WilliamHill are being difficult to my girlfriend

Hello,

So my girlfriend decided to open an account with WilliamHill to play on the slots and has put a total of £130 in the account perfectly fine with no restrictions. However, when she won and got lucky enough to withdraw it wouldn't let her. Turns out there are restrictions on her account. No problem, she sent them all necessary documents on the chat. And this is were it gets messy.

They repeatedly keep telling her the pictures are not high quality enough. First they say the corners of the picture have to be in the picture. Then around 5 different pictures they keep telling her the pictures are blurry, despite her being a photographer and using a high quality camera. Then they reject her scanned documents saying too pixelly. And after hours of frustration had to take a picture of her holding documents to which she did. Now she hasn't even heard anything from them in a day and they are supposed to respond within an hour to the email.

This is incredibly frustrating for her. And I personally think they are stalling to get ready not to pay her. She has had confirmation off of her Family's barrister that the documents were clear and crisp. This is incredibly rogue of them and I know they aren't accredited here, but do you know what our options are if they refuse to pay her?

Thanks for reading.

Surely the family's barrister should be able to tell you the answer to your question

I suggest you try the live chat again or pick up the phone and call them and ask them what the hold up is and take it from there.

interlog said:

Surely the family's barrister should be able to tell you the answer to your question

I suggest you try the live chat again or pick up the phone and call them and ask them what the hold up is and take it from there.

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Certainly if matters get extremely difficult for her I suspect she will ask her family's barrister for legal advice. However, are they legally obliged to not pay up? She put her own money into it so it's not a no deposit bonus. I helped her contact WilliamHill Chat to which they say she has to wait to expect a response from their security team.

asparkes15 said:

...She put her own money into it so it's not a no deposit bonus...

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Did she take a bonus with her deposit though? (I appreciate this is in the 'Non-Bonus Issues' thread - just double-checking).

If yes, there could be delays to check she met with play-through requirements, didn't breach any of the T's & C's (e.g. wager size & games played), etc... If no bonus was involved then I think you mean it was a no bonus deposit. (It may be semantics, but believe me, there's a whole world of difference between the two statements when it comes to online casinos & cashouts).

As she is a new player then the security teams can be over-zealous when it comes to verifying documentation. I know it can be frustrating, but I'm pretty sure it will work-out in the end (albeit slower than you would have liked).

Congrats to your girlfriend on her win & please keep us posted on progress.

funnymunny said:

Did she take a bonus with her deposit though? (I appreciate this is in the 'Non-Bonus Issues' thread - just double-checking).

If yes, there could be delays to check she met with play-through requirements, didn't breach any of the T's & C's (e.g. wager size & games played), etc... If no bonus was involved then I think you mean it was a no bonus deposit. (It may be semantics, but believe me, there's a whole world of difference between the two statements when it comes to online casinos & cashouts).

As she is a new player then the security teams can be over-zealous when it comes to verifying documentation. I know it can be frustrating, but I'm pretty sure it will work-out in the end (albeit slower than you would have liked).

Congrats to your girlfriend on her win & please keep us posted on progress.

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No bonuses. She put £130 of her own money in over the course of 2 weeks. She got lucky and won £300 on her last game there. They are now giving her the silent treatment. Looking at Trust-Pilot this seems to be common. Here is a snippet. Bear in mind this convo was the 5th time attempted at submitting documents.

Anthony D.: Do you have the documents now?
Jade Anderson: certainly shall i upload them?
Anthony D.: Yes please.
File attachment upload has started.
File attachment upload has started.
The file bank letter1.jpg (504.61KB) was received.
Anthony D.: Thanks for waiting. As per checking here this is a scanned copy. It would be appreciated if you could take a picture of the documents using your camera phone or digital camera and send the documents making every effort to ensure that it is in jpeg format, is clearly visible and is one of the valid forms that we accept.
Jade Anderson: no problem just a second
Anthony D.: Thank you.
File attachment upload has started.
The file 11830306_10153540858554310_1652645431_n.jpg (60.65KB) was received.
File attachment upload has started.
The file 11844121_10153540859204310_2099216953_n.jpg (50.64KB) was received.
Anthony D.: The passport is good.
File attachment upload has started.
The file second.jpg (63.04KB) was received.
Anthony D.: Thanks. #
Jade Anderson: np
Anthony D.: Is there any way you can make it clearer? My apology since if I zoom it I cannot read the details.
Jade Anderson: i understand just a second
Anthony D.: Thank you.
Anthony D.: I appreciate that.
File attachment upload has started.
The file third.jpg (109.27KB) was received.
Anthony D.: Thank you.
Jade Anderson: np
Anthony D.: I will contact our Security team now. Kindly stay on the line for a few minutes.
Jade Anderson: thank you
Anthony D.: You're welcome.
Anthony D.: Thanks for waiting. I'm done speaking to our Security team.
Anthony D.: They have advise me that you need to send us a clear photo of the documents. And as well you need to send us a picture of you holding those documents. My apology about this. You can send that via email at documents@willhill.com please use the registered email address on the account and kindly include your username on the email. Please make sure its photo captured and clear as they will not accept the proof of address that you sent. We will update your account once we receive it.

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And now, they said that the picture sent is not good enough lol. Funny there is an option to Deposit but there was not an option to Withdraw instead it gives her an error when trying to. This is rogue behavior in my eyes. I use PaddyPower myself and the withdrawal is there in minutes.

The thing is now my girlfriend has given up trying to get her money which I assume this is what they wanted to happen. However, I cant stand to see this sort of behavior from a well known UK gambling company.

Most of those files seem pretty small, 60.65KB, 50.64KB, 63.04KB, 109.27KB.

My driver's license scan that I use for verification is about 600KB.

My utility bill scan is about 1.8 MB.

Noticed the file sizes too. Most cell phone cameras have a default setting for sharing via computer, use high(photo) quality instead.

Indeed on that specific chat it was. She had previously sent them pictures of high MB but they had told her the file sizes were too big for them to take. So she had to convert them to a smaller size. Then she sent all these documents again through email in their original size. So, I don't understand what they want from her.

asparkes15 said:

Indeed on that specific chat it was. She had previously sent them pictures of high MB but they had told her the file sizes were too big for them to take. So she had to convert them to a smaller size. Then she sent all these documents again through email in their original size. So, I don't understand what they want from her.

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Heres the plan, get the high quality pictures they couldn't take to begin with and now your using an email to send them to another email you should have no problem attaching gigantic picture sizes if need be. Secondly, as your gf is a photographer I would advise her to use the highest resolution she has available on her best camera and then there will be no need for another repeat scenario.

This is nothing to worry about imo and unless theres something else a miss I wouldn't worry as they will pay her once verified. I use them alot for sports

All the best

asparkes15 said:

Indeed on that specific chat it was. She had previously sent them pictures of high MB but they had told her the file sizes were too big for them to take. So she had to convert them to a smaller size. Then she sent all these documents again through email in their original size. So, I don't understand what they want from her.

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If they want high quality photos, they should invest in the necessary facilities to receive them. Compressing a good photo so that it can squeeze through a size restriction is bound to reduce the quality, and it can end up making the files useless for verification.

The request for a picture of her holding her document has nothing to do with the quality issue, so it does look like there is something else in play here that they are not disclosing, so the "blurred documents" claim may well be a tactic on their part so that they can look into other matters.

For a UK player in a UK site like WH, and for a paltry £300, it isn't even necessary for them to do this level of KYC before paying out, and even if they did need to, UK players should be verified electronically rather than with emailed documents unless the win is very substantial.

It sounds like they had already flagged her account as suspect long before she won and triggered this documentation request, so they are now doing an enhanced KYC for a mere £300. It also explains the request for an additional photo of her holding the documents, it's the equivalent to asking her to get them notarised, although with a family barrister this shouldn't be a problem.

Getting a clear document to a casino is trickier than it sounds, and being a photographer isn't necessarily an advantage as her original offerings were "too clear" as the files were of such high quality that they were too big to make it through.

Aim for around 1 Mb per JPEG, and try sending each one in a separate email. The limit is per email, not per file, so 4 files of 1Mb would fail as "too big" because the email server will see it as a single 4Mb "file" and probably reject it.

Scanners can be a problem as they tend to shave off the corners of documents printed on plain white paper, and also they will default to "document mode" of 150dpi when you really want 300dpi or "photo" mode. I saw my scanner wrecking my ID documents when I let it "automatically determine" it's settings based on the pre scan, and so I had to manually set it to 300dpi photo mode, and then stretch the "container" so that it included the whole piece of paper, rather than just the printed content and a small margin, before saving the image as JPEG.

Put a payed utility bill in an enveloppe with a copy of photo id front and back, buy a stamp and mail it the old fashioned way...

For me its more difficult to actually get a real utility bill. Everything is payed automatically. Only once a year i get a real paper with last years balance

William Hill are on almost every high street in the U.K. is it possible for the O.P.'s girlfriend to bring the documents to her nearest William Hill shop and have them verified this way? I know Paddy Power and Ladbrokes used to do this but not sure if they do it any more. Just a suggestion

She has sent the Hi-Res photographs which again she was told they were too big and to compress. She also went into local branch whom couldn't help her with verification. Looking at the complaints on TrustPilot it appears they do this to many people. She tried every possible avenue available, phone, document submitting, local branch and other correspondence. Unfortunately she has given up on it due to the aggravation and vows not to gamble again because of it.

Still I think it's unfair, and it has alerted me on the kind of ridiculous tactics they will use to withhold money.

How much did she win?

This sounds so weird... Why would you give up on money rightfully yours... I am not trying to suggest anything here, but it just seems weird..

If it were me, by this point, I would be finding the email addresses of some kind of supervisor, or the CEO and sending my ID to them, threatening to go to the papers...

There are often complaints on here, but ID is something almost all casinos ask for, I do not think it is something they should be causing you massive issues over.

Failing that, I would drive to their head office in London, take myself and my ID and charge them my petrol too.

Casino2014man said:

How much did she win?

This sounds so weird... Why would you give up on money rightfully yours... I am not trying to suggest anything here, but it just seems weird..

If it were me, by this point, I would be finding the email addresses of some kind of supervisor, or the CEO and sending my ID to them, threatening to go to the papers...

There are often complaints on here, but ID is something almost all casinos ask for, I do not think it is something they should be causing you massive issues over.

Failing that, I would drive to their head office in London, take myself and my ID and charge them my petrol too.

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It is odd.

I have no idea why they are not accepting any of her identification but looking at their TrustPilot reviews, it looks like many other people are having the same struggle. What I find hilarious is that no matter how high quality or detailed the documents sent to them are, they always send out the "it's not good enough" response.

It's clear to me that they are simply doing this to save money. No idea why for a measly £300. And although my girlfriend has give up on her winnings she's looking into legal proceedings via her family to see how she can get her initial deposits back.

Here are other people saying similar things:

"If you try and withdraw they will continually reject your documents for no good reason and keep asking for more documents. You get fed up with them after a while and give up."

AND

"After i send them my documents (Perfect pictures of my ID card and Bill)
All start with asking me to send a picture of me holding my ID card... OK
But after that they wanted me to send them a picture of me holding my proof of address (my bill) and what for? To reject my bill with no REASON.
OK i visit my bank and take a bank statement to send at those crappy site william hill. After one day they wanted from me to send a picture of ME holding my bank statement and what for? Really? Only to reject the bank statement... They take a joke with clients with that "we want picture of you holding yours all documents only to REJECT them....

I`m really sorry that i lost my time with this crappy bookie...
My point is don`t waste your time."

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That's 2 similar problem in the space of a few days.

I've looked at the way they word things to her and they literally think they are untouchable. They believe they can get away with cutting corners and inadequacy. With them being so well known here in the UK, it makes you wonder if you can trust the majority of casinos. Personally, I'll stick to the accredited list.

There are clearly serious failings on the part of WH if players can't even transmit their documents to them for verification. They are rejecting them because they can't access them, rather than because they have an issue with them.

This is a case of inadequate KYC procedures, rather than dodgy practice, but it will damage the brand if there are significant numbers of players encountering the same problems. If they want high quality images, they have to accept that these will be large files. If they want smaller files, they have to accept that image quality will suffer, possibly to the point where they have to reject those files that are small enough for them to see.

This is the kind of issue that should be taken up with the appointed mediator as WH can't seem to get a handle on the problem. It can also come under the consumer protection laws as whilst the terms themselves are fine, the procedure is not a fair one as it's almost impossible to fine tune the document to be small enough to get through whilst being of high enough quality to be accepted, it is therefore an "unfair business practice" to have a procedure that isn't suitable for the requirements.

This fiasco does then make it appear that it's all a stalling tactic, rather than a genuine case of ineptness of procedure, as one would presume that WH would have the latest cutting edge KYC procedures so would not run into problems with what has now become bog standard levels of resolution for digital cameras and smart phones.

What might actually work here is to get hold of a legacy phone from many years ago when the standard was just a couple of megapixels. These files WILL get through if sent one at a time on separate emails. The current offerings can be from 5 megapixels to over 10, and these files will never get through the antiquated "send documents by email" systems without significant post processing of the image, which is where quality can suffer to the extent that the resulting image is "blurry".

A suggestion for Hi Res images is to upload them to dropbox and send them the link, that way they should have no issues with the size, once you are approved you can either delete the images or just keep them for other casinos.

If they won't accept Dropbox then you have further ammo against them as in you have tried multiple avenues to comply and they have refused the effort.

Don't give up though as it just encourages them to carry on with these rogue practices.

I think it is probably easier to get a player owed a relatively small sum of money to just walk away from it. If it was thousands, you would be complaining to adjudicating bodies, your MP, maybe the papers. No newspaper will feel Woman Delayed $300 Win an attention grabbing headline.

William Hill's "talk to the hand" attitude has always appalled me.

I hope you can persuade your girlfriend to keep fighting for her money. One last thing you could suggest to the casino is to send colour photocopies by snail mail. Then they can scan them and store them digitally for their records, or use them as additional confirmation of your "blurry" images.