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Thread: Blatant cheating caught at empire/party poker and they do nothing

  1. #1
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    I was in a multi table tournament at empire poker on wednesday night. When it was down to final table a player and his railbird friend were chatting. The player tells his on looker to stop him before he makes a bad move. I object to this and to floorperson where i sit on hold, imagine someone doing this in real life poker room. They chat back and forth while im on hold about hands and players complain and they just laugh, we get down to 4 players and this happens.



    ***** Hand History for Game 268241231 *****
    150/300 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 1505530) - Thu Dec 04 01:03:33 EST 2003
    Table Multi-Table(5707) Table 1 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
    Total number of players : 6
    Seat 1: wahoosteve (4113)
    Seat 2: Pokeraddict1 (5910)
    Seat 3: NYC_BEEEEJ (7858)
    Seat 4: LLCrewGrr (3589)
    Seat 8: visualizing (2665)
    Seat 9: huntins (2865)
    visualizing posts small blind (75)
    huntins posts big blind (150)
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to Pokeraddict1 [ Qc, Jc ]
    wahoosteve calls (150)
    Pokeraddict1 calls (150)
    NYC_BEEEEJ calls (150)
    LLCrewGrr folds.
    visualizing calls (75)
    huntins checks.
    ** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ad, Kc, Tc ]
    visualizing checks.
    huntins checks.
    wahoosteve checks.
    Pokeraddict1 bets (150)
    NYC_BEEEEJ raises (700) to 700
    visualizing folds.
    huntins folds.
    wahoosteve calls (700)
    Pokeraddict1 raises (5610) to 5760

    ================================================
    This is the cheating part
    Pokeraddict1 calls all-In.
    Iveyson: dont call
    NYC_BEEEEJ folds.
    ===============================================
    wahoosteve calls (3263)
    wahoosteve calls all-In.
    ** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8d ]
    ** Dealing River ** : [ 9c ]
    Creating Main Pot with $9376 with wahoosteve
    Creating Side Pot 1 with $1797 with Pokeraddict1
    ** Summary **
    Main Pot: 9376 | Side Pot 1: 1797
    Board: [ Ad Kc Tc 8d 9c ]
    wahoosteve balance 0, lost 4113 [ Ac As ] [ three of a kind, aces -- Ac,As,Ad,Kc,Tc ]
    Pokeraddict1 balance 11173, bet 5910, collected 11173, net +5263 [ Qc Jc ] [ a straight flush, king high -- Kc,Qc,Jc,Tc,9c ]
    NYC_BEEEEJ balance 7008, lost 850 (folded)
    LLCrewGrr balance 3589, didn't bet (folded)
    visualizing balance 2515, lost 150 (folded)
    huntins balance 2715, lost 150 (folded)




    If you notice I check raised his friend and suddenly the railbird yells DONT CALL as he lags to act. I had a str8 flush as you can see in hand history next hand he threatens me. This is in hand 268241231 where he tells me "We'll do what we want, I'm your worst night mare *******" probably meaning asshole. Next hand I get knocked out when he calls me on a gutshot to beat my trip 8's. IMPOSSIBLE, especially since he didnt call something he was proud enough to 4 bet b4 flop and think about calling all in hand before. Live help guarantees me prize money for this cheating and says these 2 players will be banned and the cheating player will lose his 1st place and it will be divided among other 3 players. Well 2 more live chats and 4 more emails and nothing is done, they dont even respond to emails. The biggest poker room on earth isnt gonna keep its word? Not gonna stand up to its reputation of promising fair poker games? Anyone with party, empire, or any other affiliate can see that hand # and read chat for themself. Anyone have ideas on how to get party to keep their word? I'm out of ideas since they ignore my emails. Its one thing if this was random but their rep saw it was obvious the player asked this railbird in chat for his help making this collusion.

  2. #2
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    pokeraddict, send me details to webmaster@got2bet.com - I don't promise I can get anything done but I should at least be able to get an answer.

    In any case, that onlooker should have immediately been kicked from the table/room. But there is no way he could have known you had a straight flush, I presume your cards could only have been known to you.

    Under those circumstances, it's not cheating. It is bullshit, however.

    That's my early reading.

    Make sure you include all the transcripts and the emails if possible. The more evidence, the better.

  3. #3
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    pokeraddict : Have not played online poker yet because i was not comfortable about possibility of cheating.

    I did not realize that Non Players can look in and watch a game And that these onlookers can see all the players cards as dealt? Is that true?

    How where the railbird and the player communicating? (in some obvious way that you could see/hear it i guess?)

    Or were there two players colluding?

  4. #4
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    I'm not saying he could see my cards, he only was giving advice to his friend like he was asked to do in open chat. I dont have the transcript of the chat with empire(stupid me) when they promised me a solution. I assumed it would be done. Their support has been great in the past. I have complained once before about a similar incident and ive reported disconnection cheating and collusion and gotten timely responses. Spearmaster I will email you the second hand # i have. I know support could easily see all the chat with the click of a button to see how bad this table talk was. You would think in a big $$ multi they would have an employee witness the final table. If you notice I flopped nut straight and had nuts as long as board didnt pair cause i had nut flush draw too. After the other player called all in i rivered straight flush, he flopped pocket aces into a set. BAD LUCK

  5. #5
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    Is there a rule against this kind of commenting? I agree with Spear that it is b.s., but don't think it can be called cheating. I've played in a bunch of tournaments where you have 2 or 3 railbirds yelling 'ALL IN!' at the last 2 or 3 players on pretty much every hand. To me that's the same kind of thing. B.S. to be sure, but not cheating or collusion. Should that type of thing be an offense worthy of banning someone? (I finally told one of them to f*** off, and to my surprise, he shut up!)

  6. #6
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    Maybe they should change the program so that only the people sitting at the table in a tournament can comment in chat. Or maybe filter is so those sitting at the table only see the chat from others at the table. Then the railbirds can yell all they want and not disturb the players. That would be a better way to do it I think.

  7. #7
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    When i went to log in to get the full hand histories for spear i saw they have put $127, half the difference between me and the next place in my account as a promo. As for this not being cheating this wasnt a random on looker. This player and the railbird chatted non stop at final table and the player asked for him to help him. Empire never sent ma an email but I guess this is their solution. A fair compromise I guess but an email stating their position would have been nice.

  8. #8
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    Yeah, they definately should have said something. At least they finally came thru with the prize $$ for you.

  9. #9
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    Pokeraddict:

    The rule of poker "is one player to a hand".
    With the railbird guiding the player is definitely collusion, anyway you slice it! I play at Party Poker and I will be bringing this up to them. I am glad that the two players were banned, as they should be.

    ***hugs***
    Linda

  10. #10
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    I still don't understand how it can be collusion or cheating if only one player was playing at the table and the other just says 'don't call'. Its not like he could be standing behind you to see your str8 draw and give this guy advice like if it were a live game. And since he's not at the table, I don't see the collusion aspect of it either.

    Maybe one of you can enlighten me on this one.

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