Resolved Problem with 888.com

TheTrader

Non-Gambler
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Location
Shropshire
Hi all :)

I am a newbie so please forgive me if i ramble on.


I joined 888 last week after a recommendation from a fellow gambler and deposited £40 to try it out. Almost straight away i started to get very decent wins and game bonuses even though i was only playing 30p bets and after playing for a few days i managed to get it up to £420 after hitting 50 free spins x 3 bonus on the HULK machine which rebooted them in 3 time on the spins which was one of the most exciting games i have ever played.

Almost immediately after the 150 spin bonus and after my £420 win, just 10 minutes later i had a message on the screen saying my account had been 'temporarily suspended'

I mailed the casino help line and nothing for 2 days then i received this email :

Dear xxxx,

This is Louisanne J. from the Operations Department at Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd.
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd operates "888casino".

When performing a security check on your account, we noticed that you used a payment method where we weren't able to verify your complete details (such as your age) through our security checks.

Therefore, your account is subject to temporary restrictions until this verification is completed. This means that currently the account remains open for your continued pleasure, but we will be unable to process withdrawals from your account until we have verified your registration details further.

In order to do so I request that you send us a photocopy of your ID, Passport or Driver's license.

This document can be sent to us by you uploading it through the cashier on our site. To do this please log on and then access the cashier through the lobby and select the Confirm Your ID option.


Regards,
Louisanne J.
Operations Department
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd.
operations@cassava.net


I replied :

Hi

I will be able to upload my passport to you but the only problem is that my account still seems to be locked and i cannot log on.
regards


After another 2 days i received this :

Dear xxxx,

I am Mario L. from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd. Cassava Enterprises manages operational services for 888casino.
I am contacting you in regards to your account with username "xxxxxxxxxx".

Thank you for your most recent email.

Upon review of your account, I can see that you requested a Self Exclusion on August 28, 2012 on a related account which is also managed and operated by the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd. Please note, when a member request a Self Exclusion it is for a period of six months or more their account cannot be re-activated until the time period has elapsed. As this account is related to other accounts they have been closed for the same time period.

Unfortunately, in accordance of our very strict Self Exclusion policy, I am unable to re-activate your account at this time. You will be able to have your account re-activate until February 24, 2013. Please note, when you are ready to re-activate your account you should contact the manager at manager@888poker.com for your account.

Kind Regards,
Mario L.

Operations Department
Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd

So it turns out that because i have asked for a 6 month cooling off period from another casino which was owned by Cassava (first time i ever heard of Cassava was my first email to me after my suspension) that now because i have happened to have joined another casino that is also owned by them my account is also suspended there.

My point is this, how many people look at the small print at the bottom of a casino page to find out which company owns the casino?
I joined 888 with all honesty, with my full details and upfront, what would be the point of me joining 888 if i knew beforehand that some 6 month cooling off period would affect another casino which at that point i joined not knowing that it was owned by a comglomerate who also owned the previous site?

I think the other site they mention was Foxy Bingo which i asked for a 6 month cooling off period in August as i had just lost my job and could not afford to gamble at that time. I have since inherited a property from my grandmother that i rent out which gives me a decent monthly income so i joined 888 after as i said a bit of asking around for recommendations.

I believe that Cassava have been totally non customer focused here and are using a technicality to not pay my winnings.
They were easy enough to allow me to join 888 with the same details and take my deposit.
Also it was very strange after i won those 150 spins x 3 that won over £400 from a 30p spin that just 10 minutes later my account was suspended on screen live.
 
Since they have said they have closed the account for 6 months, you just have to wait until Feb and ask them to reactivate it. Lesson learned, you can then withdraw your money and steer clear of them.


It is INTENTIONAL that players can't find out whether other casinos are all part of the Cassava group, so no amount of reading the small print would have helped you. As one is a bingo site, even the software is different.

This is the problem with the self exclusions. Players are not really aware of how the process works, and often think they are excluding from one specific site (as you did).

You will have the same problem with any other site they operate, and because they refuse to provide a list of all of them, it is hard for players to find out. I know that Reef Club is directly related to 888/casino on net, but they have dozens of "white label" sites that pretend to be independently run, and this is where players get caught out.

You should assume that any casino that has the look and feel of 888 is related, along with any bingo site that looks like Foxy. You could also search for the word "Cassava" on the website to determine a possible relationship.
 
Well VWM, as usual, you have just offered your opinion as fact....and it is inaccurate in this case.

The OP has obviously not done ANY research about who they are depositing money with and about the process of self-exclusion at Foxy Bingo.

Here is the information at the bottom of the home page of Foxy Bingo (and the print isn't that small I saw it right away):

FoxyBingo is licensed and regulated to offer online gaming services under the laws of Gibraltar through Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) which makes no representation as to legality of such services in other jurisdictions.We encourage responsible gambling and support GamCare. Our principal postal address is Suite 601-701 Europort, Europort Avenue, Gibraltar.
Licensed by the Government of Gibraltar and Regulated by the Gibraltar Gambling Commissioner. Remote Gaming License No. RGL 022



In regards to self-exclusion, the information provided is very clear:

You acknowledge and agree that should you choose to self-exclude from any of the Sites, you shall not be permitted to open or use a new account with any other Site operated by the Company during your selected self-exclusion period, until such self-exclusion has been lifted and the original account reopened. In the event you are in breach of the foregoing, we shall be entitled to block any new account you open with another Site, forfeit any funds you may deposit (or have previously deposited) therein, and shall not be liable to refund to you any funds you may have wagered or won through such account.

xhttp://www.foxybingo.com/responsible.php

So, I don't see how 888 have done anything wrong here. If anything, they are actually helping a compulsive gambler.

The OP needs to take responsibility for this one and pay more attention to what they are doing in future. Just a minimal amount of due diligence would have avoided this situation.

It also appears the OP will not be receiving the winnings in Feb 2013 (either because of the terms or the Mayan Apocalypse)
 
Nifty 29

Only new here so i am not sure who is who but the job i lost through cuts Nifty29 was a managerial position in the County Trading standards department during which time as for many years i enjoy the odd gamble also the odd punt on the horses of a saturday which my wife calls my little treat as i limit myself to £200 a month which on my salary was miniscule. As a responsible person, once i had lost my job i decided to close down my account with Foxy Bingo for their 6 month cooling down offer.

So to assume i am a "Compulsive Gambler" shows me that you have some serious issues of your own.

I live and breathe small print and clauses and what i have discovered with some quick research over the net is that there are many complaints regarding not just Cassava but many online casinos using this loophole to their own situation, i.e. many cases where players have set up accounts with related casinos of a previous self exclusion where the players accounts have gone unclosed for over a month if the player is showing constant losses, i.e. depositing regularly on a losing streak. <---- see the emerging pattern ----> closed after a few days of losses which suddenly turn into a win streak which is then withdrawable.

I have called in a few favours from an ombudsman i know through work and they have confirmed that the software used by most of the top casinos IS able to instantly cross check all new registrations with past records of self excluders going back at least 5 years.

Now answer me this (with a non sarcastic reply please Nifty29) why is this is the case do they use the software to their 'advantage'?

I have checked with one of the government funded barristers that we used to use and he has actually looked into this yesterday and apparently by accepting you as a new member of a related casino to the self exclusion, if the software enables instant cross referencing the casino group in allowing you to join and deposit is actually breaking the original contract with the first casino which says "all reasonable care will be taken by the group to disable the player to join any other casino owned by the group.

In effect they are not taking reasonable care as their software as most casino security software now is sold by just 3 main security software companies allows for instant recognition which in effect shows that they are actually complacent.

All deposits made under those circumstances are refundable whether their own TOC's state the contrary or not as they have been proved by the very existence of being able to instantly ban and do not until days later, to be complacent and breaching their own contract of self exclusion between them and the player.

The smart alec response of yours saying that every self excluder should check the bottom page of every new site they join in 5 months, 2 years or 5 years is absolutely ridiculous.

There are many casino groups i have copied for my own reasons over the last few days who after some research are owned by some major names but do not show any notice at all of the relation within the sites.


As i said i have inherited a house now and the £2k a month rental i charge enables me to reinstate my "little treat" and also i have just received news that my application for employment with Staffordshire Trading Standards is successful so again that comment of compulsive gambler i suggest you take a look in the mirror judging by your own posts and the amount of them !!
 
While I am not Nifty29 greatest fan, he is right (OK, the compulsive gambler part was harsh).

You self excluded. You saw, or they were available to be seen, the link to Cassava.

To say you posted at 11.42 with the OP and then at 1.30 we find out you have spoken to an Ombudsman (Which one you fail to say and it would be quite relevant) and a barrister.

You say

I have called in a few favours from an ombudsman i know through work and they have confirmed that the software used by most of the top casinos IS able to instantly cross check all new registrations with past records of self excluders going back at least 5 years.

I find that to be rubbish. Microgaming or Playtech I would imagine are the 2 largest casino software providers and though you may play microgaming with Ladbrokes, and be self excluded, it doesnt mean that 32red would be able to access Ladbrokes Self Exclusion list nor visa versa or inter ala.

Why you have to mention you get £2k rent from a house I dont know. Is it in ANYWAY relevant to the topic?
 
Only new here so i am not sure who is who but the job i lost through cuts Nifty29 was a managerial position in the County Trading standards department during which time as for many years i enjoy the odd gamble also the odd punt on the horses of a saturday which my wife calls my little treat as i limit myself to £200 a month which on my salary was miniscule. As a responsible person, once i had lost my job i decided to close down my account with Foxy Bingo for their 6 month cooling down offer.

So to assume i am a "Compulsive Gambler" shows me that you have some serious issues of your own.

I live and breathe small print and clauses and what i have discovered with some quick research over the net is that there are many complaints regarding not just Cassava but many online casinos using this loophole to their own situation, i.e. many cases where players have set up accounts with related casinos of a previous self exclusion where the players accounts have gone unclosed for over a month if the player is showing constant losses, i.e. depositing regularly on a losing streak. <---- see the emerging pattern ----> closed after a few days of losses which suddenly turn into a win streak which is then withdrawable.

I have called in a few favours from an ombudsman i know through work and they have confirmed that the software used by most of the top casinos IS able to instantly cross check all new registrations with past records of self excluders going back at least 5 years.

Now answer me this (with a non sarcastic reply please Nifty29) why is this is the case do they use the software to their 'advantage'?

I have checked with one of the government funded barristers that we used to use and he has actually looked into this yesterday and apparently by accepting you as a new member of a related casino to the self exclusion, if the software enables instant cross referencing the casino group in allowing you to join and deposit is actually breaking the original contract with the first casino which says "all reasonable care will be taken by the group to disable the player to join any other casino owned by the group.

In effect they are not taking reasonable care as their software as most casino security software now is sold by just 3 main security software companies allows for instant recognition which in effect shows that they are actually complacent.

All deposits made under those circumstances are refundable whether their own TOC's state the contrary or not as they have been proved by the very existence of being able to instantly ban and do not until days later, to be complacent and breaching their own contract of self exclusion between them and the player.

The smart alec response of yours saying that every self excluder should check the bottom page of every new site they join in 5 months, 2 years or 5 years is absolutely ridiculous.

There are many casino groups i have copied for my own reasons over the last few days who after some research are owned by some major names but do not show any notice at all of the relation within the sites.


As i said i have inherited a house now and the £2k a month rental i charge enables me to reinstate my "little treat" and also i have just received news that my application for employment with Staffordshire Trading Standards is successful so again that comment of compulsive gambler i suggest you take a look in the mirror judging by your own posts and the amount of them !!

Nice high five KK :rolleyes:

@trader

Interesting. So, by your logic, I am being a smartarse by "labelling you a compulsive gambler" (which I didn't)....so then you label me a compulsive gambler. Ummm...yeah right. :rolleyes:

You also imply that the quantity of posts in this forum indicates the degree/seriousness of one's compulsive gambling problem.

You should be embarrassed based solely on those two gems alone.

Did you check that the casino/s you played at use this "security software" before you signed up? It's obviously important to you, yet you didn't do the research. What constitutes "reasonable care" would be down to a judge, and would depend on the jusrisdiction in which the court was located. If you feel so strongly, you should hire your lawyer friend and sue them. I mean, if it's such a sure thing as you say, you can't lose right?

Also, you state that you "live and breathe small print"...yet you totally missed the information clearly displayed about the ownership of the casinos. No deliberate cover up going on there. If you had read the (non) small print on the self-exclusion page (which you obviously didn't even though you live and breathe things like this), then you would have checked the casinos you signed up with to make sure they weren't related. IMO that's what a reasonable person would have done.

The casino disabled your account quickly by your accounts. Not immediately, but quickly. When you received the second email 2 days later, your account had been locked all that time. Good luck selling that the casino did not react quickly enough to a court.

Your statement about the house and your job are irrelevant. Compulsive gamblers can earn $m's a year and own 20 houses. It shows that you don't even know what a compulsive gambler is, yet you're happy to accuse me of being one. When I stated "the casino was helping a compulsive gambler" I did not say that you WERE a CG...just that this is what the casino's POV is as a result of your self-exclusion, and in fact the whole idea of self-exclusion in the first place. My view is that if you have to resort to self-exclusion, you have issues with self control, which is a hallmark of a compulsive gambler. In fact, if someone told me that they excluded themselves, I would immediately think they had a gambling problem, and I think most people would. It's certainly better than basing it on the number of posts one makes in a forum.

It's also possible that if you joined the second casino with different details etc, the software will not pick it up immediately.

Anyway, my point is that there are things that YOU could have done to prevent this situation, yet you blame it entirely on the casino. IMO that is unfair.

As an aside, I did NOT say anything untoward about you personally in my last post, yet you come out all guns blazing and insult me several times. In my experience, it is a poor way to introduce yourself to a new forum, and shows a lack of maturity.

You should have your deposit returned.
 
So to assume i am a "Compulsive Gambler" shows me that you have some serious issues of your own.
....
Now answer me this (with a non sarcastic reply please Nifty29) why is this is the case do they use the software to their 'advantage'?
es.
....
The smart alec response of yours saying that every self excluder should check the bottom page of every new site they join in 5 months, 2 years or 5 years is absolutely ridiculous.
....

As i said i have inherited a house now and the £2k a month rental i charge enables me to reinstate my "little treat" and also i have just received news that my application for employment with Staffordshire Trading Standards is successful so again that comment of compulsive gambler i suggest you take a look in the mirror judging by your own posts and the amount of them !!

Let's keep personal jibes out of the conversation, thank you.

KK's high five has been removed. Please don't.
 
Other than Nifty's usual sarcastic style of writing I cant see what is wrong with his reasoning. 888.com is a rogue but the closure/suspension of account is ell within their rules. To the OP:

Live well with your inheritance and forget about gambling. Your inheritance wont get you far if you still have a gambling problem. If this casino doesnt use your self-exclusion to void your winnings you will be $420 richer in a few months time. Trust me, your inheritance windfall wont get you very far if you are still addicted.
 
hmm

Other than Nifty's usual sarcastic style of writing I cant see what is wrong with his reasoning. 888.com is a rogue but the closure/suspension of account is ell within their rules. To the OP:

Live well with your inheritance and forget about gambling. Your inheritance wont get you far if you still have a gambling problem. If this casino doesnt use your self-exclusion to void your winnings you will be $420 richer in a few months time. Trust me, your inheritance windfall wont get you very far if you are still addicted.



So another who says i am addicted because i gamble? So everyone else who is posting here on CasinoMeister gamble but are not addicted or compulsive gamblers?

I think i may have joined the wrong forum as after writing that "i limit myself to £200 a month as a treat" that in some way i am suddenly an addict and everyone else is a non gambler but experts on casinos and gambling?

Strange :)

btw, Nifty, i suggest you read your post again "They are helping a compulsive gambler" ?????
 
So another who says i am addicted because i gamble? So everyone else who is posting here on CasinoMeister gamble but are not addicted or compulsive gamblers?

I think i may have joined the wrong forum as after writing that "i limit myself to £200 a month as a treat" that in some way i am suddenly an addict and everyone else is a non gambler but experts on casinos and gambling?

Strange :)

btw, Nifty, i suggest you read your post again "They are helping a compulsive gambler" ?????

Nifty's op was based on your self exclusion and why casino's endorse it, in 99.99999999% of cases players do this because of a major gambling problem, no one is saying you're a compulsive gambler, all Nifty has stated is that you opted in for something that is basically incorporated for compulsive gamblers.

In the nutshell if you were to ask Nifty questions relating to certain casinos and their relative T&C's the guy could save you money, and in a lot of cases - heartbreak ;).
 
The casino could do a check against their self exclusion database at registration, and deny the account opening there.

But they don't because if the player deposits and loses, guess what, no database check, no problem, thanks for the cash.

But dare to win, and oops, you're excluded, sorry, winnings confiscated.

This is just another example of a casino freerolling the player, and you guys are just eating it up.
 
The casino could do a check against their self exclusion database at registration, and deny the account opening there.

But they don't because if the player deposits and loses, guess what, no database check, no problem, thanks for the cash.

But dare to win, and oops, you're excluded, sorry, winnings confiscated.

This is just another example of a casino freerolling the player, and you guys are just eating it up.

Good point bpb; what if the OP had lost his deposit; would his acount still have been (temporarily) closed and his deposit returned? Don't think so!
 
So another who says i am addicted because i gamble? So everyone else who is posting here on CasinoMeister gamble but are not addicted or compulsive gamblers?

I think i may have joined the wrong forum as after writing that "i limit myself to £200 a month as a treat" that in some way i am suddenly an addict and everyone else is a non gambler but experts on casinos and gambling?

Strange :)

btw, Nifty, i suggest you read your post again "They are helping a compulsive gambler" ?????

You self-excluded yourself and couldnt gamble cos you were laid off and once you received an inheritance you gambled. You may not see it that way but the addiction signs are definitely there. You got an inheritance so use it wisely and improve your standard of living. Only think of gambling as entertainment when you can earn your own keep.
 
KK's high five has been removed. Please don't.
I was not "high fiving" the comments about Nifty - if thats what you thought. I was thanking him for a generally "useful and informative post", which is what I thought the thanks button was supposed to be for.

KK
 
Well anyway lets cut a long story short. If you self exclude yourself it means that you either , Need to stop as your losing a lot of money , Or your worried that you will spend you winnings.

Im going to take punt here.

Its most probably a good job they have blocked your account because if you have had to self exclude yourself it will probably mean you would have blown all of your winnings.

So instead of thinking ''damn they have blocked my Account''

Think it like yes '' thankyou 888 looks like im getting a extra payday in 6 months'' (it could be seen as them doing you a favour)

To conclude (you excluded yourself and even though im not a fan of 888 they are doing there job.)
 
Thanks Rachel

Casava have contacted me and agreed to not only return my deposit but all of the winnings i accumulated while the account was active after delving back at the original emails after i had self excluded agreeing that it was not fully explained to me and that other mails from 888 would have confused the issue. They are making an exception in my case.

Thank you Rachel for a very swift and positive action on this :).


As for the others who say that a person who has gambled to a LIMIT of £200 a month for 10 years who by the way does not smoke or drink and stopped gambling straight away after his job loss is an Addicted Gambler (see my point) then i suggest it is ME that has the commons sense as a non addict to stop when i knew it would financially hurt me then restart when i knew i could AFFORD it (see my point?)

I class addicted gamblers as people who treat gambling more than just a few hours a week as a treat and a punt to a LIMIT (me) and who are that into gambling as a way of social and personal life that they spend their waking life posting hundreds or thousands of posts on a CasinoMeister.

THAT is what i call addiction.

Admin, thanks for my use of your site to solve my problem but please delete my account now as i feel sort of grubby posting on a site dedicated to gambling which is inherently worrying to me about the people with masses of posts over much time that they could have been socially interacting instead.
 
Casava have contacted me ... Admin, thanks for my use of your site to solve my problem but please delete my account now ....

Good to hear they dealt with your issue, thanks for letting us know. Unfortunately we don't simply delete accounts. Standard procedure is to mark the account as "dormant", I'll flag the site webmaster (Bryan) that you want this done. You'll need to email bryan@casinomeister.com if you want your account reactivated.
 
Casava have contacted me and agreed to not only return my deposit but all of the winnings i accumulated while the account was active after delving back at the original emails after i had self excluded agreeing that it was not fully explained to me and that other mails from 888 would have confused the issue. They are making an exception in my case.

Thank you Rachel for a very swift and positive action on this :).


As for the others who say that a person who has gambled to a LIMIT of £200 a month for 10 years who by the way does not smoke or drink and stopped gambling straight away after his job loss is an Addicted Gambler (see my point) then i suggest it is ME that has the commons sense as a non addict to stop when i knew it would financially hurt me then restart when i knew i could AFFORD it (see my point?)

I class addicted gamblers as people who treat gambling more than just a few hours a week as a treat and a punt to a LIMIT (me) and who are that into gambling as a way of social and personal life that they spend their waking life posting hundreds or thousands of posts on a CasinoMeister.

THAT is what i call addiction.

Admin, thanks for my use of your site to solve my problem but please delete my account now as i feel sort of grubby posting on a site dedicated to gambling which is inherently worrying to me about the people with masses of posts over much time that they could have been socially interacting instead.

Just stop posting.

As for the rest of your post.....nobody said you were a compulsive gambler. You either can't read or have a comprehension issue.

How do you know who "socially interacts" and who doesn't? You slam others here for calling you a compulsive gambler based on you self-excluding, but it's OK for you to call everyone else here "socially inept" or "problem gamblers" based on the number of posts they make. I could mention that some people are housebound, or disabled, or have social phobias, who find interaction with others (i.e.it is called SOCIAL INTERACTION) very fulfilling and a source of relief and joy.

Not only are you a hypocrite, you also have no clue what you're on about.

Nice way to thank the site (and members) who pointed you in the right direction.....dissing the place and the people who frequent it.
 
Just stop posting.

As for the rest of your post.....nobody said you were a compulsive gambler. You either can't read or have a comprehension issue.

How do you know who "socially interacts" and who doesn't? You slam others here for calling you a compulsive gambler based on you self-excluding, but it's OK for you to call everyone else here "socially inept" or "problem gamblers" based on the number of posts they make. I could mention that some people are housebound, or disabled, or have social phobias, who find interaction with others (i.e.it is called SOCIAL INTERACTION) very fulfilling and a source of relief and joy.

Not only are you a hypocrite, you also have no clue what you're on about.

Nice way to thank the site (and members) who pointed you in the right direction.....dissing the place and the people who frequent it.

Must be this Christmas thing because AGAIN I agree with Nifty.

The other part I find Ironic is now that you have used the site and its sevices offered, you want to close your account rather than being part of the overall community. Thats, to me, says alot about you.
 
From the T's and C's that nifty posted

In the event you are in breach of the foregoing, we shall be entitled to block any new account you open with another Site, forfeit any funds you may deposit (or have previously deposited) therein, and shall not be liable to refund to you any funds you may have wagered or won through such account.


That is totally wrong and roguish, if a player self excludes any deposits he makes in future accounts he opens should be returned, winnings should not normally be paid

Section 27 5.4 of this Document
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 
From the T's and C's that nifty posted

In the event you are in breach of the foregoing, we shall be entitled to block any new account you open with another Site, forfeit any funds you may deposit (or have previously deposited) therein, and shall not be liable to refund to you any funds you may have wagered or won through such account.


That is totally wrong and roguish, if a player self excludes any deposits he makes in future accounts he opens should be returned, winnings should not normally be paid

Section 27 5.4 of this Document
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I'm pretty sure that's just a standard clause most use to try and dissuade people from opening new accounts which end up costing the casino money. Most casinos will refund but they don't want people doing it because they pay a processing fee for the deposit, a processing fee for the refund and obviously there are adminsitrative overheads too. All costs that the casino has to bear.

All that said, an effective system should actually prevent the account being re-opened in the first place.
 
Refund from Cassava

Hi quick question guys if you don’t mind. I have a refund from cassava due to the allowing self excluded player from joining a sister site. They are refunding my deposits which I wasn’t expecting and very pleased about. But they haven’t given a breakdown of the refund and I have self exclusion emails and statements for 5 different cards. I have asked for a subject access report so I can check against my records? Do they have to give me this and what can I realistically do if I am ignored? Anyone know??
 

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