Casino Operators Beware: AKA23

[mrracetrack]

This will be my final post on CasinoMeister. Should Bryan ask for comment on issues in the future, I will post an official response/statement but my presence here will be limited to that.

Best Regards,

Josh.
__________________
Joshua Cartu
Casino Director
PrimeCasino.com

I'm surprised you still have a job after some of the things you've posted here... in your short time as a forum member.

You've left a "Big Impression" on myself... and I'm sure quite a few others... about the way Prime Casino is run... and trust me... it wasn't the impression that you would have liked.

[pangloss]

Originally Posted by PrimeCasino

.....I have a great deal of appreciation for the Affiliates that are sending us quality traffic ....

Consulting pangloss' online gaming dictionary I find that "quality traffic" means in casino/affiliate speak:

"......a chump, loser, inveterate gambler, next week's pay cheque, brain dead, low-life, unable to count to 10, to be exploited at all costs, roll out the red carpet, the mortgage/rent payer, pays kid's school fees and puts bread on the table. Yum yum."


Within 12 hours of my public lauding aka23's marvelous web site and contribution to safe online gaming it appears some consider such an affiliate to be the very antichrist of Casinos.

aka promotes hundreds of other casinos and yet not a murmur of complaint from them - just a whine from Prime.


...

[soflat]

Sometimes the best advice is not what you are hoping to hear and it is hard to take. There was some great and honest advice given here from players, affiliates, and even other casino operators.

This is the best forum and you can learn a lot here, but apparently Josh wants a place where people will agree with him. If that is the case, then I think he'll continue to blame others for the casino not reaching its full potential.

[Alexandre]

Originally Posted by PrimeCasino

Lastly, I read some of my posts on the "other" thread and realized that I may have come off a bit snide. I apologize if some of you took me this way but I was dealing with a massive influx of these "players" and so watching advantage players complain about their winnings being withdrawn was not something I was overly sympathetic about. Having said that though, it was wrong to reverse chargeback their Neteller accounts and we will not be doing this again.

Originally Posted by PrimeCasino

I made a mistake in posting aka23's information here and I wholeheartedly apologize for doing that. I'm glad that Bryan picked it up quickly and was able to edit my post. After reading what you've said here, this was definitley the wrong venue for this discussion. Having said that, I have a great deal of appreciation for the Affiliates that are sending us quality traffic and I started this thread out of frustration that aka23 did not take down our links after sending scores of bonus seeker/advantage player traffic. He's by no means legally obligated to do so but I would have expected as much as a professional courtesy.

This will be my final post on CasinoMeister. Should Bryan ask for comment on issues in the future, I will post an official response/statement but my presence here will be limited to that.

Best Regards,

Josh.

Well, it looks like you've made more than one mistake lately.
It's a first step you recognize it and it's even better you apologize for it.
But while Bryan is cleaning the mess behind you on this forum, I'm wondering who is doing this job at Prime Casino ?
As mrracetrack said it before me, I'm impressed by your contribution to this forum.
I wouldn't have you as my pet sitter...the poor animal would be safer alone.
Sometimes I just don't understand all this egaming industry.
Where do they find some of these clowns we are seing regulary coming on this forum with the "casino manager" title ?

[jenn1381]

Running away with your tail between your legs is probably not the answer here... Yes, sometimes people here can be brutal - BUT - they are usually correct and merely trying to get people to see the truth. I for one look am always impressed when casino's have an ongoing relationship with the forums.. Palace Group, for example.. I am sure they've hit some negativity at some point too, but they still post all the time just because... and it is appreciated.

Casino's need to realize that they are in the buisness of gambling. Some people are going to be better at it than others. Some are going to come and lose, some are going to win huge amounts.. and unless they are committing fraud to help them win, casino's need to stuff it, pay them, and move on. If casino's don't want big winners, they are in the wrong buisness. Mathematics prove that it will happen, and the more players you get the more often it will happen. If you expect every single player to have a positive balance with you (deposits equal more than withdrawls) than you're living in a dream world.

Nuff outta me.. moving on.

[BBKPoker]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

What a disappointment not to see our casino listed in the "BEST CASINO SIGN-UP BONUSES" section

That would be because you have miniscule bet-sizes.

[XXLClubCasino]

Originally Posted by BBKPoker

That would be because you have miniscule bet-sizes.

I guess yes, betsize increase with VIP levels. This setup was of course defined to prevent the all-In first bet of bonus lovers

Also minusule is a question of definition in our case almost no players play on the max limit per game i.e 250 per spin or 25 per BJ hands, exept of course the bonus lovers.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

I guess yes, betsize increase with VIP levels. This setup was of course defined to prevent the all-In first bet of bonus lovers

Also minusule is a question of definition in our case almost no players play on the max limit per game i.e 250 per spin or 25 per BJ hands, exept of course the bonus lovers.

You should be glad you are not near the top of the "best bonuses" list. The list is meant for bonuses that can be had by advantage players, and does not represent the true value for a "normal" player who would use lower bets and more hands or spins.
To value a bonus for "recreational" play, one should look at the WR, and see how much bankroll would be lost to the HE of applicable games. If this comes to less than the value of a cashable bonus, then such bonus is vulnerable to the "grinder". The best bonuses would be large enough to extend play, but with WR to ensure a broadly neutral outcome based on the "grinder". This would ensure that only a lucky streak would allow a player to withdraw a profit, and low bet sizes will ensure any advantage player would still need several wins at a game of Blackjack to get enough of a boost before making WR, rather than a huge boost from one 50/50 outcome.

AKA23 is only one site, shutting his links will achieve nothing, he can still discuss the bonus, how to play it, and players can link through from other sites, or even just Google for the site.
The wizard of odds website discusses the mathematics behind most casino games, and variations with different softwares. He only promotes BoDog, but has bonus beating strategies comlete with degree level algebra.

Paying affiliates for players based on CPA rather than revenue share gives a huge incentive to run an advantage play site. The site gets traffic because of the quality of information, and even though players win, the site still makes money.

Even if all casinos banned CPA, advantage sites could run on a subscription model, with players paying to get hold of information on advantage play. There are a small number of fruit machine sites here in the UK based on this model, and although some are just scams, others contain useful information about fruitie exploits that most people never hear about till it is too late.

The only real way out is for casinos to think up of a way to attract players without making their SUB a steal for the clever mathematicians among us.

While Josh is drawing criticism for starting this thread, he is the first casino operator to publically say what I bet they are all thinking behind the boadroom doors. He has confirmed what most players have suspected, that much of this talk of "groups of fraudsters" is nothing more than traffic generated from these kinds of affiliate or advantage play site, hence we have unbelievable tales of groups of conspiritors collaborating over whole continents presented as though they actually met up together and planned the whole operation, rather than just seeing it discussed on some website, and simply joining the party.

In the case of Prime, its the £100 SUB and then nothing, where is the player retention? It is no surprise that most traffic is from bonus seekers and advantage players, who take the SUB and never look in again. Most other casinos run various promotions to entice players to come back and play again, and the best ensure the promotions are varied, so no advantage player can work them by rote for too long without having to do the maths all over again.

[XXLClubCasino]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

You should be glad you are not near the top of the "best bonuses" list.

I said this in a sarcastic way! But I give you absolutely right on your statement that no casinos loves the one shot never see again bonus lovers. When we first started a year ago we were very generous in the way we setup our bonuses and with the list aloud for wagering. The result was of course a disastrous net income as you can imagine.

It would not come to my mind to complain to any affiliates our not to pay the lucky mathematicians players. We set the bonuses, we set the T&C, we are the only responsible for what happened. Anyway we learned from OUR mistakes and made the appropriate changes in our bonus setup. We still are hit by "bonus lovers" but far less than before.

[BBKPoker]

Originally Posted by XXLClubCasino

I guess yes, betsize increase with VIP levels. This setup was of course defined to prevent the all-In first bet of bonus lovers

Also minusule is a question of definition in our case almost no players play on the max limit per game i.e 250 per spin or 25 per BJ hands, exept of course the bonus lovers.

That's fine for you to make that decision obviously, but it's probably not that good of a business decision. If you don't want to spread limits of 1-300 per hand, players can choose to play on virtually any other Microgaming (max bet limits of $200) Playtech (adjustable, but generally max bet limits of $300) or RTG site (adjustable, but generally max bet limits of $250).

I'd guess something like 98% of the industry offers at least $100 bets or larger. And, you'll probably never find out what it's like to have a whale slamming maximum bets for 3 hours with poor strategy, because there is zero chance you are going to keep one with those starting limits. I for one would just immediately withdraw and go elsewhere.