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Thread: Virtual VS bsilva028 : split from the Virtual Probation thread

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    it was already said before that after the 180 days of probation will also have something to vote what we think of put them out of the rogue pit or not.

    i asked to the reps clarify some good things, like until now nothing was answered neither changed in their rogue rules, i will not say more nothing about this.

    when the vote happens i will give my vote
    continue in rogue pit forever, it will be what i will vote.

    [Max says: this post and the 100+ that follow were originally part of The Virtual Casino Group and Ace Revenue and were split off because it became a massive, fraudster-inspired derail. Apologies for any discontinuities that may have caused: thread splitting is not an exact science and there will be jagged edges here and there. If anything actually needs fixing -- moved from this thread to that or whatever -- please send me a PM with the details (post number, link, whatever) and I'll do what I can to make things right. FTR this post originally appeared here.]
    Last edited by maxd; 24th December 2013 at 01:49 PM.

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    Virtual VS bsilva028 : split from the Virtual Probation thread

    me, like i said before, for me this is one more trick of them
    however, and like when i started online gambling, (i didn´t know anything about best or worst casinos) in a search it appeared me one of their casinos, in that time i registered, i have made some deposites, when i tried to casout the 1st time i did not get paid in that time with stupid escuses, so since there until now i uninstalled them and never logged in again

    yesterday, in 1 of their spams, it was a free chip, like it was free, not my own money, i played it, completed the playthrough and tried to cashout.
    uninstalled again.

    i am now waiting for the results.
    i am not expecting to get paid so early, i only played it with test purposes, i want to see if they are really different (thing that i dont belive)
    but let´s just see.

    if i get paid in less than 1 month, i will post here, if i dont get paid in that time (thats what i belive it will happen) i will post also.

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    well, like i said before, i would post here the results

    the withdrawal request was denied, asked live chat why:

    excuse given:

    "players from portugal can´t cashout from free chips"
    so even if receive them in e-mail they cant cashout.

    its more than proof:
    this is a big trick of virtual to try get out and keep being the same as they allways was:
    rogue rogue and rogue again.
    i will not complaint with anything, like i also said before, i was not expecting to gat paid, this was only a test, the test results are the same as few years ago. they dit not changed and i dont belive that they will change never.

    there are lots of other rogue casinos but, so rogues like this group? i dont belive.
    they are really the shame of online gambling and they should disapear from the planet for a better online gambling world happen.
    Last edited by bsilva028; 20th December 2013 at 09:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsilva028 View Post
    well, like i said before, i would post here the results

    the withdrawal request was denied, asked live chat why:

    excuse given:

    "players from portugal can´t cashout from free chips"
    so even if receive them in e-mail they cant cashout.

    its more than proof:
    this is a big trick of virtual to try get out and keep being the same as they allways was:
    rogue rogue and rogue again.
    i will not complaint with anything, like i also said before, i was not expecting to gat paid, this was only a test, the test results are the same as few years ago. they dit not changed and i dont belive that they will change never.

    there are lots of other rogue casinos but, so rogues like this group? i dont belive.
    they are really the shame of online gambling and they should disapear from the planet for a better online gambling world happen.
    This is classic Virtual rogue behaviour. They decide not to pay, and then think up an excuse to justify it. If they were acting with honesty and integrity, they would not be sending players free chips in the first place if they could never cash out. You will probably find that the blame will now be shifted onto an affiliate having "spammed" you with that offer without regard to your eligibility.

    If they have embarked on a programme of great change, it seems the memo has yet to reach the CS agent that you dealt with. This should have been addressed BEFORE they embarked on this publicity push, so that such embarrassing "test results" would not come to bite them on the ass.
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinylweatherman View Post
    This is classic Virtual rogue behaviour. They decide not to pay, and then think up an excuse to justify it. If they were acting with honesty and integrity, they would not be sending players free chips in the first place if they could never cash out. You will probably find that the blame will now be shifted onto an affiliate having "spammed" you with that offer without regard to your eligibility.

    If they have embarked on a programme of great change, it seems the memo has yet to reach the CS agent that you dealt with. This should have been addressed BEFORE they embarked on this publicity push, so that such embarrassing "test results" would not come to bite them on the ass.

    yes also belive that the excuse now will be: "its not our fault, its affiliate´s fault, affiliates are sending spams where they have acess to the username that the player uses in the casino, so its their fault not ours, we are honnest"


    if they were really different they should say: lets honour what we sent, but with the guarantee that players from country a,b or c or or player 1,2 or 3 will no longer receive promotions and/or free chips

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    Quote Originally Posted by suzecat View Post
    Debbee was this disclosed to you during any of the honest talks you had with virtual staff?
    When I saw the posts by bsilva, I contacted the casino straight away to ask for the full story. I don't feel it is my place to discuss this, but I'm quite certain Tawni will be explaining things in detail. What I will say is that perhaps, when
    CM
    members get the full story, you may have a different opinion in this situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinylweatherman View Post
    This is classic Virtual rogue behaviour. They decide not to pay, and then think up an excuse to justify it. If they were acting with honesty and integrity, they would not be sending players free chips in the first place if they could never cash out. You will probably find that the blame will now be shifted onto an affiliate having "spammed" you with that offer without regard to your eligibility.

    If they have embarked on a programme of great change, it seems the memo has yet to reach the CS agent that you dealt with. This should have been addressed BEFORE they embarked on this publicity push, so that such embarrassing "test results" would not come to bite them on the ass.
    Ok, first off I think everyone has seen and knows I am not the biggest Virtual Fan. But.... it is in the terms and condition that players from Portugal cannot withdraw from free chips. If the mail came from them it is a stuff up, but they would not be the first casino to send players free spins or bonuses to players from bonus banned countries, my bet though it will be from an affiliate but you should still check the terms regardless.

    The one thing I do not like about this term is this little bit
    We retain the right to lift these restrictions on an individual basis
    I was going to stay out of this thread, dammit.
    Casino Player Reviews - Where your opinion counts!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsgame View Post
    Ok, first off I think everyone has seen and knows I am not the biggest Virtual Fan. But.... it is in the terms and condition that players from Portugal cannot withdraw from free chips. If the mail came from them it is a stuff up, but they would not be the first casino to send players free spins or bonuses to players from bonus banned countries, my bet though it will be from an affiliate but you should still check the terms regardless.

    The one thing I do not like about this term is this little bit

    I was going to stay out of this thread, dammit.
    This also relates to their other rogue practice of deliberately sending players offers they are not allowed to use. Mostly, it was the "back to back free chip trick" that got them the most flak. They would aggressively market free chips to players and many took the offers in good faith. They then sprung the trap later on when the player managed to win. Sometimes, it wasn't even a win from a free chip, but a win much later on that was confiscated because at some time in the past they had played back to back free chips.

    If this offer came from the casino, they knew damn well where this player resided, and that this would render them ineligible. To make matters worse, they have the discretionary removal of the restriction on an individual basis. Of course, if a player receives such an offer direct from the casino, it is reasonable to believe that they have done so because they have had the restriction lifted.

    Given that large offers and free chips are the fundamental business model used by this group, it is even more damning given that they vigorously defend the practice because "our players like it". Of course they do, except the ones that win and find out the whole thing was a clever illusion designed to fleece them.

    Whilst they may have certain restrictions in their terms, it seems they are pretty random. Why single out Portugal seemingly at random for an extra special shafting Who else has been disadvantaged by some term or other that can change overnight without notice?

    So far, it seems that nothing has changed, and the few members here that admit they have dipped their toes in to see if things HAVE changed appear to be finding out that nothing really has changed after all.
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsilva028 View Post
    well, like i said before, i would post here the results

    the withdrawal request was denied, asked live chat why:

    excuse given:

    "players from portugal can´t cashout from free chips"
    so even if receive them in e-mail they cant cashout.

    its more than proof:
    this is a big trick of virtual to try get out and keep being the same as they allways was:
    rogue rogue and rogue again.
    i will not complaint with anything, like i also said before, i was not expecting to gat paid, this was only a test, the test results are the same as few years ago. they dit not changed and i dont belive that they will change never.

    there are lots of other rogue casinos but, so rogues like this group? i dont belive.
    they are really the shame of online gambling and they should disapear from the planet for a better online gambling world happen.
    There are definitely two sides to every story and this is no exception.

    In the case of bsilva, at a quick first glance, it appears that he has created no less than 40+ accounts within six of our casinos, since 2008 (quite possibly, more). He has made a total of $80 in deposits (back in 2008). With each account, he has used free chips and has been denied winnings previously, four times, based on the fact that he resides in Portugal. He cannot claim he was unaware of this term.

    In this particular instance, bsilva not only ignored the term stating he cannot withdraw on bonuses due to his location, but also he broke the term regarding multiple free chips without depositing. He accepted three free chips in succession, Dec. 17th.

    He states:
    yes also belive that the excuse now will be: "its not our fault, its affiliate´s fault, affiliates are sending spams where they have acess to the username that the player uses in the casino, so its their fault not ours, we are honnest"
    This is patently untrue. We’ve looked up the origins of the coupons he used. Two of the three came from casinofreebees.com. The third came from the casino itself, a standard free chip offered to all its players.

    As a result of what has occurred, I’ve spoken with management regarding making changes with the following:

    • We need to find a way to limit the number of accounts any player has.
    • We also need to find a clear way to prevent players from those countries with bonus limitations from redeeming free chips.
    • Additionally, we need to implement some sort of fix, preventing players from using multiple free chips without depositing, between.


    Management is in full agreement with what I’ve described and will immediately look into how these fixes can be achieved. I will report back on progress on these items, in the coming days.

    I wont comment on spam/ownership but on the subject of inactive accounts I do believe Virtual can go one step further. The dreaded term may have been removed but what about those innocent players who had their balances confiscated in the past. This is just so wrong so if you wish to act in good faith and give 'Virtual' a push literally thought should be given to restore the players' confiscated balances. Should Virtual feel, like many banks nowadays, that inactive/dormant accounts costs them resources in servicing they may consider slapping a fee of say no more than 5% of the balances. In other words, please consider returning at least 95% of the money back. In the long run, this will show your goodwill though monetarily speaking, it may be painful to part with others' money already pocketed.
    I don’t disagree with this and I will speak with management regarding this, Monday. As Greedygirl mentioned early on, the resolution center has re-opened, so if anyone has had this term enforced, I invite them to please submit a claim to resolutions@gwages.com (for the Virtual brands) or resolutions@acerevenue.com (for the Ace brands).

    We know who the previous owner was, and probably still is.

    I think what would be a little comforting would be to know if there is a board of directors or the like that is going to handle the day to day operations and see to it that the players concerns have a little higher priority, which they haven't in the past.

    Lack of information will lead to speculation and if the behavior of the casino supports that speculation it will be seen to confirm it.

    Perhaps you could explain the chain of command and where our withdrawal requests would go once submitted and how it takes your casinos 7 days to do what the vast majority of others do in 1 or 2 days, or instantly. The long pending period suggests that the casino doesn't really want to pay.
    This is quite a bit to address in one shot. This brings into play limitations due to difficulties with the U.S. I’m not trying to skirt things, but because this is going to require lengthy explanations, I’ll hold off until tomorrow. It’s been a very long day and I’d like to be thorough in my response to this.

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  15. #10
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    This is the most damning of all.

    The third came from the casino itself, a standard free chip offered to all its players.
    You have knowingly been sending such offers to players who are ineligible.


    As a result of what has occurred, I’ve spoken with management regarding making changes with the following:

    •We need to find a way to limit the number of accounts any player has.
    We also need to find a clear way to prevent players from those countries with bonus limitations from redeeming free chips.
    •Additionally, we need to implement some sort of fix, preventing players from using multiple free chips without depositing, between.

    Er, try reading the
    RTG
    user manual - Club World can do it, and have been doing just this for some while.

    Only the first is the tricky one, something all casinos have problems with, and something that the software cannot really get to grips with when faced with a player who is knowingly and determinedly trying to beat the system.

    This is also a serious accusation against a
    CM
    member, and one that needs to be tested independently as to it's validity.

    Unfortunately, Virtual in the past have pulled this "multiple accounts" trick before, and in some cases it has been bogus, merely a means to deny payouts.

    I am also interested as to why Portugal has been singled out, it's just an EU member state, and a long standing one. It is considered no more or less "criminal minded" than any of the other long standing EU member states. one can understand such terms for countries that have a chaotic regime, or which have undergone dramatic changes, but only because this makes an easier environment for fraudsters and criminals to operate because the state structure is not fit to properly police the citizens.
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

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