Microgaming casinos leaving UK market

It's not entirely surprising given the new legislation coming into force soon. I cannot see 32red exiting the UK market. I'd imagine a large chunk of their revenue comes from us. Those who care about the UK market will surely just apply for UK license and then continue I would have thought? There was always going to be an exodus initially. The true test will be which companies chose to apply and come back. My thoughts are that we will probably see an exit of the smallerr names and the big names will continue. Will there be a restriction of choice? Of course. Will it be bad? Who knows. We may not know the true extent of how this will affect the online gambling market in the UK for some time afterwards. The chances are we could see a lot of UK only versions of these casinos. We won't really know till it happens though.

Does anyone know how this new tax will be funded though? Will the casino take the hit or will the RTP be altered to reflect? Any thoughts?
 
Microgaming has a very significant and well established presence in England and on the Isle of Man, and some of its top licensees are active in the UK market.

The operators will bear the brunt of these new taxes if they wish to access and advertise to a maturing and lucrative market, and I imagine will inevitably have to pass some of that on somehow.

There are repercussions for the software providers too in respect of UK Gambling Commission regulations, but the main tax burden and additional expense will fall on the operators.

This is the first I have heard of MGS licensees pulling out of the UK, and I have not so far seen any confirmation of this report elsewhere.

Regarding the number of operators who choose to stay in the UK market, the CEO of the Gambling Commission, Jenny Williams, told a business conference last week that they initially expect at least 150 applications, and that there has been considerable interest in UK licensing and a number of early applications (the closing date for applications is I think mid-September).

The threat from the Gibraltar online casino trade association that it is seeking a judicial review of the new UK law is real, but has to some extent been diluted by major Gib online bookmakers like William Hill and Ladbrokes saying they do not support that sort of litigation, although they are less than happy with the new tax.
 
FWIW after this thread I spoke to my VIP rep at a casino and he told me they would be pulling out of the UK market but nothing had officially been announced. Time to find a new site for me :oops:
 
Given that Gibraltar is a British territory I doubt their objections will come to much anyway. Until recently there was another loophole too - in the Channel Islands certain goods less than £15 were allowed to be sold VAT free. Needless to say DVD/CD and other small-item sellers flooded there to undercut rivals on eBay as their costs were 20% less.
The valid point is that it will be unenforceable as we've said before; customers will go to non-licensed operators (as the Gib protestors rightly point out) to avoid taxes. Therefore, the ONLY way this can be enforced is by other entities being made to co-operate. You would need banks to be told to refuse transactions for certain processors to UK citizens, the govt. would need to criminalize those who attempt to play at tax-free sites plus you've got freedom of choice issues. It'll be very hard to enforce, and relies solely on the casinos' goodwill.
 
I agree that unless the British government is prepared to push this as far as some of the other governments in Europe (ie disruption of financial transactions, denial of marketing access, blacklisting and active prosecution of unlicensed operators) some unlicensed operators with software beyond the reach of the Brit authorities will continue to chance their arms. But it will entail some risk i.m.o.

I don't at this point see UK politicians daring to make playing an offence - that would create too much of a furore.
 
I agree that unless the British government is prepared to push this as far as some of the other governments in Europe (ie disruption of financial transactions, denial of marketing access, blacklisting and active prosecution of unlicensed operators) some unlicensed operators with software beyond the reach of the Brit authorities will continue to chance their arms. But it will entail some risk i.m.o.

I don't at this point see UK politicians daring to make playing an offence - that would create too much of a furore.

Ok we know the bigger operations like 32red will pay their dues and continue to service the UK market, but IF they are a minority and say 95% of sites currently available do not, then we run the risk of becoming like USA players, scratching around for other places to play then being ripped off as the sites in question would be in some remote town called 'Rogue City' far beyond any real regulatory body.
The irony being that the government has forced large parts of a generally well-run and safe industry away to be replaced by sites of the Rushmore ilk, therefore ruining all the good intentions of the UKGC and in the process and exposing players to risk.
 
FWIW after this thread I spoke to my VIP rep at a casino and he told me they would be pulling out of the UK market but nothing had officially been announced. Time to find a new site for me :oops:

Any chance you can name 'a casino' ??.. pretty worthless comment otherwise

Was always on the cards, thats why Ladbrokes dumped MG

I don't think this is accurate either is it? Theres no suggestion, as far as I am aware, that these operators using MG software is in any way responsible for the pull out, its the new tax that is the issue - the article is just making the point that a bunch of high profile, high quality microgaming casinos are pulling out - at least thats my understanding of it.

Ladbrokes got a better deal from Playtech if I remember rightly, it was a business decision I believe and not related in any way to the upcoming legislation.
 
Think its just a case of wait and see if any casinos do pull out but sure there will be plenty of decent regulated casinos for uk players to use. Ladbrokes going to playtech had nothing to do with it tho as Ladbrokes wanted playtech as they were getting left behind by William hill online and after several attempts managed to get the deal with playtech thinking it would be the answer to all there problems. How wrong they were we will see in the future.
 
but that's what the uk government wonts so if they make the online cashinos who serve the uk get a licence as some wont in English it will get more people on the fobts in the bookies so its win win for them
 
From what I understand it's to put an end to this tax haven in Gib isn't it? Maybe it's about time these companies paid their taxes instead of dodging them for this long? I bet Gib will suffer a lot as a result of this, I'm sure they will be up in arms.

Overall I think it's a bit odd that they have decided to do this right now. I guess the reputable companies will bite the bullet and accept they have to pay proper 15% taxes to the UK government.
 
but would that mean for us in the uk it would mean more wagering on the bonus for us

and 1 times wagering on sky vegas would be a thing of the past as we would be covering the tax not the operators ;)
 
Ok we know the bigger operations like 32red will pay their dues and continue to service the UK market, but IF they are a minority and say 95% of sites currently available do not, then we run the risk of becoming like USA players, scratching around for other places to play then being ripped off as the sites in question would be in some remote town called 'Rogue City' far beyond any real regulatory body.
The irony being that the government has forced large parts of a generally well-run and safe industry away to be replaced by sites of the Rushmore ilk, therefore ruining all the good intentions of the UKGC and in the process and exposing players to risk.

Spot on, but I believe it was never about the consumer anyway - it was to tap into another new tax source, despite all the mealy-mouthed utterances of the politicians.

The impact on Gibraltar, Alderney and Malta in particular will be interesting to see.

Bet365 should do well out of this - they've remained licensed in the UK and paying British taxes, yet they have still achieved impressive business performances and continued to grow, despite losing tens of millions on Stoke City FC...there's little adjustment necessary for them.
 
As expected, the player is the last to hear, and will probably wake up one morning to find their accounts have been blocked overnight with no chance to finish off their promotions and effect an orderly exit.

If it's happening on the 1st of August, players should already have been told by the casino. Even if the plan is to allow existing players to carry on till October we need to know what is happening NOW!

I have asked my VIP rep at Casino Rewards about this, but can't get a straight answer. I can't find a way to see which operators have applied for a UK licence either, which would be a good indicator of intent.

If they are going to keep UK players in the dark, maybe we should all take a few months off until the dust settles, and return to those casinos that obtain a UK license.

If the report has been derived from some discussions with industry reps, then it has more substance than rumour. I will have to assume that casinos in the Digimedia group are "high risk" in that I could be booted without proper notice when half way through some slots tournament or other promotion.

A majority exodus by Microgaming from the UK market may also explain why they pulled all the AWP games "for maintenance" in May, and are in no hurry to complete said "maintenance". These games were aimed at UK players, so will not be needed if UK players are barred.
 
but would that mean for us in the uk it would mean more wagering on the bonus for us

and 1 times wagering on sky vegas would be a thing of the past as we would be covering the tax not the operators ;)

1 times wagering have already gone. I can only see at least 20x wagering now on any of their bonuses. I used to get these as well years back. But seems stopped.
 
As expected, the player is the last to hear, and will probably wake up one morning to find their accounts have been blocked overnight with no chance to finish off their promotions and effect an orderly exit.

If it's happening on the 1st of August, players should already have been told by the casino. Even if the plan is to allow existing players to carry on till October we need to know what is happening NOW!

I have asked my VIP rep at Casino Rewards about this, but can't get a straight answer. I can't find a way to see which operators have applied for a UK licence either, which would be a good indicator of intent. If they are going to keep UK players in the dark, maybe we should all take a few months off until the dust settles, and return to those casinos that obtain a UK license.

If the report has been derived from some discussions with industry reps, then it has more substance than rumour. I will have to assume that casinos in the Digimedia group are "high risk" in that I could be booted without proper notice when half way through some slots tournament or other promotion.

A majority exodus by Microgaming from the UK market may also explain why they pulled all the AWP games "for maintenance" in May, and are in no hurry to complete said "maintenance". These games were aimed at UK players, so will not be needed if UK players are barred.


Check out my UKGC thread just started, there is a search facility for applications both approved and pending..
 
Any chance you can name 'a casino' ??.. pretty worthless comment otherwise

When I'm specifically asked not to name names by the people in question it would be pretty bad form of me to do so. However, they are definitely one of the biggest MG casino groups from what I know. Getting confirmation from a company that they are 100% pulling out of the UK market is hardly a worthless comment though that's is strictly IMO of course.
 
When I'm specifically asked not to name names by the people in question it would be pretty bad form of me to do so. However, they are definitely one of the biggest MG casino groups from what I know. Getting confirmation from a company that they are 100% pulling out of the UK market is hardly a worthless comment though that's is strictly IMO of course.

It's also bad form for THEM because they are intending to hide this from us so that they can shut us out overnight, rather than give us a decent period of notice. It also means that EVERY casino group is now a suspect of having decided to pull out of the UK but not tell UK players in advance so that THEY can decide when to wind down their activity and uninstall the casinos in question. It means UK players could start to desert casinos that are NOT going to pull out of the UK because they not being given the information they need to decide what casinos to stick with.

The only way around this policy of deliberately hiding this information from the players in general is to assume all casinos are pulling out of the UK until they say otherwise, or are seen to hold a UK licence.
 
When I'm specifically asked not to name names by the people in question it would be pretty bad form of me to do so. However, they are definitely one of the biggest MG casino groups from what I know. Getting confirmation from a company that they are 100% pulling out of the UK market is hardly a worthless comment though that's is strictly IMO of course.

Mate it's not worthless to you because you know the name of the company in question! :) But yes, if it is as you say, one of the biggest MG casino groups, it is noteworthy - originally you stated only "a casino" which is a bit like coming on here and saying "a casino is closing" with no further detail, thats all I was getting at, nothing personal.

Are you working in the industry then? Surely if they want to keep it quiet they didnt just tell a random customer on live chat...?
 
1 times wagering have already gone. I can only see at least 20x wagering now on any of their bonuses. I used to get these as well years back. But seems stopped.

is why they have started doing offers if you spend 50 quid on a selected games you get a free 10r to play

and its that why they don't even send out your own offers to your inbox anymore as they used to every couple of months

and I have notice that there games don't play like they used to either
 
I have been doing a bit of research on this for a poker blog piece due to be published tomorrow so I think I have a decent understanding of what is happening here.

First things first, there is no need to panic, Microgaming are not going to pull out of the UK market. It is a legal white market and is about 8% of the global market.

Secondly this is not really about tax, it is about licencing costs and restrictions if you have a UK licence. Sites or skins with little or no UK base may pull out of the UK market so that they do not pay the licencing fees or need to disclose their ownership but some that focus on grey or black markets would not get a UK licence even if they applied.

This new licencing regime will lead to a polarisation of sites - those that serve grey or black (US) markets will not get or apply for a UK licence. Those that target white markets and the legally defensible grey markets will likely get a UK licence. 32Red is heavily UK so the licence fees etc will not stop them operating in the UK.

The B2B setups - Microgaming Playtech and the like will need to get a UK licence, and their B2C partners in the UK market will need one too. It is the B2Cs that are responsible for the player funds and who will face most scrutiny re risky grey markets.

The B2B licence that affect MG has had a bit extraa added to the UKGCs FAQ on the rules just this week. It is still a bit woolly but the FAQ here with the recent changes highlighted in purple gives the situation for MG.

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but when its the law changes will the game testing be by the uk standards

The FAQ says yes - going forward it will be to UK standards. Also RTP disclosure will be required. From 1st January 2015 the software will also have to be from UK licnced software suppliers.

There are some transitional arrangements to avoid retesting but the UKGC is serious about applying its standards to all UK liceneced sites.

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