deucebag VS RedRabbit Casino

[deucebag]

Took their first deposit bonus, played Aces & Faces video poker, and lost. Took their second deposit bonus, played Aces & Faces video poker, and won. But no, they confiscate my money. Reason: I played Aces & Faces Video Poker. They claim this was restricted through their terms and conditions:

Turnover/play on all Classic Blackjack variations, all versions of Atlantic City Blackjack, all versions of Vegas Downtown Blackjack, all versions of Vegas Single Deck Blackjack and all Vegas Strip variations, all Aces Video/Power Pokers, Jacks or Better Video/Power Pokers, all Baccarats, all Craps, Red Dog, Sic Bo, all Progressive Games and all 3 card poker games, do not count towards the turnover requirement for this bonus.​

Fair or not? I think the only reasonable interpretation of those terms is that "All Aces" video poker, and "Jacks or Better" video poker, are restricted, but other video poker games are allowed. The clue here is apparently the small "a" in "all". I have never heard of a category of games called "Aces video poker" before, so it never occured to me that it meant to include all the video poker games that have "Aces" somewhere their name.

Interestingly, they say "We trust that you did not want to abuse our bonus offer on purpose, and you will be granted bonus for your future play if you wish so".

So they don't think I was abusing their bonus, but they still confiscate my winnings simply because they can. So much for the theory that casinos will only invoke such "gotcha" terms for fraudsters/abusers. They were happy to take my first deposit loss, even though I played Aces & Faces.

 

[rainmaker]

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I am not familiar with this casino. Took a quick look and was a bit surprised to see it was a Microgaming casino.

Anyway. The rule you are referring to does not say anything about restricted games in my opinion. It only says that if you play any of these games, then your play do not count towards the turnover requirement (although you are free to play them if you wish).

So my opinion is that the casino can not confiscate your winnings based on the rule you mentioned (I am not familiar with other rules they may have).

 

[deucebag]

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Anyway. The rule you are referring to does not say anything about restricted games in my opinion. It only says that if you play any of these games, then your play do not count towards the turnover requirement (although you are free to play them if you wish).

So my opinion is that the casino can not confiscate your winnings based on the rule you mentioned (I am not familiar with other rules they may have).

A little further down in their terms they state:

Note: If you play on the excluded games (0%) before meeting the playthrough requirements, then you agree that the casino holds the right to void any winnings and bonuses, at our discretion.

 

[vinylweatherman]

More bullshit. They screwed up, and are now trying to claim that the words "all Aces" now has a different meaning to that intended when they made the terms. They banned the two variants "All Aces" and "Jacks or Better", but they are now using "spirit of the bonus" because you simply found the next best VP in the line that they had not yet banned. You also got it wrong, it's 4-UP Deuces Wild, not Aces and Faces

I bet we will see those terms updated soon with Aces and Faces included. When they do, clobber them with a "retrospective application of terms" complaint.

If they are MGS, how come I have not heard of them, especially if they have the fruities

 

[rainmaker]

deucebag: Thanks for additional info about their rules. Then the case is a bit different then what I though based on your original post yes hehe

 

[vinylweatherman]

It's not true MGS, but another of those Quickfire type multi-vendor platforms that carry games from different providers. This one claims it is a new concept, but it has been beaten to it by others. They boast a seamless integrated bonus management policy over all products.

They have a couple of "interesting" rules too

 

[deucebag]

More bullshit. They screwed up, and are now trying to claim that the words "all Aces" now has a different meaning to that intended when they made the terms. They banned the two variants "All Aces" and "Jacks or Better", but they are now using "spirit of the bonus" because you simply found the next best VP in the line that they had not yet banned. You also got it wrong, it's 4-UP Deuces Wild, not Aces and Faces

I bet we will see those terms updated soon with Aces and Faces included. When they do, clobber them with a "retrospective application of terms" complaint.

If they are MGS, how come I have not heard of them, especially if they have the fruities

Thanks for your support. Video poker games only counted 5% against the wagering requirement (aside from the 0% ones), so I didn't exactly choose the game for "easy" playthrough.

 

[rainmaker]

edit.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks for your support. Video poker games only counted 5% against the wagering requirement (aside from the 0% ones), so I didn't exactly choose the game for "easy" playthrough.

That's quite a WR, but they do have those "spirit of the bonus" type terms, so I expect this is what they are really using, but are trying to pretend it is a simple case of playing an excluded game. Playing a 5% weighted game is not against the terms, so they are going to have to come up with another excuse. They ban Blackjack completely, so why not a straight forward ban on all Video Pokers, or even say "slots only" as many casinos now do (watch out for the excluded slots though, even slots players are not safe now).

 

[Nifty29]

That's quite a WR, but they do have those "spirit of the bonus" type terms, so I expect this is what they are really using, but are trying to pretend it is a simple case of playing an excluded game. Playing a 5% weighted game is not against the terms, so they are going to have to come up with another excuse. They ban Blackjack completely, so why not a straight forward ban on all Video Pokers, or even say "slots only" as many casinos now do (watch out for the excluded slots though, even slots players are not safe now).

It's got nothing to do with spirit of the bonus.

It is a clear case of the casino f**king up by not including aces and faces in their banned list, and trying to pull the wool by insisting that by "all Aces video poker" they meant all video poker's with the word "ace" in them, and not just "All Aces" like any intelligent and logical person reading it would think.

Refusing winnings based on the capitalization of one letter smacks of amateur hour. Operators who pull stunts like this need to be called out and put up to the membership and others reading as an example of a casino to avoid like dodgy clams........and the best way to do that is to get them rogued, and the best way to do that is to PAB.

At best it is a case of ambiguous terms being applied unfairly.

At worst it is a case of deliberate theft of legitimate winnings....the operator equivalent of a "fraudster".

Stop posting deucebag and PAB.

 

[deucebag]

Stop posting deucebag and PAB.

They're not accredited and I've PAB'ed before, so I don't think that's an option. I've sent the Casinomeister a PM notifying him of this thread, to see if they can be considered for the rogue pit. Players should be warned of playing there IMO.

 

[Balthazar]

all Aces Video/Power Pokers, Jacks or Better Video/Power Pokers

It's obvious that they were talking about the game All Aces, just like they were talking about the game Jacks or Better. The wording is the exact same. I sincerely hope that the lack of capitalisation won't cost you €1600.

 

[Balthazar]

They're not accredited and I've PAB'ed before, so I don't think that's an option.

I've seen them make exceptions to that policy before. Hopefully they will do it again in this case. Good luck.

 

[petro]

The casino is saying that Aces and Faces VP is restricted.
But, when I read the T&C there is no mention of Aces and Faces being restricted.
The casino is saying that what they are calling "...all Aces Video/Power Pokers" actually means or includes the VP called Aces and Faces.
That's not clear by anyone’s understanding.

I think OP has a case.

 

[Balthazar]

Any news on this? Was OP allowed to PAB?

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

I got bit upset to see this. I found this casino to look like a new great one. I am in contact with their affiliate manager to start promoting their casino. I found their live chat support to be brilliant. And gave very good service on several occasions. When trying them out.
Not managed a withdrawal there from the tests I made.

I have contacted the affiliate manager to get someone to attend this thread. As OP clearly should be paid his winnings.
Before this case has been settled I will not touch them with a finger.

I really hope OP get his winnings.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I got bit upset to see this. I found this casino to look like a new great one. I am in contact with their affiliate manager to start promoting their casino. I found their live chat support to be brilliant. And gave very good service on several occasions. When trying them out.
Not managed a withdrawal there from the tests I made.

I have contacted the affiliate manager to get someone to attend this thread. As OP clearly should be paid his winnings.
Before this case has been settled I will not touch them with a finger.

I really hope OP get his winnings.

What, no more barge poles left

Better have a review of who else you might be thinking of promoting

 

[deucebag]

Any news on this? Was OP allowed to PAB?

No news. I haven't received a reply from my PM to the Casinomeister. I know he's been traveling so I'll give it another go. I don't expect to be allowed to PAB, but I'd like to know if they can be considered for the rogue pit.

 

[maxd]

No news. I haven't received a reply from my PM to the Casinomeister. I know he's been traveling so I'll give it another go. I don't expect to be allowed to PAB, but I'd like to know if they can be considered for the rogue pit.

Well I've only just heard of this. Bryan is on the road, as mentioned, but I'm the PAB guy and I say go for it (check your PMs for further options).

Remember though, read that Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ. Attach Removed (Old not found)

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

What, no more barge poles left

Better have a review of who else you might be thinking of promoting

Yes not good. I just like to try out new casinos. And not a problem to give players a chance if they have a no deposit. I would not recommend anyone to play at a casino unless they are safe. Mainly accredited here at casinomeister.
But if new and still not listed at casinomeister, then will warn players that it being tested

Byt the way. not heard anything back from my affiliate manager contact. So this is not good

 

[deucebag]

Well I've only just heard of this. Bryan is on the road, as mentioned, but I'm the PAB guy and I say go for it (check your PMs for further options).

Thanks Max. I've just submitted my PAB.

 

[maxd]

Thanks Max. I've just submitted my PAB.

Yup, got it. I'll get to it first thing tomorrow.

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Yup, got it. I'll get to it first thing tomorrow.

Nice one Maxd Will be interesting to see what happens in all this.

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Just wanted to update. I have heard back from the affiliate manager. And they are looking this. And will also attend this thread later when this dispute had been settled. So that is good news

 

[maxd]

Our work on the PAB for this case has completed. To make a long story short I found that both parties were at fault in this: the casino for a sloppily written Term and for not being more pro-active in warning the player that his game play had put him in a Terms violation situation; the player for being pointlessly antagonistic toward the casino staff in his attempts to press his case and for overtly using his forum posts to attempt to blackmail the casino.

Given the situation I think that shared guilt should result in a shared settlement: I proposed that the casino should pay the player 50% of the original balance to which they have agreed. €660 had already been paid as returned deposits, they will proceed with the balance owed and have agreed to clarify the applicable Term(s).

The OP is banned for 30 days for deliberately abusing his posting rights in violation of

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1.17 "Exploiting Your Membership".

Since this thread was posted as an overt attempt to coerce the casino I see no reason why that effort should be rewarded. As such I have changed the thread title to better reflect the nature of this case. The original title was "RedRabbit casino confiscates €1600 in winnings".