Omni Casino Complaint: Hot Seat promotion issue

[Kezman]

Here it goes, tactfully and truthfully.

A casino from the title refused to follow through on their offer; Hot Seat promotion.
I did as it says, I didn't get what it said I'd get. It says play 1250 per day, you get an appropriate amount at the end of the month. I did do so, and they didn't do as they said they will.


Relevant data which I've gathered from the emails I've gotten (once I asked what's up with that, why hasn't it been credited) would be something like this.
They state I "played what's enough", implying that it's not right and not enough.
Fact is, I've played way over that. Doubling it on occasion. Stopping when I'd have a losing session.
And even if that was not the case, THEY are the ones who said what'll be enough. If they don't think that's enough, well, that's up to them to amend.


They state I played blackjack, "one of the best games".
Well it is also one of the most popular ones. Why wouldn't people play it?
Fact is, nothing anywhere prohibits it. It is perfectly allowed as per the terms. THEY are the ones who explicitly allow that.
Except that apparently they don't (?)


The rest were some generalities, just to leave a bitter taste.
They said "I was calculated". Weird. Especially coming from a casino, all they do are calculations.
And, I got the spirit of the promotion thrown in my face, too. Whatever that means.


They offer 1/5th of what was promised (!) and even call THAT "goodwill" on their part. They weren't complaining when I was losing money playing.


I adhered to the terms they left there, they for some reason aren't. We had 2-3 emails thrown back and forth since; last I heard form them was something like 10 days ago.


This is a headsup to all others who might want to play there and saw that promo. The bait was 500. The switch is 105, and they even get to call themselves goodwilled and you this and that while doing it.

 

[rainmaker]

.

Hi there!

I am not familiar with this promotion at all, but just wanted to mention that Omni does have a rep on this forum you can contact:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

 

[vinylweatherman]

If they are relying on "spirit of the promotions", go straight to the PAB service if you don't get anywhere with the rep.

It is their error for not specifying which games are not included when it comes to playing enough to qualify. If they only wanted this promo to apply to slots, they should have said so.

 

[Nifty29]

Terms state:


Omni Casino will take note and void any "hot seat points" if it is suspected a player(s) is placing low risk wagers and or competing wagers at games (such as roulette, craps, sic bo, Baccarat, etc) in order to meet the requirement. Management's decision in any suspected cases is final.

Video Poker play does NOT count.

Management reserves the right to refuse Hot Seat points for any reason it determines. Management's decision in all cases of suspected team play, bonus abusers, advantage players and or playing schemes is final and at our sole discretion.


Looks like they have it covered.

If you weren't prepared to accept these terms, you should not have played.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Terms state:


Omni Casino will take note and void any "hot seat points" if it is suspected a player(s) is placing low risk wagers and or competing wagers at games (such as roulette, craps, sic bo, Baccarat, etc) in order to meet the requirement. Management's decision in any suspected cases is final.

Video Poker play does NOT count.

Management reserves the right to refuse Hot Seat points for any reason it determines. Management's decision in all cases of suspected team play, bonus abusers, advantage players and or playing schemes is final and at our sole discretion.


Looks like they have it covered.

If you weren't prepared to accept these terms, you should not have played.

They may have it covered, but such vague "spirit of the bonus" terms are not considered acceptable here. Simply playing Blackjack normally does NOT violate the term regarding "low risk" or "competing" wagers. The second is merely a vague "F U Clause", not a proper term that a player can break or abide by.

I was under the impression that Omni was accredited, and hence above this kind of Playtech bullshit.

Why not be explicit, and say "Video Poker, Blackjack, and Baccarat play does not count", it is, after all, what they mean.

 

[aceking123]

hi kezman try out rep here first >>>>https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/ . there a good group ive played there for many years never had any real problems with htem , but mail elliott & he can help out with the problem or clear up what the problem is )

 

[Kezman]

Thanks for the ideas! I have just contacted the rep you mentioned. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[OC Elliott]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for sending me a private message Kezman regarding your experience of Omni Casino’s Hot Seat promotion.

Please allow us time investigate this in full and get back to you promptly. (Meaning today or early tomorrow at the latest)

In the meantime, I thank you for your patience and would also like to thank fellow Casinomeister members for their input in this thread.

Warm Regards,

OC Elliott.

 

[Casinomeister]

They may have it covered, but such vague "spirit of the bonus" terms are not considered acceptable here. Simply playing Blackjack normally does NOT violate the term regarding "low risk" or "competing" wagers. The second is merely a vague "F U Clause", not a proper term that a player can break or abide by.

I was under the impression that Omni was accredited, and hence above this kind of Playtech bullshit.

Why not be explicit, and say "Video Poker, Blackjack, and Baccarat play does not count", it is, after all, what they mean.

I think you might be confused. This is not a bonus that a person used to generate winnings and then it's all confiscated because he didn't play by the "spirit of the bonus". This is not the case. This is about accumulating loyalty points via action at the casino. The player is not owed any money, he just wants his free chips. The casino has informed him that his playing style has disqualified him for that. It's in their terms (as Nifty pointed out) - it's not an FU clause, it's the rules that players need to abide by when earning bonus points.

@Kezman

Were you aware of these terms? Maybe you missed them. If you feel they were hidden, please let me or the casino know and hopefully they can make them more visible.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I think you might be confused. This is not a bonus that a person used to generate winnings and then it's all confiscated because he didn't play by the "spirit of the bonus". This is not the case. This is about accumulating loyalty points via action at the casino. The player is not owed any money, he just wants his free chips. The casino has informed him that his playing style has disqualified him for that. It's in their terms (as Nifty pointed out) - it's not an FU clause, it's the rules that players need to abide by when earning bonus points.

@Kezman

Were you aware of these terms? Maybe you missed them. If you feel they were hidden, please let me or the casino know and hopefully they can make them more visible.

The actual terms were posted, and the only specific prohibition was "Video Poker does not count". The rest was really about "spirit of play", which although not "spirit of the bonus" in the ordinary sense, is much the same animal where management can use their discresion to decide that player A "has been calculating" whereas player B who played the same games has not.

The promotion is a challenge to earn loyalty points, and that's what the OP did. There is no obligation for them to play "loose" rather than "best strategy" provided they don't expect points earned on Video Poker to count. The casino allowed play on Blackjack to contribute, but only so long as the player was not "calculating" in their approach. This is too vague, as players with any sense would play to their best abilities. Far from being "calculating", the OP played around double the requirement needed to achive the free chip, and of course risked their own funds in doing so.

If casinos run "wager challenge" type promos, they shouldn't be surprised when players prioritise achieving the highest score in the most efficient manner rather than playing as they might when no such challenge is in effect.

Do we see Slotsmeister players getting disqualified for making hundereds of thousands of spins around the required 10p average on the grounds that this is calculated play aimed to top the leaderboard, rather than "regular" play in the casino?

 

[Casinomeister]

Omni Casino will take note and void any "hot seat points" if it is suspected a player(s) is placing low risk wagers and or competing wagers at games (such as roulette, craps, sic bo, Baccarat, etc) in order to meet the requirement.

The term pretty much flat out denies a player making certain kinds of bets; the term "spirit" is not used here. I can let Omni address this, but I still think it's a thunderstorm in a tea cup. These are loyalty points we're discussing, not winnings derived from a bonus.

I'm still under the impression that the player failed to read the terms and conditions. Either that or there is more to this than what the player had lead us to believe. If this was truly a problem, where are the other complaints?

 

[Kezman]

Hi all,

I have read the rules before playing. I fail to see which specific rule would be troublesome in my case as to warrant tha even being mentioned. I might ask Nifty the same question as I have no idea why he even pasted that, because it is obvious I have respected all the rules (except the FU clause, obivously).

I have no idea what "certain type of bets" would be prohibited by these rules. I was betting from 20 to 100 eur per hand if I recall correctly. I played blackjack. No clue what the issue there could possibly be. I am not convinced that can even be attempted to be made an issue.


A deal is a deal IMO, whether it's prewager or postwager. They are the ones who laid out the promo, not me.


If you imply I am "leading you to believe" anything, why not check it out with the casino or with the rep before talking like that. I have, as the first post said, told the whole story tactfully and thouroughly. I have no intention - nor the ability lol - to start up any kind of a storm, I can only state what is going on.

 

[Kezman]

The actual terms were posted, and the only specific prohibition was "Video Poker does not count". The rest was really about "spirit of play", which although not "spirit of the bonus" in the ordinary sense, is much the same animal where management can use their discresion to decide that player A "has been calculating" whereas player B who played the same games has not.

The promotion is a challenge to earn loyalty points, and that's what the OP did. There is no obligation for them to play "loose" rather than "best strategy" provided they don't expect points earned on Video Poker to count. The casino allowed play on Blackjack to contribute, but only so long as the player was not "calculating" in their approach. This is too vague, as players with any sense would play to their best abilities. Far from being "calculating", the OP played around double the requirement needed to achive the free chip, and of course risked their own funds in doing so.

I was actually playing quite loose - not that it should matter anyway, IMO, if they don't want bets lower than x they should (and can easily!) state so directly. That is what would make the most sense to me.

I have doubled the daily req on plenty of occasions - not all or even most of them, I do stop when I'm losing, but certainly a good number of times I was up there.

It might also be worth noting that I went from 1000 eur up to 600 eur down (roughly, I am speaking from memory here).


Aaaaaand, I dislike the treatment I've received there after all is said and done.


Edit - I have just gotten the same email as the first one when I asked what's up from them again for some reason. Yep, the only thing listed there as being an issue comes down to the spirit of the promotion. I can paste it here if anyone is interested and if that type of thing would be interesting (or okay, or helpful).

 

[Casinomeister]

...If you imply I am "leading you to believe" anything, why not check it out with the casino or with the rep before talking like that...

I would use caution on how you address your host. It's not your place to tell me how to speak. I'm providing you with a platform to voice your complaint - it's a public platform so we have the liberty to debate any aspect of it.

So you are saying that they have no reason to believe that you are nothing but a recreational player. Is that right? According to the terms that you have read and understood, advantage play may be exempt from this promotion. Like Nifty stated earlier, you should not have played this promo.

Unless of course you are a recreational player and you were caught in a bait and switch trap. I guess the casino can clarify this more.

 

[just play]

So you are saying that they have no reason to believe that you are nothing but a recreational player. Is that right? According to the terms that you have read and understood, advantage play may be exempt from this promotion.

I have been here for years and years and still don't understand "recreational" player to "advantage" player?

How can one have an advantage while gambling in a casino? I don't understand.

Could you explain so a naive person like me can understand? Especially the part..."advantage play may be exempt from this promotion".

 

[OC Elliott]

Hi Kezmen,

I have inquired about this matter for you. I have been made aware that the matter was discussed with you in a detailed letter issued October 9, 2012 explaining the amount of Hot Seat points that were issued to you and a lengthy explanation as to why. Terms to the HotSeat promotion are clearly stated underneath the promotional content.

I appreciate that you may not be satisfied with the amount of Hot Seat Points that were issued to you, however please be reminded that Omni Casino does withhold the right to void Hot Seat points within the promotional terms and the casino has enforced the right to void several points in your case based on your play.

While you disagree with the casino's determination and final decision, we have thoroughly explained and reviewed your case several times with the same conclusion. As the matter has been thoroughly reviewed and responded in detail to you several times (and again here), our position remains.

Omni Casino considers this matter closed. If you still feel our decision is unsatisfactory, please feel free to fill out a Link Outdated / Removed.

Yours Sincerely,

OC Elliott.

 

[bsilva028]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for sending me a private message Kezman regarding your experience of Omni Casino’s Hot Seat promotion.

Please allow us time investigate this in full and get back to you promptly. (Meaning today or early tomorrow at the latest)

In the meantime, I thank you for your patience and would also like to thank fellow Casinomeister members for their input in this thread.

Warm Regards,

OC Elliott.

sthill waiting by a contact from the support related to the thread that i sent in private message, more than 1 month

 

[akrus88]

Oh my. Should not they simply exlude BJ from the promotion. Or maybe but something like this?
" You are not allowed to play BJ as good as you can, or up to your talent if you want take part to this promotion. Instead you should intentionally play badly and take stubid chances while playing, in that case you are wellcome to the promotion."

If one knows how to play in the way house edge is minimum, one should not be allowed to?? This is what they mean and by that clase confisticate winnings (yes post wager bonus winnings, but still winnings). Understand if bot is being used, but if not ...
As how I can see this kind of promotion it says "show us your talent, can you do it " it screams to try out your talent with BJ. I bet there are ones that loose a bit trying their talents..

Just can not understand how casino is acting fair. Happily others are wiser than me and can .

To the end. Most suprised not more complaints about that promotion

 

[Casinomeister]

...

To the end. Most suprised not more complaints about that promotion

I spoke with the casino over the phone about this and I believe they mentioned that there have been two complaints in the past two years about this promotion. This one from Kezman, and one from another player in Romania. Out of probably several thousands of players using this promo, that's not many complaints.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Kezmen,

I have inquired about this matter for you. I have been made aware that the matter was discussed with you in a detailed letter issued October 9, 2012 explaining the amount of Hot Seat points that were issued to you and a lengthy explanation as to why. Terms to the HotSeat promotion are clearly stated underneath the promotional content.

I appreciate that you may not be satisfied with the amount of Hot Seat Points that were issued to you, however please be reminded that Omni Casino does withhold the right to void Hot Seat points within the promotional terms and the casino has enforced the right to void several points in your case based on your play.

While you disagree with the casino's determination and final decision, we have thoroughly explained and reviewed your case several times with the same conclusion. As the matter has been thoroughly reviewed and responded in detail to you several times (and again here), our position remains.

Omni Casino considers this matter closed. If you still feel our decision is unsatisfactory, please feel free to fill out a Link Outdated / Removed.

Yours Sincerely,

OC Elliott.

From the OP's side of the story, it seems that all he did was play Blackjack, and his bet range was hardly "grinding on minimum bet". The term does not ban those listed games, but "low risk or competing wagers". This would cover things like covering red and black on the same Roulette spin, or betting on both player and banker in Bacarrat. I see no room for such a term to extend to playing Blackjack with "perfect" strategy which appears to be the reason the points have been voided in these cases.

If I had taken part in this promo, I would have played perfect strategy Blackjack to maximise the comp points earned at the lowest rate of loss. I would have seen nothing wrong with doing this with those terms, and I am sure many other players would have done the same. I cannot therefore believe this is the full story from either side.

I have had no problems using Blackjack play in "wager challenge" contests to get a good score, and it is up to the casino to weight or exclude such games. Jackpot Factory and Red Flush HAVE indeed reduced or excluded the contributions to leaderboard points made per $ wagered on these games, they have NOT retrospectively voided points at the end of the contest.

The only difference here is that this is a personal target challenge, earn X loyalty points for a free chip of Y. The OP earned X, even 2X loyalty points, and played "normal" bets on Blackjack, not "low risk" constructions on Roulette and Bacarrat. The OP also seems to have played this promo many times before, and is familiar with the rules. I expect the problem here is that the Casino has been paying out the chip in the past, but has now secretly shifted the goalposts and told the OP his latest session of the SAME type of play is no longer deemed to be allowed. The terms have not changed, the casino has changed the way it interprets them. To me, this is a "spirit of the promotion" issue, and one applied retrospectively.

It would have been better to tell the OP BEFORE the start of the latest run of this event that they were no longer eligible to take part, and would remain ineligible unless they "demonstrated a willingness to play outside of such events". The bait was that the player was NOT told in advance that the style of play that had been eligible before was no longer going to be considered eligible, and so the bait was taken again as the results had usually been good. The switch is waiting till AFTER the OP had played before telling him his play was no longer considered eligible.

Had he been told beforehand, the OP may not have bothered, and instead taken his chances elsewhere.

Casinos seem to forget that setting a target means the competitive streak comes out among players, and thus their playing style may switch from their usual to a more calculating one.

If the free chip is merely a "play bonus" and not cashable, I fail to see the point in the OP being so determined to exchange real cash (even the best games have a house edge) for a phantom bonus chip with a WR.

I also find it odd that Video Poker is banned outright as a qualifying game, yet Blackjack is not mentioned, and Bacarrat is allowed providing no "low risk" bets are made. You CANNOT construct a "low risk" bet in Blackjack, as you can only bet on the player, which would explain why Blackjack is not mentioned in the "low risk wager" term.

 

[Casinomeister]

FYI. We are waiting for the PAB to be submitted since we've been told that there is more to the story than what the player has posted here.

 

[akrus88]

.. since we've been told that there is more to the story than what the player has posted here.

This is exactly what I was coing to write.

If this promotion has been running for a long time on such a popular casino. But only two complaints. This really favours the casino and gives a hint there might be something else to OPs story..since OP and one another are only ones amongs thousands and thousands (I assume) having proplem with omni not honoring the promotion.

I believe there must be some another reason for voiding winnings, then being too good of a player (happily I have never had that problem..)

 

[Casinomeister]

...I believe there must be some another reason for voiding winnings, then being too good of a player (happily I have never had that problem..)

I believe there were no winnings voided - only loyalty points.

 

[akrus88]

I believe there were no winnings voided - only loyalty points.

I understood "play over this amount/day and at the end of the mont you will get 500€" as a post wager bonus winnings? But that sayed. I have been playing only few years, so I quess others (as you) might have a upper hand to me, when it comes to experience and undestanding promotions.. That is simply how I would understand the promotion.

 

[Kezman]

So you are saying that they have no reason to believe that you are nothing but a recreational player. Is that right?

No, that is not what I am saying.
I am saying that I have broke no actual, gameplay rule presented, did my part of the promo and they didn't do theirs.


The whole "you are not a recreational player" issue I do not how to address as I have no idea what exactly would that mean or how that term is defined. It is my opinion they should state what exactly that means, in gameplay sense, for it to have merit.
Therefore I focus on the actual gameplay instructions.

According to the terms that you have read and understood, advantage play may be exempt from this promotion.

I have respected every term that was telling me how to play.
They are the ones writing the terms, and they can obviously be as specific and as prohibitive as they'd like. So it seems like this would be a license to do the switch mentioned, under the "You did do as told, but we simply don't like your play" reasoning - which is what happened, in fact.


I have played allowed games only and I have described by gameplay truthfully. If what I did is advantage play and is therefore prohibited, well... then that's just the way it is. But that would mean you could break no terms and still end up shorthanded.

From the OP's side of the story, it seems that all he did was play Blackjack, and his bet range was hardly "grinding on minimum bet". The term does not ban those listed games, but "low risk or competing wagers". This would cover things like covering red and black on the same Roulette spin, or betting on both player and banker in Bacarrat. I see no room for such a term to extend to playing Blackjack with "perfect" strategy which appears to be the reason the points have been voided in these cases.

If I had taken part in this promo, I would have played perfect strategy Blackjack to maximise the comp points earned at the lowest rate of loss. I would have seen nothing wrong with doing this with those terms, and I am sure many other players would have done the same. I cannot therefore believe this is the full story from either side.

I have given a full story, truthfully and tactfully; everything I thought would be relevant.
I will paste the email I've gotten from them, too.

I have had no problems using Blackjack play in "wager challenge" contests to get a good score, and it is up to the casino to weight or exclude such games. Jackpot Factory and Red Flush HAVE indeed reduced or excluded the contributions to leaderboard points made per $ wagered on these games, they have NOT retrospectively voided points at the end of the contest.

The only difference here is that this is a personal target challenge, earn X loyalty points for a free chip of Y. The OP earned X, even 2X loyalty points, and played "normal" bets on Blackjack, not "low risk" constructions on Roulette and Bacarrat. The OP also seems to have played this promo many times before, and is familiar with the rules. I expect the problem here is that the Casino has been paying out the chip in the past, but has now secretly shifted the goalposts and told the OP his latest session of the SAME type of play is no longer deemed to be allowed.

No, not even that. I only did the promo this one month. There weren't any months before that where I was getting the promo credited. I didn't get it even once.

The terms have not changed, the casino has changed the way it interprets them. To me, this is a "spirit of the promotion" issue, and one applied retrospectively.

Yes.

Hi Kezmen,

I have inquired about this matter for you. I have been made aware that the matter was discussed with you in a detailed letter issued October 9, 2012 explaining the amount of Hot Seat points that were issued to you and a lengthy explanation as to why. Terms to the HotSeat promotion are clearly stated underneath the promotional content.

I appreciate that you may not be satisfied with the amount of Hot Seat Points that were issued to you, however please be reminded that Omni Casino does withhold the right to void Hot Seat points within the promotional terms and the casino has enforced the right to void several points in your case based on your play.

While you disagree with the casino's determination and final decision, we have thoroughly explained and reviewed your case several times with the same conclusion. As the matter has been thoroughly reviewed and responded in detail to you several times (and again here), our position remains.

Omni Casino considers this matter closed. If you still feel our decision is unsatisfactory, please feel free to fill out a Link Outdated / Removed.

Yours Sincerely,

OC Elliott.

Thanks.


To be more specific, as the general descriptions of "detailed thourough letters" can be vague, this was the reasoning given to me, pasted from the email I've gotten.

Players must play a minimum any five (5) of thirty (31) gaming days between XXX 1 and 31, 2012 to win a prize. A gaming day is defined as a unique day on the calendar. A minimum of $/€/£1,250 in “total wagers” placed per gaming day is required to earn one (1) “Hot seat point.” Omni Casino will take note and void any “hot seat points” if it is suspected a player(s) is placing low risk wagers and or competing wagers at games (such as roulette, craps, sic bo, Baccarat, etc) in order to meet the requirement.

Management’s decision in any suspected cases is final. Video Poker play does NOT count.

Management reserves the right to refuse Hot Seat points for any reason it determines.
Management’s decision in all cases of suspected team play, bonus abusers, advantage players and or playing schemes is final and at our sole discretion
Kresimir, we do consider your Blackjack play to be "low risk" wagering by playing the game to intentionally to meet (almost exactly) the Hot Seat levels (almost every day) and then exiting the casino. As you know Blackjack is one of the very best games to play in the casino. Therefore, as this is your game of choice (and it's a great choice...stick with it), we have nonetheless determined that your play on the game was a clear playing scheme for the Hot Seat promotion which removes the entire spirit of this extra promotion to our members. We feel that your near exacting levels of very controlled and designed daily wagers is a clear indication to us to take advantage of a promotion we wish to offer something extra to our members.

As such, we have within the promotional terms rights, voided many of the Hot Seat points per our terms.