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Thread: deucebag vs Videoslots

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by deucebag View Post
    I haven't checked whether I ever bet 50% or more of the balance I had in the account at the time, because I don't think it's reasonable to interpret the rule to mean that (it would not be a valid, legally enforcable term), and I don't think Videoslots.com intended it to mean that untill they went over their terms looking for an excuse. Why did they go through the trouble of changing the terms and use the revised terms as an excuse intially? It was only after I showed them my proof that they had changed the terms that they came up with the second excuse.



    It's seems obvious to me that they are dead-set on not paying and will grasp at any excuse.



    The funny thing is that this bonus was pretty bad. 90xbonus and only 50%. With such bad bonuses it shouldn't be necessary to have such extremely restrictive terms as max bet of 10% of bonus or deposit. The bonus is way below average, but the terms are stricter than average. I suspect this casino is another case of an underfunded Mickey Mouse operation that doesn't understand a thing about running a casino.



    I have a screenshot yes, and I emailed them a link to the google cache page (which I also have saved). The google cache page showed the terms as they were a few days aftermy deposit. (Google cache (and other search engine caches) will show the pages as they were when the search engine last crawled the page, which is anywhere from a few hours to days or weeks ago.)
    ...but you took it anyway.

    You must have had some doubts about their integrity as you took the screenshot as though you expected something to go wrong.

    It's a Microgaming Flash casino, and all
    MGS
    casinos have the option to play with Flash. There had to be others offering a similar bonus with only 30xB as
    WR
    , and a more relaxed 25% to 30% of bonus max bet.

    Perhaps you felt the risk was minimal since it was Microgaming, and they don't give a license to "just anyone".

    It seems that
    MGS
    are no longer quite so careful, and that the lower class operations are now able to get hold of
    MGS
    licenses. This is not the first time trust in
    MGS
    has turned out to have been misplaced. We had Golden Lounge pulling similar stunts, and Nedplay taking ages to pay players. It DID turn out that in both cases the casinos were more or less bust, and 32Red took them over. Villento and Minivegas were giving players the runaround, and they then got swallowed up by Casino Rewards.

    It is therefore possible that this casino does not have deep pockets, and that saving on a 3700 payout IS significant for them.

    It is still the wrong way to go about it. It looks like they decided not to pay, and then went through the terms looking for a reason. The approach should be to pay up unless there is a clear reason not to.

    The danger for other players is that if they simply get lucky, they will end up not getting paid through another addition of a term, or different interpretation of the terms already present.

    The fact that they seek to mislead players by displaying the full "safe and fair" seal from eCogra is further evidence that they are doing business in a dishonest manner, and ignoring eCogra's request to remove it now they have been caught out is doing them no favours.

    eCogra meant remove it NOW, not "when I can be arsed to". They edited the site yesterday, so there was an opportunity to remove this seal with little additional effort. The seal displayed tells players that they can take a complaint to eCogra, and that the site is operated to the eGap standards. Neither is true of videoslots (dot) com.
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinylweatherman View Post
    ...but you took it anyway.

    You must have had some doubts about their integrity as you took the screenshot as though you expected something to go wrong.

    It's a Microgaming Flash casino, and all
    MGS
    casinos have the option to play with Flash. There had to be others offering a similar bonus with only 30xB as
    WR
    , and a more relaxed 25% to 30% of bonus max bet.

    Perhaps you felt the risk was minimal since it was Microgaming, and they don't give a license to "just anyone".
    Just to clarify, I didn't take screenshots until after they canceled my withdrawal, and they are of various caches.

    I did not expect problems because I'd had several withdrawals at this place before, plus they were Ecogra accredited (or so I thought).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by deucebag View Post
    Just to clarify, I didn't take screenshots until after they canceled my withdrawal, and they are of various caches.

    I did not expect problems because I'd had several withdrawals at this place before, plus they were Ecogra accredited (or so I thought).
    Maybe you pissed them off with this, so they decided to try it on when faced with paying you yet another chunk.

    If these came from caches, do you have evidence of the dates they were captured, and thus able to prove that the new term was added after you played, even though they first used this term as a reason to confiscate your winnings.

    They DO seem to have changed their story after you sent them evidence suggesting this term was only added after you played. If the other term was good enough to deny your withdrawal, why the need to even add this extra term, let alone do so in a rather clumsy manner.

    If you defeat this new excuse, I can see them rolling out "spirit of the bonus" rather than agreeing to pay.
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinylweatherman View Post
    If these came from caches, do you have evidence of the dates they were captured,
    Yes, these caches have dates. Google (or Bing, Yahoo etc) anything and click on "cache" instead of the main link in the search results and you will get the cache page with date and time at the top. This is what I have saved showing the terms before the change, yet dated 3-4 days after my deposit.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by deucebag View Post
    Yes, these caches have dates. Google (or Bing, Yahoo etc) anything and click on "cache" instead of the main link in the search results and you will get the cache page with date and time at the top. This is what I have saved showing the terms before the change, yet dated 3-4 days after my deposit.
    Is this when they shifted to a new excuse for non payment, a term that does not show in your screenshot, but that exists further up. Surely this term is trumped by the 10% of deposit, since in order to make a substantial bet that would fall foul of this term, it would have to be significantly more than 10% of the deposit. 18 is 9% of the deposit, and although 18% of the bonus, this term was not present. Even this is nowhere near enough to form a substantial part of both deposit and bonus, although "substantial" can mean anything they want it to, and in this case they have decided that 18 credits is "substantial" enough on a 200 deposit and 100 bonus to invoke this term having failed to pass off the 10% of bonus term as having always been there.

    Whatever you had bet, they would probably have found a way for it to violate one of the vague terms, as the problem was not the size of the bet, but the size of the win.

    This is not something I ever expected to see at a Microgaming casino, but it shows just how far things have worsened since 2004 when I started. I used to trust casinos for nothing other than the fact they were Microgaming, and this worked very well. With
    RTG
    and Playtech, they had to have some form of accreditation on a site I trusted before I would even look at the offers and terms, let alone play there. I once mistakenly trusted a site I shouldn't have, but luckily found out that they were heavily promoting the rogues before it was too late. Their "No 1 pick" was Crystal Palace, and half the rest were already in the Meister's rogue pit when I eventually found this site, and had something to compare the other one against.

    I am sure there are sites that list this videoslots bunch as a casino to be trusted, and relying on the fact that being Microgaming, players would believe it is, and that the eCogra seal is real, and the casino is one of the elite few that pass the eCogra inspection.
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

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  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinylweatherman View Post
    Is this when they shifted to a new excuse for non payment, a term that does not show in your screenshot, but that exists further up.
    Yes. I emailed them the link to the Google cache, which at that time showed the terms as they were 4 days after my deposit with the Google time and date at the top. There was no max bet of 10% of bonus in those terms. They went silent for a long time, but after some follow-up emails they finally responded that they were still going to keep my money, but this time based on "majority of available balance" clause.

    Some of you have suggested I
    PAB
    , but according to the rules only your first
    PAB
    can be for a non-Casinomeister-accredited casino.

    Videoslots.com seem to have a lot of Swedish players. Does anyone out there know of any Swedish casino forums? Even if I can't get paid, I think at least people should be warned.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by deucebag View Post
    Yes. I emailed them the link to the Google cache, which at that time showed the terms as they were 4 days after my deposit with the Google time and date at the top. There was no max bet of 10% of bonus in those terms. They went silent for a long time, but after some follow-up emails they finally responded that they were still going to keep my money, but this time based on "majority of available balance" clause.

    Some of you have suggested I
    PAB
    , but according to the rules only your first
    PAB
    can be for a non-Casinomeister-accredited casino.

    Videoslots.com seem to have a lot of Swedish players. Does anyone out there know of any Swedish casino forums? Even if I can't get paid, I think at least people should be warned.
    Even if you cannot
    PAB
    , you should still send a PM to Bryan and Max since this kind of behaviour is worthy of a "casino warning" given that it is coupled with the display of the eCogra "safe and fair" seal, and refusal to remove it even though eCogra have found out and asked them to. This seal is misleading players into believing they are playing at a fully certified eCogra casino, with the ability to take unresolved disputes to mediation via eCogra. They only find out they have been conned when something goes wrong, and eCogra rejects their complaint because the seal is fake. This can be proven, as anyone visiting their site can see the fake seal being displayed, and eCogra will confirm it to be fake. Your allegation is also damning, but needs to be verified by Max or Bryan before they can be declared guilty of this trickery.

    There may well be other players coming here to complain about getting screwed by videoslots, and again getting fooled by the fake eCogra seal.
    Trust me, I'm a weatherman.

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  10. #28
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    ah man, i really get pissed off when i see this kinda BS, i really hope you get your winnings and the casino gets some warnings.

    i found alot of swedish forums, search : svensk spel forum, svensk casino forum.

    good luck mate

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by deucebag View Post
    Videoslots.com seem to have a lot of Swedish players. Does anyone out there know of any Swedish casino forums? Even if I can't get paid, I think at least people should be warned.
    searched little bit and found this one : http://www.spelacasino.se/casinoforu...-Klagom%C3%A5l

    hope it helps

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  13. #30
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    Received a surprising email today from the CEO of Panda Media, Alexander Stevendahl. He has personally looked into my case and they have decided to reinstate my winnings! Just requested a withdrawal for my balance. Hopefully it's smooth sailing from here.

    He also said they're going to correct the Ecogra seal.


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