Attack In Paris

Cleveland

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Location
Texas
It just never ends :(. Just pulled up my work email a couple of seconds ago and saw some info outlining this. Can't link the email but this is the incident:

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It just never ends :(. Just pulled up my work email a couple of seconds ago and saw some info outlining this. Can't link the email but this is the incident:

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BBC has the videos and article if you can access it in the US.
Terrible, and just reminds us of the dangers emanating from some of the medievals that have been allowed to colonize parts of the West. This will never get better.
 
It's terrible. All day I have listened about this from other journalists/ news reporters.

'They', almost, walked calmly to their little black car and drove, after putting a fatal bullet to a policeman's head.

ISIS is a huge 'movement' and it seems that a large following is from the UK.

Their religion , their God is not mine.

Well, it seems that 2 are in custody and 1 suspect killed.
 
I've lived in Paris for the last decade. To me the only surprising thing about this event is that it didn't happen sooner and it wasn't much worse.

There are substantial Arab, Jewish and African black populations in the city and many of your average (white) French don't like it. The fact is that racial tensions here are very real and fairly widespread. There's no doubt that the radicals have behaved monstrously but a lot of French people (at least here in Paris) think it's quite entertaining to make disgusting jokes and racial slurs about non-white French, among others, not to mention flaunting outright racial hatred as if it were something to be proud of. At the end of the day a non-trivial percentage of French behave as if most (if not all) "foreigners" are filthy, unwanted invaders and the cause of all their problems. Sure, we've all heard about this kind of crap before but here it truly is a part of life, just part of the current running through the city and the country at large.

Look to the steady rise of Le Pen and the racist right for some perspective on the problem. Also look for stuff on Youtube for the kind of thing that goes on in the Paris suburbs, the banlieu, where the population is disproportionatly non-white and immigrant and where unemplyment runs as high as 20%. This New Years for instance the news reported that it was "a quiet year, only 98 cars were torched". 98! Anywhere else that would be reported as a major riot but here it's just routine. Examples of these tensions pop up all over the place: in my neighbourhood, for example, a Jewish kid was kicked to death a few years ago by a gang of French and Arab high schoolers. In the offices my wife works in as a consultant staff will often tell her, in confidence of course, that this or that social ill is the fault of "le petit noir" ("the little blacks") or the Arabs or whomever. These are middle-class or upper-middle-class professionals! It's not poverty or social injustice driving their racism, not that those are excuses either.

And that racism isn't limited to Arabs or Jews or African blacks which, of course, is bad enough in itself. My wife and I are as white as it gets and we get a fair amount of it ourselves, from all sides. For me it's just anti-foreigner stuff but for her the verbal abuse is often sexual which makes it doubly hard to deal with. Either way it's not fun and it never stops. We've been watching the situation worsen for years and have been fully expecting something, somewhere to blow.

This is why I say the recent attack isn't much of a surprise: to us it seems more-or-less to be expected because the root causes of that kind of thing are everywhere, every day here. And the French government is no help. They are nowhere to be seen: the general approach seems to be to leave it to people on the street to sort it out for themselves. In an economically difficult environment challenged with rising unemplyment and laced with racial tension that seems a particularly short-sighted approach to the problem.
 
I think you make some very good points Max. When you turn on the news and you see 12 dead and the target was a satirical magazine then your mind turns immediately to extremism and even to the religion that the gunmen represent. However, what us non-Parisian dwellers don't see is what is going on in the city everyday. I am not suggesting that there is any justification for this attack, but these are worrying times with whats going on all accross Europe including UK, France, Germany and many other countries. Far right views, oppression and general undermining of people's beliefs and views with ultimately lead to more violence.
 
I've lived in Paris for the last decade. To me the only surprising thing about this event is that it didn't happen sooner and it wasn't much worse.

There are substantial Arab, Jewish and African black populations in the city and many of your average (white) French don't like it. The fact is that racial tensions here are very real and fairly widespread. There's no doubt that the radicals have behaved monstrously but a lot of French people (at least here in Paris) think it's quite entertaining to make disgusting jokes and racial slurs about non-white French, among others, not to mention flaunting outright racial hatred as if it were something to be proud of. At the end of the day a non-trivial percentage of French behave as if most (if not all) "foreigners" are filthy, unwanted invaders and the cause of all their problems. Sure, we've all heard about this kind of crap before but here it truly is a part of life, just part of the current running through the city and the country at large.

Look to the steady rise of Le Pen and the racist right for some perspective on the problem. Also look for stuff on Youtube for the kind of thing that goes on in the Paris suburbs, the banlieu, where the population is disproportionatly non-white and immigrant and where unemplyment runs as high as 20%. This New Years for instance the news reported that it was "a quiet year, only 98 cars were torched". 98! Anywhere else that would be reported as a major riot but here it's just routine. Examples of these tensions pop up all over the place: in my neighbourhood, for example, a Jewish kid was kicked to death a few years ago by a gang of French and Arab high schoolers. In the offices my wife works in as a consultant staff will often tell her, in confidence of course, that this or that social ill is the fault of "le petit noir" ("the little blacks") or the Arabs or whomever. These are middle-class or upper-middle-class professionals! It's not poverty or social injustice driving their racism, not that those are excuses either.

And that racism isn't limited to Arabs or Jews or African blacks which, of course, is bad enough in itself. My wife and I are as white as it gets and we get a fair amount of it ourselves, from all sides. For me it's just anti-foreigner stuff but for her the verbal abuse is often sexual which makes it doubly hard to deal with. Either way it's not fun and it never stops. We've been watching the situation worsen for years and have been fully expecting something, somewhere to blow.

This is why I say the recent attack isn't much of a surprise: to us it seems more-or-less to be expected because the root causes of that kind of thing are everywhere, every day here. And the French government is no help. They are nowhere to be seen: the general approach seems to be to leave it to people on the street to sort it out for themselves. In an economically difficult environment challenged with rising unemplyment and laced with racial tension that seems a particularly short-sighted approach to the problem.


The problem is not the bunch of white people trying to solve the problem by voting for radical political parties, that's a natural cause-effect reaction (see: history). The problem is white people who thought multiculturalism was a good idea and then opened the borders to a massive amount of foreigners with different cultures/ideas/ways of life; people that had no intention whatsoever to live the way that the French people (ie: the West) live.

They fucked up. UK is next. Then Australia, Canada and the rest of the Western world will follow.

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Murderous loonies.

Without a doubt! Given that the paper pretty much knew that AND they're publishing in an environment where any racial/religious baiting is likely to end badly I can't help but think that they went some way toward sticking their heads into the lion's jaws. That's not forgiving anyone for anything but if you paint yourself up as bait and say "bite me!" .. just saying.

I fully appreciate the argument that if one willfully gags oneself over such things then you're also encouraging the nutters. Seems to me it's a lose-lose situation all around BUT if you take the known-to-offend stance then someone, somewhere is likely to pay the price. Such things usually get a lot worse before they get any better.

And so we hear that another two cops were taken out today. Sickening. There's a lot of hate out there.

Elsewhere though the streets of Paris have been very quiet. It's been declared a national day of mourning. The city often shuts down like this when things get too crazy, most people just stay home and wait for the storm to pass. Of course it will but I think there's a collective delusion that "pass" means "resolved" which this obviously certainly isn't.
 
I'm far from an expert on this but I have been reading heavily over the past few days.

Its worth noting this isn't the first time this company has been targeted, in 2011 their offices were bombed. After that they were warned by the French Government to cool down, and be careful what they publish.

The papers argument was freedom of speech/expression which is something I strongly agree with. We should not be told what we can and cannot say, believe, or write. But the clue is in the name "Extremists" If you poke them, ridicule their beliefs, they will kill, with no remorse.

You can't fix crazy.

RIP.
 
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I'm far from an expert on this but I have been reading heavily over the past few days.

Its worth noting this isn't the first time this company has been targeted, in 2011 their offices were bombed. After that they were warned by the French Government to cool down, and be careful what they publish.

The papers argument was freedom of speech/expression which is something I strongly agree with. We should not be told what we can and cannot say, believe, or write. But the clue is in the name "Extremists" If you poke them, ridicule their beliefs, they will kill, with no remorse.


You can't fix crazy.

RIP.


You took the words right out of my mouth , how many more have to die before our countries really take the task and come together by ridding them off this planet before they do it to us and that is what they want , all this coalition crap going on is just that , these people do not want peace not the type that Islam preaches but their own misguided , cowardly kind of sicko extremist beliefs !

It is getting really scary out there for everyone as these assholes are everywhere and if we act like sheep then we shall be taken to slaughter , plain and simple !

I have friends of all faiths and all walks of life and believe that we all have the right to our own personal convictions , no faith nor persons should ever try to force its beliefs upon another by murdering, torture and trying to silence the masses !

Lifted prayers to those families,

Laurie
 
Unfortunately, you cannot wipe an ideology off this planet. These extremists will forever be in existence in one shape or form. It's a tragedy. For us sane individuals it is incomprehensible to wish such harm on innocent people, let alone to carry it out. They are twisted cowards who incorrectly hide behind their own warped interpretation of religion to justify their evil acts.

Funnily enough, all these attacks are doing is unifying our cultures even more. They attack Charlie Hebdo and what does the world do? Unites across social networks to post up Charlie Hebdo images. They attack an Australian cafe. What does Australia do? Unites with the #iwillridewithyou campaign.

The greater good always prevails. Always.

I appreciate there is an argument from some stating that these extremists have been born out of the West's evils but that cannot take away from the responsibility of the individuals that carried out these acts. I did not support the wars on Iraq and Afghanistan but that does not mean I sympathise with these extremists.
 
je ne suis pas charlie!

as i read in news reports, their center was attacked first in 2011 for the very same reasons, in other words they played with fire. there is simply no outcome depicting anything from islam other than infuriating its members, 'only' 5 millions in France and at the third generation and few may act.

definition of freedom broke all boundaries during past 10 years, and freedom of speech was emulated with freedom of offend, be it as a cartoon. publicly i want to see all cults getting the same amount of respect in a ecumenical way. for this reason, JE NE SUIS PAS CHARLIE.

i would have loved to see the same breaking news from second 1 with complete timeline of the events and international solidarity of the people during Israel - Palestina unequal war for stupid reasons where thousands were killed in one side with a few on the other and then to see Netanyahu alike people depicted in cartoons for what they did. oh, then organisations would have scream antisemitism invoking holocaust, as always, no matter subject. freedom of mocking is limited though...

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guess the reactions of christians around the world after seeing this. one person would have been enough to become savage and behave in the way those 2 guys did. what about just avoid using such subjects. im not christian nor a member of any religious cult and i live the way i want.
 
The problem is not the bunch of white people trying to solve the problem by voting for radical political parties, that's a natural cause-effect reaction (see: history). The problem is white people who thought multiculturalism was a good idea and then opened the borders to a massive amount of foreigners with different cultures/ideas/ways of life; people that had no intention whatsoever to live the way that the French people (ie: the West) live.

They fucked up. UK is next. Then Australia, Canada and the rest of the Western world will follow.

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that's true, its that liberal mindset of kumbaya.
 
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
― Benjamin Franklin, Memoirs of the life & writings of Benjamin Franklin
 
Well it's all over for now - but here comes the media, political and academic speculation and minute dissection of the government and security forces actions in a bid to criticise or apportion blame
 
It's the ideology that needs to be targeted, which is never going to be easy and usually any amount of education or even suppression will not change it.

There's no way to wipe it out completely, you can try to target every terrorist or even suspect, but if the ideology appeals to another person group it will sprout up in a different way, usually more dangerous that before.
 
i resonate with this view on the subject. beware of the 'unorthodox' banners before enter.
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not really sure if is staged but one thing is for sure, freedom of speech is restricted when holy people from the holy land are involved.
 
The French press (and others) are getting all gushy about 1.3 million people taking to the streets over this, supposedly in solidarity for .. whatever.

Good article on that here: "BBC News - France divided despite uplifting rallies" (
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)

And lest people forget: roughly 1.4 million people took to the streets of Paris a couple years ago in protest against the goverment's proposed legislation supporting gay marriage rights. So slightly more people wanted to deny same-sex marriages than came out this weekend to support the "Je suis Charlie" thing. Perspective folks, can make a world of difference in how one sees these things.

FWIW Parisians love doing these massive street gatherings, typically happens two or three times a year. Admittedly this one -- and the anti gay marriage gathering -- was fairly largish comparatively speaking but there you go. Other huge gatherings I've seen in Paris include: a 2007 (?) protest against raising the retirement age from 55 to 57; a 2009 protest against increased work week -- 32 to 35 hours -- for goverment employees; a two-day event in 2012 to protest against the current President; etc.

Those were all large-scale events. Like I said, Parisians love to gather. Trouble is they seem to think their work is done once they head home from the day's outing, follow-through after these events is conspicuously absent. This is something the Charlie Hebdo magazine people themselves have commented on recently.
 
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final heads up if anyone is really interested in the (indirect) goal of Paris attacks.
wikileaks opinion on the matter
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if you google enough, you'll find that he targeted all groups during stand up comedy acts, even muslims. it was free speech until....^

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France banned pro-Palestine demonstrations during that conflict. how convenient
latuff2-540x287.jpg

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International War Crimes Tribunal accuses Israel of war crimes, crimes against humanity and incitement to genocide
it was held in Brussels, not a single news report from well known media agencies. you can realize this by googling.
final outcome/deja vu of Russel Tribunal is in this nice pic
obama-540x382.gif

media started very late to give news reports injected with propaganda about israeli operation/massacre 'Protective Edge', about 2 weeks after and 1000+ deaths made. i was up to date thanks to deepweb, garden of pedophiles, criminals, drug dealers etc but where the news are given early and documented thanks to independent fully anonymous journalists, the true heroes that needs to hide to express the so-called freedom of speech. after which i realized how The Protocols it may be an anti-semite book, but accurate on matters for something written in 1903, the hoax being the versions heavily censored and abbreviated, guess by who.
 

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