Is the USA an oligarchy?

jetset

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The US is dominated by a rich and powerful elite.

So concludes a recent study by Princeton University Prof Martin Gilens and Northwestern University Prof Benjamin I Page.

This is not news, you say.

Perhaps, but the two professors have conducted exhaustive research to try to present data-driven support for this conclusion. Here's how they explain it:

Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organised groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.

In English: the wealthy few move policy, while the average American has little power.....
 
All one has to do is look at the constituents of our legislature.

Nearly all of our Senators and Representatives are either former corporate lawyers from big business or career politicians so it is no wonder that the laws and regulations they pass are almost entirely to the benefit of big business and protecting politicians from the problems of the masses. If the congress was made up chiefly of former plumbers I bet the plumbing industry would see plenty of favorable legislation.

I have always thought our lawmakers should be selected by lottery from the general public. Get some real people in there from all walks of life then the legislation will be aimed more at benefiting all walks of life.
 
While I think this is some what true as you move up the food chain, I do believe that at the local level, the average person still has some say. I have personally gathered groups of my neighbors on several occasions, gone to city council meeting, voiced our opinion and effected change.
I do write letters to my local and federal representatives about issues that are important to me, and I do think that my voice is being heard. I don't always get what I want, but that is life.

Most people feel they have no control over what happens but they have never really made any effort. Sorry, but the why bother attitude does not cut it with me.

Get off your ass and go down to city hall and voice your opinion. Be polite, factual and be prepared to answer questions. You might be surprised.
 
While I think this is some what true as you move up the food chain, I do believe that at the local level, the average person still has some say. I have personally gathered groups of my neighbors on several occasions, gone to city council meeting, voiced our opinion and effected change.
I do write letters to my local and federal representatives about issues that are important to me, and I do think that my voice is being heard. I don't always get what I want, but that is life.

Most people feel they have no control over what happens but they have never really made any effort. Sorry, but the why bother attitude does not cut it with me.

Get off your ass and go down to city hall and voice your opinion. Be polite, factual and be prepared to answer questions. You might be surprised.

That's all well and good for the things we know about but what about all the crap that goes on under the radar?

Sure, we can go to town hall and get a stop sign put up or a pothole fixed, that's kinda how they keep us quiet.

How about big corporate subsidies, bank bailouts, and who gets government contracts? Unless you have big money you stand little chance of influencing those matters on a National level.

Our representatives are tasked to handle these things and we generally don't hear all the facts about them until it's a done deal.
 
I should think this is true of most countries. So should we conclude that democracy is an illusion? To my way of thinking most decisions and policies are made by the few ruling elite (those with money and power) in most countries. We have not moved that far away from the feudal system as we would like to believe. Today we just call it different things. The ones with money and power rule the world. Scary thought if you stop to think about it really.
 
That's all well and good for the things we know about but what about all the crap that goes on under the radar?

Sure, we can go to town hall and get a stop sign put up or a pothole fixed, that's kinda how they keep us quiet.

How about big corporate subsidies, bank bailouts, and who gets government contracts? Unless you have big money you stand little chance of influencing those matters on a National level.

Our representatives are tasked to handle these things and we generally don't hear all the facts about them until it's a done deal.


Well, in that respect you're well ahead of us poor Limeys.....:(
 
One of our representatives is from our county... not only from this county, but from this town. Bumped into him at a cookout last year. I had even dated the worthless sob once eons ago. My boss grew up with him, and being a rural area, everyone knows everyone. Anyway... long story short... I asked about some things, the 'Affordable' Health Care Act and how it's affecting people in our state, the possibility of gambling/lottery for our state, the federal minimum wage laws...

Most I got out of him?? 'I'll have to look into that'. WTF?? I looked at him like he was nuts, and told him: "Mr. xxxxx, with no disrespect intended, YOU work for ME, and all these other people here who are feeding you and me today from their own pantries.... And you won't even discuss small matters? This is a fund raiser, so I assume you want re-elected next time 'round, I and these other people here need to know your opinion on some things."

You elect a 'regular' guy and that's what happens.... they turn into mealy-mouthed, side-stepping politicians with no regard for where they came from or who they (supposedly) represent.

/rant (And don't we need to move this discussion to the political section? LOL)
 
I've always felt more at ease with local politics since the common citizen (in my opinion) has more pull with locally elected officials as well as changing local laws. But that's about it. The federal and state governments are controlled not only by special interests with deep pockets, but also by slanted and ignorant media outlets. It seems that the only intelligent news service is NPR or news reports from outside the US to tell things as it is. I don't even bother watching the news on the telly anymore (specifically local news in the States) since it's just a bunch of slanted dramatized garbage spewed by "good-lookers" who at the most could barely debate themselves out of a paper bag.

I for one feel rather disenfranchised since I am not a resident of the States and can only vote in general elections. The most I can do is voice an opinion with the hope that there is some call to action. That's about it.
 
I don't think the wealthy few or the greedy politicians they keep in their back pocket are the problem. Regardless of whether or not a few honest politicians or a few greedy self serving ones are making the big decisions, someone is still making them and we do still have the right to decide who is in power. They are still supposed to be working for us.

The problem is what we are told and what we believe. And when the wealthy few own the media we have to be really careful about what we believe. Every television station, radio station and newspaper is going to have it's own political leanings and when you get your news from one source you're going to get a watered down, bias version of the truth.

This is the wall that's been built between us and them. This is where we have failed. Allowing our news media to become politically subservient and then allowing ourselves to believe everything they tell us is the whole truth.

Now I'm not talking about big conspiracies. These things are probably pretty rare. All it really takes is a selective process of filtering what they want us to hear. Maybe report how much this party is spending over here but not how much they're saving over there.

There's no way we're going to change the fact that billionaires are going to sponsor political parties and those parties are going to "earn" that money. What we need is a trusted source who can honestly find out how they're earning that money and then decide if these things are in our best interest so we can vote accordingly. We probably haven't had that in 50 years and the people running these countries know it.

If everyone knew exactly what they were voting for, what we are voting for might be a little bit more in our better interest.
 
This story caught my eye and resonated especially with me because in our own industry we have such a graphic example i.e. the Sheldon Adelson big money crusade against online gambling, and the apparent ease with which enough bucks will buy publicity and politicians.

My personal view is that the use of big money to influence politics - and not only in the United States - has now been allowed to go too far.
 
One of our representatives is from our county... not only from this county, but from this town. Bumped into him at a cookout last year. I had even dated the worthless sob once eons ago. My boss grew up with him, and being a rural area, everyone knows everyone. Anyway... long story short... I asked about some things, the 'Affordable' Health Care Act and how it's affecting people in our state, the possibility of gambling/lottery for our state, the federal minimum wage laws...

Most I got out of him?? 'I'll have to look into that'. WTF?? I looked at him like he was nuts, and told him: "Mr. xxxxx, with no disrespect intended, YOU work for ME, and all these other people here who are feeding you and me today from their own pantries.... And you won't even discuss small matters? This is a fund raiser, so I assume you want re-elected next time 'round, I and these other people here need to know your opinion on some things."

You elect a 'regular' guy and that's what happens.... they turn into mealy-mouthed, side-stepping politicians with no regard for where they came from or who they (supposedly) represent.

/rant (And don't we need to move this discussion to the political section? LOL)

And why do you think that is?

I think it's probably because he has been bullied by the career politicians and big-worded lawyers he has to work with. They've probably told him if he wants to keep his job he better ask one of them what his opinion is before he gives it.

So as it is now you can have a guy scared to speak his mind or a professional spin doctor who will twist everything around to make it look like his view is the only one that makes sense; and still will not have told you his true stance.

Get rid of all the pros. and let real people work out the problems.
 
This story caught my eye and resonated especially with me because in our own industry we have such a graphic example i.e. the Sheldon Adelson big money crusade against online gambling, and the apparent ease with which enough bucks will buy publicity and politicians.
.

The survey is spot on, it's a pretty simple study. S@it walks and money talks. I don't think it's a small group but rather the ones that have enough money to fund their agenda such as Adelson.

Adelson with his billions will continue to fight, the iGaming industry will never grow within the US and could be shut down completely but JMO.

Simple math, Big Money = Problems. :thumbsup:
 

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And why do you think that is?

I think it's probably because he has been bullied by the career politicians and big-worded lawyers he has to work with. They've probably told him if he wants to keep his job he better ask one of them what his opinion is before he gives it.

So as it is now you can have a guy scared to speak his mind or a professional spin doctor who will twist everything around to make it look like his view is the only one that makes sense; and still will not have told you his true stance.

Get rid of all the pros. and let real people work out the problems.

He worked his way 'up' through politics... local, then district, etc. now he's making more money than any farm boy would ever hope to see. He is not a bad man, as best I can tell, but he has become 'one' with the 'don't rock the boat' political system. Say nothing, do nothing, sit back and collect the money.

It seems inevitable that politicians forget why they've been elected and the people they're supposed to represent. The 'system' and the money that greases the political wheels speaks louder than citizens.

After I called him 'Mr.' during my little hissy fit... he said, 'You don't need to call me Mister... We've known each other for years. You can still call me Richard.' I said, 'No I can't. You're not 'Richard' anymore.'

And I will vote against him next election.
 
He worked his way 'up' through politics... local, then district, etc. now he's making more money than any farm boy would ever hope to see. He is not a bad man, as best I can tell, but he has become 'one' with the 'don't rock the boat' political system. Say nothing, do nothing, sit back and collect the money.

It seems inevitable that politicians forget why they've been elected and the people they're supposed to represent. The 'system' and the money that greases the political wheels speaks louder than citizens.

After I called him 'Mr.' during my little hissy fit... he said, 'You don't need to call me Mister... We've known each other for years. You can still call me Richard.' I said, 'No I can't. You're not 'Richard' anymore.'

And I will vote against him next election.

I hear you.

It's all about the money and doing everything they can to preserve their do-nothing jobs. I believe, originally, politics was something ordinary citizens did for a short time then got back to their regular lives. Personally, on the National level, I would like to see strict term limits on the majority of congress of 1 term.

Perhaps each State should be allowed to have 1 adviser that could be re-elected ad nauseam, someone knowledgeable in procedure just to make sure things are done properly, this way the regular guys would not be outnumbered and pushed around and there would be no reason not to speak your mind because you would not have to worry about getting re-elected. There should probably be some sort of basic competency test for people who want to serve but throw the names in a hat and pull the required number of names.
 
Well, in that respect you're well ahead of us poor Limeys.....:(

It's true. many things are decided even at local level "behind closed doors". We can vote, but if we try to dig too deeply into certain policies and deals, we find that some information cannot be given to us due to "commercial confidentiality", which overrides even the Freedom of information act. It means that if there is a covert deal being negotiated, it can be legally hidden from the electorate, who can then be fed just that information that is favourable to the party in power remaining there.

Sometimes, even the most trivial requests are denied, such as "Are we going to get a Primark here in the redeveloped town centre?". We are also not allowed to know which firm has won the contract for the build, although we will find out as they will be unable to resist putting their brand on their plant and hoardings once they start.

It is an issue of major local interest, as it is about the form that our town centre will take for decades to come, but it seems we have little or no say in how the project is run, and what will be there in the end. It even appears that the entire town centre will be "private property", rather than public land, so we may not even have an automatic right of entry and thoroughfare through the heart of town, and if we have any issues, the council will be powerless to act because "It's privately owned land". This is already happening elsewhere in the town, so the fear is founded.

If it's like this at local level, it is bound to be worse at national level.

Recently, the government have tried to bulldoze through an anti lobbying bill, but some experts claim that this will prevent local and national interest groups from campaigning on issues such as poverty, but will not prevent big business funded lobbying of government ministers and MPs due to exploitable loopholes that they seem reluctant to close.
 
I think Big John may be on to the beginnings of a possible solution, but to be honest I don't know what the answer is to a problem that is taking governments away from the democratic ideal.

Major parties now regiment the opinions of individual "representatives" it seems, subjugating the needs and wishes of communities to the power politics and broader strategies of the big political parties. Hell, in some countries the vote is for parties and the party boss then appoints the representatives, which seems to me ass-backwards in democratic and community terms!
 

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