Resolved 17,000 non payment by Videoslots.com

Talithu7

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Location
London
I won in Videoslots.com casino 17,000, from an 800 match bonus.

They claimed that I reduced the bet by 75%.
This is far from truth as I placed 100 and then 45.

When I asked why they think I did 75% reduction.
They gave a very odd reply that make it obvious they simply dont want to pay

They said that the bet per line determine and not the total bet as the terms clearly indicate.

How far can they go in their excuses to avoid paying winnings?
 
I won in Videoslots.com casino 17,000, from an 800 match bonus.

They claimed that I reduced the bet by 75%.
This is far from truth as I placed 100 and then 45.

When I asked why they think I did 75% reduction.
They gave a very odd reply that make it obvious they simply dont want to pay

They said that the bet per line determine and not the total bet as the terms clearly indicate.

How far can they go in their excuses to avoid paying winnings?

Have you read this ?

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/video-slots-is-enforcing-predatory-max-bet-terms.52066/

These warnings are to help us avoid mistakes and/or playing at casinos who do not play fair.

Not sure whether this applies in your case but worth a read.
 
Thanks for the link.

in my case, I do not think there is any starting of a claim of breaking the terms.


Is there a single person that reads "bet size" as "bet size per line"
here is the term they say I broke

(ii) placing large bets which result in a substantial gain followed by a drop in bet size equal to or more than seventy five percent of the previous average bet size until the bonus release requirements have been met;


Any mention of "line bet"?


These guys are deteriorating. in the link mentioned they kind of took the terms to the edge.
Now they are inventing terms.


I told them that with "bet size" being manipulated into "line bet", means that their maximum allowed bet will be 100 credits *per line*


They are obviously busy taking stock on all the players whose winnings are now re-instated due to the new reading of their own terms :rolleyes:


Have you read this ?

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/video-slots-is-enforcing-predatory-max-bet-terms.52066/

These warnings are to help us avoid mistakes and/or playing at casinos who do not play fair.

Not sure whether this applies in your case but worth a read.
 
The terms in the other thread state that the max bet is $10 per hand/spin.

You bet $100 and $45 yes?

Do they have a max % term as well? Your $100 bet would be 25% of your bonus which is fairly high.

Maybe you could post the terms for the bonus for us?

Did you notice the 75% drop refers to AVERAGE bet not highest bet? Unless you bet $100 every hand your average will be lower.

Did you make big bets on bj or roulette at the start then drop right back and grind?
 
Nifty,

I have only played slots. 100 first and then 45. No Blackjack no roulette.

They have deleted the 10% max bet rule. the only rule now is 100 max bet.

I will post the bonus terms soon.
 
Terms of bonus here

here are the full terms as they are on their website right now.

You are allowed to have one activated bonus at a time. If you have an active bonus and want to activate a new one, you need to inactivate the old one first. Any winnings earned with the old bonus will be forfeited if you inactivate it.
During a bonus qualification, you are only allowed to play in certain game categories, and those are video slots, slots and scratch cards (exceptions are Scrooge and progressive Jackpot games). Roulette, blackjack, video poker and other games generate a lower contribution to your bonus conversion - 10% of the wagered amount rather than 100%. For example, if you wager £100 in roulette or blackjack, £10 are added to the wager requirement of your current bonus. If you try to enter a non-qualifying game, a warning message will appear, and if you decide to play that game anyway, all bonus money and winnings will be refunded to the casino.
Your bonus money will be paid out in 10% increments
Your bonus will be automatically inactivated if you make a single or multiple bets over £100.
Casino bonuses are only valid in casino games on www.videoslots.com.
No player shall have more than one account. If we discover multiple accounts we reserve the right to gather all funds in the first account registered by the player, and to close down the other accounts. Any remaining bonuses will be forfeited.
Bonuses are intended to spice up our players gaming experience, and they are to be used in that manner. Any bonus abuse according to “4.3 Bonus abuse” will lead to blocked accounts and forfeited winnings and bonuses.
Videoslots.com reserves the right to amend the bonus terms and structure at any given time.
At Videoslots.com it is optional to activate a bonus. You either use a bonus code when you deposit, or go to My bonuses to activate.
4.2 Videoslots shall not be liable for playing device malfunctions nor attempts by Player to participate in the Games by methods, means or ways not intended by Videoslots. Videoslots reserves the right to cancel Player's Account for any reason and issue any balance in Player's Account at the time of such cancellation.

4.3 Further explanation of bonus abuse:
Playing through the qualification period of any bonus in a form of irregular or spacious game play is subject for review by Videoslots.com. If we have good grounds to suspect that you have sought out only to exploit a given bonus, offered by us in good faith to enhance your entertainment, Videoslots.com reserves the right to withhold cash ins and/or confiscating all winnings generating from such given bonus/deposit.

Further examples of irregular playing patterns also include, but are not limited to:

(i) placing single or multiple bets of a value of fifty percent or more of the bonus on any single game , individual hand, or round, building a balance and significantly changing play patterns (bet size, game types, bet structures etc) in order to meet the bonus release requirement;
(ii) placing large bets which result in a substantial gain followed by a drop in bet size equal to or more than seventy five percent of the previous average bet size until the bonus release requirements have been met;
(iii) if We have good grounds to suspect that you have sought only to exploit a bonus offered by Us in good faith to enhance your entertainment (for example, on acceptance of a bonus, the minimum wagering requirement is met and funds are subsequently withdrawn). In the event that We deem that an irregular playing pattern has taken place, We reserve the right to prevent you from cashing out Account funds and/or withhold any of Your winnings derived from Your use of the bonus.


It is under terms and conditions in their website
 
Interesting.

Is it possible, that you have made the 75% drop in bet size at some stage?
From where I stand, if you go from 10 to 2.50, it is against the rules.

But that can happen to anyone at any casino and usually will be ignored at good casino,
if it concerned honest player.
In your case, I am not surprised you have all this hassle.

Bonuses are being issued for entertainment purposes and while we all want to make
the playthrough, betting 100 a spin on 800 bonus is bonus abuse in my book.

Unfortunately for the casino the max bet is 100, which is very high.

If you want to PAB, read the rules and try to do so.
 
Never went below 45

I never played below 45 and never above 100. I played only 100 and 45.

The casino is not denying that. They only managed to come up with the convoluted bet per line invention.
 
"(ii) placing large bets which result in a substantial gain followed by a drop in bet size equal to or more than seventy five percent of the previous average bet size until the bonus release requirements have been met;"

Well, it doesn't say bet size, it says average bet size. So if you wager 100 euro on 5 lines in 1 spin, your average bet size is €20. Which is "high risk bet" and will give a high return if you win. Then if you lower the bet to 50 euro and bet on 10 lines you would have an average bet size of €5, this will have a much lower risk and you can easily wager the bonus without losing too much.

So this is a breach of their terms and conditions.

Next time read the terms and conditions before you accept a bonus and if you don't understand them ask the support to explain.
 
"(ii) placing large bets which result in a substantial gain followed by a drop in bet size equal to or more than seventy five percent of the previous average bet size until the bonus release requirements have been met;"

Predatory in the highest degree... Do they expect you to continue betting like a nutcase?:p

Nate
 
Predatory in the highest degree... Do they expect you to continue betting like a nutcase?:p

Nate

I have seen this rule before, on partycasino and some other casinos. However, betting like this ( 100 per spin ) then winning big and adjusting your bet only to be able to wagering the bonus with no risk, is bonus abuse in my opinion, only a way to try to trick the casino.

I do think it strange that the casino allows high bets like this during bonus play, they are just asking for trouble.
 
Welcome to the forum casino representative. (if I understand it correctly ;))

If you had read the thread you had realized that average bet size refers to when people make bets of varied sizes.

Average usually means *average* .


In the English language, there are ways to say bet per line. and *average bet size* is not one of them.
 
Hi, I’m the casino representative for Videoslots.com.

I have already spoken to Talitha through email and I have checked this issue with the management, and have replied back accordingly.

Unfortunately you have breached one of our bonus abuse terms.
You wagered a total £100 per spin with an average bet size of £20 per line. Then after the third spin you won a substantial win and reduced your average bet size to £5 per line.

As you can read in our terms and conditions, you are not allowed to reduce your average bet size equal to 75% or more during a bonus qualification after a substantial win.

Therefore this is a clear case of breach of terms and conditions even though you may personally not agree with the particular term, you have though accepted these terms when you had registered on our site. Moreover, your Original deposit amount was returned to your account.

If you have any further complaints, we recommend you to do a PAB.

Best Regards,
Lucas
 
The OP should PAB.

I would take bet size to mean total bet, not line bet.

Betting $45 a spin is not exactly risk free behaviour.

I don't agree, and unluckily for the OP I think the casinos wording is correct. When you play slots, you first choose the bet/coin size, then you choose amount of lines which equals to the total wager/bet. They have specified in the term "bet size" not "total bet".

I also recommend the REP/Casino to write an example to describe this term for its customers. It will be easier to understand.
 
I don't agree, and unluckily for the OP I think the casinos wording is correct. When you play slots, you first choose the bet/coin size, then you choose amount of lines which equals to the total wager/bet. They have specified in the term "bet size" not "total bet".

this is just play with words. average person will understand bet size as the total bet.
 
I don't agree, and unluckily for the OP I think the casinos wording is correct. When you play slots, you first choose the bet/coin size, then you choose amount of lines which equals to the total wager/bet. They have specified in the term "bet size" not "total bet".

I also recommend the REP/Casino to write an example to describe this term for its customers. It will be easier to understand.

So, if I play 25 lines at 1 coin per line my betsize is different as when I'm playing 25 coins on 1 line?:confused:
Betsize and total bet are the same in my book.

I can see the casino's POV, but I think the term is not very clear.

Difficult one this one, I would file a PAB if I were the OP.
 
So, if I play 25 lines at 1 coin per line my betsize is different as when I'm playing 25 coins on 1 line?:confused:
Betsize and total bet are the same in my book.

I can see the casino's POV, but I think the term is not very clear.

Difficult one this one, I would file a PAB if I were the OP.

Betting 25 coins on 1 line is a high risk bet, if you bet 1 coin on 25 lines its a low risk bet. Its a lot of bonus abusers using this strategy. You go in bet high on a few lines like the OP win big, change game and spread your risk with smaller bets on more lines (low risk bets) only to clear the bonus in a safe way not to lose too much. Easy way to beat a bonus as long as you get away with it :)

I think you will see more and more casinos protecting themselves with these kind of terms.
 
there is a difference between bet size and total bet, look at the scatter win on the paytable of most games and scatter wins pay according to the total bet whereas symbol wins are multiplied by the # of coins on the payline.

the trouble is in the design of the online games/casinos, they allow for too large a bet range.

if the online casinos were designed like land casinos where its banks of slots based on coin size, there would be no need for a rats nest of complicated bonus rules.
 
Pich A Bitch started

I opened a PAB.

I will refrain from posting in the meanwhile. (but I have a few things burning on my tongue :notworthy)
 
I also don't see how the casino can use this term to deny winnings. The way the casino is interpreting the term is clearly predatory and opportunistic. There is absolutely nothing about changing the line bet (just overall bet size) and it seems they are making up the rules as they go along. Very, very poor form in my book. They should be ashamed.


"placing large bets which result in a substantial gain followed by a drop in bet size equal to or more than seventy five percent of the previous average bet size until the bonus release requirements have been met"
 
Hi, I’m the casino representative for Videoslots.com.

Unfortunately you have breached one of our bonus abuse terms.
You wagered a total £100 per spin with an average bet size of £20 per line. Then after the third spin you won a substantial win and reduced your average bet size to £5 per line.

As you can read in our terms and conditions, you are not allowed to reduce your average bet size equal to 75% or more during a bonus qualification after a substantial win.

Therefore this is a clear case of breach of terms and conditions even though you may personally not agree with the particular term, you have though accepted these terms when you had registered on our site. Moreover, your Original deposit amount was returned to your account.

If you have any further complaints, we recommend you to do a PAB.

Best Regards,
Lucas

You sure you guys are running a casino? this term is terrible and I must say you should be on the rogue list, casinos can have what ever t&c they like but this term is a trap and I remember a couple of cases where you have used it to deny winning when the player could not help but bet lower due to there balance and it is plain wrong. How much have you guys saved by using this term so vaguely?

You guys had such potential in the beginning and now you are on quite a few websites as "not recommended".
 
Last edited:
Hi, I’m the casino representative for Videoslots.com.

I have already spoken to Talitha through email and I have checked this issue with the management, and have replied back accordingly.

Unfortunately you have breached one of our bonus abuse terms.
You wagered a total £100 per spin with an average bet size of £20 per line. Then after the third spin you won a substantial win and reduced your average bet size to £5 per line.

As you can read in our terms and conditions, you are not allowed to reduce your average bet size equal to 75% or more during a bonus qualification after a substantial win.Therefore this is a clear case of breach of terms and conditions even though you may personally not agree with the particular term, you have though accepted these terms when you had registered on our site. Moreover, your Original deposit amount was returned to your account.

If you have any further complaints, we recommend you to do a PAB.

Best Regards,
Lucas

You guys are as vague as it gets and opportunist as others say. How do you define a substantial win? Your terms seem to be similar to a rogue casino who confiscated winnings because the players changed slots after a win. Come on, its normal to reduce the size of the bet after a win say that is equivalent to 500x your bet as people adhere to the saying 'lightning never strikes twice. You need a mathematician to figure out a reduction of 75% of the previous average bet size. Needless to say, I wouldnt recommend anyone to come near your casino.
 
I dont think you can call a casino rouge because of its bonus terms. The word rouge is used too much on this forum. The casino has said it point of view and recommended the player to do a PAB if he feels they have done anything wrong.

If a casino gives you free money to play with, it is their right to tell you exactly what you can do with the money. If you don't like it, why the hell do you take the bonus, play without instead. Player is playing on a credit, then they need to accept the terms regardless of what they are. Saying that a casino "trap" players is childish, if you dont understand a term when you sign a contract, wouldnt you ask what it mean?

This casino seem to have very clear terms.

First of all, its optional to play with bonus.
"At Videoslots.com it is optional to activate a bonus. You either use a bonus code when you deposit, or go to My bonuses to activate."

Second of all, they already state that you can do multiple bets during one spin
"Your bonus will be automatically inactivated if you make a single or multiple bets over €100".

Thrid of all, they clearly write what bonus abuse is.
"(ii) placing large bets which result in a substantial gain followed by a drop in bet size equal to or more than seventy five percent of the previous average bet size until the bonus release requirements have been met;"
A win of 17000 is a substantial gain in my world. However the casino could point out what the minimum size should be to make the term clearer. However in this case I think its clear enough.

And I read the post regarding the warning of this casino, and the warning was max bet €10 and max 10% of your bonus. Which casino doesnt have this rule today? How can this be called rouge?

I wish the OP good luck with the PAB as it is a lot of money, but in my POV the casino is correct in this case.
 
The casino's stance appears very unfair. Bet size and line bet to me are two different things.

Where contract terms are vague the "Contra proferentem" rule will normally apply.
 

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