Non-Bonus Complaint Notarized ID ...Is it normal after 6 withdraws?

carsten · Mar 11, 2015

Hi all...

I am new to casinomeister...I am actually new to online casino world as well...started for about one month ago...tried about 20 different sites..just for fun...then one day i got an email from one casino giving me some no deposit bonusses...I said okk...one more chance to this casino...the day after i used this no-deposit bonus, i deposit like 30 euros get nice bonus...and volaaa...i had after nine hours playing 6000 euros...withdraw 4k..no problem...kept continue to playing...quite lucky..2.,3.,4.,5. withdraw...in one month i deposit 2k and withdraw 6k...but suddenly they now require Notarized ID for the last withdraw of 1500 euro....

I dont want to give any names or adress..just curious...because I am not complaining for now..

I sendt documentation today, (to Philipine!!!) Is it normal ? They will get it within one week..let see what happens..

Is this process normal? Why ? What else can they find?

Carsten!

catapultaudio · Mar 11, 2015

As you mentioned you've sent the documents to eh Phillipines I think its a safe bet your dealing with a Playtech casino - whilst a lot of them pull these stunts from time to time, the one I hear it most about is undoubtedly the "Winner" group of casinos. They do pay out normally if the documents are in order, but I still wouldn't go through all the hassle personally - you have so many big names operating playtechs eg Coral, Gala, Ladbrokes, William Hill, Betfred, Paddy Power .. your VERY unlikely to get such treatment from these except in the most suspicious and exceptional circumstances - as opposed to Winner who will try it on rather than pay out a couple of grand here and there!

dunover · Mar 11, 2015

carsten said:
Hi all...

I am new to casinomeister...I am actually new to online casino world as well...started for about one month ago...tried about 20 different sites..just for fun...then one day i got an email from one casino giving me some no deposit bonusses...I said okk...one more chance to this casino...the day after i used this no-deposit bonus, i deposit like 30 euros get nice bonus...and volaaa...i had after nine hours playing 6000 euros...withdraw 4k..no problem...kept continue to playing...quite lucky..2.,3.,4.,5. withdraw...in one month i deposit 2k and withdraw 6k...but suddenly they now require Notarized ID for the last withdraw of 1500 euro....

I dont want to give any names or adress..just curious...because I am not complaining for now..

I sendt documentation today, (to Philipine!!!) Is it normal ? They will get it within one week..let see what happens..

Is this process normal? Why ? What else can they find?

Carsten!

No, this is NOT usual and we've heard all this BS many times before and I don't need to guess far that you've won at a Playtech casino (as stated above) and probably one of the smaller ones that also have the vile rogue term meaning 10k a month cash-out limits even if you win a progressive!! :mad:

Believe it or not there was even a case on here where a player had to do this Philippines BS at Vernons concerning 42k winnings even though he was from the UK and Vernons are a UK company.

The reason is simple - they do not need this notarized stuff, but unfortunately many PT sites use this appalling tactic when players win too much and they know it induces negative 'what's the point?' feelings in that player who sees a large barrier in the form of weeks of delay to his withdrawal. So, in many cases he'll spunk it back after losing patience and close his account. You've simply hit the threshold of profit at which they obviously want to avoid paying, but do it underhandedly.

Do as they ask, do not reverse it and when you eventually get you money remember to play at large Playtechs funded by the bookies' firms like Paddy Power, Ladbrokes, BoyleSports etc.

Read this - Vernons especially are notorious for this, Fly have done it and several others. It's extremely rare for non-Playtech sites to do this, as most have access or purchase credit checks and use databases to KYC players and therefore only need the basic docs submissions to confirm them.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/vernons-casino-withholding-money.48953/?t=48953

carsten · Mar 11, 2015

Closed self my accounts already..

I have already closed my accounts..wrote them that I wont play at their casino(s) (they have also a sister casino) until they processes my withdraw...

From the country I live there is no access to big UK casinos..that is why I choosed them...
and I actually search and google these two casinos..they have a very high points...and somehow "recommended"... did not search enough...

PankkiRikki · Mar 11, 2015

Its a bit stupid that u cant send photos or scanned copies from the notarized docs.. Noo snail mail..

carsten · Mar 11, 2015

PankkiRikki said:
Its a bit stupid that u cant send photos or scanned copies from the notarized docs.. Noo snail mail..

I dont know lets see what they say...

dunover · Mar 11, 2015

Right, the casino in question is accredited here but the rep hasn't been in for over a month and the OP has tried contacting him.

With that in mind, I would advise the OP to PAB. If he's waited reasonable time for a reply then he's got no choice, even though the casino hasn't actually broken a term.

Max could then establish whether there is any real concern about the player's ID or other genuine issue on the casino's behalf (they've paid him several times already!) or whether they're just being plain cussed.

I hate seeing unnecessary PABs and wasting of Max's time as that is why there are reps here, but if they are no-show.... :confused:

PankkiRikki · Mar 11, 2015

Omni & Fly? Or do we must sush from the casinos?

carsten · Mar 11, 2015

dunover said:
Right, the casino in question is accredited here but the rep hasn't been in for over a month and the OP has tried contacting him.

With that in mind, I would advise the OP to PAB. If he's waited reasonable time for a reply then he's got no choice, even though the casino hasn't actually broken a term.

Max could then establish whether there is any real concern about the player's ID or other genuine issue on the casino's behalf (they've paid him several times already!) or whether they're just being plain cussed.

I hate seeing unnecessary PABs and wasting of Max's time as that is why there are reps here, but if they are no-show....

Thank you for the post! (even I dont know what OP and PAB is, I guess OP is me and PAB is a kind of complain??)

carsten · Mar 11, 2015

PankkiRikki said:
Omni & Fly? Or do we must sush from the casinos?

I wont give a name now...but your guess is not wrong...

Finn · Mar 11, 2015

dunover said:
Do as they ask, do not reverse it and when you eventually get you money remember to play at large Playtechs funded by the bookies' firms like Paddy Power, Ladbrokes, BoyleSports etc.

December 2014

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...he-bombardment-of-pointless-promotions.65365/

dunover said:
Haven't played at Ladyboy's for years, and I'm glad reading this.

In addition Ladbrokes got the Casinomeister 2014 Fall From Grace award

https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2014/

I assume adding Ladbrokes on that list was an accident and you meant to list bet365 or other some other reputable bookmaker that still has a solid online casino.

Anyways, my favorite Playtech casino is bet365, in addition to Playtech slots, they also have Microgaming, WMS, NetEnt, AshGaming, etc, in total something like 750-800 different slots and games, too many Playtech casinos are Playtech-only casinos.

Googobucs · Mar 11, 2015

carsten said:
I wont give a name now...but your guess is not wrong...

If this is an accredited casino here then you should send the rep a PM (private message)
here is a link to the rep
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/35301/
Give them a few days to respond. Just because the rep has not logged in does not mean they are not around. They could be on vacation or not have any messages to respond to.
If they do not respond to you then you can file a PAB (pitch a bitch).
You can read all the information about the service here.
Be sure to read everything completely especially the part about stop posting.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

I would no expect to see any accredited casino asking you to send documents to the Philippines without REALLY good reason. And some random audit is not a REALLY good reason.

maxd · Mar 12, 2015

Bryan has asked the rep to step in. That should get the ball rolling.

If that doesn't produce the desired result the OP ("Original Poster") should feel free to proceed to the next step, submitting a Pitch-A-Bitch (PAB) . As ever, the PAB process begins by reading the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ.

FYI, the FAQ is mandatory reading for PABers. If you don't read it then you'll screw things up, waste time (or worse) and piss off the guy who's trying to help you = not smart.

Please note that a Terms violation (or whatever) is not a pre-requisite to having a legitimate case for a PAB. Please see section 1.2 of the FAQ which descibes the few reasons why we WOULD NOT accept a PAB, anything else is pretty much fair game.

And last but not least: you should always feel free to ask us if you have questions or concerns about a possible PAB, or one in progress for that matter.

paul7388 · Mar 12, 2015

Finn said:
December 2014
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...he-bombardment-of-pointless-promotions.65365/

In addition Ladbrokes got the Casinomeister 2014 Fall From Grace award

https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2014/

I assume adding Ladbrokes on that list was an accident and you meant to list bet365 or other some other reputable bookmaker that still has a solid online casino.

Anyways, my favorite Playtech casino is bet365, in addition to Playtech slots, they also have Microgaming, WMS, NetEnt, AshGaming, etc, in total something like 750-800 different slots and games, too many Playtech casinos are Playtech-only casinos.

Ladbrokes got the fall from grace as they went from in my opinion the best microgaming casino to a rubbish playtech with bad promotions etc and the way they transferred was a shambles but you will find they are still amongst the most reputable casinos you can get. Their fall from grace was nothing to do with them being in any way disreputable just the way they went from being one of the best to just an average casino.

But in saying that if you were wanting to play at a playtech casino then Ladbrokes would still be one of the best choices. If you are fortunate to win then at least especially in UK you would know you would get your winnings fast and not get hit with any of this junk that it takes you years to get paid.

They also have a better choice of slots now including WMS, Netent etc and still have a decent sportsbook. Tho they made a really bad mistake in getting rid of MG and at times CS is not the best they are still amongst the most trustworthy casinos you will find on the Net.

carsten · Mar 12, 2015

As I wrote before, I am not complaning now, I have sent documents to the Philippines yesterday...Post says it will be there within 5-7 days...So I will wait until next thursday (and that will be 3 weeks from date when I clicked on the withdraw!).

Buut if a rep here can somehow process it faster, and give a logicial meaning to this sudden requirement it will be nice. Otherwise it is not my intention to complain about that until they get the docs... I am not that kind of guy...I was just curious if this is normal...

And the casinos are credited here! (even I am not the first one complaining about that!)
If the casino(s) is (are) really friendly then they could ask about this notarized ID while I have no withdraws, or can send my withdraw and then ask this documentation for furhter withdraws...and so on...I mean come on!

As Dunover wrote , there was kind of a threshold limit...and when it was over..they somehow find this...

That is it for now..

Regards,
Carsten

vinylweatherman · Mar 14, 2015

carsten said:
As I wrote before, I am not complaning now, I have sent documents to the Philippines yesterday...Post says it will be there within 5-7 days...So I will wait until next thursday (and that will be 3 weeks from date when I clicked on the withdraw!).

Buut if a rep here can somehow process it faster, and give a logicial meaning to this sudden requirement it will be nice. Otherwise it is not my intention to complain about that until they get the docs... I am not that kind of guy...I was just curious if this is normal...

And the casinos are credited here! (even I am not the first one complaining about that!)
If the casino(s) is (are) really friendly then they could ask about this notarized ID while I have no withdraws, or can send my withdraw and then ask this documentation for furhter withdraws...and so on...I mean come on!

As Dunover wrote , there was kind of a threshold limit...and when it was over..they somehow find this...

That is it for now..

Regards,
Carsten

What is so bad about this is that they don't give a stuff about your personal security, they ask YOU to post it well outside of the EU and to a country that is still regarded as "developing". It is THEY that should be doing all this legwork by providing a SECURE means for you to provide documents, which should be a postal address WITHIN the EU where EU data protection and privacy laws both apply and can be enforced. It then becomes THEIR responsibility to safeguard these documents when they pass them internally for processing in another country. By having the PLAYER post them direct, they are avoiding some of their legal responsibilities. For example, if YOU post them, but they are not received, they can deny responsibility as it wasn't they who sent them out of the EU. On the other hand, if you posted them to an EU address, and they were lost when THEY posted them out to the Philippines, it is they who are in breach of data protection laws.

The main risk is when they are in transit, rather than when they reach Paragon International Customer Care in Manila. It's a secure building in the business district. The longer the transit, and the more different handling bodies, the greater the risk. Risk of data interception is reduced by having such sensitive documents sent as short a distance as possible and in as secure a manner as possible. There must be plenty of security experts in Denmark capable of verifying your notarised documents, and if anything, they would be better at the task.

Adam FocalClick · Mar 14, 2015

Notarized ID

Hi All and Carsten in particular,

I'm sorry for the delay in responding to this thread, I didn't see it earlier.

I have messaged Carsten and will be dealing directly with this member to solve this issue as quickly as possible.

To answer the others in this thread, I believe it's a fairly normal occurrence and something that is common in the industry. There's been no question of the player not receiving the funds, it's just being processed according to our guidelines. There are numerous reasons why these documents are required and why we perform certain checks on players at different intervals. There are certain regulations and protocols we have to adhere to. In this case I will get the exact answer from the CS team in due course.

I also want to add that Omni and Fly have a very strong reputation in the industry for the way we treat and look after our players. It's one of our biggest strengths and something we pride ourselves on. We are recommended for a reason - we view players as family and if they have a complaint we solve it. I do not believe this issue is any different and I will fight for the player to get it resolved.

I hope this answers some of your comments and will be happy to talk further with anyone on this subject.

Kind regards,

Adam

paul7388 · Mar 14, 2015

I would hardly say its quite a normal practice in the Industry. Some casinos ask for them but its mainly Playtech .

Once a player has been verified at a casino there should be no need to ever request notarised documents as you already know who the player is and have proof of his identity. To ask an already verified player to pay to get documents notarized then send them half way around the world to a country where mail is not safe is hardly normal or safe. These sort of documents can lead to all sorts of fraud if they fall into the wrong hands.

I can see the point if a player wins and for whatever reason he can not get verified or there is a good chance he has committed fraud to maybe ask for notarized documents other than that its ridiculous in this day and age and nothing more than a delaying tactic and inconvenience to the player.

Casino2014man · Mar 14, 2015

paul7388 said:
I would hardly say its quite a normal practice in the Industry. Some casinos ask for them but its mainly Playtech .

Once a player has been verified at a casino there should be no need to ever request notarised documents as you already know who the player is and have proof of his identity. To ask an already verified player to pay to get documents notarized then send them half way around the world to a country where mail is not safe is hardly normal or safe. These sort of documents can lead to all sorts of fraud if they fall into the wrong hands.

I can see the point if a player wins and for whatever reason he can not get verified or there is a good chance he has committed fraud to maybe ask for notarized documents other than that its ridiculous in this day and age and nothing more than a delaying tactic and inconvenience to the player.

I completely agree with this.

If a casino ever asks me to spend my money, time and risk my security doing this they sure as hell will never see my business again.

I will also never, ever play at a Casino I have seen asking someone else for this kind of thing. Absolute farce.

Webzcas · Mar 14, 2015

I believe it's a fairly normal occurrence and something that is common in the industry.

No it is not normal and common. It is only normal and common with some Playtech casinos who like to provide hoops for players to jump through. In 15 years I have never ever been required to submit notarized documents to prove my identity when making a withdrawal. Like others in this thread have said, you won't see the likes of bet365 who use Playtech software provide this challenge when making a withdrawal.

I am currently updating my sites, with my oldest and most established site being updated first. This includes removing and adding many properties. This stunt pulled on Carsten means I am very, very close to removing all Focal Click properties from OCR and my other sites. Not only that, but in my book, this makes Omni and Fly worthy of consideration for OCR's S List.

Hopefully you can see the light and action Carsten's withdrawal promptly and have a chat with the senior management to remove this unnecessary and 'rogue' practice of insisting on notarized documents.

carsten · Mar 14, 2015

Hi all,

I have now sent an email to Adam where he asked my username(s)...I sent the email..I believe he can help...
I asked him to be careful about privacy...hopefully he will..

Regarding to the docs and so on...Honestly speaking , the docs casinos have (not only these two casinos but in general) is enough to steal your identity,name,life and so on...I mean if after six months some casinos get hacked or robbet ...then what ?? Or if the casino itself (there are thousnds of online casinos, they could be owned by any group fo people,hackers,bad guys? who knows?) misuses it ??...Yeah...may god bless us

Now I do trust FLY and OMNI they are not that kind of guys...So I sent my docs..(I can see, it is out of EU now-the letter

, I will in fact continue to play at their page if I get my last withdraw. No question about that!

That is for now!

Regards!
Carsten

carsten · Mar 14, 2015

And just forget to write...

I dont think it is normal to require Notarized ID, just because you wrote it in the terms, does not gives you the right to torture people...I mean if someone misuses any holes in the system then it is fine...
but that is not the case...or if it is big win really big win...then they may even require you to come and visit....it is then ok...but it is not the case ....

One of the sister says they dont need it , the other sister says they need it...because the one which needs it has my withdraw

...dont know what to say...

As I wrote before..I do trust these sisters (want to trust!)..So hopefully Adam will manage it..

vinylweatherman · Mar 14, 2015

carsten said:
Hi all,

I have now sent an email to Adam where he asked my username(s)...I sent the email..I believe he can help...
I asked him to be careful about privacy...hopefully he will..

Regarding to the docs and so on...Honestly speaking , the docs casinos have (not only these two casinos but in general) is enough to steal your identity,name,life and so on...I mean if after six months some casinos get hacked or robbet ...then what ?? Or if the casino itself (there are thousnds of online casinos, they could be owned by any group fo people,hackers,bad guys? who knows?) misuses it ??...Yeah...may god bless us

Now I do trust FLY and OMNI they are not that kind of guys...So I sent my docs..(I can see, it is out of EU now-the letter , I will in fact continue to play at their page if I get my last withdraw. No question about that!

That is for now!

Regards!
Carsten

That's not the problem. Do you trust the various posties and couriers who's names and employers you will never know when the documents are in transit? If they were intercepted, you have no one to pin the blame on. If a casino has your documents and they allow them to fall into the wrong hands, then they are responsible, both morally and legally.

Notarised documents has been described as "rare" by a number of reps from a number of operators. What IS "common practice" is the usual procedure of the player sending JPEG images of their photo ID, utility bill or bank statement, and back & front of any card used. These are not posted to Manila, but emailed or securely uploaded to the casino. Even with notarised documents, the norm is STILL for the player to send them as JPEG files, as what really matters to the casino is contacting the notary who's seal is on the documents to verify that they are genuine notarised copies from his firm.

Now, when it comes to a casino operating in Europe with a licence from Curacao (which isn't too reputable in itself) which then considers it "common industry practice" to ask players to send notarised documents to the Philippines, it makes one wonder what is actually going on with the company structure and ownership. Whilst this is OMNI, the pairing of a licence from one of the "rubber stamp" jurisdictions and a head office in some far flung place well away from the jurisdiction of the part of the world where their target market lies is also the hallmark of the dodgy dealing, and sometimes rogue, casino. If one had cause to go after OMNI in a legal sense, where the hell are they?

This particular setup when it comes to Playtech is evidence of a white label casino, and as such, would not normally be considered for accreditation. These casinos are operated by Playtech themselves through their subsidiary Paragon International Customer Care, who just happen to live in the same Manila offices where some players are told to post their notarised documents. The "owners" are the ones that market their white label, and players have to post documents to Manila as there is no actual "head office" of the white label to handle this kind of thing.

When it comes to the big name Playtech casinos, it is far from "common practice" to ask for notarised documents, and on the rare occasions when they do, the player is asked to post them to a proper head office closer to home. It's either an office in their licencing jurisdiction, or one in an EU country (the support centre itself).

This seems to be the first time that the "post to the Philippines" request has been a matter of pure routine when an already verified player just seems to have reached a certain level of transactions. In the past, the request has been made of new players of whom the casino has suspicions, usually as a result of collective "unusual activity" related to a new player bonus offering.

carsten · Mar 14, 2015

vinylweatherman said:
That's not the problem. Do you trust the various posties and couriers who's names and employers you will never know when the documents are in transit? If they were intercepted, you have no one to pin the blame on. If a casino has your documents and they allow them to fall into the wrong hands, then they are responsible, both morally and legally.

Notarised documents has been described as "rare" by a number of reps from a number of operators. What IS "common practice" is the usual procedure of the player sending JPEG images of their photo ID, utility bill or bank statement, and back & front of any card used. These are not posted to Manila, but emailed or securely uploaded to the casino. Even with notarised documents, the norm is STILL for the player to send them as JPEG files, as what really matters to the casino is contacting the notary who's seal is on the documents to verify that they are genuine notarised copies from his firm.

Now, when it comes to a casino operating in Europe with a licence from Curacao (which isn't too reputable in itself) which then considers it "common industry practice" to ask players to send notarised documents to the Philippines, it makes one wonder what is actually going on with the company structure and ownership. Whilst this is OMNI, the pairing of a licence from one of the "rubber stamp" jurisdictions and a head office in some far flung place well away from the jurisdiction of the part of the world where their target market lies is also the hallmark of the dodgy dealing, and sometimes rogue, casino. If one had cause to go after OMNI in a legal sense, where the hell are they?

This particular setup when it comes to Playtech is evidence of a white label casino, and as such, would not normally be considered for accreditation. These casinos are operated by Playtech themselves through their subsidiary Paragon International Customer Care, who just happen to live in the same Manila offices where some players are told to post their notarised documents. The "owners" are the ones that market their white label, and players have to post documents to Manila as there is no actual "head office" of the white label to handle this kind of thing.

When it comes to the big name Playtech casinos, it is far from "common practice" to ask for notarised documents, and on the rare occasions when they do, the player is asked to post them to a proper head office closer to home. It's either an office in their licencing jurisdiction, or one in an EU country (the support centre itself).

This seems to be the first time that the "post to the Philippines" request has been a matter of pure routine when an already verified player just seems to have reached a certain level of transactions. In the past, the request has been made of new players of whom the casino has suspicions, usually as a result of collective "unusual activity" related to a new player bonus offering.

Thank you for the post weatherman..(dont know how to give thanks in the forum

so you get in this way)

You are right....just cant imagine what if I won one of the big jackpots...I was namely very very close

...
In my case the amount is not that big but I needed it...:-\..I mean I was expecting this withdraw on time....planned according to that....had to make new plans :-\

and it is correct where to apply if there is a legal issue? and why to ask these docs for an already verified customer...???

I choosed them..nice,simple software interface, good colors,good chat support, good promos and so on..as I wrote the first 5 withdraw from these sisters were non problematic...

So I will not just shoot them down for now...(with the hope that I will get my withdraw soon

) (as mentioned before I will continue to play at their sites if I get my withdraw...this is the last problem I believe I may experience with them, so why not to continue)

paul7388 · Mar 14, 2015

carsten said:
Thank you for the post weatherman..(dont know how to give thanks in the forum so you get in this way)

You are right....just cant imagine what if I won one of the big jackpots...I was namely very very close ...
In my case the amount is not that big but I needed it...:-\..I mean I was expecting this withdraw on time....planned according to that....had to make new plans :-\

and it is correct where to apply if there is a legal issue? and why to ask these docs for an already verified customer...???

I choosed them..nice,simple software interface, good colors,good chat support, good promos and so on..as I wrote the first 5 withdraw from these sisters were non problematic...

So I will not just shoot them down for now...(with the hope that I will get my withdraw soon ) (as mentioned before I will continue to play at their sites if I get my withdraw...this is the last problem I believe I may experience with them, so why not to continue)

Well hopefully it gets sorted and you get paid quick.

Make one more post and you will be able to thank posts. After your 10th post a thanks button appears at bottom of every post and if you want to thank the post you just click it.

Non-Bonus Complaint Notarized ID ...Is it normal after 6 withdraws?

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