Betatcasino complaint

A few months back I had some issues surrounding the Live Casino roulette table on betatcasino. Their roulette tables are run via Micro Gaming and betatcasino sent my complaints to them. My complaints surrounded my placing bets and then my winning, but the winnings were not then being added to my balance. I would win and even my stake wasn't even refunded to me. There were also issues surrounding the site pausing.

Betatcasino essentially said that it was out of their hands given that they weren't the game provider. They refunded me my £5 stake on one occasion where MicroGaming admitted there was a mistake, but not the £180 I would have otherwise have won.

MicroGaming stated that I was the only person experiencing the problem and that it was an issue at my end. They said that it was due to a slow broadband connection. I knew that this was nonsense as I have fast fibre optic broadband and the engineer who installed stated that it was likely the fastest connection in the whole town given that I'm right next to the exchange.

In total, I lost several hundred pounds because of these technical faults. This irked, but I let it slide because I'd managed to offset them through the winnings that I did receive.

Betatcasino suggested that I stop using their Live Casino option as they weren't prepared to take responsibility for any problems I might experience. I eventually stopped playing at betatcasino because of this and I was a little underwhelmed with their response.

I began playing at another casino and have been happy with their service, however, they were doing a major upgrade and so was unable to use their site for a period. I thus began using the live casino at betatcasino. All was well for a while at betatcasino, however, yesterday there was a number of repeated glitches. These manifested in the form of my placing a bet and the bet not registering. It usually takes a second or two normally for the bet to register at MicroGaming and it is not instantaneous, but it does normally register. Yesterday, I placed the bet usually at least ten seconds before the timer ended, but it would not register. Again, this happened a number of times, two of which I'd placed £2 bets on the roulette table which should have meant a win of £72 has the bet registered. I got some screengrabs of this, which I post a link to below.

Betatcasino are still investigating this and have escalated it to Micro Gaming, and it will be interesting to see what the outcome is this time around. I was going to wait until they have completed their investigation, but thought I was post it here regardless.

It is a little perplexing how they can get such a high rating on this site yet not have handled the above complaint in what I would consider to be a satisfactory manner.

This is the screenshots uploaded to an online gallery. Click on each image for a larger view. The last two shots shows how I should have won £72, but didn't because the bet didn't register properly despite placing it well in advance. The AnotherExample series of images just shows and example of how the timer and how long in advance I was trying to place the bet.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

The pics won't really make sense unless you're used to playing on Micro Gaming, so I'll provide an explanation for each one.

In the pic "Another Example Look At Timers" you can see that the timer is reading 12 seconds and that I tried place the bet, which you can see from the token on the table. The bet readout shows +1, which is what it shows when the bet is about to be registered. It turns to 1 when the bet is actually locked in.

In the pic "Another Example Bet Not Registers", this shows the timer for the above bet to have reached zero, but the bet is still showing as +1, which as I said means that it is pending and not locked in.

In the pic "Another Example After The Bets", this just shows that at least the money wasn't taken from my balance. I wouldn't have won in this example.

In the pic "Initial Bet", this shows that I'd tried to place a bet, but it did not register. This pic was actually the first time this happened, which annoyingly was also a time that I would have won.

In the pic, "Immediately After Initial Bet Initial Bet" this shows that the ball landed on the number I had bet on.

Per the forum rules, I messaged the rep with a link to this complaint. Unsure how long it typically takes for at least some sort of an acknowledgement , but I've still not had a response, not have I heard anything from the customer service department of the casino. I fully expect that what they'll say, as they said previously, is that they're waiting to hear from Micro Gaming and that it's ultimately not their problem. Of course, it will be phrased from diplomatically, but that will be the core of what they will say. Please understand that I am not trying to be combative, just that I gave this casino another try after a previously negative experience, but the same thing has happened again and their response has been much the same as it was when it happened previously.

PM

You have sent me a PM explaining that you have made a public complaint, which defeats the purpose of having a forum representative helping you resovle an issue you may feel has left you faced with a closed door.

In the PM you have not listed your username - kindly do so, in order for me to be able to investigate the issue and your correspondence with our team.

Thank you

Igor

BETAT said:

You have sent me a PM explaining that you have made a public complaint, which defeats the purpose of having a forum representative helping you resovle an issue you may feel has left you faced with a closed door.

In the PM you have not listed your username - kindly do so, in order for me to be able to investigate the issue and your correspondence with our team.

Thank you

Igor

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Thank you for the response. Per your request, I have messaged you my username.

I don't entirely understand your above post, but to clarify, the reason I have made a public complaint is that all of my previous complaints have, I feel, been short shrift by your team. I believe I have made this aspect of my grievance clear in my initial post. Still, I look forward to this being resolved in a timeous and mutually satisfactory manner.

To clarify my post: it would have been far more prudent to contact me directly, prior to creating a public complaint, if you feel the Customer support team has failed you.

I have found your case and will go through all the correspondence. Please allow me some time to do so as there seems to be a tremendous amount of correspondence to go through.

Kind regards

Igor

I have received the following response from betatcasino.

"We have received a response from MicroGaming (MG) following your recent issue with the LiveCasino system. Following an in-depth investigation, MG have found that the reported issue is occurring when you are playing on two tables simultaneously. Each time you are on one table and then proceed to select a second table, the video stream for the current table is disconnecting as the system can only maintain one video stream at a time. When this happens, your client (computer/connection) is not refreshing or staying updated at a fast enough rate when toggling between the two, causing the issue to occur. An example of when you have both tables open can be seen in the following screenshot, which MG have taken directly from your gameplay: Outdated URL (Invalid)

They have also noted, as you have stated earlier yourself, that you are playing regular roulette tables as well as turbo roulette tables. Something to note is that the turbo table is a faster table and allows for a betting time of 20 seconds, which is less than the 30 seconds allowed on the regular table. Therefore if there is any lag or latency when refreshing the tables it would reflect with a higher frequency on the turbo table, which is something you have previously stated you experienced.

In conclusion they have not found any anomalies in their LiveCasino system and their advice is to play one table at a time as it appears that you are unable to stay updated on your client on both tables, causing you to only intermittently have enough time to bet on the turbo table.

I hope this resolves the issues you have been experiencing, however I can be contacted LiveChat or via email should you require any further assistance and I will be more than happy to help."

I may be missing something, but they seem to be saying that it is ultimately a problem at my end. Again, this is the precisely the response I expected from them.

Once again, I would like to point out that I have very fast broadband. I do not, given this, see how it can be a problem at my end, but as I said, this is what I expected them to say.

I am interested in any advice or input from other forum users on here as I have read both on here and elsewhere of people experiencing similar problems with the Micro Gaming site.

aidenaiden said:

I have received the following response from betatcasino.

"We have received a response from MicroGaming (MG) following your recent issue with the LiveCasino system. Following an in-depth investigation, MG have found that the reported issue is occurring when you are playing on two tables simultaneously. Each time you are on one table and then proceed to select a second table, the video stream for the current table is disconnecting as the system can only maintain one video stream at a time. When this happens, your client (computer/connection) is not refreshing or staying updated at a fast enough rate when toggling between the two, causing the issue to occur. An example of when you have both tables open can be seen in the following screenshot, which MG have taken directly from your gameplay: Outdated URL (Invalid)

They have also noted, as you have stated earlier yourself, that you are playing regular roulette tables as well as turbo roulette tables. Something to note is that the turbo table is a faster table and allows for a betting time of 20 seconds, which is less than the 30 seconds allowed on the regular table. Therefore if there is any lag or latency when refreshing the tables it would reflect with a higher frequency on the turbo table, which is something you have previously stated you experienced.

In conclusion they have not found any anomalies in their LiveCasino system and their advice is to play one table at a time as it appears that you are unable to stay updated on your client on both tables, causing you to only intermittently have enough time to bet on the turbo table.

I hope this resolves the issues you have been experiencing, however I can be contacted LiveChat or via email should you require any further assistance and I will be more than happy to help."

I may be missing something, but they seem to be saying that it is ultimately a problem at my end. Again, this is the precisely the response I expected from them.

Once again, I would like to point out that I have very fast broadband. I do not, given this, see how it can be a problem at my end, but as I said, this is what I expected them to say.

I am interested in any advice or input from other forum users on here as I have read both on here and elsewhere of people experiencing similar problems with the Micro Gaming site.

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Your broadband is not likely to be the only factor here. I'd imagine your.computer (browser, plugins, etc) cache some of this meaning that the issues have occurred before you see them.

The potential for caching and prioritisation of tasks on a computer is hideously complex SK I'd have thought following their advice would be wise.

You could try multiple browsers at once but you may still see prioritisation at higher levels of your system which may be a factor.

Even.using another computer on the same connection may fail as your broadband will prioritise data being uploaded and downloaded.

Ultimately, these problems may well be at your end and entirely out of your control. Similarly, you can't really expect a casino to be able to resolve matter such as these.

aidenaiden said:

I have received the following response from betatcasino.

"We have received a response from MicroGaming (MG) following your recent issue with the LiveCasino system. Following an in-depth investigation, MG have found that the reported issue is occurring when you are playing on two tables simultaneously. Each time you are on one table and then proceed to select a second table, the video stream for the current table is disconnecting as the system can only maintain one video stream at a time. When this happens, your client (computer/connection) is not refreshing or staying updated at a fast enough rate when toggling between the two, causing the issue to occur. An example of when you have both tables open can be seen in the following screenshot, which MG have taken directly from your gameplay: Outdated URL (Invalid)

They have also noted, as you have stated earlier yourself, that you are playing regular roulette tables as well as turbo roulette tables. Something to note is that the turbo table is a faster table and allows for a betting time of 20 seconds, which is less than the 30 seconds allowed on the regular table. Therefore if there is any lag or latency when refreshing the tables it would reflect with a higher frequency on the turbo table, which is something you have previously stated you experienced.

In conclusion they have not found any anomalies in their LiveCasino system and their advice is to play one table at a time as it appears that you are unable to stay updated on your client on both tables, causing you to only intermittently have enough time to bet on the turbo table.

I hope this resolves the issues you have been experiencing, however I can be contacted LiveChat or via email should you require any further assistance and I will be more than happy to help."

I may be missing something, but they seem to be saying that it is ultimately a problem at my end. Again, this is the precisely the response I expected from them.

Once again, I would like to point out that I have very fast broadband. I do not, given this, see how it can be a problem at my end, but as I said, this is what I expected them to say.

I am interested in any advice or input from other forum users on here as I have read both on here and elsewhere of people experiencing similar problems with the Micro Gaming site.

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Hi aidenaiden,

I've spoken to the Microgaming technical team at length regarding the problem you are experiencing, both on the phone as well as through their ticketing system.

I understand that you are frustrated as this issue appears to have been dragging on for a while and believe me, I have certainly made known the level of your dissatisfaction with their live games so far. They told me that they have gone through all the rounds in question and they are adamant that the issue appears to be happening when you are running more than one table simultaneously. If you could assist me with confirming that the issue is only occurring when you have more than one table running, then I would at least be able to narrow it down for them.

Microgaming informed me that they are not seeing any errors on their database which could have been the source of the problem, and that none of the other players who were playing on the table with you concurrently have experienced any problems - so this is definitely an isolated issue which makes it all the much harder for them to crack. They mentioned that it may be a latency related issue and I informed them that you are running high performance broadband, however they continue to stress that the latency/lag could be anywhere between you and the closest video server location which varies depending on the location as it is CDN based. Again, they are saying that no other players across the whole Microgaming multiplayer live games system are experiencing this problem.

I would love to solve this issue for you aa, I really would, and we are doing everything we possibly can to get to the bottom of it. Unfortunately we are sometimes powerless when technical problems arise between a third party and a client, meaning we end up taking up the role of messenger as we relay communication between both parties while offering our feedback and thoughts to try and help troubleshoot the problem.

Microgaming strongly feel that this issue may be stemming from the running of multiple tables simultaneously. If you can give me your feedback on this I would be able to update the ticket with them and hopefully we can move a step closer to getting to the bottom of the problem.

Thanks,
Karl

My problem with understanding and accepting the explanation given by MircoGaming is that I've not experienced this sort of problem previously, be it with regards to a game with an online casino or with any other piece of online software. I'm also reasonably tech savvy, and I just don't entirely accept the explanation given. Indeed, the explanation given is ultimately tantamount to saying, and with the greatest respect both to your own casino as well as to MicroGaming as a company, "This is complicated and there could be a million and one reasons that you've been experiencing these problems".

I can understand a delay in my bet registering of a few seconds, but often the bet has not registered even when I've tried placing it well in advance of ten seconds before the timer expired. As I said, I've not had this problem with other casinos, even when running several tables simultaneously, but you've placed me in the position, as I thought you would, of saying that the issue is at my end and that you're not responsible for it, and there is really very little that I can do about it.

Regarding whether the problem has manifested itself when I have only had the one table open, I cannot recall. When it happened last I definitely had the two tables open.

The previous problem I experienced with my winnings not being added on my balance from memory did occur when only playing the one table, but that was a separate issue and, again, one which only I was experiencing.

Based on my reading of the situation, there is very little that can be done at this point in order to progress it further, at least in any constructive fashion. You are saying, if I'm correct, that ultimately you are not responsible given that you utilise a third party to provide your Live casino service, and that the most you can do is to serve as a messenger between myself and MicroGaming, who are categorically saying they are not to blame. This leaves me many hundred pounds out of pocket with few real avenues for redress. It was partly my own fault as I should have expected problems would arise with the Live casino somewhere along the line, even though there were no issues whatsoever when I initially restarted using the function. This is how I expected the situation to be resolved, should that really be the word, but I still thank you for making the effort to examine the matter and for submitting your responses above.

Hi aa,

The effort was gladly put in on our part and as Karl said previously, for all desire we have to see your issue through, we are simply now relaying the same message between Microgaming and yourself.

I'm sincerely sorry for the frustration this has caused you and i want to thank you for your patience and effort you've shown in trying to resolve this with us.

Kind regards

Igor

Another reason why I believe it to be the MicroGaming software at fault and not anything at my end, is that I've found their software to have quite a few bugs in it. It also hogs more than its share of system memory on my computer and when I briefly used it over at another major casino, I found, as I find at betatcasino, that it is prone to lag, even when the video quality is turned down to low. Again, please note that I have not experienced any other instances of lagging like this, except when using one or two streaming sites who are known to have these issues. It is interesting to note that the other casino that I've just referred to has now dropped MicroGaming in favour of another service provider. The third party it has gone with I should point out I have used extensively and not once found it to have any of the problems that I've encountered with MicroGaming. I am confident that I will be informed that I have the only person ever to have experienced these problems. In terms of the number of people who have informed you at betatcasino of these problems, you may find that many have encountered them and simply either stopped using the function or left your site entirely without informing you. Typically, and as this entire thread is testament to, complaining is often a fool's errand gets you nowhere save for occupying energy that could be expended elsewhere.

I've every confidence that you feel that I am a problem customer, but I have raised these problems with you not only in my own personal interests, but also so that you might seek to attend to and resole them yourselves and possibly not lose customers because of it. It is though up to you how you choose to receive what I have said and how you act upon it, though you would appear to be handing the blame over to someone else, as I've said repeatedly above.

I had many of problems when used to play at this casino and there sister,

Agreed MG needs to fix up sharpish, There are errors on most sites,

But just because the timers still say you have 10 seconds left, The live feed may be abit out, So when placing a bet with a few seconds left than infact it could be all ready spinning at there end, Hense why bets not placed, Again this could be a number of reasons that have been pointed out,

Its funny how when there is ever a problem at sites than out of all the millions that play than you the only one to encounter the problem Than you come on to such sites and find out that infact other people are getting the same problems, & it feels like as soon as problem is out in the open something gets done and finally some sort of answer, Despite all the emails thats been sent and getting told porkies

The reason I raised this matter on this forum specifically, besides casinomeister being one of the main gambling sites, is because it was through this site that I actually found and elected to play on betatcasino, not least because betatcasino it was one of the highest rated and praised on this site.

The customer service at betatcasino, however, I have found lacking. There is always someone on the Live Chat feature, which can't be said for a number of other sites, even the larger ones, and the customer service agents are invariably polite and professional, and always tell me that they will investigate my concerns promptly and thoroughly. But there is this constant feeling that they are avoiding responsibility for the problems by saying that it's not their problem and that they can only serve as an intermediary between myself and MicroGaming.

In direct contrast to this attitude, let me give you an example of some customer service I received a while ago that did not concern a casino. A product I had bought developed a problem, so I phoned up the maker and explained what had happened. I was told to send the item back, the component that had broken would be immediately replaced and it would then be sent back to me. There was no blaming the matter on the manufacturer's own supplier of the problem component. They could have said "Well, we've contacted out supplier and they tell us that whilst there was a problem with the component, it wasn't their fault and that it was likely a problem at the customer's end. Our supplier also said that whilst you, the customer, weren't using the product incorrectly, there are a million and one things that can go wrong with the component, and it's not the supplier's problem. All we, the manufacturer, can really do is to contact our supplier and it's really not our responsibility, despite making the product and being the one's who directly sold it to you."

I give the above example to try and illustrate my sense of frustration regarding this matter. There is a direct disconnect by the supposed claim that betatcasino is a "totally excellent casino" and my own experience of them when matters go wrong. The site is otherwise nicely designed and a pleasure to use, but the Live Casino needs some attention as does their attitude towards handling problems that develop with services provided by a third party.

As I said, I have used various other online gambling sites and other sites that use live feeds and this is the only instance of this problem that I have encountered. There is a problem with the MicroGaming software and I am not, despite their claims, the only one to have experienced this.

Am I missing something with all this though? Am I actually playing with betatcasino when I use the Live Casino option or am I somehow contracting with MicroGaming? My apologies should I have completely missed something with all of this. Also, should anyone else have experienced problems with MicroGaming and specifically with betatcasino's Live Casino, then I would be interested to know your experience of this.

aidenaiden said:

The reason I raised this matter on this forum specifically, besides casinomeister being one of the main gambling sites, is because it was through this site that I actually found and elected to play on betatcasino, not least because betatcasino it was one of the highest rated and praised on this site.

The customer service at betatcasino, however, I have found lacking. There is always someone on the Live Chat feature, which can't be said for a number of other sites, even the larger ones, and the customer service agents are invariably polite and professional, and always tell me that they will investigate my concerns promptly and thoroughly. But there is this constant feeling that they are avoiding responsibility for the problems by saying that it's not their problem and that they can only serve as an intermediary between myself and MicroGaming.

In direct contrast to this attitude, let me give you an example of some customer service I received a while ago that did not concern a casino. A product I had bought developed a problem, so I phoned up the maker and explained what had happened. I was told to send the item back, the component that had broken would be immediately replaced and it would then be sent back to me. There was no blaming the matter on the manufacturer's own supplier of the problem component. They could have said "Well, we've contacted out supplier and they tell us that whilst there was a problem with the component, it wasn't their fault and that it was likely a problem at the customer's end. Our supplier also said that whilst you, the customer, weren't using the product incorrectly, there are a million and one things that can go wrong with the component, and it's not the supplier's problem. All we, the manufacturer, can really do is to contact our supplier and it's really not our responsibility, despite making the product and being the one's who directly sold it to you."

I give the above example to try and illustrate my sense of frustration regarding this matter. There is a direct disconnect by the supposed claim that betatcasino is a "totally excellent casino" and my own experience of them when matters go wrong. The site is otherwise nicely designed and a pleasure to use, but the Live Casino needs some attention as does their attitude towards handling problems that develop with services provided by a third party.

As I said, I have used various other online gambling sites and other sites that use live feeds and this is the only instance of this problem that I have encountered. There is a problem with the MicroGaming software and I am not, despite their claims, the only one to have experienced this.

Am I missing something with all this though? Am I actually playing with betatcasino when I use the Live Casino option or am I somehow contracting with MicroGaming? My apologies should I have completely missed something with all of this. Also, should anyone else have experienced problems with MicroGaming and specifically with betatcasino's Live Casino, then I would be interested to know your experience of this.

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That is called a manufacurers liability and is law in most countries.

Bet-AT neither produced the games, nor altered them enough to be able to call them their own, which then would become their liability... hence it is indeed out of their control.

They are just the front skin of the casino games and hence provide the games for you to bet, spin etc. but are supplied and fully controlled by Microgaming or any other supplier. Anything goes wrong it has to be investigated by Microgaming. Nothing Bet-AT can change on that one.

I think you made your point, the guys from Bet-AT answered here in the forum and explained in full detail what it was. What else do you expect them to do? Time to let this rest please.

Thank you for that response. You've rather made my point for me though, I feel. I am well aware of consumer rights legislation in the UK, both as it applies to the sale of goods as well as to the provision of services. I am, however, substantially less clear as to the precise level of protection afforded me when utilising an online casino. Even having done a quick internet search, which usually will offer up some sort of quick a dirty explanation or other, I'm unclear. Were betatcasino to claim they've no responsibility in the present situation, leaving aside the actual merits of my dispute with them, and to then suggest that my beef is actually with their subcontractor, they would be on shaky ground were they within the UK. But perhaps your knowledge of all this is superior to my own, and in that instance I am happy to defer to you on this point.

Having said all that, I will as you suggest leave this now. As you've said, and as I've said, their provider has conducted their investigation and concluded that the problem is at my end and there is little else to be done. Whilst I disagree with what they have said and how it has been handled, I am, for what it is worth, sympathetic with the position that betatcasino are in, but only up to a point. I have also, repeatedly, pointed out what I believe to be the strong points in their approach to customer service, as they are always helpful. Oddly, that is part of the reason I have stuck with them, even though no satisfactory resolution to my problem seems to be achieved. Thank you to the betatcasino reps for taking the time to respond to this thread, again.

it isn't a individual problem i've seen strange stuff on micro gaming live games not just at bet-at , i would how ever point out there a great casino with really good reps & all my dealing from cs upto igor have been very well handled as . i don't gamble much any longer i still have 5 accounts to where if i would like to take the plunge bet-at is one of them. ive cut back since feb this year down to maybe two deposits a week & small deposits . but i still have the best accounts with the best casinos in the game .

i understand how frustrating it is i've made bets that have not been accepted but i've also made bets when i would of lost but due to other reasons i didn't lose a thing ( not accepted ) ,it seems to be a delay thing in my book sometimes it runs perfect but other times there does seem to be a bug or something. i dont think its down to our connection though , i see its pointed out multi table in the thread .

well i've never played mutli table so can clearly rule that out on my side, i tend not to play speed roulette either as i like time to place my bets ,i try to click before it get to ten seconds , as ive said i know what your saying because it has happened to me aswell , even with screen shots it wouldnt show , maybe it would be better to do away with confirm bet & let the system do it automatically , less chance of problems , even on RNG sometimes the spin goes on & on & on , no different from slots whilst RNG is having a server connection problem.

its a grey area & to be honest i agree with you it does seem something with micro gaming , playtech, evolution etc etc doesn't seem to get this problem

anyway hope this helps )