Is this right?

I have noticed that there are a few (more each day) casinos that now offer players credit.
You actually dont need money to deposit and gamble anymore, instead they can send u a bill to your house.

What do you guys think of this?

Wow! I have never heard of such!

Definitely sounds dangerous!

Pugglepay! I don't like it at all.

On the other side if you have a credit card you can play using your credit anyway.

What is bad is that many that have an income but not yet are worthy a credit card, like young people...can play using this.
Play now - pay later

I also noticed another one besides Pugglepay today.
I think it is horrible and will probably put alot of people at risk - people that will get credit there but not a creditcard since they do not ask for an income or anything like that..

Marie2473 said:

I also noticed another one besides Pugglepay today.
I think it is horrible and will probably put alot of people at risk - people that will get credit there but not a creditcard since they do not ask for an income or anything like that..

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I believe the company that lends you the money do ask for income, and they check so you're trustworthy so far.
If you do miss a payment then you will not get a creditcard for many years.
It's a sad way trapping people.
I don't know though if it's just in Sweden we can use this or if it's everywhere. Do you know, or what do they offer in other countries?

I wonder what payment option you have found, Marie! Can you tell us?

This is the "original" thread about PugglePay:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/eu-casino-play-now-pay-later-pugglepay.54094/?t=54094

Even if a credit card can be used to "play now and pay later", I don't like that kind of payment options.

That sounds like the worst thing ever. Gamble now, pay later? No, no and no! This sounds very irresponsible. Is this place licensed and if so by who?

maphesto said:

I wonder what payment option you have found, Marie! Can you tell us?

This is the "original" thread about PugglePay:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/eu-casino-play-now-pay-later-pugglepay.54094/?t=54094

Even if a credit card can be used to "play now and pay later", I don't like that kind of payment options.

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Look at this site for an example. they list the casinos and the options for billing that they ghave, for an example there is one called Kriita Ab.

There's accredited casinos on that list...

I don't think this is a healthy development, and certainly not along the lines of responsible gambling, but i agree with tirilej in that credit cards aren't much different.

It still all comes down to the player in the end, but let's just say i think these companies aren't providing any real service but are trying to get in the market with a bit of an immoral springboard.

I could see myself tempted under certain circumstances..one of the reasons i never applied for any credit card.

Marie2473 said:

Look at this site for an example. they list the casinos and the options for billing that they ghave, for an example there is one called Kriita Ab.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

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Thanks for that link.

So four different offers of the same kind.
It's even worse than I thought because it seems you could get credit on your mobile phone bill. (need to check that up though since I'm not sure.)


Edit: I was correct. You can pay through your phone bill. I wonder if it's a limit on that one? Awful!

incrediblestuff said:

I don't think this is a healthy development, and certainly not along the lines of responsible gambling, but i agree with tirilej in that credit cards aren't much different.

It still all comes down to the player in the end, but let's just say i think these companies aren't providing any real service but are trying to get in the market with a bit of an immoral springboard.

I could see myself tempted under certain circumstances..one of the reasons i never applied for any credit card.

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I do agree. However, with a credit card the card there is a limit and can be used however the user wishes. As long as the bill is paid it's not an issue. I take issue with this though because it isn't like simply giving someone a credit card. This is giving someone credit purely to gamble. That is not only unhealthy but morally wrong IMO. I've no doubt there is a market for this sort of thing. Bit if you ask me, some markets are best left untapped.

Where there is a demand someone will step in to fill it. I think that all we can hope for is that the backers will find this avenue a dead end and players will see this for what it is.

Unfortunately, this is the world we live in where, for many, the pursuit of the almighty dollar trumps all other pursuits.

This is disgusting those places should be shut down who offer this. And at least acredited casinos should not allow this.

Heck so they let players register new accounts who then lend the money to gamble with??? RESPONSIBLE GAMBLING NO!!!

I am sure it states most places that should only gamble resonsible right??? And only gamble for you own money. That is not the persons own money NO it is those disgusting sites getting people signed up and earning on this together with those Casinos.

Things should be moving the other way with credit cards being phased out.

Those people who can't handle it will be able to chase losses, perhaps thinking that they need to have a win just to pay back the loan, and just get in even deeper. Once they hit the limits, and can't pay it back, the effects will go way beyond them having to quit gambling. The loans will have been distanced from gambling, and end up impacting one's credit worthiness, and this in turn can have major consequences such as not being able to get a mortgage or a decent bank account, let alone a regular credit card.

There is also the issue of how aggressively the companies will pursue bad loans. They are damned if they go in hard by taking people's cars and sofas, but are also damned if they are too soft and people learn that they probably won't have to pay it back. This will create a no lose situation for players willing to try it on, and this could mean smaller casinos suffering cashflow problems due to carrying bad debt as well as having to deal with the variance of a bad spell when many of their players want their winnings out.

vinylweatherman said:

Things should be moving the other way with credit cards being phased out.

Those people who can't handle it will be able to chase losses, perhaps thinking that they need to have a win just to pay back the loan, and just get in even deeper. Once they hit the limits, and can't pay it back, the effects will go way beyond them having to quit gambling. The loans will have been distanced from gambling, and end up impacting one's credit worthiness, and this in turn can have major consequences such as not being able to get a mortgage or a decent bank account, let alone a regular credit card.

There is also the issue of how aggressively the companies will pursue bad loans. They are damned if they go in hard by taking people's cars and sofas, but are also damned if they are too soft and people learn that they probably won't have to pay it back. This will create a no lose situation for players willing to try it on, and this could mean smaller casinos suffering cashflow problems due to carrying bad debt as well as having to deal with the variance of a bad spell when many of their players want their winnings out.

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Well, the casinos will get paid no matter what so they maybe think it's worth the risk offering this.
There are a lot of companies living on trying to collect debts so everything have its own market.

Of course many will be able to pay back in the beginning, but not in the long run.
This seems to just be a Swedish thing so far. Lets hope it will not be spread out to other countries.

We already have had this kind of traps for a few years. Something called sms-loan, where you can take small loans you have to pay back within 30 days.
Never have so many young people in Sweden been in debts, so we already know how easily they can get tricked in.

That is just disgusting. IMO casinos should even be allowed to take credit cards, but the accredited places listed on that page should get the choice of either removing the credit payment option, or get stripped of their accreditation status.

Tirilej said:

We already have had this kind of traps for a few years. Something called sms-loan, where you can take small loans you have to pay back within 30 days.
Never have so many young people in Sweden been in debts, so we already know how easily they can get tricked in.

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That sounds similar to the payday loan system we have in the UK. That's often in the news for the wrong reasons. The problem with these loans is that they are too accessible. Where is the due diligence from these companies? Most of them only ask for proof of ID and income. That's it. No means testing. Nothing afaik. The problem is it's too easy to obtain with too few questions asked. Borrowing money should be a big decision.

That affiliate site (casinofaktura.se) must be the lowest of low. Targeting players who want to play on credit is, imo, utterly disgusting.

onkel said:

That affiliate site (casinofaktura.se) must be the lowest of low. Targeting players who want to play on credit is, imo, utterly disgusting.

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If the guy behind it doesent make enough with his affiliate site I guess we will see him on the corner selling girls or drugs pretty soon.

PugglePay answers

Marie2473 said:

I have noticed that there are a few (more each day) casinos that now offer players credit.
You actually dont need money to deposit and gamble anymore, instead they can send u a bill to your house.

What do you guys think of this?

Click to expand...

Hi Marie,

My name is Johan and I´m one of the founders of PugglePay. If you don´t mind I would like to share some information of how we work. Currently we supply our payment solution to the Scandinavian countries where there is a strong market demand for our solution. Around 29% of all e-commerce in Sweden are handled via invoice solutions. Please see the survey made by the Scandinavian Post office:


PugglePay focus on services industries such as parking, telecom and iGaming.

Our solution works like a “virtual credit” card. However it is very different from credit cards as the average limit is set to 250 EUR per customer. Before a customer can use our solution we do two things:
1) We conduct a KYC process where we verify the identify of the customer (checking name, age, gender, address etc).
2) Once we are sure of the identity of the customer we conduct a credit check on the customer.
Based on the result of the credit check and additional information we make a conservative, responsible assessment of the customer’s capabilities of paying for the goods or services that they have ordered.

Conservative credit checks
We only accept customers with a solid financial status. That is why we are able to take 100% of the credit and fraud risk towards the companies we work with, but also because our solution is all about simplicity and reliability.

We do many things to make sure that our customer select us because of the easiness of our solution rather than the credit. These are just some actions we do to ensure that our solution is only offered to customers that prefers and has the ability to pay via invoice.
- A limit of 250 EUR per customer.
- The invoice shall be paid within 14 days. 14 days is custom in Sweden.
- If the customer is late we only apply 49 SEK (instead of the 60 SEK which Swedish law stipulates).
- The interest rate IF the customer is late with their payment is only 8% on an annual basis (compared to 25%-30% which credit card companies and our competitors charge).
- If a customer is constantly late with their payments we will block them from using our services. This is what we consider to be a corner stone in responsible credit checks.
- We do not add an invoice fee to the customers
- We are the only payment company (at least that we know of) that makes a check on the customers financial health by each every deposit


Please ask your friends in Sweden or Finland to try our service. Regardless if we accept you as a customer or not all users should get a good and friendly experience. Our solution is all about making the payment process as easy and safe as possible; please try our demo version at PugglePay.com.

Please do not hesitate to get back to us if you have any additional questions or thoughts.

All the best!

Johan

Sorry, but this is still exactly as bad as what we have said before.

This kind of option is not ok when it comes to gambling.
I will never ever think it's ok

PugglePay said:

- If the customer is late we only apply 49 SEK (instead of the 60 SEK which Swedish law stipulates).
- The interest rate IF the customer is late with their payment is only 8% on an annual basis (compared to 25%-30% which credit card companies and our competitors charge)

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If a customer is late with the full ammount,lets say by a month, will you then send it to collection, or will you let him keep on paying a reasonable sum.

Here in Norway companies delivering a loan is required to write the interest including any fees for sending bills, administrating the account etc, are your 8% including this?

I agree with Tirilej. I do really question the ethics and morale of people profiting from delivering credit to gamblers, knowing how many that have problems with it.

PugglePay said:

Please ask your friends in Sweden or Finland to try our service. Regardless if we accept you as a customer or not all users should get a good and friendly experience. Our solution is all about making the payment process as easy and safe as possible; please try our demo version at PugglePay.com.

Please do not hesitate to get back to us if you have any additional questions or thoughts.

All the best!

Johan

Click to expand...

You want us to recommend you to people. This is a bad joke, right?

I have a question for you. Do you think it is morally acceptable for a company to actively seek clients and encourage them to owe gambling debts? Because this is what you are doing. It's not a virtual credit card. It's a bill. That's what an invoice is. If it was a credit card then it would be usable for all sorts of things, all on the same bill. This is not the case here. It is a bill for gambling. I find your business model irresponsible. You should be ashamed of yourselves tbh. Car parking etc, fine. But gambling? Over stepping the mark.

don't gamble with money you don't have.
lose money using a credit card and you've lost it twice, once to the casino and again when you have to pay it back.