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Thread: Ruby Fortune "confiscating" over 4000GBP in winnings

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    Ruby Fortune "confiscating" over 4000GBP in winnings

    Hello all,

    I will try keep this short, sweet and factual. I apologise that so soon into my membership here, I am posting a "complaint". On November 20th, I signed up to Ruby Fortune after seeing an advert on Google. I deposited 150gbp, and received 150gbp bonus. I had a big win on slots, circa 5000gbp, and asked live chat what I should do from there. They informed me of the "wagering requirements", which I completed playing only slots.

    I then asked live chat, if I could withdraw my whole balance, they said yes, so I did. No rules were broken, nothing was done wrong, I played slots, won on slots, and withdrew.

    Ruby Fortune then requested my ID documents via email, which I provided. After some back and forth about what ID was required to process the withdrawal, I sent them a scan of my passport, along with some other documents. On November 25th, they then emailed to inform me that they would now require "certified copies" of my ID to process my withdrawal. This is currently in the process of being acquired. Then, on November 26th, I received this email:

    "Hi there "X",

    Account: "XX"

    Following a review of your account, we have identified that you are in breach of the casino’s standard Terms.

    Please refer specifically to the following clause:

    7.6

    ...

    Where a Sign-Up Bonus has been granted to you, subject to you being required to have met all wagering requirements, you will be limited to a maximum withdrawal value of 6 times your first deposit amount and any remaining balance will be forfeited. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.

    Please be advised that a withdrawal of 900.00 will be released upon approval of the requested documents. The remaining balance will be confiscated.

    The Casino’s standard Terms can be viewed in full at: http://www.rubyfortune.com/en/terms-and-conditions/

    Regards,
    Operations Department"

    First, the term which was identified (7.6, http://www.rubyfortune.com/en/terms-and-conditions/) is the only term in their Ts and Cs that has no sub heading (I've taken a print screen as proof, should it be changed at any point) and is not in the bonus section where it surely belongs. Furthermore, I read the Ts and Cs before signing up (to avoid this kindof thing) and I did not see it. I recently looked into signing up at Lucky Nugget casino, and the same clause was in their Ts and Cs, so I asked their live chat, they gave a spluttering answer and I opted not to play. My point is: I read Ts and Cs specifically to find clauses like this, and I did not see it before playing. Second, not once did anyone their company mention this, and I was told I could withdraw the whole balance. They stalled on accepting my ID, then demanded certified copies, THEN sent the above email.

    (On a side note, are clauses like this legal? "This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management." - This is a casino that advertises quite aggressively everywhere, including UK TV. I have never heard, or seen, any mention of this clause ANYWHERE, even after searching many resources on the internet (such as CasinoMeister) since receiving this email)

    I have already contacted Ruby Fortune via live chat and email to try to sort this "internally" in a calm, respectful manner, but I have been told on several occasions the matter is final, and upon receipt of my certified copies of ID they will pay me 900GBP. I have contacted RF via email, live chat, and via their rep on here (who hasn't been active for 4 weeks) with either no response or a flat out "stonewall" that the matter is final and I have "breached" their terms. I informed RF of my plans to take this matter further, including bringing this to casinomeister for advice, and was told that that was my right and I was entitled to do so, as per their live chat rep. He told me the decision was final, but would send the request through to management again. I explained to him in full, that I would seek the help of such outlets as casinomeister in this matter, and would do everything in my power to settle my account, in full, in a mature, respectful and professional manner. I have since been informed, again, the matter is final.

    Basically, I am looking for help/advice of any kind, this is just kindof a "cliffnotes", I have attempted to leave all subjectivity possible out of the matter. I have further things to add, should CasinoMeister be so gracious as to assist me. There are more details to this story, but I just want to put the "barebones" out there to discuss my options.

    Sincerely
    SMcS



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    hakapuku is offline Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (troll)
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    Yes, the rule limiting the bonus winnings to 6 times deposit amount is hidden deep inside general T&C. That is a trick Palace group used to do in the past also. But, unfortunately, you don't have any chances. Because today many players are not paid based on the vague terms like "irregular play", "hedge betting" etc. Here ,at least, we have a clear term. The hidden term but still it is there (somewhere on the website).



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    Quote Originally Posted by slottymcslot View Post
    Hello all,

    I will try keep this short, sweet and factual. I apologise that so soon into my membership here, I am posting a "complaint". On November 20th, I signed up to Ruby Fortune after seeing an advert on Google. I deposited 150gbp, and received 150gbp bonus. I had a big win on slots, circa 5000gbp, and asked live chat what I should do from there. They informed me of the "wagering requirements", which I completed playing only slots.

    I then asked live chat, if I could withdraw my whole balance, they said yes, so I did. No rules were broken, nothing was done wrong, I played slots, won on slots, and withdrew.

    Ruby Fortune then requested my ID documents via email, which I provided. After some back and forth about what ID was required to process the withdrawal, I sent them a scan of my passport, along with some other documents. On November 25th, they then emailed to inform me that they would now require "certified copies" of my ID to process my withdrawal. This is currently in the process of being acquired. Then, on November 26th, I received this email:

    "Hi there "X",

    Account: "XX"

    Following a review of your account, we have identified that you are in breach of the casino’s standard Terms.

    Please refer specifically to the following clause:

    7.6

    ...

    Where a Sign-Up Bonus has been granted to you, subject to you being required to have met all wagering requirements, you will be limited to a maximum withdrawal value of 6 times your first deposit amount and any remaining balance will be forfeited. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.

    Please be advised that a withdrawal of 900.00 will be released upon approval of the requested documents. The remaining balance will be confiscated.

    The Casino’s standard Terms can be viewed in full at: http://www.rubyfortune.com/en/terms-and-conditions/

    Regards,
    Operations Department"

    First, the term which was identified (7.6, http://www.rubyfortune.com/en/terms-and-conditions/) is the only term in their Ts and Cs that has no sub heading (I've taken a print screen as proof, should it be changed at any point) and is not in the bonus section where it surely belongs. Furthermore, I read the Ts and Cs before signing up (to avoid this kindof thing) and I did not see it. I recently looked into signing up at Lucky Nugget casino, and the same clause was in their Ts and Cs, so I asked their live chat, they gave a spluttering answer and I opted not to play. My point is: I read Ts and Cs specifically to find clauses like this, and I did not see it before playing. Second, not once did anyone their company mention this, and I was told I could withdraw the whole balance. They stalled on accepting my ID, then demanded certified copies, THEN sent the above email.

    (On a side note, are clauses like this legal? "This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management." - This is a casino that advertises quite aggressively everywhere, including UK TV. I have never heard, or seen, any mention of this clause ANYWHERE, even after searching many resources on the internet (such as CasinoMeister) since receiving this email)

    I have already contacted Ruby Fortune via live chat and email to try to sort this "internally" in a calm, respectful manner, but I have been told on several occasions the matter is final, and upon receipt of my certified copies of ID they will pay me 900GBP. I have contacted RF via email, live chat, and via their rep on here (who hasn't been active for 4 weeks) with either no response or a flat out "stonewall" that the matter is final and I have "breached" their terms. I informed RF of my plans to take this matter further, including bringing this to casinomeister for advice, and was told that that was my right and I was entitled to do so, as per their live chat rep. He told me the decision was final, but would send the request through to management again. I explained to him in full, that I would seek the help of such outlets as casinomeister in this matter, and would do everything in my power to settle my account, in full, in a mature, respectful and professional manner. I have since been informed, again, the matter is final.

    Basically, I am looking for help/advice of any kind, this is just kindof a "cliffnotes", I have attempted to leave all subjectivity possible out of the matter. I have further things to add, should CasinoMeister be so gracious as to assist me. There are more details to this story, but I just want to put the "barebones" out there to discuss my options.

    Sincerely
    SMcS
    All this is not necessary and you will get nowhere by publicizing your case.

    Ruby Fortune are accredited here, you tried support, you tried contacting the rep. and you got no joy. Next step, if you want a resolution, is probably to file a PAB. I have never done a PAB but I have looked over the guidelines and I don't believe I ever saw where it said you were required to bring it up in the forums first.

    I think the best bet would be to go here http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...?faq=cmfaq_pab read and understand how the process works and let Max do his thing.

    If you decide to do that try to follow the guidelines for the best chance of a resolution and so Max doesn't yell at you.
    Where are we?



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    And this from an accredited casino !

    So yes they had it in there T's and C's , But if it was hidden away in a section it didn't really belong in then thats not fair ,
    Also apart from these RTG casinos with 3/4/500% match bonuses i don't think i have come accross a casino before with a 100% match with a max cashout rule , especially at 6x , That is quite frankly disgusting !

    I'm sure as others have said there completely within there rights to take your money and there is nothing you can do about it ,Just another case of underhanded tactics ,

    Take your winnings and run and avoid them in the future , Based on what you have told me i won't play there again myself either !



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    Quote Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
    All this is not necessary and you will get nowhere by publicizing your case.

    Ruby Fortune are accredited here, you tried support, you tried contacting the rep. and you got no joy. Next step, if you want a resolution, is probably to file a PAB. I have never done a PAB but I have looked over the guidelines and I don't believe I ever saw where it said you were required to bring it up in the forums first.

    I think the best bet would be to go here http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...?faq=cmfaq_pab read and understand how the process works and let Max do his thing.

    If you decide to do that try to follow the guidelines for the best chance of a resolution and so Max doesn't yell at you.
    Hi, thank you so much for responding, it is much appreciated. I am new to this, read the guidelines and fell in line with the protocol as best as I felt I could. I was not sure what to do, whether I could filed a PAB, so I came here with "barebones" details to try and get some advice. I certainly don't want to be breaking any CM rules, or get yelled at by people that may be in a position to help me. If I have broken any rules, I am willing to remove whatever material is asked to be removed by CM admin. I am merely trying to ascertain what my position is in this situation.



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    That was the worst sign up bonus rule I've seen from an accredited casino.
    Thanks for letting me know it even exist so I can avoid all the casinos in that group.

    Please do a PAB and even if you can't get them to change their mind at least they maybe maybe can get to remove that rule.
    Horrible
    if you fall I'll be there
    -ground



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    Agreed, it is a shockingly bad term but it IS there. You are being paid according to it, with the usual delaying tactics about docs hoping you'll reverse the 900. Not good behaviour from ANY casino IMO but especially not an accredited one. I won't say more because you allude to other bits of the story not present which may affect our opinions. Unfortunately they are playing the 'discretion' card and inevitably where there's 'discretion' there is discrimination. But, even if there is a 'cross' term in one part of the T&C's that affects another criteria like bonuses, you could have read them all and cleared it up with CS before playing. Now before you accuse me of being hard on this, I have some sympathy here because the term is to be frank, bollocks and is not one I would expect from a supposedly reputable group.
    A PAB would be unlikely to get a better result as they are following terms, BUT it may establish WHY this 'discretion' wasn't applied in your favour, unless you already know or suspect from the bits you haven't related.
    "Economy is frequently a way of spending money without enjoying it"



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  12. #8
    hakapuku is offline Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (troll)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tirilej View Post
    That was the worst sign up bonus rule I've seen from an accredited casino.
    Thanks for letting me know it even exist so I can avoid all the casinos in that group.

    Please do a PAB and even if you can't get them to change their mind at least they maybe maybe can get to remove that rule.
    Horrible
    There is one more accredited group applying this rule to bonuses: Jackpotcity,Luckynugget, RiverBelle etc. Actually , I think that Palace group copied it from them (word in word). So when playing slots with these bonuses one should pray God not to win too much. And if you try to play any other games than slots at those casinos- you will be called a professional gambler (or advantage player) and will not be paid anyway.



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    Quote Originally Posted by dunover View Post
    Agreed, it is a shockingly bad term but it IS there. You are being paid according to it, with the usual delaying tactics about docs hoping you'll reverse the 900. Not good behaviour from ANY casino IMO but especially not an accredited one. I won't say more because you allude to other bits of the story not present which may affect our opinions. Unfortunately they are playing the 'discretion' card and inevitably where there's 'discretion' there is discrimination. But, even if there is a 'cross' term in one part of the T&C's that affects another criteria like bonuses, you could have read them all and cleared it up with CS before playing. Now before you accuse me of being hard on this, I have some sympathy here because the term is to be frank, bollocks and is not one I would expect from a supposedly reputable group.
    A PAB would be unlikely to get a better result as they are following terms, BUT it may establish WHY this 'discretion' wasn't applied in your favour, unless you already know or suspect from the bits you haven't related.
    Thank you for your very balanced, unbias response. What I allude to, and I guess I was purposefully unclear on this, was that I read the Ts and Cs in full BEFORE signing up and playing, and I did not see this 6x clause, hence why I mentioned Lucky Nugget, as I read their Ts and Cs, and saw this EXACT clause and for that reason did not signup to play there. Furthermore, this is the ONLY clause in their Ts and Cs that is not headed. I am trying to talks in pure facts and not subjectivity. I am not holding anything "back" per se, I am just trying to be careful and respectful of the situation as I want to resolve this with Ruby Fortune. They have told me several times the matter is final, so I have no choice but to seek other avenues. May I further add, if I have broken/stretched any rules by anything I've psoted in this thread, if a CM admin would inform me of what that is I will do so immediately.

    Thank you again



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    Just to let you know, in the swedish version of T&C:s the text about maximum withdrawal is gone.

    Compare for yourself, I will bolden the text in the English version which os gone in the swedish one:

    English version:

    7.6

    Players who withdraw a sum of money that is 5 times or more greater than their lifetime deposits across all The Palace Group casinos will only be able to withdraw their winnings at a sum of €4,000 per week. The remaining amount will be placed back in the player's account until such time that they are eligible for a further withdrawal. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.

    Where a Sign-Up Bonus has been granted to you, subject to you being required to have met all wagering requirements, you will be limited to a maximum withdrawal value of 6 times your first deposit amount and any remaining balance will be forfeited. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.


    Swedish version:

    7.6

    Spelare som tar ut en summa pengar som är 5 gånger större än deras sammanlagda insättninger på alla casinon inom The Palace Group kommer endast att kunna ta ut deras vinster i omgångar om 4,000€ per vecka. Eventuell återstående summa kommer att återföras till spelarens konto för att invänta att denna uttagsgräns nollställs. Denna regel kommer endast att tillämpas efter beslut av casinoledningen. Alla progressiva vinster är undantag ifrån denna regel.


    And now to the interesting part folks, according to wayback machine, this is how rule 7.6 looked like in the English version aug this year:

    7.6

    Players who withdraw a sum of money that is 5 times or more greater than their lifetime deposits across all The Palace Group casinos will only be able to withdraw their winnings at a sum of €4,000 per week. The remaining amount will be placed back in the player's account until such time that they are eligible for a further withdrawal. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.


    Rules changed nov 22... two days after OP signed up! They've added the thing about maximum withdrawal AFTER OP signed up!


    1 members found this post helpful.

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