Any FOBT (UK) players here ?

I know this isn't strictly "on-line casino" related but I don't see a more suitable forum (sorry if I am blind) and wanted to ask if any members here play the machines in the betting shops here in the UK?

I had not set foot in a bookies until earlier this year when I got a £10 shop voucher after playing on-line at Coral. I played Rainbow Riches at 50p a spin, first 10 spins hit absolutely nothing and I laughed at how poor the odds must be compared to on-line - but then I hit £65.00 a couple of spins later (in the main game too!) I walked away with that, as it was enough to make a difference to me that day, but of course that intrigued me enough to go back.

Since then I have tried the machines at Ladbrokes (terrible luck, never won a thing) and William Hill (some good, some bad). I mostly play the blackjack now, but I'd be interested to hear if anybody knows which bookies has video poker with a half decent pay table (double double bonus preferably?) or the best slots and/or versions of blackjack etc? The Microgaming and NetEnt games are not available anywhere to the best of my knowledge are they? I'm not really a fan of roulette, though that does seem to be the most popular game by a long way here in Leeds.

I'd most like to know - is ANYBODY lifetime ahead on these machines? Do you believe the games are fair? Which machines have robbed you blind and which have given you the odd good weekend?

i play them alot at my local betfred although mainly roulette and rainbow riches, had plenty of massive wins on roulette not so good on the slots though, they can be brilliant one minute then complete bugers the next i find, my friend is manager at my local shop and i get him to tell me which have paid and which havnt etc and also how much they have taken through day and paid out etc but even that is no guide to when they will pay as some days they will just take take take, his best way of calling them was the worst drug in the world because they ruin you so quickly atleast online you can sort of keep a handle on it but iv seen so many people get upto 500-1000 on roulette then blow it all at 100 a spin knowing damn well they wont get more than they got too but just cant help themselves doing that "one last spin" i find it is alot worse than online but thats just my observations. also think roulette is most popular nationwide for it but dont quote me on that . im way down online but know for a fact im up on the machines as i keep a firm handle on it seen too many people feeding in 20s like there using toilet paper...

I do find that these machines SEEM to pay out more often at certain times of the day, theoretically though these machines are supposed to work purely on the fixed odds so whether they have paid out already that day or not should mean nothing but it's hard to shake that feeling sometimes isn't it!

It's really scary seeing how much some people put into these machines though, not sure why but indians/asians seem to be particularly crazy on them, I'm used to seeing them with wallets jam packed full of cash just around town in shops etc but watching them feed a 5k wedge into the roulette in less than 10 minutes REALLY makes you wonder where on earth they get their money from ?!

I like to go in a couple of times a day with a tenner or so and try turn it into £20-£30, then call it a day. Most days I do manage to make an overall profit, and as long as I don't go in there with a pocket full of money I'm okay ...

I was hoping there might be a few more stories here - do most of you actively avoid these ? Simply prefer playing in the comfort of your home? Or prefer the games on-line maybe?

FOBT is a variation that may need a new section here.

catapultaudio said:

I do find that these machines SEEM to pay out more often at certain times of the day, theoretically though these machines are supposed to work purely on the fixed odds so whether they have paid out already that day or not should mean nothing but it's hard to shake that feeling sometimes isn't it!

It's really scary seeing how much some people put into these machines though, not sure why but indians/asians seem to be particularly crazy on them, I'm used to seeing them with wallets jam packed full of cash just around town in shops etc but watching them feed a 5k wedge into the roulette in less than 10 minutes REALLY makes you wonder where on earth they get their money from ?!

I like to go in a couple of times a day with a tenner or so and try turn it into £20-£30, then call it a day. Most days I do manage to make an overall profit, and as long as I don't go in there with a pocket full of money I'm okay ...

I was hoping there might be a few more stories here - do most of you actively avoid these ? Simply prefer playing in the comfort of your home? Or prefer the games on-line maybe?

Click to expand...

Fixed Odds Betting Terminals are quite a different animal to online slots, the machines vary RTP according to bet stake, I would guess online players not from the UK who are not aware of them would be up in arms at the variation of RTP, for example a £0.50 stake would offer a RTP of 88%, a £1.00 stake 90% and a £2.00 stake maybe 92 or 94% RTP. The RTP is very low compared to online, yes there are reasons, bricks and mortar costs and staff etc.

By their nature they encourage increasing stakes to achieve the best possible payback with obviously the inherit risks, the roulette games are so dangerous, in that I mean if you signed up to a reputable online casino you can set your stake limit and bet limit per day or week, sometimes the game of gambling that we like to call entertainment can go off the rails, the online model would prevent this going mad within a time period with agreed limits in place. With FOBT machines you could be playing at £1.00 a stake for say a hundred plays and get little return only to try to recover losses by upping the stake to £100 a time. This madness can be replicated within an eight second period play cycle and will continue until the player loses all their money, or hopefully they win or cut their losses. There are no safeguards in place; staffs have no right to stop people losing a month’s wages unless the players become abusive towards them of others in the shop.

Yeah sure you can go overboard online by increasing limits but usually there needs to a calming off period that is enough to say to one perhaps I shall stick to my usual limits and the game I had last night went from entertainment to madness, this happens, been there.

Time of day for winning on a FOBT is just a feeling or good luck, they adhere to the fixed odds maths model, you could argue that the more the machine has not paid the better chance that a big hit is coming but the B3 model revision as opposed to the old section 16 model further suggests that the AWP mind-set that older players in the UK have is far from guaranteed.

The slots have profiles not unlike online types with some that can go many thousands without a decent win and others that regularly drop in small wins.

To summarise:-

Negatives:

1. £500 limit on a single win no matter the stake.

2. People with questionable language skills asking what you are doing and how you just won.

3. People with questionable language skills asking what you are doing when you are losing.

4. People with questionable language skills that think going to the toilet (when you are desperate enough to do that) gives them the right to play the credits left in the machine not unlike a gift from Santa you left them to use.

5. Damp people or the homeless that think when you have won a little this needs a share with me moment because they have been hard done by and the fact that you have earned the money to play is almost irrelevant.

6. Bonus incentives that involve Luke warm highly diluted fruit based (to use a loose term) squash with disposable cups that look like they have been reused.

7. Staff that say they don’t have enough money in the safe and you’ll have to come back tomorrow.

8. Lastly staff that think the use a mobile phone while playing a machine may somehow affect the gameplay and ask you not point it in the direction of the console.

Positives:

1. You don’t need documents to verify when being paid out.

Andy Walker said:

Fixed Odds Betting Terminals are quite a different animal to online slots, the machines vary RTP according to bet stake, I would guess online players not from the UK who are not aware of them would be up in arms at the variation of RTP, for example a £0.50 stake would offer a RTP of 88%, a £1.00 stake 90% and a £2.00 stake maybe 92 or 94% RTP. The RTP is very low compared to online, yes there are reasons, bricks and mortar costs and staff etc.

By their nature they encourage increasing stakes to achieve the best possible payback with obviously the inherit risks, the roulette games are so dangerous, in that I mean if you signed up to a reputable online casino you can set your stake limit and bet limit per day or week, sometimes the game of gambling that we like to call entertainment can go off the rails, the online model would prevent this going mad within a time period with agreed limits in place. With FOBT machines you could be playing at £1.00 a stake for say a hundred plays and get little return only to try to recover losses by upping the stake to £100 a time. This madness can be replicated within an eight second period play cycle and will continue until the player loses all their money, or hopefully they win or cut their losses. There are no safeguards in place; staffs have no right to stop people losing a month’s wages unless the players become abusive towards them of others in the shop.

Yeah sure you can go overboard online by increasing limits but usually there needs to a calming off period that is enough to say to one perhaps I shall stick to my usual limits and the game I had last night went from entertainment to madness, this happens, been there.

Time of day for winning on a FOBT is just a feeling or good luck, they adhere to the fixed odds maths model, you could argue that the more the machine has not paid the better chance that a big hit is coming but the B3 model revision as opposed to the old section 16 model further suggests that the AWP mind-set that older players in the UK have is far from guaranteed.

The slots have profiles not unlike online types with some that can go many thousands without a decent win and others that regularly drop in small wins.

To summarise:-

Negatives:

1. £500 limit on a single win no matter the stake.

2. People with questionable language skills asking what you are doing and how you just won.

3. People with questionable language skills asking what you are doing when you are losing.

4. People with questionable language skills that think going to the toilet (when you are desperate enough to do that) gives them the right to play the credits left in the machine not unlike a gift from Santa you left them to use.

5. Damp people or the homeless that think when you have won a little this needs a share with me moment because they have been hard done by and the fact that you have earned the money to play is almost irrelevant.

6. Bonus incentives that involve Luke warm highly diluted fruit based (to use a loose term) squash with disposable cups that look like they have been reused.

7. Staff that say they don’t have enough money in the safe and you’ll have to come back tomorrow.

8. Lastly staff that think the use a mobile phone while playing a machine may somehow affect the gameplay and ask you not point it in the direction of the console.

Positives:

1. You don’t need documents to verify when being paid out.

Click to expand...

This is very similar to the old days of playing the AWPs. It was an unwritten rule, and thus good manners, to accept that leaving the machine with a credit or two left meant "reserved", and should be honoured for a long enough time so that the original player could return with more change, a drink, or empty bladder. Old habits die hard, and although there is no point in reserving any kind of random machine, the AWP mindset still tells the player that they can still "force" the machine to return to RTP if they keep playing.

I also encountered the "experts" who knew all the tricks, and would offer to win for you, yet never seemed to have any money of their own, so needed a small gratuity after having shown you the bleedin' obvious.

The paranoia about mobile phones still exists, yet it has never been demonstrated that any of the scare stories are real.

I suspect it stems from the days of the "clicker", which could deliver a high voltage shock that could sometimes cause the machine to misrecord a payout, and thus by repeated use empty it. They were made from gas cooker spark lighters, not mobile phones. Decent shielding of the sensitive components should have eliminated such risks.

I even encountered the motorway nomads, who for a modest gratuity could sometimes provide some very useful information, but could equally sell you a heap of bullshit for their "quid for a cuppa", which often didn't make it past the next fruitie, let alone the café.

Wow! I'm new to this "world" but I can safely say that you seem to know what you're talking about. The clicker was a thing? Any documentary on other ways the gambling industry has suffered from "tools" or "experts"? Don't want to become one or anything, but it does seem like an interesting subject.
________________________
Steve Works
*snip*

catapultaudio said:

I'd most like to know - is ANYBODY lifetime ahead on these machines?

Click to expand...

Lots of people are ahead due to generous online casino bonuses. But, you need discipline and knowledge to make it profitable.

EDIT: I just realised that OP is talking only about land based facilities. Never mind my comment.

Steve Works said:

Wow! I'm new to this "world" but I can safely say that you seem to know what you're talking about. The clicker was a thing? Any documentary on other ways the gambling industry has suffered from "tools" or "experts"? Don't want to become one or anything, but it does seem like an interesting subject.
________________________
Steve Works
*snip*

Click to expand...

You should look for a "Fruit machine" site or forum. This is where you will find out more on what used to be going on. It's rather different now, so most of the old tricks would have been designed out of the machines, especially given that with the current £100 and £500 jackpot limits (against £6-£8 when these tricks were at their peak) means that there is far more money to "empty" from each machine now.

Steve Works said:

Wow! I'm new to this "world" but I can safely say that you seem to know what you're talking about. The clicker was a thing? Any documentary on other ways the gambling industry has suffered from "tools" or "experts"? Don't want to become one or anything, but it does seem like an interesting subject.
________________________
Steve Works
*snip*

Click to expand...

I had a clicker that I used for video games, never found a frutie that it worked on but I was just a kid so access to them was an issue.

Lifetime ahead? There may be a couple but its like any game that is RTP below 100 the more you play the more sure your loss.

The Gambling Commission got the data from 80% of all these machines (not Bet Fred) and crunched the numbers. This is how it worked out by session:

Old / Expired Link

3. Session outcomes
Not surprisingly, 69% of sessions result in a net loss to the player. Of those sessions that end in a net
win, more than half (55%) are less than £25. The same sample also shows that a higher percentage
of B3 sessions result in a net loss (74%) compared to B2 sessions (67%).
A small but significant proportion of sessions result in high losses or wins. For B2-only sessions,
5.9% of sessions result in a loss of more than £100 and 5.2% in a win of more than £100. For B3
sessions the comparable figures are 4.0% and 3.8%. For sessions that combine B2 and B3 play,
9.2% of sessions result in a loss of £100 or more and 5.9% result in a win of £100 or more.

Click to expand...

Richas said:

I had a clicker that I used for video games, never found a frutie that it worked on but I was just a kid so access to them was an issue.

Click to expand...

Maygay were unusually susceptible. Pink Panther, Eastenders, etc.

I met a pair who showed me how they worked on a number of these games.

It turned out that another trick that worked was to switch the machine off at the wall as it was counting up the win, and then switch it back on. You didn't need to be "tooled up" for this either. It had the same effect as a clicker, you could eventually empty the machine. This too worked mostly on Maygay machines. It all seems to have been down to programming, the win was credited to the player at the start of the count up, but only recorded against current RTP at the end. By switching off the machine mid count, the win was paid, but not recorded against RTP. This effectively made it a "free win emptier", the most common type.

Many locations now make it impossible to reach the power switch of the machines, and if you are spotted turning machines off and on repeatedly, you are going to be under suspicion and probably get thrown out.

A clicker in this case can be used to make it appear that the machine itself is randomly resetting, so the blame would be on a faulty machine, rather than the player using an "empty" on it.

vinylweatherman said:

Many locations now make it impossible to reach the power switch of the machines, and if you are spotted turning machines off and on repeatedly, you are going to be under suspicion and probably get thrown out.

Click to expand...

It's been a while since I have played a fruity, the Gibraltar variants are not quite as entertaining, but I seem to recall that some machines now sound an alarm when switched off and back on?

Mark_32Red said:

It's been a while since I have played a fruity, the Gibraltar variants are not quite as entertaining, but I seem to recall that some machines now sound an alarm when switched off and back on?

Click to expand...

Many did here, but in places like motorway services the staff didn't give a toss, so it was freely done. However, some services employed security staff, and these did sometimes crack down on obvious misbehaviour. The problem was, it takes a player to spot the difference between normal play and someone "up to no good".

I was in a big services once when a crowd of people surrounded a machine, and it kept going off and on, bleeping a little alarm each time. Despite CCTV and supposed security, no one put a stop to it. To me, they were clearly up to something, rather than playing normally. They would never have gotten away with this in an arcade or family leisure centre.

I was even told a tale that one night, some people came with a van and bolt cutters, and stole a couple of machines in full view of the night shift and a couple of customers. The staff did not intervene as it was unsafe to do so, and by the time the police got there, the thieves were gone. Well, this was the excuse I was given when I asked what had happened to my favourite machines that visit

The arcades are much more secure now. The motorway ones have more rigorous checks and CCTV, and some even have a permanent member of security staff just for the machine areas, mostly to enforce the strict 18+ laws, but also to make sure no one tries any blatant "empties".

Interesting topic on "clicking"
I used to run an amusement arcade back in 1998-2001.
In all that time I've had 3 machines run empty due to 2 blokes with some sort of clicker!
1 was a electrocoin's mab super fruits, barcrest's action pack (proper classic!) and can't remember the other one.
I was down by about £300, By reading meters.
The rest were fine.
I made the supplier to take back the mab super fruits!

Mark_32Red said:

It's been a while since I have played a fruity, the Gibraltar variants are not quite as entertaining, but I seem to recall that some machines now sound an alarm when switched off and back on?

Click to expand...

It's nice to know the people working at casinos have some love for gambling as well

Truth is Mark some had an off-on alarm some did not. It was more common than it was not. Check for yourself, just get hold of one of the (Widely available) fruit machine emulators and get a range of roms of games from different manufacturers then try simulating a turn off-on yourself you will hear the alarm!

As regards the outrageous stories being shared I will add one of a crime which was told to me by some random a long time ago so I have no idea if it is true or not. Apparently a group of thugs wanted to steal xxx fruit machine. The way they achieved this was to get dressed up in overalls and park a van outside the pub. They then walked in and told the barstaff they were there to change the machine over (machines frequently changed in pubs). Having done that they unplugged the machine, carried it into the van and drove off! Insane.

Steve Works said:

Wow! I'm new to this "world" but I can safely say that you seem to know what you're talking about. The clicker was a thing? Any documentary on other ways the gambling industry has suffered from "tools" or "experts"? Don't want to become one or anything, but it does seem like an interesting subject.
________________________
Steve Works
*snip*

Click to expand...

There was actually a really good documentary on "cheating Vegas" or something like that with an episode interviewing an admitted long-time cheater - they filmed him in darkened profile, and he explained many of the historical and current cheat methods - it's available on Youtube, and yes, the clicker is covered, lol. I don't have a link handy, but if I can find it, I will repost it here.

fun4all said:

It's nice to know the people working at casinos have some love for gambling as well

Truth is Mark some had an off-on alarm some did not. It was more common than it was not. Check for yourself, just get hold of one of the (Widely available) fruit machine emulators and get a range of roms of games from different manufacturers then try simulating a turn off-on yourself you will hear the alarm!

As regards the outrageous stories being shared I will add one of a crime which was told to me by some random a long time ago so I have no idea if it is true or not. Apparently a group of thugs wanted to steal xxx fruit machine. The way they achieved this was to get dressed up in overalls and park a van outside the pub. They then walked in and told the barstaff they were there to change the machine over (machines frequently changed in pubs). Having done that they unplugged the machine, carried it into the van and drove off! Insane.

Click to expand...

This is a common deception, and has also been used to tamper with chip & pin terminals whilst the staff look on unaware that a major fraud is unfolding before their eyes. This was how Shell fuel stations got done over shortly after chip & pin was rolled out, and they had to resort to the old method at ALL their forecourts whilst they and the banks cleaned up the mess. It has happened to other retail outlets, and it seems the weakness is that staff are taken in by "engineers" who turn up looking the part, and simply comply, rather than challenge them to prove who they are and that they have permission for the works.

Yes, it's so easy if you have the front, see here:

I have no problem gambling online but there is no chance you would get me on a FOBT. Why on Earth would you want to play something that you know has worse odds than you can get elsewhere?

dusky said:

I have no problem gambling online but there is no chance you would get me on a FOBT. Why on Earth would you want to play something that you know has worse odds than you can get elsewhere?

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This I agree with I mean I enjoy a good gamble and have had an occasional punt on FOBT's but the odds are just so terrible. Blackjack with the absolute worst rules, video poker with the worst paytables. Slots with far lower RTP's than online.

Don't get the popularity

dusky said:

I have no problem gambling online but there is no chance you would get me on a FOBT. Why on Earth would you want to play something that you know has worse odds than you can get elsewhere?

Click to expand...

Well it is sort of the opposite really. Whilst b3 games tend to be behind the online equivalents the B2 content is pretty much the same. The diference is that on the FOBTs you can get the RTP fully disclosed and it is audited and reported to the regulator.

Online there are many games where you do not know the RTP or te optimal play, you don't know if it has been changed either. The reporting requirement beat online today - though the RTP disclosure is coming for online UK operators on 1 Nov.

Fobts aren’t random

Devontheman said:

Fobts aren’t random

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Unlike posting to bump a 4 year old thread

Well the thread was still open and free to post so why not? Best regards pj.

I do play occasionally why does it always go next door to your number or suddenly you just stop winning? This is “20p” roulette any replies would be great thanks