Non-Bonus Complaint (Casumo) Card Verification - Help Please!

Not a complaint at this early stage (really just need advice) and this on behalf of my father who won a NetEnt jackpot with Casumo last week.

My father (who is in his late 60s) made a deposit at Casumo last week with his Eurocard/Mastercard and the bank attempted to call him the next day to verifiy the transaction. As a precaution (as gambling transactions were not normal for him) the bank cancelled his card and sent him a new one with a different number. The transaction to Casumo for £97 was processed and is now showing on his bank statement.

All other identification (utility bill, passport etc) has been approved by Casumo but they are still wanting front and back copies of his card. This of course is not possible as he was instructed to cut the card up by the agent on the phone at Lloyds Bank.

I have arranged to meet with my father tomorrow to head to Lloyds Bank who have told him that they can write a letter in branch to Casumo that the card has been cancelled and replaced. This letter would be signed by the branch manager, on letter headed paper and include his full name, address and card number (which was cancelled).

A private message to the Rep here (Tobais) has been sent but his response (as expected) is that my father needs to meet 5.4 of Casumo terms and condtions.

As Casumo have already been sent copies of bank statments showing the transactions to them including the card number and authorisation code, should we expect this matter to be resolved with the sending of the branch signed letter?

(Side note: The LGA of Malta who I spoke with today say that the criteria has already been met with the sending of bank statements showing the Casumo transaction and a covering letter in which my father confirms he made the deposits using his card)

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Ok, is the card he has NOW a follow on card? ask your dad do the first 4 digits match those of his old card? When people lose cards, or when expiry dates are close, the bank will send you a new card with different digits, but the first 4 will remain the same, if this is the case that letter is more than enough to prove its his card. The problem you'll have is anyone decent with a PC can knock up an official looking letter from a bank in about 15 mins, so whether the casino go down the "anyone could have made that" route is a possibility.

Question for you, the casino will pay to his sort code and account number, not the long 16 digit on the front, what exactly do they require your dad to show? You mention he has shown statements from his bank to the casino, what exactly do they want? Front and back is not logical as the card he has now will be different, also can you tell me if its a debit or credit card please.

also, when the card was cancelled, was there a chargeback to the casino? meaning however innocent, did the bank/card company charge back his deposit to his card? i need more information on this please.

edit - re-read your post, ill now assume its a credit card, which makes things a bit trickier than a debit card, however, if your dad has provided screenshots of the transactions to the casino SHOWING THE SORT CODE AND ACCOUNT NUMBER that should be more than acceptable, the fact he cannot provide a psychical image of the card doesn't matter, hes prove beyond doubt he made those deposits.

sigothx1 said:

Ok, is the card he has NOW a follow on card? ask your dad do the first 4 digits match those of his old card? When people lose cards, or when expiry dates are close, the bank will send you a new card with different digits, but the first 4 will remain the same, if this is the case that letter is more than enough to prove its his card. The problem you'll have is anyone decent with a PC can knock up an official looking letter from a bank in about 15 mins, so whether the casino go down the "anyone could have made that" route is a possibility.

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A new card was ordered at the weekend and it's expected to arrive in around 5-7 days time. The last e-mail that Casumo sent to my father stated that once they receive a letter from the bank (as a photo not a scan) saying the card is not in use anymore they will process the withdrawal. Sounds simple, but how that will play out at the bank tomorrow who knows! I'm going with him to make sure everything is written down and signed before leaving

sigothx1 said:

When the card was cancelled, was there a chargeback to the casino? meaning however innocent, did the bank/card company charge back his deposit to his card? i need more information on this please.

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No, the transactions triggered a security block but both transactions passed through as normal. Indeed, his bank statements show both transactions already.

sigothx1 said:

re-read your post, ill now assume its a credit card, which makes things a bit trickier than a debit card

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Yes, when I recommended he joined Casumo to give slots a try I forgot the mention the rule about credit cards. He has to pay nearly £14 on top of those transactions - cash fee + foreign transaction fees! Secondly, he used a MasterCard which means Casumo cannot refund using that method. That's why he sent bank statements showing his name, account number to receive the withdrawal that way.

What a mess, hopefully resolved tomorrow. Second time he deposited and wins a jackpot, couldn't make it up!

Afraid I've no experience with Casumo, or a similar situation with other casino's so can't really second-guess what their view on this would be.

I guess there's no hope of digging the cut card out of the bin either(?).

From your posts, it seems to me you're going about things the right way with the bank. As sigothx1 has said, it's relatively easy to fabricate a bank letter, so whilst you're with them, see if you can get them to agree for the casino to call someone senior within the bank to discuss the matter. Key point is to have the contact person at the bank being available via their main switchboard number (so Casumo can initiate the call & satisfy themselves that they are ringing a bank number that can be found in a telephone book (rather than some random persons home or mobile phone number)).

I would have liked to think that as the casino is accredited here & you've explained the situation to them, their advice would be a lot more helpful than simply stating you have to comply with 5.4 of T's & C's. That said, the rep here may be initially sticking to what they have to, but also investigating further internally about what could be done. (Committing to anything further without first establishing if it can be done may be nice for you to hear, but may not actually be possible in terms of the checks and balances they have to complete in order to comply with their own obligations. (I note you state you've spoken to the Regulator, but the Operator themselves may not have done so at this point)).

Serious congrats to your dad for his win, and fingers crossed the card issue will be sorted without too much drama & then the win can be enjoyed.


Please keep us posted on how it all goes.

I lost my card and was sent a replacement n had to verify with hippozino, told them what happened n that was it. They rang me 4 fone verification n approved the wd. I hope casumo understand the problem here which is out of ur dad's hands. Im very clumsy witb cards n actually it happened to me at betat whn thy were only mg but my carx was already verified n thy said thy will still process wd to old card as it will still land in my account connected with the card used to deposit. Now all rests on casumo support whether thy think thrz sumfng suspicious or not

Sorry for the late reply, had to work late tonight

Complete waste of time at the bank today with my father, they don't write letters in branch (kinda knew that before we headed out) - now have to wait around 10 days for a letter in the post. Casumo so far have been very supportive and are prepared to wait a while longer for the verification. They have also confirmed they will be paying him in one go rather than weekly or monthly instalments.

Waiting game now

All should be ok with them, they seem a good casino.

Was it a good JP he got?

Nicola said:

Sorry for the late reply, had to work late tonight

Complete waste of time at the bank today with my father, they don't write letters in branch (kinda knew that before we headed out) - now have to wait around 10 days for a letter in the post. Casumo so far have been very supportive and are prepared to wait a while longer for the verification. They have also confirmed they will be paying him in one go rather than weekly or monthly instalments.

Waiting game now

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Thanks for the update...

Seems the casino is trying to be helpful, so that's good to hear. Any chance you can let us know who the bank is? (This may help those who are considering moving accounts and/or when looking for a new credit card. (Seems they're possibly not being as helpful as they could be / they could try to suggest and/or expedite a quicker alternative or solution)).

Hello all!

I just wanted to let you know that I have, as Nicola said, been in contact with both her here at Casinomeister and her father via Casumo.

This situation is a bit trickier than 99.9% of all our verifications but we just want to make sure that we have what we are required to have to oblige by MGA ( previous LGA ) demands and then we will send the money.

I understand the frustration both Nicola and her father is feeling as you do want your winnings on your account as soon as possible but rest assured that it wont go missing and that we don´t have any time limits what so ever do verify accounts and cards.

Nicola, or any one els, if you have any further questions don´t hesitate to contact me here or via hey@casumo.com.

I wish you all a good night

/ T

This is also the bank's fault. They were far too trigger happy over this, and gave out some bad advice. It's not as if online gambling here in the UK is some shadowy activity, it has become mainstream, and banks routinely have terms specifically related to gambling transactions. They should also know that casinos are bound by the same KYC laws as they are, so should have told your father that the card was cancelled and replaced, but to keep the old one in a safe place until the issue had been finalised.

As well as bad advice, the bank should not have cancelled the card and reissued a new one until they had contacted the cardholder and found out that the transaction was not genuine. Blocking the card until they had contacted the cardholder is enough, I have had this happen to me when trying to use my Lloyds debit card at casinos, which is WHY I get so annoyed at casinos that penalise Neteller users and try to force them to use cards instead. This is a wonderful illustration of a major downside of using cards even now that this is a perfectly legitimate activity.

This clash of security procedures between the UK banks and the UK licenced casinos needs to be addressed at a regulatory level so that one can't instruct a customer to do something that could place them in an impossible situation with the other.

In the mean time, disregard any instruction to destroy a card that has EVER been used to deposit at a casino. Instead, put the dud card in a safe place and keep it there for a few years. Sometimes the request for a copy of a card comes months, even years, after it was last used at the casino.

When a withdrawal is large, such as in the case of a progressive jackpot, then the procedures are much stricter than for a regular withdrawal.

Thanks for the replies. I hope Casumo get to see the most recent post (or at least the rep) to understand that this is an issue which crops up now and again. The bank in question is 'Lloyds' and they do seem to be trigger happy with blocking cards and transactions.

Haven't spoke to my father since Wednesday but don't think it has progressed any further.

From what I've read here this clearly isn't a "slow-pay" issue as it was originally marked. I've changed that to something (vaguely) more appropriate.

Nicola said:

(Side note: The LGA of Malta who I spoke with today say that the criteria has already been met with the sending of bank statements showing the Casumo transaction and a covering letter in which my father confirms he made the deposits using his card)

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Tobias.R said:

… we just want to make sure that we have what we are required to have to oblige by MGA ( previous LGA ) demands and then we will send the money.

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Based on conversations Nicola has had with the Regulator and what Tobias has said regarding their obligations to the same organisation, this should be able to be resolved without waiting for whatever else is coming from the bank(?).

Nicola, do you have anything in writing from the Regulators in Malta and/or a contact name for the person there that you spoke to? If so, I’d suggest getting this to Tobias ASAP so you can make sure all conversations are had with the same person(s) & a consistent message is received from them.


Thanks to both for keeping us up-to-date with this situation & fingers crossed it is sorted sooner than later

Hello Nicola!

If your father will have a look at his email now I think that he will find a positive email waiting for him there.

Have a great day!

/T

Nicola said:

Thanks for the replies. I hope Casumo get to see the most recent post (or at least the rep) to understand that this is an issue which crops up now and again. The bank in question is 'Lloyds' and they do seem to be trigger happy with blocking cards and transactions.

Haven't spoke to my father since Wednesday but don't think it has progressed any further.

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Thank you Tobais, just spoke with him and all resolved. He got snowed in last night so shovelling snow is keeping him busy!

This thread was never really a complaint, I hold too much respect for Casumo personally, but needed advice from the community to satisfy my father who's first response was "Yeah, another scam I have fell for" - I warn him all the time about giving his card and bank details to people

A couple of things were withheld from this thread in case it needed to be escalated. This conversation troubled me slightly:

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Casumo-Nina: No he is sick

Casumo-Nina: The payment guy

Casumo-Nina: will come tomorrow

Peter: so no-one is getting paid at the moment because of this?

Casumo-Nina: Well it takes at least a day

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A day makes little different to experienced players like myself but when you say 'instant withdrawals' when verified, but if the guy is off sick and nothing moves for a few days may annoy some.

Finally, thank you for your personal offer via PM, but I tend to stick away from NDB as I'm a dedicated DOA player

Nicola said:

Thank you Tobais, just spoke with him and all resolved. He got snowed in last night so shovelling snow is keeping him busy!

This thread was never really a complaint, I hold too much respect for Casumo personally, but needed advice from the community to satisfy my father who's first response was "Yeah, another scam I have fell for" - I warn him all the time about giving his card and bank details to people

A couple of things were withheld from this thread in case it needed to be escalated. This conversation troubled me slightly:

--

Casumo-Nina: No he is sick

Casumo-Nina: The payment guy

Casumo-Nina: will come tomorrow

Peter: so no-one is getting paid at the moment because of this?

Casumo-Nina: Well it takes at least a day

--

A day makes little different to experienced players like myself but when you say 'instant withdrawals' when verified, but if the guy is off sick and nothing moves for a few days may annoy some.

Finally, thank you for your personal offer via PM, but I tend to stick away from NDB as I'm a dedicated DOA player

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This doesn't looks good. Just ONE SINGLE employee is off sick, and the whole show grinds to a halt. This is an error many businesses make, and it's something that is pretty much unbelievable from a customer's point of view, which would make them suspect a scam. It's impossible to know how long someone is going to be sick, and so the company should have in place procedures to ensure that the business is not disrupted for such a minor mishap. What would happen if this key person wasn't merely sick, but had become permanently unavailable to the company, which could happen for a number of reasons. Companies can, and have, failed due to not having a back up plan for such an eventuality.

These is a simple answer - have someone else do it. The more alternatives a business has for a key personnel task, the more resilient they are to problems that keep staff away from their post. Making payments must be one of the most important tasks a business has to perform, as it's a customer facing function where it is easy to notice things going wrong. It is also something that is likely to scare customers, even business creditors. Some companies have gone bust because of nothing more than a rumour that they have no money to pay the bills taking hold and spreading among customers. An unfortunate coincidence can give credibility to such a rumour such that it cannot be put down by any number of reassuring statements from the company involved.

Hello all,

In this instance Nina was right in the fact that one of our employees was sick but her answer was way to short to be accurate. What happened was that one payments guy was sick and that obviously puts more pressure on the other guys at that time but after his shift we are abel to add other payment guys to compensate and work on the waiting payments.

vinylweatherman said:

This doesn't looks good. Just ONE SINGLE employee is off sick, and the whole show grinds to a halt. /.../ "

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