goodbye 32red

[mippsaublue]

Who's getting wound up? I'm just trying to have a civilised discussion... some people get wound up if they win or lose !!

[retlaw]

just closed my 32red account after 5 yrs of regular playing... have been quite happy with playability and occational winning streaks... until about 6 mnths ago something changed, no payouts, little or no play, just take your money and give nothing back.

wheres the fun in being mugged ??!!

have online casinos hit hard times and cannot afford to pay out?

am i the only one on a 6 mnth losing streak? defies all logic and law of averages!

6 month loosing in a row : I do understand your frustration!!!
As most MGS players know,something has changed a couple of years ago.
Pay-outs have become lower,and of course there is no casino rep who will admit this.I also understand it is impossible for them to admit it.

It is not only 32Red where it happened, for me they have always been the best regarding pay-out and there support is excellent and the best one can find.Right now it is the only online casino where I still am playing.

Like you I play at 32Red more than 5 years, almost on a daily basis.
Since the beginning of 2011, my losses are very big and I am not going to wait 6 months(like you) before I will close my account there too.
That will be the end of online gambling for me,and it then will be the best decision I have taken in 5 years.

[chayton]

....and then suddenly you win $30,000 from a $25 deposit...

I hope that happens to me soon!!!!

[Jufo]

Pay-outs have become lower,and of course there is no casino rep who will admit this.I also understand it is impossible for them to admit it.

If the payouts are lower in card games* compared to what they should statistically be then 32Red may be involved in fraud. They are eCogra sealed and eCogra requires the odds of the games to follow exactly the same odds as a physical game with corresponding rules. For example, Classic Blackjack delivers a 99.91% payout rate with basic strategy and this payout rate would have to be reached at 32Red as well, or the games are fraudulent.

Regarding these concerns, I had a PM discussion with Pat Harrison. He only gave me evading answers and refused to provide any audit proof that the games deliver expected return percentages. So much for their complete transparency...

* I am focusing on card games instead of slots as the return percentages and variances are clearly defined in card games, and the differences in observed vs. expected return percentages can be accurately statisically measured using various techniques.

[GrandMaster]

If the payouts are lower in card games* compared to what they should statistically be then 32Red may be involved in fraud. They are eCogra sealed and eCogra requires the odds of the games to follow exactly the same odds as a physical game with corresponding rules. For example, Classic Blackjack delivers a 99.91% payout rate with basic strategy and this payout rate would have to be reached at 32Red as well, or the games are fraudulent.

The 99.91% return assumes that everybody plays with perfect strategy all the time.

[Jufo]

The 99.91% return assumes that everybody plays with perfect strategy all the time.

True, however the average player error rate is measurable as well, and many might be surprised how small the extent of increased house edge due to player errors actually is. A study in Las Vegas B&M casinos showed player errors to increase the HE around 0.8%. Given the easier access to basic strategy tables online as well as correct autoplay strategy implemented within Microgaming software, I would expect the error rate to be even lower than 0.8% at MG casinos. So an audit report showing a 99.0% payout rate might be accetable, but not much lower than that.

[retlaw]

True, however the average player error rate is measurable as well, and many might be surprised how small the extent of increased house edge due to player errors actually is. A study in Las Vegas B&M casinos showed player errors to increase the HE around 0.8%. Given the easier access to basic strategy tables online as well as correct autoplay strategy implemented within Microgaming software, I would expect the error rate to be even lower than 0.8% at MG casinos. So an audit report showing a 99.0% payout rate might be accetable, but not much lower than that.

I play Video Poker most of the time in Expert mode.
In 2006 my RTP was usually around 99%.(on a monthly basis)
Now I have sometimes only 95%.
Normally RTP on Video Poker cannot be changed, unless Video Poker is also a Slot game( like some members say)

[Jufo]

I play Video Poker most of the time in Expert mode.
In 2006 my RTP was usually around 99%.(on a monthly basis)
Now I have sometimes only 95%.
Normally RTP on Video Poker cannot be changed, unless Video Poker is also a Slot game( like some members say)

The problem with video poker is it's high variance, so a 95% return is not a least bit abnormal as the return percentage will shoot up every time you hit a royal. The games where it is the easiest to prove manipulation are the low house edge, low variance games such as blackjack.

[petro]

...Classic Blackjack delivers a 99.91% payout rate with basic strategy...

With basic strategy Microgaming Classic Blackjack has a 99.87% return.
I am sure you mean; with composition dependent strategy.

...this payout rate would have to be reached at 32Red as well...

I have run VP simulations and if you leave the simulator on long enough it always hits the expected return of the game.
You could do this with BJ as well. It would take much less time to see the expected return in BJ compared to VP.

[Jufo]

With basic strategy Microgaming Classic Blackjack has a 99.87% return.
I am sure you mean; with composition dependent strategy.

Sure you nitpicker 99.87% return is completely fine with me as long as it is truly delivered.