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Thread: Betfair Casino bonus problem - bogus PAB - bot use

  1. #1
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    Betfair Casino bonus problem - bogus PAB - bot use

    Here's the story:

    On April 23rd I registered at Betfair Casino with a coupon code which entitled me to a 250GBP deposit bonus. I made a deposit of 246 and received a 246 GBP bonus. After clearing the wagering requirement I received a email from betfair support that I had 'abused' the promotion and the bonus had been taken away from my account. Since I have been playing with a lot of big bets (1 bet of 492, 1 bet of 984, and a lot of bets varying from 3 (the majority) till 100) I think it's ridiculous I am being treated here as a 'bonus abuser'.

    I contacted Casinomeister and Betfair representative RedArmy some weeks ago, even though he was helpful I still did not get a satisfying response from Betfair, they gave a bland statement saying I abused their bonus and that I wont get it back.. Betfair Casino sent me this e-mail about this decision:

    "Dear Yvonne,

    Please be advised that following an investigation into your activity in the Betfair Casino, we have concluded that your bets were carried out with the express purpose of abusing the bonus offered.
    This is in accordance to the bonus terms and conditions which stats that "Betfair also reserves the right not to pay any bonus to customers that it suspects to be abusing this promotion."
    Please be advised that you balance reflects your activity regarding your deposits and game play, minus the bonus amount.
    Kind Regards
    Games Verification Team"

    I was quite surprised and disappointed to find out that Betfair had taken away the bonus amount (246GBP) from my balance. Moreover I am quite offended that I was being accused of abusing this bonus. I have risked all my funds twice with 2 big bets and kept on playing with bets of 3, which is also quite risky when you have to play 7500 in total. At the end I kind of lost my patience as it was quite time consuming and ended with bets ranging between 20 and 100. I think therefore that the accusation is ridiculous and totally unfair.

    After talking to 'RedArmy' (from Betfair Marketing I believe) I decided to 'Pitch a Bitch' with maxd; after 2 weeks Betfair gave another statement, this time saying I used a 'bot' to clear my wagering .

    I guess they think that when you deposit money it is not allowed to place bets of 3 pounds (which is the equivalent of 5 euros, which is the usual amount I bet here when I go to the casino) and if you do they tell you you use a 'bot'?! Rather ridiculous.

    Until this will be resolved properly I reccommend noone to register at Betfair Casino, they will treat you as they please and make up invalid arguments for taking away your bonus if you win anything

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yblomm53 View Post
    ...
    Until this will be resolved properly I reccommend noone to register at Betfair Casino, they will treat you as they please and make up invalid arguments for taking away your bonus if you win anything
    Eh? Resolved properly - okay.

    Betfair has pretty much a stellar reputation. I'd be suprised if they did not do their due diligence when investigating your case. They claim you used a bot for seven hours. Bot play is pretty easy to detect. I don't believe they are treating you "as they please". They are treating you like a player who deliberately broke their terms and conditions.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.”

    ~Mark Twain

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    If you believe you are 100% in the right - you didn't use a bot - I would suggest contacting the Malta authorities here:
    http://www.lga.org.mt/lga/home.asp

    They are a little slow, but I'm sure they will look into this.

    And when they resolve this, please come back and tell us what the results were.

    Maltese based products - The Lotteries and Gaming Authority:

    Alternatively, if you have made a complaint to Betfair in relation to one of our Maltese licensed products (for example, Poker, Casino, Games, or Multiples betting) and you feel that Betfair's final decision about your dispute was not dealt with satisfactorily, you can raise any unresolved dispute with the Maltese Lotteries and Gaming Authority by emailing: complaints@lga.org.mt.
    Last edited by Casinomeister; 10th June 2008 at 10:41 PM. Reason: added info
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.”

    ~Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yblomm53 View Post
    Here's the story:

    On April 23rd I registered at Betfair Casino with a coupon code which entitled me to a 250GBP deposit bonus. I made a deposit of 246 and received a 246 GBP bonus. After clearing the wagering requirement I received a email from betfair support that I had 'abused' the promotion and the bonus had been taken away from my account. Since I have been playing with a lot of big bets (1 bet of 492, 1 bet of 984, and a lot of bets varying from 3 (the majority) till 100) I think it's ridiculous I am being treated here as a 'bonus abuser'.

    I contacted Casinomeister and Betfair representative RedArmy some weeks ago, even though he was helpful I still did not get a satisfying response from Betfair, they gave a bland statement saying I abused their bonus and that I wont get it back.. Betfair Casino sent me this e-mail about this decision:

    "Dear Yvonne,

    Please be advised that following an investigation into your activity in the Betfair Casino, we have concluded that your bets were carried out with the express purpose of abusing the bonus offered.
    This is in accordance to the bonus terms and conditions which stats that "Betfair also reserves the right not to pay any bonus to customers that it suspects to be abusing this promotion."
    Please be advised that you balance reflects your activity regarding your deposits and game play, minus the bonus amount.
    Kind Regards
    Games Verification Team"

    I was quite surprised and disappointed to find out that Betfair had taken away the bonus amount (246GBP) from my balance. Moreover I am quite offended that I was being accused of abusing this bonus. I have risked all my funds twice with 2 big bets and kept on playing with bets of 3, which is also quite risky when you have to play 7500 in total. At the end I kind of lost my patience as it was quite time consuming and ended with bets ranging between 20 and 100. I think therefore that the accusation is ridiculous and totally unfair.

    After talking to 'RedArmy' (from Betfair Marketing I believe) I decided to 'Pitch a Bitch' with maxd; after 2 weeks Betfair gave another statement, this time saying I used a 'bot' to clear my wagering .

    I guess they think that when you deposit money it is not allowed to place bets of 3 pounds (which is the equivalent of 5 euros, which is the usual amount I bet here when I go to the casino) and if you do they tell you you use a 'bot'?! Rather ridiculous.

    Until this will be resolved properly I reccommend noone to register at Betfair Casino, they will treat you as they please and make up invalid arguments for taking away your bonus if you win anything
    You havent made it clear whether you used a 'bot'. Actually, what was the amount that you tried to cash out? Do the terms disallow 'bot play'? If it's not disallowed then bonus abuse is too vague a term for the casino to use. Otherwise KK will be the king of bonus abusers which of course he isnt. Maybe Redarmy should come and make things clearer otherwise new players will be afraid to sign up and fall foul of the casino's bonus abuse terms.

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    She already PABd

    The casino's investigation detected "bot" play for seven hours.

    This breaches their terms and conditions:

    If you use multiple browsers or attempt to manipulate or ascertain
    information concerning the Casino software code or are involved in
    collusion, you will forfeit all money and be deactivated as a player.
    All wagers must be placed through the user interface provided on the
    Casino. Any wagering through other means, including the use of a "robot"
    player, is strictly forbidden without the express consent of Betfair.

    The Service Providers reserve the right to prohibit any player from
    participating in any and all games, and may, where situations warrant,
    freeze the chips of any player suspected of cheating in any form. The
    Service Providers further reserve the right to restrict seating and/or
    to prohibit players from playing in a particular game, including
    restricting two or more players from playing together at the same game.

    Betfair also reserves the right not to pay the first deposit bonus to
    any customer that it suspects to be abusing this promotion.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.”

    ~Mark Twain

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casinomeister View Post
    She already PABd

    The casino's investigation detected "bot" play for seven hours.

    This breaches their terms and conditions:

    This is really disturbing news from a gaming company I regard as supreme and a standout amongst the driftwood on the usual online gaming fare.

    On this Forum alone (never mind anywhere else) there are multiple complaints that Betfair are unable to furnish play history. Their technology does not extend to the reproduction of a players hand history.

    In the wake of this technological break-down comes allegations of 'bot' play.

    It must be said from the outset there is not a speck of evidence that the player used a 'bot'. A company that can not reproduce play history on demand is unlikely to possess enabled technical sophistication to detect 'bot' play on a whim.

    But let's assume the player was using a 'bot' for arguments sake.

    A 'bot' can not alter the game. A 'bot' can not extend an advantage over any game that is not already inherent within the rules of the casino game. A 'bot' can not generically render an increase in the player's chance of winning ANY hand.

    Further, BetFair activley encourage and promote the use of 'Bot play' on their 'peer to peer' gaming interface and have made sophisticated tools to enable such 'bot' participation.

    You see it is okay in BetFair's eyes for one player to make use of a 'bot' to play against another player (as long as BetFair collect it's commission). BetFair will even give you the tools (API) to make it happen.

    But woe betide if a player who chances upon a little mechanical assistance to enhance his play at that dreadfully slow, cumbersome and frequently disconnecting Chartwell software that BetFair insist on using.

    Hypocrisy at it's finest.

    To crown it all disaffected players are invited to take their issues to none other than that paragon of licensing virtue the Malteese LGA. Oh brother!!

  7. #7
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    Casino regs

    I dont involve myself in any serious way with casinos because they seem to have the same basic principles and ideology of the online bingo sites. MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY is the common theme among the gaming venues.
    When you sign up as a member, you must agree to their omnipotent powers or just not participate at all as an active member.
    So, in all reality, it does no good at all appealing to any third party faction, unless they hold some kind of negotiating powers or "ace" up the sleeve.
    Most of the " site approval emblems" by gaming commissions and monitoring groups are simply money making ventures that are symbiotic in nature...you give me money or promotion and I will say your site is very approved and fair.
    If they were any good at all as structured monitors and regulation minders, there would be absolutely NO doubt whether sites have houseplayers, bots or over the top house edged rules. If they had their eyes on, a players use of an auto device or bot should be detected when it is occurring...NOT when a withdrawal is requested..as with bingo sites common multiple account rule advantage.
    it is almost an open invitation for players to "get over" on a site. A dare, if you will.After all, sites get over on players on a daily and continuing basis as standard operating procedure.

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    I'm pretty sure that Chartwell does record gameplay.

    The bottom line is that the casino detected bot play, which is clearly forbidden in their terms and conditions. Every company has a right to protect itself from players who use bots, no matter the reason. If they don't want that play, and this is explicit in their terms and conditions, then don't use bots.

    I don't allow members to sign up using bots in this forum. This is one of the reasons that the sign-up process is moderated; each sign-up is reviewed. If I had the forum wide open for anyone to join, the numbers would be way out of whack. I delete 3-5 bogus sign-ups a day - all bots or potential spammers. It's my right to make this rule.

    Betfair (and every casino that I know) has the same rule. They don't want bot play. If they detect bot play - they'll close the account.

    If this player wants to protest this, the best course of action is to contact the casino's licensing jurisdiction. There is an official process available for solving these problems; it's up to players to utilize these agencies and make them earn their pay.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.”

    ~Mark Twain

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casinomeister View Post
    I'm pretty sure that Chartwell does record gameplay.
    If that's the case why have they failed to send me my play history that occured on 20th May 2008? After exchanging more than 10 e-mails with customer support, the only answer I got was that it is "too much effort" for them. It is a serious player security issue if the player is not able to review the results he has received. How can a casino that fails to provide such basic information be accredited here?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jufo View Post
    If that's the case why have they failed to send me my play history that occured on 20th May 2008? After exchanging more than 10 e-mails with customer support, the only answer I got was that it is "too much effort" for them. It is a serious player security issue if the player is not able to review the results he has received. How can a casino that fails to provide such basic information be accredited here?
    Do you have a copy of that email? I'd like to see it. Thanks!
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.”

    ~Mark Twain

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