on the transaction is the same, and the order id # in the transaction page is for example "1113" for the failed ones, followed by a transaction with order id "1114", meaning the very next one. I am not sure if 18bet.com is mixing these transactions up, and therefore now wrongfully thinks they werent accepted, or if they are doing this on purpose.


With this post, i am also attaching the documentation sent to the bank from me, with all the sensitive information masked, just to show what the documentation sent from them, to me, looks like, and how detailed it is, meaning there shouldn't be any reason for 18bet.com to have any problems at all with tracking down my payments. This is attached with this thread, in the image below:


" 18betTransactionsbank.png ".


I have masked all the sensitive information, just to show what kind of information that can be shown by this document from the bank.
Since it's in Swedish, i have translated it to english:

butiksnamn = store name
butiksbransch = retail industry
ort = location/herb
land = country
valuta = currency
kurs = course
belopp utland = amount foreign
belopp svenskt = amount Swedish
belastat konto = charged account
arkiv referens nummer = archive reference number
pos entry kod = Item Entry Code
pos cond kod = pos cond Code
terminalnummer = terminal number
meddelandetyp = message type
korttjänst = card service
pinsignatur = pin signature
kontrollnummer = control number
svarskod = response code
date/time sweden
date/time gmt
date/time locally

-

I have provided them will all of the needed documentation, but they are still not giving me my winnings, and tomorrow on the 5th bank day, I will actually see if they book the payments or not.
I now come to casinomeister to try and get support in how to proceed with this.
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
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They should pay you, as the CS answer that you 'have been playing with money you haven't deposited' if frankly ludicrous. A failed CC deposit is just that - failed and will NEVER show in your playable balance. They have made a mistake here, as you cannot play with a failed deposit. Tell them again, then PAB if they don't pay.
 

mart909090

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
May 12, 2016
Location
Sweden
They should pay you, as the CS answer that you 'have been playing with money you haven't deposited' if frankly ludicrous. A failed CC deposit is just that - failed and will NEVER show in your playable balance. They have made a mistake here, as you cannot play with a failed deposit. Tell them again, then PAB if they don't pay.


I have told them again, and when trying to reach them in the live chat they are simply ignoring me, same as with e-mail contact.
If someone else tries at
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to open up the livechat and try to get in contact with them, they respond, but they are simply ignoring me.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Wait until past the 5th day when your bank can confirm they were booked, and if they are, proceed with the PAB because this would mean that the problem is with the site or their processor, not your bank, hence they have "received" the money, but failed to properly account for it in their own systems.

If not, ask your bank why there was this problem, and who's fault it is. Sometimes the problems are caused by payment processors not following proper banking procedures when requesting the money via Mastercard (or VISA), and the banking systems can't always cope with this, and thus some transactions will fail.
 

mart909090

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
May 12, 2016
Location
Sweden
Wait until past the 5th day when your bank can confirm they were booked, and if they are, proceed with the PAB because this would mean that the problem is with the site or their processor, not your bank, hence they have "received" the money, but failed to properly account for it in their own systems.

If not, ask your bank why there was this problem, and who's fault it is. Sometimes the problems are caused by payment processors not following proper banking procedures when requesting the money via Mastercard (or VISA), and the banking systems can't always cope with this, and thus some transactions will fail.

Hi, thank you for your reply.
I have already been in contact with the bank, both in phone and physically visiting them in person. They have confirmed that the transactions are accepted, and this is also shown in the documents provided by the bank. Under the line "Answer code" it says transaction accepted. The bank confirms that there isnt any problem with the transaction, at all, and the only thing that remains is that 18bet.com needs to book the payment, which they have usually done earlier in the 5th banking day, but now since they already decided to move the funds on my account to themselves, simply emptying it, it of course makes me worried.

I have already done deposits to 18bet.com with the exact same method before, with my MasterCard connected to this bank, and those times it took exactly 5 banking days until it was marked as posted.
When making a deposit with MasterCard, with this bank, you also have to put in your bank security code, which is an additional feature to make sure the payments are secured. So the bank already knows that the "fault" is at 18bet.com or the payment system they are using, thus then also showing the documentation clearly showing the transactioned deposits that was credit to my account, also was correctly transferred.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi, thank you for your reply.
I have already been in contact with the bank, both in phone and physically visiting them in person. They have confirmed that the transactions are accepted, and this is also shown in the documents provided by the bank. Under the line "Answer code" it says transaction accepted. The bank confirms that there isnt any problem with the transaction, at all, and the only thing that remains is that 18bet.com needs to book the payment, which they have usually done earlier in the 5th banking day, but now since they already decided to move the funds on my account to themselves, simply emptying it, it of course makes me worried.

I have already done deposits to 18bet.com with the exact same method before, with my MasterCard connected to this bank, and those times it took exactly 5 banking days until it was marked as posted.
When making a deposit with MasterCard, with this bank, you also have to put in your bank security code, which is an additional feature to make sure the payments are secured. So the bank already knows that the "fault" is at 18bet.com or the payment system they are using, thus then also showing the documentation clearly showing the transactioned deposits that was credit to my account, also was correctly transferred.
Their excuse that the transactions were not accepted is wrong if your bank can confirm that they were. It is also odd that the money turned up in your account for playing. Online casinos are prone to a problem where money simply seems to vanish in transit, being removed from your bank or eWallet account, but not being credited to the casino. It seems to be down to a "time out" problem on the internet, where communication drops and the money is with the casino, but hasn't been tagged with the necessary information needed to allocate it to a specific player's account. This could be a related problem, but one where the casino allocates the credit to the account before the transaction has actually completed, and now it has completed as far as your bank is concerned, the money, like a "time out" issue, is floating in their general account as an "orphan payment" because somehow the information needed to allocate it to your account has been dropped. They are saying that your transaction was not accepted because they cannot see it having been allocated to your account, however they really have to trawl their system for these "orphaned" transactions and see if the books balance overall for all their players who used this method.

It would need a PAB to get this sorted out because it seems the casino have decided that your bank is not being truthful, and they may not accept from you that it's possible that their systems have somehow "orphaned" your transaction so that they can't allocate it to your account. Max will be more thorough, and will want a more detailed diagnostic review in order to find out what really happened. The casino may simply be worried that if they don't wait the full 5 days, they will run the risk of not getting these transactions after all.

In the past, some casinos have insisted on up to a 7 day hold on withdrawals where the player has used a deposit method where it takes this long to be absolutely certain that the transaction has fully completed. I recall it was a Canadian deposit method that had this problem, and players didn't like this 7 day hold as most of them were honest and would not have misused the delay to "double dip" the same money.

This "time out" issue has afflicted a number of my Neteller deposits, but it's much rarer to see it reported when cards are used. It has sometimes taken casinos 2 days to track down the missing funds and put them into the casino account, and often they will ask the player to get the transaction number out of Neteller. In your case, the documentation from your bank should give them the various codes they need in order to trace your transaction through their system, and find out where your money has stalled.
 

benmooe

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
MM
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Location
England.
Friend is banking staff and gave this advice

"My understanding is the transactions are showing as pending/earmarked on your end. The issue is that the merchant doesn't pass on a success/decline on pending transactions to your bank until that 5th banking day.

Still this is very strange how (to follow their argument) they would allow you to play with funds that aren't clearing."


My advice would be to stop posting publicly any more information about this issue and to raise a PAB with Casinomeister so they can help you get to the bottom of the issue once you've seen if the transactions have "posted" from your mastercard. Unfortunately making too much info public will jeopardise your chances of doing this.

http://www.casinomeister.com/problems.php

Bellona (their owners) own 1bet and 18bet and are not rogued or accredited.
 

mart909090

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
May 12, 2016
Location
Sweden
Friend is banking staff and gave this advice

"My understanding is the transactions are showing as pending/earmarked on your end. The issue is that the merchant doesn't pass on a success/decline on pending transactions to your bank until that 5th banking day.

Still this is very strange how (to follow their argument) they would allow you to play with funds that aren't clearing."


My advice would be to stop posting publicly any more information about this issue and to raise a PAB with Casinomeister so they can help you get to the bottom of the issue once you've seen if the transactions have "posted" from your mastercard. Unfortunately making too much info public will jeopardise your chances of doing this.

http://www.casinomeister.com/problems.php

Bellona (their owners) own 1bet and 18bet and are not rogued or accredited.
Hello. I have masked all the sensitive information. If the post here makes it less likely to get help through pab, then so be it.

I will raise a pab With casinomeister.
I masked all the sensitivite information to not make it too public. Im willing to provide all information unmasked in the pab.

I can also see under the list that 18bet is indeed not accredited. What does this mean?

I have also asked casinomeister to remove the thread if it can help giving me better chance of getting this pab.
 

Harry_BKK

Meister Member
CAG
mm1
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Hello. I have masked all the sensitive information. If the post here makes it less likely to get help through pab, then so be it.

I will raise a pab With casinomeister.
I masked all the sensitivite information to not make it too public. Im willing to provide all information unmasked in the pab.

I can also see under the list that 18bet is indeed not accredited. What does this mean?

I have also asked casinomeister to remove the thread if it can help giving me better chance of getting this pab.
Short advice:

- you have one shot for a PAB against an unaccredited casino, so go ahead and submit it. Read all the FAQ's and make sure you complete the form correctly
- once you have this sorted play only at accredited casinos to save you this kind of hassle in the future.
 

dionysus

Contest Manager
Staff member
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Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
Hello. I have masked all the sensitive information. If the post here makes it less likely to get help through pab, then so be it.

I will raise a pab With casinomeister.
I masked all the sensitivite information to not make it too public. Im willing to provide all information unmasked in the pab.

I can also see under the list that 18bet is indeed not accredited. What does this mean?

I have also asked casinomeister to remove the thread if it can help giving me better chance of getting this pab.
But for the rarest of circumstances, once a thread is created, it's there, well...forever. Once your PAB is submitted, DO NOT post regarding it. If you sill have Qs after reading the PAB FAQ, reach out to this guy, max, he handles the PABs here > http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/member.php?u=1552

Also, have patience - PABs can take a while - max could have a lot on his plate or it may take time to get answers.

Good luck. :thumbsup:
 

spintee

Ueber Meister
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Location
Northants
Its like VWM said, Maybe there just waiting on your cleared funds (the 5 day)

And like Dunover said if it was a failed transaction than why credit your account?

Or maybe as the OP said the customer service could of just got mixed up with the failed trans, window advert CS employee

I do not know the site, Does any body know if its dodgy?

I can assure you if they are crooked bunch they will decline them payments and just say it has always been denied, Better still keep the payments and winnings,

I would like to know about the outcome
 

mart909090

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
May 12, 2016
Location
Sweden
I shouldn't post about the PAB while it's in process, but it seems it isn't really going anywhere.
I was getting some hopes up when the PAB was taken, but it seems like nothing is going to happen here.

The license provider is not reachable as well, so it's a hard one. :(
I have learned a lesson though, never ever play on a site like this again.
 

chiya

Senior Member
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Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Location
Earth
I shouldn't post about the PAB while it's in process, but it seems it isn't really going anywhere.
I was getting some hopes up when the PAB was taken, but it seems like nothing is going to happen here.

The license provider is not reachable as well, so it's a hard one. :(
I have learned a lesson though, never ever play on a site like this again.
Then why are you posting? Posting here complaining that nothing isn't happening will only ensure that nothing isn't happening. Things may be happening behind the scenes but you're just not aware of it; Give it time. I'm sure Max will get back to you and report that 18Bet are not willing to pay up if that's how things end up, but until then, you should stay quiet and stay put.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
I shouldn't post about the PAB while it's in process, but it seems it isn't really going anywhere.
I was getting some hopes up when the PAB was taken, but it seems like nothing is going to happen here.
Well buddy, congratulations! Between this -- totally disrespectful of the 6 weeks effort I've put in on your behalf __and__ a violation of the PAB FAQ guidelines -- and your "am I going to get any help here?" comment via PM today -- not to mention your incessant nagging -- and voila! Your PAB has been cancelled! In addition to that you are not welcome to use the PAB service again. Consider yourself PAB banned. So ... good job you! :axeman:

In case you find yourself scratching your head wondering what went wrong please refer to the multiple times I asked you to read the FAQ, your repeated promises that you had, my multiple cautions to you that this was a complex issue involving your bank and the casino and would take time to resolve, your relentless nagging about "rogue this" and "ban that" and my explanations that that's not how things work. You've been a perfect PITA and I wash my hands of you and your bitch-ass complaining.
 
Last edited:

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
CAG
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Aug 30, 2012
Location
Londonia
Well, patience runs thin after a while and people ought to realize that this service didn't just fall off a tree but is run on good will.

I'm sure Max and co have jobs and lives of their own and are doing this as a courtesy to us. A little patience and gratitude never hurt anyone!
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
A little ... gratitude never hurt anyone!
True, but that's neither expected nor required. What is required is following the instructions given and showing some basic respect for them and the person working on the PABer's behalf. When that fails the process is doomed. See above.
 

Deeplay

New World Order
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The biG Eu
I aint every used the PAB service but I can imagine how time consuming it is and the demands that can come with this. I can fully see and agree why this one was binned.

Right England playing on the box 1 point needed :D
 

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