Kiss Casino

Dirk Diggler · Jul 12, 2004

Hi,

As the title says Kiss are trying to steal $2,250 off me. How the story goes is that Kiss sent me an email on June 9th. I redeemed the coupon FB683 and deposited $1,100 and received a $275 bonus.

I wagered over 13x deposit and bonus as the email says and cashed in, only to have the cashin denied and to be told I had to wager 26x deposit and bonus because I played blackjack. After some arguments about this with them I decided it was best just to do the extra wagering (even though there was no mention of it in the email) and got my balance upto $4,250 (playing around $100 per hand at blackjack).

At this point I withdrew $2,500 via Neteller (max withdrawal) leaving $1,750 in my account. Anyway after about a month of not receiving my money I emailed them to find out why. They initially ignored me only to eventually reply saying that the max cashout was $2,000 so it had been denied (this in itself amazed me considering the software allowed a $2,500 withdrawal), and to log back in to my account and re-request the withdrawal.

To my amazement I logged in to my account to find only $2,000 in there ($2,250 short), and instantly emailed them. They replied saying that under the terms and conditions of the promotion I am only entitled to withdraw $2,000. :eek:

Clearly this is not in the terms and conditions that they emailed me (see below), and I have never seen this posted on their website prior to them sending me a link when informing me about it.

25% Match Bonus
Coupon code FB683
Deposit $75 or more
Redeem 25% up to $275
Wager 13x deposit and bonus

Terms and Conditions: *Bonuses cannot be used on Pontoon, Baccarat, Craps, Multi-Player Poker, Bingo and Roulette until bonus requirements are met. Coupon CT4PX requires wagers of 12x deposit and bonus on Slots and Keno to cash out. Coupon FB683 requires wagers of 13x deposit and bonus to cash out. Promotions expire June 16th, 2004 at 11:59:59PM EST.

In my opinion these have obviously decided to make up some bullshit rule about a max $2,000 cashout specifically to try and rob any big stake gamblers they can that take up a bonus - and even if it was on their site previously (which I very much doubt) it clearly wasn't on the email that they sent me with the offer, so how can they claim that I should be held to it?

I'd advise anyone to keep well clear of these scum bags - I'm complaining where I can and aren't going to let it lie. They're head office is in the UK (as am I) so i'll be reporting them to any UK marketing authorities that I can as well (anyone happen to know of any?).

P.S I know these are related to Giant Vegas and I've partially mentioned this on their thread below, but I think it's best I started a new thread so people don't miss that they're related like I did.

celmoso · Jul 16, 2004

$2,500 here

Same issue here except I only deposited $200 and am waiting for $2,500 via neteller since the 12th. They always are nice via phone, but no one emails me back like they keep promising. I was originally promised the 15th, but it's now the 16th... I filled out the "montana" form hoping I can get some help.

Black21Jack · Jul 16, 2004

I can Guarantee that if you deposited your $1100 and brought that up to $4250 you would have all your winnings and deposit in your bank right now. When will people learn? I played there and won $4700 on a $1000 deposit with no bonus claimed and guess what? no problems at all. Was the measley $275 that you most lilkely cant withdraw anyways really worth all this headache?

Dirk Diggler · Jul 17, 2004

I very much doubt that - these must obviously be having cash flow problem's at the very least with the length of time taken to process virtually everyone's withdrawal.

Anyway I think your missing the point - why should a casino give a player an offer and then renegade on paying the winnings? If I'd lost then I'm sure they wouldn't say, oh well we weren't going to pay you if you'd won so here's your deposit back would they?

If you (or anyone else) choose to play at this casino or it's sister after all the reports then I for one am extremely dissapointed - all your doing is helping to keep open rogue casino's. And what happens if you get real lucky one day and maybe hit a couple of RF's at video poker or a big jackpot on the slots? Would you then trust them to pay you?

We should all stick together and vow never to play at any casino's where there are clear problem's - this is the only way these continual rip off's from various casino's will ever end.

Why not just play at the reputable RTG's if you're not playing with bonuses? i.e. Phoenician, Nostalgia etc. You know for a fact that these are going to pay you no matter how much you win (and in double quick time) - so why keep open these rogue casino's?

Black21Jack · Jul 17, 2004

Dirk Diggler said:
I very much doubt that - these must obviously be having cash flow problem's at the very least with the length of time taken to process virtually everyone's withdrawal.

Anyway I think your missing the point - why should a casino give a player an offer and then renegade on paying the winnings? If I'd lost then I'm sure they wouldn't say, oh well we weren't going to pay you if you'd won so here's your deposit back would they?

If you (or anyone else) choose to play at this casino or it's sister after all the reports then I for one am extremely dissapointed - all your doing is helping to keep open rogue casino's. And what happens if you get real lucky one day and maybe hit a couple of RF's at video poker or a big jackpot on the slots? Would you then trust them to pay you?

We should all stick together and vow never to play at any casino's where there are clear problem's - this is the only way these continual rip off's from various casino's will ever end.

Why not just play at the reputable RTG's if you're not playing with bonuses? i.e. Phoenician, Nostalgia etc. You know for a fact that these are going to pay you no matter how much you win (and in double quick time) - so why keep open these rogue casino's?

I totally agree with you on your point of us players sticking together. I was just posting my opinion on bonuses and in no way stepping up for Kiss Casino. My experience with them was from before I knew there was problems. I will not play with them again and if you read any of my other posts from this forum I do support fellow players and openly boycott any casinos that rip off and screw players around, as well as contact the casinos and request closure of my accounts. I do only play in the reputable RTG's like Phoenician and Nostalgia. The fact still remains that they will pay you if you don't claim a bonus. Bonuses are trouble. It makes no sense that you would be disappointed in me or any other player depositing at Kiss when you did the same thing. You should have done your research and did a search for bad experiences before putting your money in, and especially claiming a bonus since all the bad reports are from people who claime bonuses. In fact, I could not find one post that involved a cashout problem with only a straight deposit and no bonus claim. Before I put money in any casino I search Google and I post a question here on the track record of the casino and if anyone has been screwed by them. I did the same for Kiss before I deposited, did a search and found nothing bad.

celmoso · Jul 17, 2004

Lesson learned

I deposited at Kiss taking the bonus because I got spoiled from the online poker rooms. Everyone I pplayed at gave me no troubles with bonus' or withdrawals. So I assumed when I saw a few ads for Kiss, that they were ok too. Now I know casinos can't all be treated the same....

celmoso · Jul 20, 2004

An update on Kiss....
Got email response after reasoning withe them via email, and they now say they're having some bank wire problems, and to expect my withdrawal in the beginning of this week. I'll let you know....

Dirk Diggler · Jul 20, 2004

They haven't even responded to my last three emails

jetset · Jul 20, 2004

What these casinos don't seem to appreciate is that slowpay with suspicious excuses and ignored emails has been used over and over and over again by casinos that subsequently bugged out leaving players holding the baby.

I would definitely exercise great caution around Kiss and Giant Vegas until there are positive indications that they are capable of paying all owed players promptly and efficiently.

rayharold · Jul 20, 2004

Kiss and Giant Vegas Casinos

I had trouble with SLOW pay from these casinos in the spring. It took almost a month to receive my winnings. I have avoided them since and would recommend playing somewhere else!

Dirk Diggler · Jul 21, 2004

Finally got a reply from Kiss today - they once again said max cashout for 100% offers is $2,000 (it wasn't even a 100% offer I did).

I forwarded the original email offer on to them again saying no such term existed in it and asking how they can expect me to be held to a term that wasn't in the offer they sent me.

I'll update if they ever reply.

celmoso · Jul 22, 2004

Update

My situation takes a new twist...
Called them late on Tuesday and demanded a supervisor or manager. I ended up with a Diana who offered to try and rectify this for me. She called directly to Player Security (which all other phone support reps said was impossible) and spoke with the head of that department, Arnold. He advised her it will take a while to process a $2500 withdrawal, so if I reversed it and switched to 2 $1250 withdrawals, they can do one this Thursday (today) and the other next Thursday. So, I will update later tonight to let you know if they're just feeding me more lies or not.

Dirk Diggler · Jul 22, 2004

Well this is the answer kiss sent me:

I will quote one of the paragraphs I sent you on my previous email:

The reason why you can't find this information on the mailer you received, is because we have realized that most of our active players usually read our website or contact us via email, phone or chat with all their questions regarding our promotions and all the rest of our services.

That is the answer Steve.
Be happy that you won the max $2000. It doesn't happen that often.

Sincerely,

Travis Kaine
Your Kiss Casino Host
E-mail: [email protected]
Telephone: 1-800-761-1302

So seen as I aren't 'most' of their players and I didn't read their website then I should be held to some term and condition sent to me in a link a month after I cashed out? (that could have been placed there at anytime)

I would appreciate comments on this - does anyone think that you should be expected to check a casino's website for some obscure term when they supply terms and conditions in an email to you with the offer?

If anyone's interested then here's the link they provided
Outdated URL (Invalid) - well done if you'd have spotted that the term was even applicable to the email offer (it's as clear as day isn't it? :what:

)

caruso · Jul 22, 2004

Obvious bull. 90% of players do no research at all, don't read the boards, just download and play. To suggest that that 90% actually goes through the site with a fine tooth comb to find any possible get-out clauses such as the get-out clause listed RIGHT at the bottom of that T & C page is obviously idiotic.

One thing I did recently was to take dated screenshots of the ENTIRE website of an RTG I played - I figured it was a hassle that would pay off big time in the event they tried this standard RTG sleight of hand. They didn't, but I'd have been ready for them if they had. It's a practice I recommend.

jetset · Jul 22, 2004

celmoso said:
My situation takes a new twist...
Called them late on Tuesday and demanded a supervisor or manager. I ended up with a Diana who offered to try and rectify this for me. She called directly to Player Security (which all other phone support reps said was impossible) and spoke with the head of that department, Arnold. He advised her it will take a while to process a $2500 withdrawal, so if I reversed it and switched to 2 $1250 withdrawals, they can do one this Thursday (today) and the other next Thursday. So, I will update later tonight to let you know if they're just feeding me more lies or not.

I hope you get paid...even in two instalments over a week like this (it's sounding increasingly like CtoC's instalment plans!) To me it looks a bit like that thing called C.A.S.H.F.L.O.W. hassles.

Please keep the thread updated on this.

jpm · Jul 22, 2004

I like this part of their reply best "Be happy that you won the max $2000. It doesn't happen that often."

More and more casinos are making a part of the T&C that you must come back regularly to check for changes to the T&C. That way they can always put the blame on you for not doing so.

Dirk Diggler · Jul 22, 2004

jpm said:
I like this part of their reply best "Be happy that you won the max $2000. It doesn't happen that often."

I now what you mean - even more amusing is the fact it's been well over a month since I requested this $2,000 I should be greatfull for - and I haven't even received it :rolleyes:

I replied to there last email with this:

Travis,

'we have realized that most of our active players usually read our website or contact us via email'

Well as it turns out I'm one of the one's that didn't read your website or contact you via e-mail (if this term even existed when I deposited), so why should I be held to terms that you only expect 'most' players to read?

When I am sent an email that includes terms and conditions why on earth would I think I needed to search through your website to find other terms and conditions? (that are blatently hidden away anyway with none of the terms actually mentioning specifically the coupon I redeemed).

I have discussed this on many online forums (including Casinomeister and Winners Online) and I am yet to find a person who thinks that you are right. If you send terms and conditions in an email then this is the terms and conditions of the offer - not some terms that you later send on a link that could have been changed at anytime.

I must admit I find your statement "Be happy that you won the max $2000. It doesn't happen that often" rather amusing - I take it this takes into account all the players that you and your sister casino Giant Vegas just don't pay winnings to when they've made this amount?

Even more amusing is that you haven't even paid me the $2,000 ($1,100 of which I deposited) that you say I should be 'happy' for receiving, even though it's been well over a month since I made my initial withdrawal.

When do you suspect you'll pay me this out?

I remember when you used Boss Media software and used Weddollar as your cashiers - oh for those days when players weren't ripped off.

To which they replied with this:

Sure Steve, you are right about the delay paying you the money.
I wish I could be more involve when it comes down to the Casino funds but truth us I am not one of the owners.

Nonetheless, let me check on that and I will get back to you as soon as I have some relevant information.
And yes, truth is that many players aren't experts playing Black Jack in such way that they are able to make such good profits when playing their deposits and bonuses.
Or did you think we thought it was only your luck?

I will be getting back to you later on today.

Best regards,

Travis Kaine

Notice the part I've highlighted in bold - so because I know how to play Blackjack OK, they're right to steal money off me? I played blackjack at $100 a hand plus, so it's not like I didn't give them every chance to win the money off me.

Statements like this make it obvious to me that they're trying to rip me off.

jpm · Jul 23, 2004

The attitude of these places is just mind boggling lately! Intimating that somehow because you know how to play blackjack properly, you are ripping them off or something. What a bunch of scumbags in this group!

I had missed that VERY important part about the T&C actually being included in the email, but not completely included. That makes a huge difference! That is just fraudulent behavior in my opinion. Premeditated deception, pure & simple.

If this place isn't in the rogue section already, they certainly should be now Bryan!

bewitch · Jul 23, 2004

The more I read, the less I want to play... Sad~ When will the casino realize it's very stupid to do things like this???? I started to feel there are fewer and fewer reputable casino exist day by day now.

sw2003 · Jul 23, 2004

It is laughable that they said the player should be grateful for their win even though the casino is still holding and has subtracted some of the winnings.
Is this some form of a lucky tax that the player should pay when they got lucky and won?

Dirk Diggler · Aug 4, 2004

Just a bump to let people know I still haven't received a penny from these (initial withdrawal was the middle of June) or heard anything from the Montana commision apart from the initial email receipt.

An affiliate is looking into it for me as well but they were initially been ignored.

AVOID AVOID AVOID

jetset · Aug 4, 2004

This is ridiculous, and I've drawn the attention of RTG senior management to it. Please keep us posted here, Dirk.

kavaman · Aug 4, 2004

This is a bit off topic , but here goes

Are the only playersecurity casinos that are connected together Kiss Casino, And Giant Vegas casino.
Because i got an email from allmost all of the casinos about a existing player 200% match, deposit 250 get 500$ free.
Im starting to think, if and when, people are having problems with kiss and giant vegas, does the problem affect all other casinos under playersecurity (palace of chance, blast 21 and so son)...

-kavaman

m249a · Aug 4, 2004

Player deposits $1,100 UDS. Win's a grand total of $1150USD. Smart blackjack player tax 30%, luck tax of 30%, fee's for taking the time to respond to your email's 5%, phone fee's for talking to you directly35%, finding out you are smart enough to post on a forum, and having a meeting to discuss a plan of response to your negative feelings toward them, (includes a light lunch for the board members and support staff) $850.00. Having to yet again change their T&C's to justify scumbag tatics, $250.00.

It would seem YOU owe them $1,100........Would you prefer they charge your netteller account, or would you like to make a direct payment? No they will not accept a split or partial payment either! :thumbsup:

Dirk Diggler · Aug 4, 2004

m249a said:
Player deposits $1,100 UDS. Win's a grand total of $1150USD. Smart blackjack player tax 30%, luck tax of 30%, fee's for taking the time to respond to your email's 5%, phone fee's for talking to you directly35%, finding out you are smart enough to post on a forum, and having a meeting to discuss a plan of response to your negative feelings toward them, (includes a light lunch for the board members and support staff) $850.00. Having to yet again change their T&C's to justify scumbag tatics, $250.00.

It would seem YOU owe them $1,100........Would you prefer they charge your netteller account, or would you like to make a direct payment? No they will not accept a split or partial payment either!

Not quite - it's a total of $4,250 they owe me and I haven't spoken to them on the phone. So that's only what, maybe $500 I owe them then?

They claim they are going to pay me $2,000 - I wonder how long that's going to take, if at all.

m249a · Aug 4, 2004

Sorry, I was still on my first cup of coffee, I didn't check my math.

jetset · Aug 5, 2004

Dirk - have I got this right? They have taken the lion's share of the $4250 they owe you because their T&Cs say that the maximum payout is only $2 000, and they can't even get their act together to promptly pay you that much?

BTW RTG told me yesterday that they will get in contact with Montana to find out what's happening here.

Dirk Diggler · Aug 5, 2004

Jetset - yes that's virtually right, except for the term about the max $2,000 cashout

They sent me an email offering a bonus with the Terms & Conditions in and didn't include the term of a max cashout of $2,000 (if it existed then).

A month later they sent me a link to their T&C's after removing $2,250 from my account with this vague term in that wasn't even obviously relating to the bonus I did.

P.S Cheers for your help - it's much appreciated.

jetset · Aug 5, 2004

Understood - thanks for clarifying that for me.

doobers · Aug 8, 2004

wow digler this is a bunch of BS ..

i hope it works out for you .. im definitely never going near that casino again .. are there really any reputable online casinos out there anymore? golden palace?!

Dirk Diggler · Aug 15, 2004

Well still not received a dollar from these - t's now been about two months since I first requested a withdrawal.

I've not heard a thing out of the Montana commision either - this is apart from a confirmation email from them that they'd received it a month ago. I have now chased them up twice without hearing a thing.

I see that these and Giant Vegas are still not even on the Rogue list - what exactly does it take to get on there? Surely stealing $2,250 of a players money and then not paying the $2,000 they claim they aren't stealing should do the trick? (this is as well as them taking months to pay other players, if at all)

cj. · Aug 16, 2004

Dirk, this matter has been referred to Montana for mediation - unfortunately we have not been able to mutually come to a solution that was acceptable to you, therefore we have requested the assistance of a 3rd party.

I have recently joined the team as the affiliate manager for Giant Revenue, the affiliate program for both Kiss Casino and Giant Vegas. I saw this thread last week when I registered here, and have endeavored to find all information relating to this matter.

I have read through all correspondence, and while it seems there was a disagreement relating to the terms of wagering the bonus, the biggest issues seem to have arisen from the way this situation is being handled.

Statements like this:

"Be happy that you won the max $2000. It doesn't happen that often."

are not only embarassing and unprofessional for us, they go against every bit of marketing we have done to bring you in as a player. Keeping this in mind, why would anyone who is a Kiss Casino employee make statements like this to players?! That person wouldn't have their job for very long ...

For me, this opens poses the question why have ANY players (it seems 2 cases are noted in this thread) been given terrible customer support by our representatives and how do we fix it? Rest assured this is my first priority & I will be doing all I can.

Kiss Casino has been online since 1998 with thousands of satisfied players in that time ... this thread is the only problem I have been able to find - a blemish on our near perfect record. It only takes 1 negative issue to undo years of hard work and satisfied customers, but I hope we can rectify this situation for you Dirk ... and while I'm sure you will never play in our casino again, we will continue to work hard to improve the experience of our players at both Kiss Casino and Giant Vegas.

May I ask, who are you emailing multiple times with 'no response', as stated in your posts?

Dirk Diggler · Aug 16, 2004

Hi CJ,

In reply, I'd just been mailing the standard support address ([email protected]), they initially ignored me before 'Travis' replied to my third or fourth email.

To be honest I see the following as being the main problems with my case:

1) Kiss send me an offer via email with the terms and conditions included, then proceed to steal $2,250 from my account claiming a maximum cashout of $2,000 - which wasn't included in the terms and conditions included in the email. You then proceed to blank all my questions asking to why I should be held to terms not included in the original offer - do you have an answer to this?

2) Over two months since my original cashout and Kiss haven't paid me a single $. It seems to be the case for almost everyone who plays at either Kiss or Giant Vegas and wins - why is this exactly?

I see you state that Kiss has been 'online since 1998 with thousands of satisfied customers'. Seeing as you've just recently joined Kiss how exactly would you know how many satisfied customers they have? I'd be surprised if you had many at all considering you take months to payout any decent sized wins (lots of reports of this).

I see you've taken over as the affiliate manager, well you're certainly going to have your work cut out. I know The Blue Lizard Lounge for one (full praise to them) have pulled your casino's from their website due to my case and similar one's, and I'm sure others will have done the same

If you start paying players, and stop stealing money from their accounts then that maybe a start - until then I'm sure everyone who reads the message boards will stay well clear of your rogue outfit.

swampwitch · Aug 16, 2004

Unfortunately, our "guy" at Kiss/Giant Vegas wasn't able....or willing...to give us a good enough explanation for not paying monies that didn't seem to have anything to do with the bonus/wagering requirements. When Sorrelltop pressed him for an explanation, she received no further reply.
Pulling the banners was easy....We're just sorry we weren't able to help more.
Good luck Dirk...we're pulling for you!

sw2003 · Aug 16, 2004

cj. said:
I have recently joined the team as the affiliate manager for Giant Revenue, the affiliate program for both Kiss Casino and Giant Vegas. I saw this thread last week when I registered here, and have endeavored to find all information relating to this matter.

I have read through all correspondence, and while it seems there was a disagreement relating to the terms of wagering the bonus, the biggest issues seem to have arisen from the way this situation is being handled.

Statements like this:

"Be happy that you won the max $2000. It doesn't happen that often."

are not only embarassing and unprofessional for us, they go against every bit of marketing we have done to bring you in as a player. Keeping this in mind, why would anyone who is a Kiss Casino employee make statements like this to players?! That person wouldn't have their job for very long ...

For me, this opens poses the question why have ANY players (it seems 2 cases are noted in this thread) been given terrible customer support by our representatives and how do we fix it? Rest assured this is my first priority & I will be doing all I can.

Kiss Casino has been online since 1998 with thousands of satisfied players in that time ... this thread is the only problem I have been able to find - a blemish on our near perfect record. It only takes 1 negative issue to undo years of hard work and satisfied customers, but I hope we can rectify this situation for you Dirk ... and while I'm sure you will never play in our casino again, we will continue to work hard to improve the experience of our players at both Kiss Casino and Giant Vegas.

May I ask, who are you emailing multiple times with 'no response', as stated in your posts?

No offense but jeez this guy is full of big words! Let see if there is any substance behind them. This is the only problem/blemish on your near perfect record that you could find? Modest aren't we? Blah blah it will undo years of hard work, .... more blah blah. You must have not been trying very hard. I seem to recall complaints about you guys on more than one site by different people. I am really sorry and I am not trying to nitpick here but your big words sounded so empty and gave me the impression that they were said more for show than anything else. Your words don't seem to have one ounce of sincere bone behind them. Once again, take no offense!

cj. · Aug 17, 2004

Hi Dirk,

Dirk Diggler said:
1) Kiss send me an offer via email with the terms and conditions included, then proceed to steal $2,250 from my account claiming a maximum cashout of $2,000 - which wasn't included in the terms and conditions included in the email. You then proceed to blank all my questions asking to why I should be held to terms not included in the original offer - do you have an answer to this?

From what I understand, the only terms included in the mailer you received were terms that were specific to that offer - all general terms and conditions are housed at the website. As this offer was sent to VIP's (you have successfully played and received winnings on previous occasions in our casino) it is assumed that the standard terms and conditions are understood and accepted - but as this situation has shown us, if this isn't clear to the player at the time of depositing, we are going to continue to have similar issues in the future. The email should contain either a ) no terms but a link to the website terms page or b ) all terms, general casino and promo specific should be included with the email.

Dirk Diggler said:
2) Over two months since my original cashout and Kiss haven't paid me a single $. It seems to be the case for almost everyone who plays at either Kiss or Giant Vegas and wins - why is this exactly?

Dirk, I understand you are beyond annoyed and your goal is to damage our reputation beyond repair, but when did you speak to every kiss casino winner?! There are 2 cases in this thread ... we have had more than 2 winners in our casino. You have a geniune case with a legitimate problem, no need to make things up.

Dirk Diggler said:
I see you state that Kiss has been 'online since 1998 with thousands of satisfied customers'. Seeing as you've just recently joined Kiss how exactly would you know how many satisfied customers they have? I'd be surprised if you had many at all considering you take months to payout any decent sized wins (lots of reports of this).

I have been working with the Kiss team for about a year, consulting on affiliate development and helping with some design. In that time I've done a lot of research, read a lot of past correspondence and surfed the net for all references of our casino's. In all my research, 'lots of reports of this' seems to be just this thread.

Dirk Diggler said:
I see you've taken over as the affiliate manager, well you're certainly going to have your work cut out. I know The Blue Lizard Lounge for one (full praise to them) have pulled your casino's from their website due to my case and similar one's, and I'm sure others will have done the same

It is unfortunate when a 3rd party becomes involved in situations like this, decides who is right based on 1 side of the story, makes demands via email for answers to a situation that they are not involved in, then decides we deserve to be blacklisted because we didn't provide them with information. Should we openly discuss your personal details and this situation with anyone who feels the need to know?! Of course not.

Dirk Diggler said:
If you start paying players, and stop stealing money from their accounts then that maybe a start - until then I'm sure everyone who reads the message boards will stay well clear of your rogue outfit.

Again, exaggerating and making up stories might impress the spectators, but it makes me think you are not being truthful in the actual issue ... Based on your extremely 'good' blackjack playing, exceptional manipulation of bonuses and winning almost every time you deposited money, I could easily draw the conclusion you were trying to rip us off or that you have some secret technique ... therefore, you must be a rogue player?

You can't say we steal money from players accounts, which I know is a rediculous accusation, then expect me to believe that you 'didn't know there were other terms' - especially after playing, winning, and receiving funds on a previous occasion. As I said, you have a genuine case with making things up.

cj. · Aug 17, 2004

sw2003 said:
No offense but jeez this guy is full of big words! Let see if there is any substance behind them. This is the only problem/blemish on your near perfect record that you could find? Modest aren't we? Blah blah it will undo years of hard work, .... more blah blah. You must have not been trying very hard. I seem to recall complaints about you guys on more than one site by different people. I am really sorry and I am not trying to nitpick here but your big words sounded so empty and gave me the impression that they were said more for show than anything else. Your words don't seem to have one ounce of sincere bone behind them. Once again, take no offense!

Hi sw2003 - you are full of shit, but no offense??!! LOL Offense taken, because lets be honest - you don't make posts like this if you aren't trying to be offensive. I understand, as long as your friends are impressed :thumbsup:

This 'girl' would love to know where you have seen the complaints you 'seem to recall', which are 'on more than one site by different people'. Jumping on a bandwagon with vague accusations is not only offensive, its slanderous.

Rest assured, my 'sincere bone' is fairly reliable - but you can judge that for yourself over time.

largeeyes · Aug 17, 2004

cj,

I have ZERO vested interest in this whole situation, but after seeing how you have treated people and dealt with this in a most unprofessional manner, I will be sure never to take my business to Kiss or Giant Vegas.

bagofmaggots · Aug 17, 2004

Rouge Player

So.....Kiss feels that winners are "rouge" players............Interesting!
I guess that means that players that lose must be "suckers"...........

sw2003 · Aug 17, 2004

cj. said:
This 'girl' would love to know where you have seen the complaints you 'seem to recall', which are 'on more than one site by different people'. Jumping on a bandwagon with vague accusations is not only offensive, its slanderous.

The sites are all public. If you can't find them, you haven't been trying hard enough. I have to say that I am so far unimpressed by all your big but empty words. :cool:

bethug · Aug 17, 2004

this guy got to be fake, please tell me his fake.

sw2003 · Aug 17, 2004

He is either a fake or being sarcastic or both! Everything he says could be in jest.

bagofmaggots · Aug 17, 2004

Fake?

I doubt that C.J. is a fake. Just another example of an arrogant casino operator. Well C.J. you can back up your big words by paying Dirk his winnings and prove your doubters all wrong!

sorrelltop · Aug 17, 2004

It is unfortunate when a 3rd party becomes involved in situations like this, decides who is right based on 1 side of the story, makes demands via email for answers to a situation that they are not involved in, then decides we deserve to be blacklisted because we didn't provide them with information. Should we openly discuss your personal details and this situation with anyone who feels the need to know?! Of course not.

This is the email that was sent to the manager. We were not asking for personal details, just answers.
------------------------------------------------
Hello xxxx,

Maybe you can help me out here. I am trying to listen to both sides of this issue.

It does appear that xxxx has cashed out and was paid promptly in the past. However, why would it take a month for a email reply regarding his last cashout request? Why was the remainder of his funds removed from his account? Why is it taking so long for his cashout of $2000? He has already provided the fax back, correct?

I've read the T&C at the site and I am a little confused.

Weekly coupons offering Instant Cash with No Deposit Required have a maximum cash-out of the Face Value of the Coupon i.e. A $10 Instant Cash Coupon has a maximum cash-out of only $10 and is available to First Time Players Only
Weekly Coupons Offering Match Bonuses have a maximum cash-out of $2,000 and have the following games excluded: Pontoon, Baccarat, Craps, Bingo, Poker and Roulette until such time as the wagering requirements have been met.
All Weekly coupons have wagering requirements of 20 times the deposit and bonus with double the wagering requirements on Blackjack, Multi Hand and Single Hand Video Poker.
In addition to the weekly terms above Kiss5 has a maximum cashout of $500

Did the T&C change recently? This says playthrough of 20x? Also, how can the max cashout be $2,000 AND $500? This is very confusing.

Also, xxxx said he contacted the arbitrary group and has not received a reply from them either.

The other player, xxxx, who was concerned about his cashout has been waiting 11 days now. Why is it taking so long?

I don't mean to put you on the spot xxxx, but if The Blue Lizard Lounge is going to stand behind you, we need answers.

Thank you so much for providing the answers as soon as possible.

Talk to you soon.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Also, because of our past relationship with Kiss/Giant Vegas we had sent the links to negative threads on the boards to them in the hope that they would answer them and put players minds at ease.

The Dude · Aug 17, 2004

Hi cj,

And welcome to the forum. Sometimes I'm in and out the studio rather frequently, and sometimes I am unable to follow the threads in the forum too carefully - I have to speed read through them sometimes.

I was hoping that in this thread, which unfortunately has not had my full attention, the situation between Kiss Casino and its players could have been ironed out sans emotional responses from the casino management:

Hi sw2003 - you are full of shit, but no offense??!! LOL Offense taken, because lets be honest - you don't make posts like this if you aren't trying to be offensive. I understand, as long as your friends are impressed

As the forum rules indicate "Please refrain from potty mouth language" - now I'm not trying to rag on you - but you are representing your company at the moment, and small lapses in judgement may have whatever repercussions they may have. I hope you thought this out when you posted the above comment.

Kiss complaints: Admittingly so, there are a few Kiss casino complaints in my in-box that I will prioritize today. One has already been handled by the Montana group - I'll check on the others.

As far as the comments to Sorrelltop, you mentioned she was not involved with the player issue. I will have to disagree with this because if she was promoting your casino - she was involved. She endorsed your operation by promotion thus she is a party in the matter. Looks like you lost yourself an affiliate by not reponding to her concern.

To everyone else. Please keep this thread mellow. Thanks!

sandmanfromlv · Aug 17, 2004

I am currently owed $2500 by Kiss which has been pending now for over 2 weeks. While they respond to emails, I have been receiving the standard RTG banking untruths, such as the old Costa Rican banking holiday stall, we're waiting on some banking issues to clear up in a couple of days, and finally, the one that should get both myself and others worried....

"Unfortunately we do not have a date as to when your withdrawal will be payed yet. I will contact you as soon as we do. We are waiting for a wire transfer and all I can assure you is that we are doing everything in our power to have your money for you as soon as possible"

RTG needs to step up and do the right thing here...!

swampwitch · Aug 17, 2004

It is unfortunate when a 3rd party becomes involved in situations like this, decides who is right based on 1 side of the story, makes demands via email for answers to a situation that they are not involved in, then decides we deserve to be blacklisted because we didn't provide them with information. Should we openly discuss your personal details and this situation with anyone who feels the need to know?! Of course not.

Along with what Sorrell answered, just let me add....We did not decide you deserved to be "blacklisted". That's not our job. Our portal and board had an affiliation with Giant Vegas/Kiss. We promoted you with the assumption that we were representing a fair and honest operation. When we began to hear the horror stories, we at first thought we were dealing with simple player/management misunderstandings. Happens all the time...a perfectly good casino is prematurely marked "rogue" before small problems are resolved.

Because we had had such good rapport with our "guy" from Giant Vegas, we were sure we could get this straightened out. Not just for Dirk, but for a casino we were representing in good faith. The way these problems have been handled thus far shows bad faith, and we won't be a party to it. Pulling banners and ending affiliations by one small portal and forum does not a blacklist make.

However, your snotty attitude and general quasi-superiority won't help keep you off someone else's blacklist. Good luck with that approach.

caruso · Aug 17, 2004

I was slow-paid for a grand total of $1,400 by Giant Vegas. Affiliate intervention got me paid after several weeks of no response from the casino, but that was a few months ago and for a lesser amount. I knew of another player with a larger cashin who received the same treatment - no pay, no response. paid eventually, though.

If players would just LISTEN TO THE WARNINGS none of this would happen - but they don't: they go on playing, then get screwed and say "don't play here". LOL, how ironic is this? They don't listen to the self-same advice when it comes from others, so why do they expect others to harken to them?

If you don't want at best a headache and at worst a no-pay, DON'T play at this clip-joint. If you DO play, don't bleat about getting screwed - the warnings were there. Just file the inevitable complaint, wait and pray.

CJ, you need to work a bit on your PR skills. Callings players rogues for "manipulating" the game-play doesn't wash with too many people, and alienates most.

The Dude · Aug 17, 2004

caruso said:
I was slow-paid for a grand total of $1,400 by Giant Vegas. Affiliate intervention got me paid after several weeks of no response from the casino, but that was a few months ago and for a lesser amount. I knew of another player with a larger cashin who received the same treatment - no pay, no response. paid eventually, though.

If players would just LISTEN TO THE WARNINGS none of this would happen - but they don't: they go on playing, then get screwed and say "don't play here". LOL, how ironic is this? They don't listen to the self-same advice when it comes from others, so why do they expect others to harken to them?

If you don't want at best a headache and at worst a no-pay, DON'T play at this clip-joint. If you DO play, don't bleat about getting screwed - the warnings were there. Just file the inevitable complaint, wait and pray.

CJ, you need to work a bit on your PR skills. Callings players rogues for "manipulating" the game-play doesn't wash with too many people, and alienates most.

I think CJ was trying to be funny and the comment wasn't made to be taken seriously. Looks like this attempt at comedy backfired on her.

But before we begin to sermonize on players who don't listen - what are they supposed to listen to? When players have grievances - they need to do something constructive about it - not simply post on message boards. That don't cut it. If I decide to pursue any of these issues - I need players to contact me directly so that I have all of the information to take care of these problems.

I have just searched my complaint folders, and I have three complaints on Kiss casino since July 15th - not an alarming figure. One was submitted today, one was resolved by the Montana group, one is pending. I understand that many players go to affiliates of these casinos - that's good - that's what they should be doing - put these affiliates to task on the responsibility of promoting online casinos. But message board grumbling doesn't do much of anything but release tension.

Someday you ought to post somewhere the name of every casino you have played at and see how many "clip joints" are included. I believe that players who are selective with whom they do business with don't have the problems that you may have had presently or in the past. How many times have you gone to Carley or to me, or to whomever for assistance? This is something that should never be. And it seems your name somehow pops up in nearly every thread that deals with a problematic casino - not as an observer but as a player.

My main issue here is that you - Caruso - should be much more selective with whom you are dealing with "casinowise". You would be leading by example for players at large.

bethug · Aug 17, 2004

why should any one play there, inetbetcasino, phonenician casino, bodog and a few others are ten time better

Kiss Casino

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

RIP Brian

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

RIP Brian

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)

Dormant account

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

RIP Brian

Senior Member

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

RIP Brian

Dormant account

RIP Brian

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

ProfessionalUnderachiever

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

Senior Member

Dormant account

Dormant account

Dormant account

The artist formally known as Casinomeister

Dormant account

ProfessionalUnderachiever

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

The artist formally known as Casinomeister

Senior Member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread

Accredited Casinos